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fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

EXAKT Science posted:

That's probably because I dislike pretty much everything she's posted :p

Sure, but it's not a persuasive way to case.

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VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

EXAKT Science posted:

That's probably because I dislike pretty much everything she's posted :p

Likewise!

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

So lot's of stuff here and apparently I need to budget my time between defense and casing, prepare for some posts.

Here's some quick responses to page 14:

EXAKT Science posted:

it seems off to me that Viva was casting shade on both Opop and WM when she could have probably gotten away with just casing Opop.
Elaborate on this thought please.


fiery_valkyrie posted:

I also feel like Exact was trying very hard to make people look bad towards the deadline,

The way Exact posts makes me think he is certain about Opop's alignment, especially when he is asking people about who they think is scum with Opop.
100% agree! I felt like I was going crazy that no one was calling him on this at the time!


EXAKT Science posted:

I feel even better about f_v now, because that feels like a real case to me. It's incorrect, but who gives a poo poo?
Well. If somewhere incorrectly casing someone I know to be town, I'd prolly give a small poo poo or two idk. :eyeroll:


Rarity posted:

The one game I've played with Viva (Civ 2) she was the best town player so I wanted to see her opinion on my case.
:3

King Burgundy posted:

Another interesting thing is that since everyone started this game Vanilla, scum night kills aren't based on hunting for power roles or anything. It will be based purely on taking people who are obstacles to their shaping of the narrative. Here on SA, people always ignore the NK motivation because of WIFOM, but that gives scum a free pass to kill whoever they want without having to think about it. Before he died Diqnol was suspecting Viva, Rarity and TheRam of being scum. Scum would want to keep him around if he was wrong, to help sell their cases, but would want him dead if he was right.
This is a fascinating post. First, people on SA totally don't ignore NK motivation in my experience. I certainly never do.

Secondly, I disagree strongly with your thought process and conclusions here.

For one thing, you're forgetting a major reason why people are NKed in every game- they look too town to lynch. Look at the response to Diqnol's passing in the thread if you need to know why he was killed. He even seemed to know he was the likely target for the simple reason that after opop flipped scum, he looked like he'd never be lynched.

Additionally, you seem to be forgetting the main gimmick of the game. Diqnol looked so town he was also a likely target for people to will to. I think this is really obviously the reason he was killed.

Saying it was because of who he suspected is silly since he had already said who he suspected and knew he'd be writing something about them to be posted on his death. 'Silencing' doesn't seem like it could be the motivation. I feel pretty strongly about this conclusion and think it's an important point to understand.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



VivaNova posted:

This is a fascinating post. First, people on SA totally don't ignore NK motivation in my experience. I certainly never do.

Secondly, I disagree strongly with your thought process and conclusions here.

For one thing, you're forgetting a major reason why people are NKed in every game- they look too town to lynch. Look at the response to Diqnol's passing in the thread if you need to know why he was killed. He even seemed to know he was the likely target for the simple reason that after opop flipped scum, he looked like he'd never be lynched.

Additionally, you seem to be forgetting the main gimmick of the game. Diqnol looked so town he was also a likely target for people to will to. I think this is really obviously the reason he was killed.

Saying it was because of who he suspected is silly since he had already said who he suspected and knew he'd be writing something about them to be posted on his death. 'Silencing' doesn't seem like it could be the motivation. I feel pretty strongly about this conclusion and think it's an important point to understand.

You and Rarity seem pretty convinced of that first point and that hasn't been my experience at all. I even tried to bring it up in my first game of mafia ever, battleship, and was poo poo'd and told that real mafia players don't examine the night kill motivations because it is too wifom, by windshipper I believe. So I feel like you and Rarity are posting from another planet when you say that. It does not happen in games I'm in. As far as I'm concerned you two could not be more wrong, or are lying. :shrug: In fact, I brought it up in THIS game and Rarity did the same thing. Tried to shift off the argument as WIFOM. Don't try to tell me it is ridiculous when it is happening in the same game we are in.

