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EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale


Good Sir, Jarl Idgrod Ravencrone, Vampire Oracle has been killed N7!

Meinberg, Drevis Neloren, Town Hider has been endgamed and converted into a Werewolf!

Rarity, Sinding, Werewolf, Anonymous Narcotics, Skjor, Werewolf, and Meinberg, Drevis Neloren, Werewolf Ninja have won!

I'll probably do a longer post mortem analysis later, but for now I have a winter BBQ to go to.

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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!






Thanks for giving us this one, guys!

AXE COP
Apr 16, 2010

i always feel like

somebody's watching me


good game boys

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

I really liked my role. Thanks exakt!

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Big props to Exakt for making a really fun and exciting game and pushing through to keep it going despite life stuff happening.

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back


Wow gg guys! I really had a lot of fun with this. Rarity was the best werewolf buddy <3

And Exakt was the best mod buddy!

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Yeah, this was definitely an enjoyable game. And I won somehow!

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Meinberg posted:

Yeah, this was definitely an enjoyable game. And I won somehow!

I wasn't sure if you'd realised you'd win if you chose my side but I didn't wanna be too pushy by telling you.

Let's run off into the sunset, wolf buddy

e: Wolf Doc

Rarity fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 8, 2015

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







Oh farts

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







Good Sir did you just not get a night action in?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Epsilon Plus posted:

Good Sir did you just not get a night action in?

Meinberg would have hidden so the recruit wouldn't have worked

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Neat game, Exakt.

Also gently caress you town

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Opopanax posted:

Neat game, Exakt.

Also gently caress you town

No, gently caress you Opop.

Glockenapfel
Mar 9, 2013



Opopanax posted:

Neat game, Exakt.

Also gently caress you town

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Asiina posted:

No, gently caress you Opop.

Yeah my bad

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...


Well, that game went well for me I think!

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Opopanax posted:

Yeah my bad

Chic Trombone
Jul 25, 2010



I'm still really surprised that I was able to peace out an win despite being recruited.

Glockenapfel
Mar 9, 2013



Chic Trombone posted:

I'm still really surprised that I was able to peace out an win despite being recruited.

Yeah. I've never seen a game where recruiting didn't overwrite the old win condition.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Suck it vamps! Or, rather, don't.

also sorry Opop, this was my first cult game and I couldn't make any sense out of 2 scumteams + vig only getting 2 nightkills between them. Your death helped clarify who the scum were though!

Fun game, thanks for running it. I'm curious about how the boon mechanic was intended to work--having mod confirmations on alignment in a cult game seems like it would actually be a liability.

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



Thanks Exact, good game.

Opopanax posted:

Neat game, Exakt.

Also gently caress you town

Heh, I've said it before, but town actually killed 4 CLAIMED town PRs with no CC in the first 4 days. 1 killed by vig, 3 executed by town (all 3 hammered by town).

It was definitely interesting for a first game. Not sure if/when I'll try again.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







ShadowGlass posted:

Thanks Exact, good game.


Heh, I've said it before, but town actually killed 4 CLAIMED town PRs with no CC in the first 4 days. 1 killed by vig, 3 executed by town (all 3 hammered by town).

It was definitely interesting for a first game. Not sure if/when I'll try again.

It was really interesting playing with you! I think we just have Differing Mafia Opinions, but I really appreciated your insight.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale


Gabriel Pope posted:

Suck it vamps! Or, rather, don't.

also sorry Opop, this was my first cult game and I couldn't make any sense out of 2 scumteams + vig only getting 2 nightkills between them. Your death helped clarify who the scum were though!

Fun game, thanks for running it. I'm curious about how the boon mechanic was intended to work--having mod confirmations on alignment in a cult game seems like it would actually be a liability.

The modconfirmation as town was only because you were a miller. Different roles got different boons. For example, the Ecco cop would get a 1-shot single target cop, the doctor would get a passive 1-shot where they would kill anyone who tried to kill/convert their protection target, the vig would have gotten a 1-shot dayvig, VTs would become double voters for the day. I'm kind of bummed that it didn't come up more. Another thing that I had planned out was having some of the power roles change if they were recruited. For example, if one of the scumteams had grabbed Opop, rather than being a scumvig, he would turn into an Assassin, Meinberg would have become a Ninja, and you would have become a Godfather. Unfortunately, this didn't really happen either on account of town taking every possible opportunity to murder its power roles.

