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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



dupersaurus posted:

Foil. And, yeah, I know what needs to be done; I'm climbing out of that gap between knowing and executing, but I've been making good strides on it. I tend to finish marching attacks a tempo or two later than I should (which causes all sorts of fun problems), and getting my brain to accept that I'm long enough to hit from out there has been an exercise. Sure makes life easier, though.
Hey, the reason I'm saying that is because I'm all too familiar with getting it wrong myself... Landing flat on someone's quarte because my distance was hosed-up is my speciality.

Moridin920, as far as sport fencing clubs go I'd suggest just searching the net, send an email ahead of time to ask where they are on the social-competitive spectrum (this might also give you an idea of whether they're nice people, too), and just turn up to a session or two.

The only real advice I can give, regardless of whether you go sport or martial art, is to relax and ease yourself into it. I bought a sabre a while ago off a guy who gave up because he went too hard back into it having had a 10-year hiatus and strained his knee as a result.

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Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007


What are the most common HEMA injuries anyway, elbow hyper extension?

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Rabhadh posted:

What are the most common HEMA injuries anyway, elbow hyper extension?
Probably that for longsword, and strained knee for rapier. The weird postures might also aggravate existing back and shoulder problems, such as the ones you get from posting a lot. Doing smallsword and rapier and not working out game me a nasty pain in my left shoulder last winter, and it didn't go away until I started doing shoulder mobility exercises and lifting.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I knew a guy that could only coach since he screwed up his knee when fencing young, but that was for his national team so probably an edge case. I've had a few injuries since I picked up fencing, but all from other sports. If you are worried about your knee, at the very least pick a club with a good sprung floor, not straight concrete. And learn to lunge properly (knee never goes further than the ankle)

Crazy Achmed posted:

Hey, the reason I'm saying that is because I'm all too familiar with getting it wrong myself... Landing flat on someone's quarte because my distance was hosed-up is my speciality.

Oddly enough I don't have much of a going flat problem, just the bounce. I'm starting to get the footwork and the distance right, though, and it's really throwing people off.

Rodrigo Diaz
Apr 16, 2007

Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

Rabhadh posted:

What are the most common HEMA injuries anyway, elbow hyper extension?

Sexual organ strain (from all the sex you're having) (for being good at swords)

DandyLion
Jun 24, 2010
disrespectul Deciever


Rabhadh posted:

What are the most common HEMA injuries anyway, elbow hyper extension?

Depending on how much gear your wearing, I'd say finger/hand injuries.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





Rabhadh posted:

What are the most common HEMA injuries anyway, elbow hyper extension?

I would say tennis elbow, shoulder problems, and finger breaks are the most common (at least in my school). Tennis elbow and the shoulder problems can be negated with good form though, and broken fingers can be negated with proper hand protection. Right now most of the injuries we're seeing come from sparring unarmored with padded swords, and that's mostly finger fractures.

Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

by Ralp


long term is knees, especially if you're doing rapier

in sparring, hands easily is the most commonly injured

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME


every reenactor i know who's done it more than, like, five years has knee pain and ankle pain

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





See, I've always heard that with knees any damage is easily avoidable if you're careful not to hyper extend. People have told me that if anything fencing (in general) is actually good for the knees.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Verisimilidude posted:

See, I've always heard that with knees any damage is easily avoidable if you're careful not to hyper extend. People have told me that if anything fencing (in general) is actually good for the knees.

This has kind of been my experience with sport in general, even if I haven't done any fencing yet.