You are correct on some of the rest though. Absolutely, Diqnol looking too towney is ALSO a reason to kill him and one that would have been brought up in scum chat. But, that doesn't preclude the double dip. He was too towney AND was on the right track for the scum team. Let me put it this way. If I was on the scum team, and all of Diqnol's other reads were totally off base, I would have considered letting him live a bit longer for a couple reasons:

A)He talks. It's good for the game to let him live so the game stays quality instead of a lurky poo poo fest.
B)He's trusted. If his other reads are wrong, he will successfully lead other other people to bad cuddles.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

VivaNova posted:

Well. If SOMEONE was incorrectly casing someone I know to be town, I'd prolly give a small poo poo or two idk. :eyeroll:
typo.


Poison Mushroom posted:

You're getting all caught up in theorycrafting! Trying to puzzle out the mechanics of a game totally makes sense in a role-heavy one like a CYOR. But getting all into that in a vanilla game? Boo.
This was only a vanilla game D1, and possibly not even then. I'm a big fan of mechanics and have won games off it so I dislike when people get down on them. The issue with that post is that I believe KB came to the wrong conclusion.


TheRam posted:

I'm kind of intentionally ignoring this thread for a few more hours before I do a full read, but I really like your posting Murmur Twin.
I LOVE the chart, but I find it strange you would especially like that post, since rarity and max both said yesterday they didn't think anything of opop's initial posting, and exact told DHD that the scumslip was the weakest part of the opop case, so the posts she's pointing out line up with their stories from yesterday, not much interesting there.


Murmur Twin posted:

Obviously there was a level of joking around to this, but I think a town Rarity should have tried to get Opop to make a solid case. Instead she solicits a vote on WM, which he obliges her on before vanishing.
I noticed this, and it's one of my two issues with Rarity, the other being the opop vote for obvi reasons. I can't fault Rarity for her case on WM, but I can fault her for this. She shouldn't have been so convinced of a generic D1 case that she was willing to just accept a crappy vote from another suspicious character.

With regards to your other points, my eyes glazed over during the newbie scum tendencies chat, I need to go back and read it in full.


King Burgundy posted:

BTW, I just want to put this out there, since it doesn't affect anything, and it might lend us some insights later.

I was given a gift from the departed.

I am now an unconfirmed mason with TheRam.

I was assuming this would have come from Diqnol on his death. But I can't be sure of that, and I don't know if Opop would have been able to do something similar.
Were you given the option to choose your partner?

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Viva I specifically liked the post because of the effort, I didn't pay attention to the content. 15 more minutes of Vikings then I'll play this game.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



VivaNova posted:

Were you given the option to choose your partner?

No choice, the whole thing was assigned to me.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

King Burgundy posted:

BTW, I just want to put this out there, since it doesn't affect anything, and it might lend us some insights later.

I was given a gift from the departed.

I am now an unconfirmed mason with TheRam.

I was assuming this would have come from Diqnol on his death. But I can't be sure of that, and I don't know if Opop would have been able to do something similar.

Have you talked much in the mason doc together?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

King Burgundy posted:

You and Rarity seem pretty convinced of that first point and that hasn't been my experience at all. I even tried to bring it up in my first game of mafia ever, battleship, and was poo poo'd and told that real mafia players don't examine the night kill motivations because it is too wifom, by windshipper I believe. So I feel like you and Rarity are posting from another planet when you say that. It does not happen in games I'm in. As far as I'm concerned you two could not be more wrong, or are lying. :shrug: In fact, I brought it up in THIS game and Rarity did the same thing. Tried to shift off the argument as WIFOM. Don't try to tell me it is ridiculous when it is happening in the same game we are in.

You are correct on some of the rest though. Absolutely, Diqnol looking too towney is ALSO a reason to kill him and one that would have been brought up in scum chat. But, that doesn't preclude the double dip. He was too towney AND was on the right track for the scum team. Let me put it this way. If I was on the scum team, and all of Diqnol's other reads were totally off base, I would have considered letting him live a bit longer for a couple reasons:

A)He talks. It's good for the game to let him live so the game stays quality instead of a lurky poo poo fest.
B)He's trusted. If his other reads are wrong, he will successfully lead other other people to bad cuddles.

I think the reason most people dont use it as discussion is because it is way too WIFOM-y. You can't know what the motivations of the scum were and to base your play on the NK, rather than content in the game, is just going to lead you astray.

If you have a case on Viva/Rarity based on content then that is great, but most people will ignore cases based on NK selection.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



fiery_valkyrie posted:

Have you talked much in the mason doc together?

