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Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007


I think it's when your opponent is holding an imaginary sword

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dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

ScratchAndSniff posted:

This could describe a ton of different things. Maybe try describing the attack in more detail, along with weapon you are using.

We call it hiding the blade around my parts, hold the blade out of the way so your opponent can't easily parry, but keep the distance so you have time to finish. Standard foil stuff.

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


dupersaurus posted:

We call it hiding the blade around my parts, hold the blade out of the way so your opponent can't easily parry, but keep the distance so you have time to finish. Standard foil stuff.

Absence of blade can mean any time the blades aren't engaged... So like, most of the bout. Different areas will apply terminology differently, so advice for dealing with whatever Crazy Achmed is referring to will depend on the situation/weapon.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Crazy Achmed posted:

So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those.

I find the blade, and then finish with an attack. Granted, I do sabre, so "finding the blade" is an appropriate reaction to "opponent is making the blade hard to find." Other solutions include feinting counters, playing with distance, and even going point in line to swap priority.

How much do you know about tempo?

ScratchAndSniff posted:

Absence of blade can mean any time the blades aren't engaged... So like, most of the bout. Different areas will apply terminology differently, so advice for dealing with whatever Crazy Achmed is referring to will depend on the situation/weapon.

I think, given their experience level, it's a safe bet that Achmed is just describing bog-standard marching attacks in foil.

Ravenfood posted:

Attacks? Retreat. An absence-of-blade general fencer? Control the distance and play footwork games with several feinted attacks until they're slightly off their guard, then fleche.

Does any of this involve bouncing? I have it on good authority bouncing is bad.

BirdOfPlay fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Aug 19, 2015

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


Ohhhh. Sorry for being pedantic. In that case, I second Dupersaurus' advice. Like anything else, distance is key.

Alternatively, switch to epee, hit them in the foot, and bounce your way to victory. Never. Stop. Bouncing.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


BirdOfPlay posted:

Does any of this involve bouncing? I have it on good authority bouncing is bad.
Considering what I described could be summed up as "fence epee", uh...not sure what good authority told you that. Bouncing just to bounce is bad, though.

And toe touches are really iffy for me against absence fencers because they're often posting and are all-in on the counter. You're really likely to get tagged on the way in, IMO. And I love toe touches.

E: and yeah, I was describing epee advice, sorry if I wasn't clear.

E2: you could also bait the counter and take the blade, probably into a fleche.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 19, 2015

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


I keep doing a one handed swipe sometimes. I know two hands are stronger parry but why not? As long as you get the hit?

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Guy Windsor's giving out free ebooks of his Swordman's Companion for the next 24 hours.

It's kind of super outdated. (He's been kind enough to footnote most bits where he does things differently nowadays, tho.)

inscrutable horse
May 19, 2010

Parsing sage, rotating time





Siivola posted:

Guy Windsor's [...] been kind enough to footnote most bits where he does things differently nowadays, tho.)

People who use endnotes deserve to be thoroughly beaten with cudgels.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





thewireguy posted:

I keep doing a one handed swipe sometimes. I know two hands are stronger parry but why not? As long as you get the hit?

The general rule around here is "if you can cut tatami with one hand, then you can cut with one hand". The problem is defending yourself after, and if you fail an attack with one hand you're much more likely to end up in a bad position.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


From my very brief longsword ages ago, I used to do a 16 (?) cut drill that included a one-handed leaping attack where you basically let the sword slide out and grab it again near the pommel before the moment of impact. IIRC, it was called "springen" but a quick look through Google isn't turning up where that came from. It's been a while, and there weren't that many resources.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





Ravenfood posted:

From my very brief longsword ages ago, I used to do a 16 (?) cut drill that included a one-handed leaping attack where you basically let the sword slide out and grab it again near the pommel before the moment of impact. IIRC, it was called "springen" but a quick look through Google isn't turning up where that came from. It's been a while, and there weren't that many resources.

That sounds like something you should never do ever. As far as I know, there are no textbook examples by any of the historical masters that calls for a jumping cut, let alone a one-handed leaping cut that you loosen your grip to complete. Why not just cut with your off hand? It's already holding the bottom half of the grip!

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




That sounds like a great way to disarm yourself if your opponent is in any way faster than you.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK


Cybernetic Crumb

Verisimilidude posted:

That sounds like something you should never do ever. As far as I know, there are no textbook examples by any of the historical masters that calls for a jumping cut, let alone a one-handed leaping cut that you loosen your grip to complete. Why not just cut with your off hand? It's already holding the bottom half of the grip!
I learned that attack too, in both variants (offhand and leading hand) - although I dont know the source where its coming from (could ask though). Whether you use the offhand or the leading hand depends on the direction you are cutting (try it out, choosing the one or the other comes natural, at least for me).