Some people just have bad form and they don't care because it doesn't hurt until years later.

curious lump
Sep 13, 2014

by zen death robot


Can anyone recommend a good fencing school near Renton or Seattle? Not really interested in learning, per se, but free sparring and the like.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Verisimilidude posted:

See, I've always heard that with knees any damage is easily avoidable if you're careful not to hyper extend. People have told me that if anything fencing (in general) is actually good for the knees.
Relax and go slow is the biggest thing I always emphasise to anyone learning, but there's always one gung-ho rear end in a top hat who refuses to do anything other than concentrate solely on speed, despite the fact that their form is awful to the point where they're nearly falling over every other lunge. These guys also tend to be the ones turning up in skinny jeans.
In fact, one year's version of That Guy also insisted on fencing barefoot. (I think we ended up barring him from the piste without proper footwear and he disappeared a short while after)

Kim Jong ill
Jul 28, 2010

NORTH KOREA IS ONLY KOREA.

curious lump posted:

Can anyone recommend a good fencing school near Renton or Seattle? Not really interested in learning, per se, but free sparring and the like.

Anywhere good is not going to let you gently caress around hitting people if you're not willing to learn and drill.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

curious lump posted:

Can anyone recommend a good fencing school near Renton or Seattle? Not really interested in learning, per se, but free sparring and the like.

What weapon? I'm not on the West Coast, but do know people out that way.

Kim Jong ill posted:

Anywhere good is not going to let you gently caress around hitting people if you're not willing to learn and drill.

This is a fair point. You do have a background in fencing, yes? Within the past 6 months? I'm not really comfortable pointing you to a friend's club if you're a dumbass.

Verisimilidude posted:

See, I've always heard that with knees any damage is easily avoidable if you're careful not to hyper extend. People have told me that if anything fencing (in general) is actually good for the knees.

Maybe, but this is still a sport, being able to push yourself beyond "safe" is a part of the game. Sometimes it's that extra 5% that scores that touch. I've heard of foil coaches that expect your back-foot to slide at least a foot during a lunge, or else, you're simply not lunging, period.

Of course, I'm talking in regards to the truly competitive side. If you're just starting out, you need to learn your safe limits before you can push them.

BirdOfPlay fucked around with this message at 05:58 on May 20, 2015

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





We don't do a ton of lunging in German longsword since we're more of a cutting weapon and we're less profiled, but I see your point. Whenever I watch olympic fencing I'm always surprised just how explosive that initial push is with the back foot, and how far forward the knee is over the toes of the leading foot.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

My club just started hosting a longsword class, and it's mostly attended by saber fencers. In the first class I heard the instructor say that they all have very good lunges, but should take it down a few notches.

BirdOfPlay posted:

Maybe, but this is still a sport, being able to push yourself beyond "safe" is a part of the game. Sometimes it's that extra 5% that scores that touch. I've heard of foil coaches that expect your back-foot to slide at least a foot during a lunge, or else, you're simply not lunging, period.

Sliding the back foot isn't terrible, and once you get to a certain level of power it pretty much happens on its own, especially combined with the momentum of a bout. Just have to make sure not to roll your ankle the wrong way on the recovery. But you wouldn't want to be doing that for every lunge since your opponent will just start adjusting to that length, and now you can't get to them without more preparatory footwork.

The real danger is lunging with your knee ahead of your ankle. From what I've been told, that's a great way to screw your knee up, and I don't know if it really even gets you all that much extra. So don't do that.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



dupersaurus posted:

The real danger is lunging with your knee ahead of your ankle. From what I've been told, that's a great way to screw your knee up, and I don't know if it really even gets you all that much extra. So don't do that.
The way my fencing coach explained it last week, the important detail is the way your center of mass is moving. If you step too short, you basically end up stopping your forward momentum with the wrong muscles, which puts an immense strain on your knee. If, however, you take a long-rear end step well ahead of your center of mass, it turns into a squat-like strain which knees are built to handle, and you can pull off ridiculous poo poo like this no problem:


So keep your heels well ahead of your rear end at all times, and you should do fine.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

That's why you lunge by kicking your front heel forward then landing on it. That initial impact will absorb a lot of the force (which is why the Nike Ballestras are padded to hell there) before you even have to engage your knee.