Bowmore didn't send me a link to a mason doc like I would have expected. We have chatted a fair amount today on steam.

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Yo so Burgundy and I have talked a bit. Obviously unconfirmed, I have only skimmed his interactions re: Opop and they didn't give me great confidence but I am holding out on judging him before I re-read the whole thread.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



fiery_valkyrie posted:

I think the reason most people dont use it as discussion is because it is way too WIFOM-y. You can't know what the motivations of the scum were and to base your play on the NK, rather than content in the game, is just going to lead you astray.

If you have a case on Viva/Rarity based on content then that is great, but most people will ignore cases based on NK selection.

I've already posted my reasons for voting Rarity. This other stuff was just a bonus reason that came to me.

What are your thoughts on Rarity and Vivanova?

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


fiery_valkyrie posted:

If you have a case on Viva/Rarity based on content then that is great, but most people will ignore cases based on NK selection.

Yes, WIFOM nightmare, only worthwhile usually in some specific role-based scenarios imo. I fully agreed with KB's point there, scum can WIFOM a NK very easily.

Okay so vikings over, I'm not going to megapost probably just going to re-read the entirety of D1 with the knowledge Opop was scum. Let's see what happens!

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



fiery_valkyrie posted:

I think the reason most people dont use it as discussion is because it is way too WIFOM-y. You can't know what the motivations of the scum were and to base your play on the NK, rather than content in the game, is just going to lead you astray.

Also, to be clear, this is another example of people saying you can't get anything useful out of NK discussion. Pay attention Viva/Rarity. If you were just taking umbrage with me saying "no one" definitively like that, fine. But it is pretty obvious to me that the majority ignore it and don't take it into account and it is being proven in this very thread, post by post.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

King Burgundy posted:

You and Rarity seem pretty convinced of that first point and that hasn't been my experience at all. I even tried to bring it up in my first game of mafia ever, battleship, and was poo poo'd and told that real mafia players don't examine the night kill motivations because it is too wifom, by windshipper I believe. So I feel like you and Rarity are posting from another planet when you say that. It does not happen in games I'm in. As far as I'm concerned you two could not be more wrong, or are lying. :shrug: In fact, I brought it up in THIS game and Rarity did the same thing. Tried to shift off the argument as WIFOM. Don't try to tell me it is ridiculous when it is happening in the same game we are in.
Not everyone here is homogenous, people have different philosophies and strategies. WIFOM seems to periodically be a hot topic of conversation in the discussion thread. I remember a wonderful unsolicited megapost from Ecco on the topic in a game we played last January :)
The reason it's sometimes poo pooed is because it often inevitably degrades into 'welp scum knew we'd be analyzing their actions, so they played accordingly'.

I think the key to making it more useful is to consider which option would be MORE beneficial for scum in the scenario.

King Burgundy posted:

You are correct on some of the rest though. Absolutely, Diqnol looking too towney is ALSO a reason to kill him and one that would have been brought up in scum chat. But, that doesn't preclude the double dip. He was too towney AND was on the right track for the scum team. Let me put it this way. If I was on the scum team, and all of Diqnol's other reads were totally off base, I would have considered letting him live a bit longer for a couple reasons:

A)He talks. It's good for the game to let him live so the game stays quality instead of a lurky poo poo fest.
B)He's trusted. If his other reads are wrong, he will successfully lead other other people to bad cuddles.
True, looking too town-y doesn't preclude the double dip, but my point was silencing him isn't needed as an explanation for the kill since there was ample other motivation.

As for point A, it's not scum's job to keep the game lively. It's not nice to say so, but I have noticed many scum would be more comfortable living in a lurky game, so yeah.

Point B is super interesting and goes back to what makes this game different. Diqnol already said who he'd be casing post-mortem and then proceeded to do so! This point resonates with me since Diqnol incorrectly cased me. My first thought after seeing Diqnol was killed was that it was to put suspicion on me! Now I see that's at best a "double dip", but that interpretation works as well as what you're suggesting.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

TheRam posted:

Viva I specifically liked the post because of the effort, I didn't pay attention to the content. 15 more minutes of Vikings then I'll play this game.
It was a nice diagram. It's great to know you are impressed with pretty pictures and not content.


oh god, WIFOM chat :)

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Ok, everything else I have to say is about Exact Science- MT's case on him, his case on me, very probably my case on him. You will need to wait until tomorrow evening for serious casing/effort, but if you have specific questions I can try to answer before then.