That attack however only makes sense if the other person is out of reach, relaxes and opens himself up because of that, or makes a serious error like swinging his sword behind his back (so basically never in a duel situation).

Sliding out to the pommel and moving in quickly gives you a LOT of sudden reach. But if the other person is not completely surprised/out of position, you will pay for trying that poo poo.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 23, 2015

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Oh, sorry, hadn't checked the thread in a couple of days. Yeah, I was just talking about marchy stuff in foil (and to a lesser extent epee), usually flicky stuff or those weirdos who like to prepare by advancing with their tip way down. Unless I know what to expect from my opponent it's pretty intimidating to just counter or attack into the preparation... I know that carefully controlling my distance to draw the attack, then parry/riposte is the textbook approach, but I'm interested to see if anyone has any specific things they like to do.

Probably because I'm worse at epee and sabre I actually feel a bit more confident to just try something off-the-wall... counter thrust to the knee/foot and duck/counter-cut to the wrist are so satisfying when they go to plan.

My experience with broken time / counter time is more or less limited to doing odd footwork (usually half steps and/or accelerating lunges) to try and use someone's rhythm against them, or deliberately countering after getting parried. I'm usually not quick enough for the bladework, but sometimes I get the footwork OK... as an aside, it sometimes works really well (but only once!) against people who are in the habit of taking two steps forward at the start of a bout and only then actually beginning to fence.

Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Aug 23, 2015

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

Oh, sorry, hadn't checked the thread in a couple of days. Yeah, I was just talking about marchy stuff in foil (and to a lesser extent epee), usually flicky stuff or those weirdos who like to prepare by advancing with their tip way down. Unless I know what to expect from my opponent it's pretty intimidating to just counter or attack into the preparation... I know that carefully controlling my distance to draw the attack, then parry/riposte is the textbook approach, but I'm interested to see if anyone has any specific things they like to do.

Probably because I'm worse at epee and sabre I actually feel a bit more confident to just try something off-the-wall... counter thrust to the knee/foot and duck/counter-cut to the wrist are so satisfying when they go to plan.

My experience with broken time / counter time is more or less limited to doing odd footwork (usually half steps and/or accelerating lunges) to try and use someone's rhythm against them, or deliberately countering after getting parried. I'm usually not quick enough for the bladework, but sometimes I get the footwork OK... as an aside, it sometimes works really well (but only once!) against people who are in the habit of taking two steps forward at the start of a bout and only then actually beginning to fence.

Any sort of counter or AiP is not going to work if the attacker has any of: keeping good distance, keeping good speed, or killer point control. If it's foil, crushing counter attacks can work good if you get the timing right and their blade is too hidden or they're coming in too strong. My coach also advocates pulling out of distance entirely and let them catch back up (hopefully too quickly). But you can't just retreat, you also have to throw some flak out there (like searching parries) too keep them on their toes; even if you can't reach the parry, it forces them to have to deal with your blade, and helps with the whole "it looks like a good time but really isn't" thing.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK


Cybernetic Crumb

Nektu posted:

I learned that attack too, in both variants (offhand and leading hand) - although I dont know the source where its coming from (could ask though). Whether you use the offhand or the leading hand depends on the direction you are cutting (try it out, choosing the one or the other comes natural, at least for me).

That attack however only makes sense if the other person is out of reach, relaxes and opens himself up because of that, or makes a serious error like swinging his sword behind his back (so basically never in a duel situation).

Sliding out to the pommel and moving in quickly gives you a LOT of sudden reach. But if the other person is not completely surprised/out of position, you will pay for trying that poo poo.
Following up on the useability of that attack:

Someone tested light, off-hand cuts against pig feet that were bare or covered in light armor (leather/gambeson).

Result spoiler:


http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9247&view=next

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


We did a new cool drill with those kickboxing arm pads and I found it really helpful. I had to sidestep to get a good hit instead of standing face to face. It really brought home those damned footwork drills that have had me sore for two months.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





thewireguy posted:

We did a new cool drill with those kickboxing arm pads and I found it really helpful. I had to sidestep to get a good hit instead of standing face to face. It really brought home those damned footwork drills that have had me sore for two months.

Here's a good drill for that: take a padded sword and have person A perform an oberhau (keep it steep and slow at first and then change it up as you get better). Person B (who is in distance of person A's strike) has to then step forward and toward person A's side such that person A has to turn their head to keep person B in their view. Person B can use their arm to simulate blocking or parrying, but should focus on footwork to complete the action without getting hit. This is a battodo drill but it applies to longsword as well.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



This is a very good drill and we do it too, but, y'know, you could just use a stick.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





We might have to start using sticks pretty soon. We opened our school up to some ACL guys and they're tearing our padded swords apart. They literally just bash the poo poo out of each other with them as hard as they can. One of their drills is having someone do suicides while the team captain chases them with a padded sword and beats them every chance they get.