El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003

Fuss and misery


Listen to your body plenty, fencing is pretty punishing in terms of sports injuries. It's so asymmetric that it's easy to overuse a limb and you can't really switch. Knees, ankles, wrist and forearm, shoulder, they're all vulnerable. You can keep things balanced by going to the gym, but nobody's perfect and overdoing it will happen. I wrecked my shoulder last spring and needed 6 weeks of not fencing to let it heal.

It's so much fun, you don't want to stop! So what if my ankle is killing me, just five more minutes...

curious lump
Sep 13, 2014

by zen death robot


BirdOfPlay posted:

What weapon? I'm not on the West Coast, but do know people out that way.


This is a fair point. You do have a background in fencing, yes? Within the past 6 months? I'm not really comfortable pointing you to a friend's club if you're a dumbass.

I did olympic foil for four years and I have done historical rapier for three after that, and continue to do so, and drill and train harder than any school below a national competitive level would. That said, foil or epee sparing would be ideal.

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


Conditioning outside of fencing like weight lifting and/or running helps prevent injuries, too. Fencing can be hell on your knees if you're fat and your muscles can't take the strain off your joints.

Neon Belly
Feb 12, 2008

I need something stronger.


curious lump posted:

Can anyone recommend a good fencing school near Renton or Seattle? Not really interested in learning, per se, but free sparring and the like.

Salle Auriol has a pretty large space and does open fencing.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



The World Kendo Championships are taking place in Tokyo over the next 4 days and can be seen here:
Ch1 (court 1)- https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f
Ch2 (court 2)- https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f-ch2
Ch3 (court 3)- https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f-ch3
Ch4 (court 4) https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f-ch4

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





This past weekend was FNY, my school's tournament. My pool was crazy tough and I didn't advance, but it was fun regardless. Here's the only video (that I know of) of me fighting at that event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x77AE_7GNi0 (I'm the red fighter wearing red socks)

My favorite part is seeing how much I have advanced since I first went to that tournament one year ago, where I got poo poo-stomped in the beginner's tournament. Now I'm getting poo poo-stomped in Open Steel by actual good fencers!

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jun 2, 2015

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



Verisimilidude posted:

This past weekend was FNY, my school's tournament. My pool was crazy tough and I didn't advance, but it was fun regardless. Here's the only video (that I know of) of me fighting at that event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x77AE_7GNi0 (I'm the red fighter wearing red socks)

My favorite part is seeing how much I have advanced since I first went to that tournament one year ago, where I got poo poo-stomped in the beginner's tournament. Now I'm getting poo poo-stomped in Open Steel by actual good fencers!

I've always wondered, what's the deal with the referee carrying that staff? Is that just so he has something to block with in case a sword gets too close?

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



For signaling, and to separate the fencers without having to dive all the way in, I think. I'm pretty sure you can see it in old fencing competition illustrations, but I don't have any handy right now.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





Siivola posted:

For signaling, and to separate the fencers without having to dive all the way in, I think. I'm pretty sure you can see it in old fencing competition illustrations, but I don't have any handy right now.

Basically this, though I think there's a reference somewhere to the ref being able to kick someone's rear end with it if need be.

There was a lot of unchecked aggression this year though. A lot of clean fencing, but a lot of fights needed to be broken up and that staff definitely helps.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007



Supposedly in early modern Spanish fencing schools, the staff was a montante. I talked to one judge who was pretty disappointed he couldn't do this.

I got stomped in the beginner's tournament, looking forward to being pummeled with steel next year.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Holy poo poo, I have a lot to learn. I just had my second fencing mass with hema. I dont know why no spinning? And I am alwAys too close. I am used to hand/foot range... Is it frowned upon to trip or push someone?

Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007


I very quickly got used to the range, but we're doing sword and buckler so I'm always trying to punch a fucker with the buckler. I was told the grappling is cool if it's your only option

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





thewireguy posted:

Holy poo poo, I have a lot to learn. I just had my second fencing mass with hema. I dont know why no spinning? And I am alwAys too close. I am used to hand/foot range... Is it frowned upon to trip or push someone?