DuckHuntDog
May 13, 2004




Reading Opop, I don't see a lot of interactions that jump out at me. The only vote he put down was WM as that gained some traction.

I am not really feeling the arguments on Viva just because she has been putting in a lot of effort, and I really don't see scum trying that hard especially while defending Opop D1.

##vote Hal

He has been really inactive, but I read him as apathetic scum and possibly frustrated about Opop.

Hal Incandenza posted:

It is clear to me that Opop is the bad guy but I will withhold my vote until the Ram succeeds in this most important event of his life

Early on agrees pretty strongly that Opop is scum, but waits a while until it seems a bit inevitable before actually putting down a vote. Other than that, has mostly been jokey lurking.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



VivaNova posted:

Point B is super interesting and goes back to what makes this game different. Diqnol already said who he'd be casing post-mortem and then proceeded to do so! This point resonates with me since Diqnol incorrectly cased me. My first thought after seeing Diqnol was killed was that it was to put suspicion on me! Now I see that's at best a "double dip", but that interpretation works as well as what you're suggesting.

It doesn't work as well. Because if I hadn't brought it up, no one else would have. You wouldn't have, since it is about you. Everyone else who has responded has said they aren't a fan of discussing night kill motivations. If scum really wanted to "double dip" on your chosen reason, someone would have brought it up.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



DuckHuntDog posted:

I am not really feeling the arguments on Viva just because she has been putting in a lot of effort, and I really don't see scum trying that hard especially while defending Opop D1.

How do you feel about Rarity?

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Yeh I'm doing a catchup post. Confirming alignments in next post.

CapitalistPig
CPig good Opop vote p4, paranoid because it's CPig. If I was CPig I could see myself admitting Opop is dead and trying to salvage, tentatively town on this.
yooo what P5 Cpig comes off of Opop. Pretty okay reasoning, more sincere than I've seen CPig recently.. CPig has been scum like all the time recently, thinking null-tell leaning town, but it made me feel feelings.
Nah super town with his comment later saying he forgot something... (P5)

DuckHuntDog
Decent opop vote. Pretty sincere rebuttal to my actually good idea about killing Opop fri night P5.
DHD insists we vote opop after VNs big post and max's agreement - very pro-town point. (P12)

EXAKT Science
Hrmm Exact doesn't like the Opop push P5... I can kind of sympathise with this feeling as town, given I know exact goes on to like FOS me despite the fact I obviously was a large part of Opop being just doomed all day... But kinda ehhh callout on Hal so I'm like hrmmmm. Tho a second callout of Hal not long after calling Hal's intent to vote scummy seems pretty stupid a move to make as scum in a game where I think at this point Opop was very likely to be killed.
Calls out DHD for being worried about a "single misdunk" on P5, yet doesn't buy the scum slip of Opop's and doesn't feel comfortable killing him. This sounds a lot like wanting to imply you're more interested in something happening than you really are.
feels kinda town and sincere P6 hrm
awkward P8, says feels better about but doesn't switch to opop or anything. feels like scum exact could have realised hal is not going to get traction, still reluctant to commit to WM (likely to look scummy if opop flips scum) nor opop (very likely scum). Follows up by probing Diq on his suggestion I might be scum, I know KB does this too - but I think scum right here are looking for alternatives.
Exact P11 feels like scum or town I'm willing to remove.
Exact says he wants to vote opop on P12 super late but is waiting on me

fiery_valkyrie
P7 and still hasn't mentioned opop, plonks vote on WM and leaves P2. Pretty convincing "I'm not reading" job, though.
Hrmmm p9 brings up opop saying diq's logic doesn't explain his scum read on opop really because it's too stupid for opop to do... neutral-leaning town on the way FV handles it, I don't really know why I think that. ~~feel~~
FV calls out Hal for voting opop as "low effort" basically, again - this seems like the opposite of what a scum would do, why bother? Makes me think FV is mor elikely town.