Edit: for reference, this is what we use http://www.nihonzashi.com/gekken_equipment.aspx

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



Since I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, Matt Easton has been putting up a few videos of a HEMA-focused tournament called Fight Camp recently. Even for me as a complete layman they're pretty entertaining to watch, especially the sabre one. Here they are:

Military sabre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvhxUmAE2eY (16:40 is especially interesting, it features a guy who appears to come from a completely different school of sabre fencing)
Backsword: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIWpgxKwmc
Rapier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEKHi_SBGJU

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



Perestroika posted:

Since I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, Matt Easton has been putting up a few videos of a HEMA-focused tournament called Fight Camp recently. Even for me as a complete layman they're pretty entertaining to watch, especially the sabre one. Here they are:

Military sabre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvhxUmAE2eY (16:40 is especially interesting, it features a guy who appears to come from a completely different school of sabre fencing)
Backsword: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIWpgxKwmc
Rapier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEKHi_SBGJU

Yeah, some of the sabre stuff was pretty good to watch. Certainly the most watchable of the 3 videos.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Just met an older lady who did kendo. I am gonna hack some bamboo off and get schooled. Wish me luck!

My people are putting on some performance at Dragon con.
If anyone of yall is in town, you can crash on my sofa.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





Put a drill bit through my thumb at work today, so I won't be fencing longsword for a while.

Fencing sidesword, however...

Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007


I just can't get interested in longsword, I'm such a hema hipster

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


What is the most hipster weapon?

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME


ScratchAndSniff posted:

What is the most hipster weapon?
probably what i do, tbh

10 Beers
May 21, 2005

Shit! I didn't bring a knife.



HEY GAL posted:

probably what i do, tbh

Were you into it before it was cool?

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME


it was never cool

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If a guy with a handlebar mustache comes to the club with a fixie, I'm going to assume he fences epee.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

dupersaurus posted:

If a guy with a handlebar mustache comes to the club with a fixie, I'm going to assume he fences epee.

I think I saw that guy at Milwaukee.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Epee? Everyone fences epee, real hipsters probably fence some Himalayan weapon you've never heard of before. Made of fair trade organic steel, no doubt.

There's a new guy at my club who is very keen but has a bizarre habit of jumping nearly a metre straight up in the air (no extension, I think it's an attempt at ballestra gone badly wrong) before attacking sometimes. Any tips on how to get him to calm the gently caress down? He's otherwise decent, just panics and spazzes out a lot.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Hit him in the air a lot until he figures out that that's not helping him. Or just retreat out of distance constantly with tells like that.

powertoiletduck
Feb 19, 2004

dance dance dance

International season and last few Olympic qualifiers kicking off shortly. I'm heading to Berne and Doha for epee before Christmas, who knows for the second round of competitions.

HappyKitty
Jul 11, 2005



So this might be relevant to you glasses-wearing HEMA dorks. Absolute Force sells a mask with a protective cover - http://www.afinternationalsporting.com/product_info.php/products_id/145/cPath/8?osCsid=u1rr37olckec8vjvqk921tb2c1 - which comes already riveted on.



And due to the placement of the rivets and the way the inner lining is constructed, you can do this:



You can slip the arms of a (preferably cheap) pair of glasses into the little affordances made by the gap between rivets, which is quite conveniently located so as not to affect the ear vents:




Which also means that the glasses will be snug at perfect glasses height.



Best part is that you can take the mask on and off repeatedly without dislodging the glasses, so they should be in the perfect position when you put the mask back on. No more fumbling around with glasses inside your mask, or choosing to fight semi-blindly - just plug in a spare pair, and you're good to go!

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



powertoiletduck posted:

International season and last few Olympic qualifiers kicking off shortly. I'm heading to Berne and Doha for epee before Christmas, who knows for the second round of competitions.

Awesome! Do you get expenses paid for that stuff or are you there in your own steam?

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


They let me spar yesterday and it was fun! 3 months and I guess I am trustworthy enough. After the 2 handed broadsword we used A one handed one that felt like 1/4 inch plastic wrapped in leather. I stayed after and watched the big boys play. So fun. I have bruises. Keep it up goons.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





thewireguy posted:

They let me spar yesterday and it was fun! 3 months and I guess I am trustworthy enough. After the 2 handed broadsword we used A one handed one that felt like 1/4 inch plastic wrapped in leather. I stayed after and watched the big boys play. So fun. I have bruises. Keep it up goons.

Who do you study with?

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



I fenced a friend from my old club for the first time in years recently. Slammed him in foil, but god drat did he punish me in epee. I don't know how, but I have about three painful bruises with basically no marks on the skin.

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