You can definitely do that stuff, but I would suggest staying away from it until you have a grasp for the basics. An experienced fencer will know how to keep that distance and punish you for getting too close if you don't know what you're doing.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


I am definitely not trying anything, but I want to bad. My last martial art was capoeira and I want to twirl around and do stupid movie ninja poo poo, but I know it won't work. At least I have a little footwork under my belt. I have also done judo in college, and any time there is a bind, I want to throw them. Two guys compete nationally, but I think they are going to have to beat that out of me.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Rabhadh posted:

I very quickly got used to the range, but we're doing sword and buckler so I'm always trying to punch a fucker with the buckler. I was told the grappling is cool if it's your only option

Yeah, I heard it was a last resort, but since everyone is better with swords, I wanna rassle. Third class tomorrow, I was limping today, it has been 5 years since I worked out. I will take it easy and stay humble.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


And I keep looking at their feet. They are such an attractive target. I think I can get it without being hit, but am still learning forms. Too many king fu movies I guess.

Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007


Obviously I'm also new at this but I found if you concentrate on clearing or binding their sword in the first exchange you can make time for yourself to get in close. This is based on a grand total of 2 sparring sessions so please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Oh hell no, twirling around is generally super bad for two reasons: firstly, you'll get stabbed while your back is turned, and secondly, you might get stabbed in the back of the head or neck. The second of these is extra super bad unless you're wearing a full helmet, obviously.

What weapon are you learning, and where do your weapons/hands end up after you get the bind? Sure, you can close distance and try to grapple, but as the point of a bind is to hold their blade safely away from your target, it's probably going to be quicker and more effective to just riposte.

Anyway, in other news I just noticed that Uhlmann have come out with a new barrel/tip design that does away with those horrible little grub screws. Holy poo poo. The design looks very simple: the barrel unscrews into two bits, the endmost one holding the tip captive and letting it slide back and forth. You seat a standard spring inside the back half of the barrel, screw the tip-holding bit in so that the spring contacts the interior end of the tip and lets it spring back out, and you're done. These have been way, way too long coming and I want some.

Verisimilidude posted:

This past weekend was FNY, my school's tournament. My pool was crazy tough and I didn't advance, but it was fun regardless. Here's the only video (that I know of) of me fighting at that event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x77AE_7GNi0 (I'm the red fighter wearing red socks)

My favorite part is seeing how much I have advanced since I first went to that tournament one year ago, where I got poo poo-stomped in the beginner's tournament. Now I'm getting poo poo-stomped in Open Steel by actual good fencers!
Yeah, it's hard to see everything from that POV but it looks like you put up a good fight. How do the judges' hand signals work (with the little red and blue sticks)?
Also, what the gently caress, youtube?

(No, i'm not logged in with google/youtube/etc.)

Going to see if there are any recordings of the kendo that ImplicitAssembler posted. Hopefully I can follow the action enough...

Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jun 9, 2015

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


I know it won't work, I tried doing capoeira stuff with a boxer and he was waiting for me every time. I am a rookie and have to break my bad habits.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Oh and longsword. Daggers on Friday.

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Ah, bad habits, I know all about those I'm trying to break myself from being a one-trick pony on the riposte (reflexively lunge, which doesn't work at all if my opponent knows to back out of range); even though I know what I'm doing wrong, what I want to do, and even in a practise/drill situation, it's so goddamn hard to break the habit.

Kendoworld seems to have a lot of the tournament up here: https://www.youtube.com/user/KendoWorld/videos
Looks pretty awesome, but I don't know what the rules are that govern the periods of time where the competitors are just kinda nudging each other with their weapons. I figure it must be kind of like in boxing where you end up with them just kinda leaning on each other sometimes (I know gently caress all about boxing, clearly), and either someone needs to do something or the ref breaks them up?
Also, it sounds like there's a second bout going on within earshot of the first - surely the screaming coming from one would be horribly offputting for the other match?

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