Hal Incandenza
Don't really like Hal's intro post P3.
P5 Hal says he's clear that Opop is scum and is giving me time. Not a free pass but enough for me to not care about Hal as scum for a while. Really hope he doesn't lurk tho :(
Yesss hal, P8 says movement on WM looks like scum control. good focus.

King Burgundy
I'm super :tinfoil: since we're masons now.
Says that Opop seems natural aside from a single comment that is pretty damning. It feels pretty natural I guess (P6)
Good pro-opop kiill momentum just after. Feels pretty legit, though I have to be honest - KB seems smart to me and I think Opop was inevitable. I if I was Opop I would have told my friends to bus me hard by this point.
Follow up posts to this P6 make me very in the middle. Which sucks cus I want a confirmed mason bro :(
Not liking viva nova is good, but I'm paranoid I'm considering the scum doc recognising that Opop is going to die and Viva Nova is going to look bad. This is how much I respect a possible KB/Opop/Viva scumteam.
Don't really understand not being able to qualify why he doesn't like VN's bigpost. Coupled with my previous comments :tinfoil:
KB says he still intends to vote Opop P12, unless I blow his mind with casing... stood out but pretty neutral :( harddd mason

Max
I thought townie intro P2.
Also agrees about Opop almost immediately P3 - knowing Max voted me recently and not knowing if that was a joke yet, it is really loving weird Max thinks I might be scum given my posts and their forcefulness being posted before him.
ugh, max jumps on WM... I think WM is LHF over the top newbie reading on P7... don't like
I guess it's a stretch but Max goes pretty silence once he's come off of Opop, but his post P9 implies he's still there.
max makes a "I'm going to look dumb if he's scum but I think he's town" post re: opop. hate that he did this. so hard to get an objective read on this post and it stands out like a sore thumb
Max quotes VN's big post P12 and agrees WM looks worse than Opop. This looks bad for Max. Max has gone from early good gut read against opop's slip to inexplicably wanting to kill WM. Not justified imo as a town move.
Max doesn't get why DHD is confident about opop flipping scum, I kind of don't buy this as legit.

Murmur Twin
Jumps straight on Opop, this was a strong move as scum, that would require Murmur to really believe Opop was doomed to commit to. Makes me think Murmur is town.
Yeh MT is probs town (P8)

Poison Mushroom
Don't like self vote P2.
Pretty awkward sarcastic post about self claiming but I'm not sure it's scummy P4.
PM does this fake lumpen list thing, says D1 is a crapshoot and says they tried to get turbolynched... I don't think they did try to get turbo'd, feels pretty disingenuous to me. (P6)
Votes me P7 end, I just don't understand this far out of jokephase why.
Votes opop P8, this feels scummy to me. Says "as good as any" I feel like PM is really pretending that Opop is kinda bad because they feel for wahtever reason this would look less scummy. I do not trust this player.

Rarity
Ignores Opop's scum slip.
Looks pretty bad acknowledging it was kinda scummy P5.
Pushes WM for looking newbie scum on P7, over Opop... ugh, this is another bad thing.
interacts with Opop, feels like maybe scum-scum chat.
would rather catch newbie scum apparently than scum slip opop (P8). I don't like this
rarity acts thoughtful but is sooo disinterested in opop's repeated scum slips (he did two, looool, 2nd might have been a joke but probably wasn't)
rarity goes sooo hard talking about not opop (p9) whilst trying to generate content generally (p8/9 interacitons with diqnol) - looks bad
says something to the effect of "I think if he's scum it's not for the reasons you said" - this is a classic scum line. It allows you to disagree but to still have a sort of scum read. Continues to reiterate this P9.
pretty reluctant vote from rarity on opop p13, feels like an admission of defeat given previous stuff.