If I run a similar setup again, I'd definitely tweak some things. The 3P roles were a bit much, and I'd take them out. I'd also make the cop a real cop, and give the town more protective abilities, either limited-use doctors or backup doctors.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




If I'd survived to that point I totally would have thought it was a scum boon, which would have been hilarious

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Congratulations on moderating your first game Exakt! Double-congrats for making it as confusing a first moderation experience as possible.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale


Somberbrero posted:

Congratulations on moderating your first game Exakt! Double-congrats for making it as confusing a first moderation experience as possible.

Thanks for co-modding, dude! I learned a lot and I'm glad that people had fun, even if there were some issues with balance and whatever. The next game I run is going to be much more simple

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


EXAKT Science posted:

Thanks for co-modding, dude! I learned a lot and I'm glad that people had fun, even if there were some issues with balance and whatever. The next game I run is going to be much more simple

I don't think balance is a real fair complaint here. Both scum teams could have been hosed by day two. The game was night action dependent, but that just rewards a different kind of skill than we're used to. I will say that I think my recommendations to remove the third-parties probably would have helped make for a more consistent experience, but you ran the game you wanted to and I think it definitely worked out.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale


Somberbrero posted:

I don't think balance is a real fair complaint here. Both scum teams could have been hosed by day two. The game was night action dependent, but that just rewards a different kind of skill than we're used to. I will say that I think my recommendations to remove the third-parties probably would have helped make for a more consistent experience, but you ran the game you wanted to and I think it definitely worked out.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much of a shot town consistently had. If Good Sir or Rarity had been executed instead of Squid, town could have pulled out a victory.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Ultimately it was a fun game and while I'm not sold on cult mechanics I don't think it was unbalanced, nor do I think that the roles entirely overshadowed the basic mafia play. It was a good game

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale


Mod Doc

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




I did competing cults once, it's really more fun for the mod than anyone else, but I think this was a pretty good way of doing it. As good as cults get, anyways

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe


This really goes to show just how forgiving this setup is for town, there were multiple points of failure where we could have blown the game wide open if we were not out to systematically jettison as many power roles as possible.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


This setup was stupidly broken and I am honestly surprised Somber looked at it and gave it the go-ahead. You had a lot of interesting ideas, Exakt, but in the future, please reel it in.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

EccoRaven posted:

This setup was stupidly broken and I am honestly surprised Somber looked at it and gave it the go-ahead. You had a lot of interesting ideas, Exakt, but in the future, please reel it in.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I have in the past made broken setups too, this is not particularly new information for anyone.

You can't use the giant ironicat willy-nilly, you gotta use it when it's actually ironic.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

I think you telling someone else to reel it in is pretty growingironicat.gif worthy.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


EccoRaven posted:

This setup was stupidly broken and I am honestly surprised Somber looked at it and gave it the go-ahead. You had a lot of interesting ideas, Exakt, but in the future, please reel it in.

I made a lot of suggestions contrary to Exakt's design but that wasn't the game he wanted to run. All teams had an approximately equal chance of winning in the end and that's what matters. Yes, a lot of terrible things could have happened for town. A lot of terrible things could have happened for scum. ~variance~ Night actions are a valid means of player input.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Asiina posted:

I think you telling someone else to reel it in is pretty growingironicat.gif worthy.

There is something admirable about wanting to go big, especially on your first game, but the bigger you go the bigger you have a chance of failing. I didn't start out doing ridiculous games; I modded dozens, getting the feel for how mechanics work together, how games might play out, and what players will respond to. Most of the times I've gone big it was after extensively testing mechanics in minigames (and even then much of the time the setup winds up being less balanced than I'd have liked).

This game is Exakt's first, and all the various mechanics feel less like he was trying to make a balanced game and more like he was trying to make a "cool" game. Which is fine! Cool games are cool. But looking at it, any one of his individual ideas - the cults, the dunkers, etc. - could make for a very interesting game. But the setup, to me, just felt way too busy.

Somberbrero posted:

All teams had an approximately equal chance of winning in the end and that's what matters.
There are two different kinds of balance. The first is what you mention - the odds of one team winning over another - but the second is how much order there is to the game. If a game has too many power roles and too much "stuff" happening, the game becomes unbalanced because the mod has no idea how things are going to play out. You mention that things could have happened really badly for the town and the scum, but that's exactly part of the problem. If things go badly for the scum, it should be because the town was so unified and good at scumhunting (which includes power roles and night actions), and vice versa for towns going belly up. Too many roles just make things way too chaotic.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




What's the matter Ecco, sour grapes

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Again though I think Exakt has a lot of really great ideas and I am interested in seeing his future games. I don't want to come off like I'm unnecessarily trashing him. But, this particular game could have been scaled back a lot and been a lot more balanced, that's all.

It's also a little rude for Asiina to bring my own modding history into question.

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