VivaNova
Viva bigpost P4 addressing a number of things, I'm not sure how scummy it is because the whole tone is pretty mafia-parent - the "need a better reason to vote (opop)" isn't glaringly scummy. Almost immediately followed by "I am not scumbros w/ Opop" is a really drat... hard thing to really know what to think about.
Calling CPig lazy for voting opop is kinda bad, since I really do think it was a legit scum slip. The question is really whether viva was willfully ignorant of how transparently probably-a-scumslip it was. :/
Viva called out my "confirmed town" read on Max on P4 again, feels like viva might be scum being forced to find distractions - if Viva is scum I respect her(?) here, hard spot to be in.
Comes in P10 and says that WM is probably town and that Rarity is causing him to be nervous - says some jank to MT about how MT is saying Opop made two scum slips - VN is being incredulous, Opop only needed to make one to be scum. The 2nd one could ahve been genuine or just an attempt to frame himself as a clown to avoid a lynch. It's really besides the point and I don't think it's something a town person would care about.
VN makes another big post P12, makes me think VN/FV is a weird combo because she calls the FV vote ~weird~, makes me think VN wants to say FV is town as a read as scum. Calls votes on Opop dumb, honestly over all I think this makes VN look scummy. I cba to mega post about why but it just does.

wall monitor
Feels like newbie soft bus P4.
Says "hard time telling where joke phase ends" P7, usually makes me think "scum or town power role"... there are no power roles in this game.
Kinda legit feeling response to being voted P7, doesn't feel like a scum response... maybe just huge newbie vibes
opop chooses to vote WM over himself, imo this is very strong evidence that WM is town.
Not sure why WM goes for FV but w/e

GENERAL NOTES

man I'm getting tired around p9/10...
DAY ONE DONE

also yeh I chose the wrong game for making my list post, sorry.


THIS POST GOES UP TO THE END OF D1 going to check my reads on it now in next post

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Alright, consolidating what I thought in my big post into reads.

TOWN
CPig (reallly I feel like ???? at all times but I do think he's town)
DHD
Hal (hard bus if scum imo)
MT
WM

NEUTRAL/???????
Exact (scum or kind of a sweetie tbh)
KB (smart scum or kind of a sweetie)
Poison (closer to scum than others)

SCUM PICKS (ordered most to least)
Rarity (not sure between rarity viva, but I think rarity pips it)
Viva
Max (very very awkward over all, shows intellect, has an pretty intellectual scum game imo)

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


TheRam posted:

Alright, consolidating what I thought in my big post into reads.

TOWN
CPig (reallly I feel like ???? at all times but I do think he's town)
DHD
Hal (hard bus if scum imo)
MT
WM

NEUTRAL/???????
Exact (scum or kind of a sweetie tbh)
KB (smart scum or kind of a sweetie)
Poison (closer to scum than others)

SCUM PICKS (ordered most to least)
Rarity (not sure between rarity viva, but I think rarity pips it)
Viva
Max (very very awkward over all, shows intellect, has an pretty intellectual scum game imo)

I missed FV somehow

TOWN
CPig (reallly I feel like ???? at all times but I do think he's town)
DHD
Hal (hard bus if scum imo)
MT
WM

NEUTRAL/???????
FV (closer to town)
Exact (scum or kind of a sweetie tbh)
KB (smart scum or kind of a sweetie)
Poison (closer to scum than others)

SCUM PICKS (ordered most to least)
Rarity (not sure between rarity viva, but I think rarity pips it)
Viva
Max (very very awkward over all, shows intellect, has an pretty intellectual scum game imo)

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


I found myself with a couple of binaries for "if x is scum y probably isn't" just based on the amount of interaction between people I felt were scummy/looked bad by virtue of treatment of Opop.

need a break tho, might not pursue that

I'll answer questions and participate, but I haven't caught up on the start of D2 and I know it's not much but I really want a break from critical reading

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


DuckHuntDog posted:

Reading Opop, I don't see a lot of interactions that jump out at me. The only vote he put down was WM as that gained some traction.

I am not really feeling the arguments on Viva just because she has been putting in a lot of effort, and I really don't see scum trying that hard especially while defending Opop D1.

##vote Hal

He has been really inactive, but I read him as apathetic scum and possibly frustrated about Opop.


Early on agrees pretty strongly that Opop is scum, but waits a while until it seems a bit inevitable before actually putting down a vote. Other than that, has mostly been jokey lurking.

Hm, I like this.

Though please comment on Rarity and Max.

You know you've been pretty lurky, too?

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

I just noticed the deadline is Monday, not Tuesday as I had assumed. This is not ideal, but ##vote Exact.

Read his posts before the end of D1, he's trying to salvage the situation by setting up today's lynch.
Read FV's case on him.
Read his case on me on the last page. Everything he quotes has a perfectly logical non-scum response, but he's not interested in hearing my interpretation of events - he's tunnel visioned into interpreting everything I posted this game as a scumtell. Cause his decision is obviously made up and he's (over)manufacturing evidence. He's scum and he has obvious reasons to pick me to case, but there's no great evidence against me and he's scrambling to act like there is. I feel more strongly about this vote than almost any other one I can remember. Please reread him and consider this.

preview: drat, ram

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007



Huh. Everyone thinks I'm town today.

I'm not sure I really agree with the reasons but w/e.

Lemme try to put together something more substantial than gut.

DuckHuntDog
May 13, 2004




King Burgundy posted:

How do you feel about Rarity?

TheRam posted:

Hm, I like this.

Though please comment on Rarity and Max.

You know you've been pretty lurky, too?

I have been a bit lurky, but I am never a high volume poster.

Rarity has been a bit white noise to me this game, but rereading her she was one of the big pushes behind WM over Opop D1 and avoided talking much about Opop other than dismissing the slip while admonishing him. She is also doing a LOT of the asking other players questions about third party alignments, which overused like is a good way to look like you are playing as scum. I could see her as scum.

Max I talked a bit about yesterday, and he got really defensive about me mentioning him. His post count/content ratio is high enough that it is really hard to read him as well. I would probably vote Max, but not over Hal/Rarity.

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


I forgot to say, I don't care or expect if people read my giant post. If you disagree or are interested in why I came to a conclusion from my list then cross-reference with my big post and/or ask me a question.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




Oh man this game is easy. ##vote EKAXT Science clearly scum

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




TheRam posted:

I forgot to say, I don't care or expect if people read my giant post. If you disagree or are interested in why I came to a conclusion from my list then cross-reference with my big post and/or ask me a question.

I read the whole thing and I don't have any questions, I thought your points were sensible and coherent. Thanks for being an example to all of us with your outstanding posting style.

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Haha Hal you can mock me all day and I will always think you're great :)

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




No man I really liked it

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Hal Incandenza posted:

No man I really liked it

I buy you as scum before I buy you being sincere there. It's nothing personal, but it's more likely. Especially when our post-styles are bordering on diametrically opposed.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 2

EXAKT Science (3): fiery_valkyrie, VivaNova, Hal Incandenza
VivaNova (2): CapitalistPig, EXAKT Science
TheRam (1): Max
Hal Incandenza (1): DuckHuntDog
Rarity (1): King Burgundy
King Burgundy (1): Poison Mushroom

Not Voting (4): Murmur Twin, Rarity, TheRam, wall monitor

With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to lynch. The current deadline is March 30th, 2015 at 9 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 21 hours, 51 minutes.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




Really though all the points made earlier on EXAKT are completely valid and his posts are like :siren: scum :siren: personified

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




TheRam posted:

I buy you as scum before I buy you being sincere there. It's nothing personal, but it's more likely. Especially when our post-styles are bordering on diametrically opposed.

You can find love in the most unexpected places...

TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


How do you feel about Max voting me?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



wall monitor posted:

Huh. Everyone thinks I'm town today.

I'm not sure I really agree with the reasons but w/e.

Lemme try to put together something more substantial than gut.

I don't want to put you back on your back foot and make you flee the thread again. But I still think its possible you are scum. I just think the more likely scum right now is Rarity.

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TheRam
Jan 15, 2009

What do you mean 'no performing monkeys'?


Catchin up on D2 thoughts.

Why the hell is max votiing me? I don't think his self-awareness of Diqnol's factual inaccuracies exonerate him from his scummy D1 play.

I do kind of agree about WM sooo probably more a neutral read there now, given guidance by scum team especially setting themselves up as one or the other is a possibility I don't want to discount.

FV's point against Exact seems pretty legit I think. The problem is Exact is over all being so.. I don't know if it's self conscious or what, but it's throwing me. I usually have a pretty good "it's a noob [this alignment]" detector and I'm struggling.

EXAKT Science posted:

I feel even better about f_v now, because that feels like a real case to me. It's incorrect, but who gives a poo poo?

This is a good post in Exacts favour imo, self conscious all the time except when voted for. It's like the only thing he knows is his alignment.

##vote Rarity still catching up a bit

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