Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
INCHI DICKARI
Aug 23, 2006

by FactsAreUseless


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock

Wikipedia posted:

Blue Peacock, renamed from Blue Bunny and originally Brown Bunny, was a British tactical nuclear weapon project in the 1950s.

The project's goal was to store a number of ten-kiloton nuclear mines in Germany, to be placed on the North German Plain and, in the event of Soviet invasion from the east, detonated by wire or an eight-day timer[1] to:

" ... not only destroy facilities and installations over a large area, but ... deny occupation of the area to an enemy for an appreciable time due to contamination ..."

One technical problem was that during winter buried objects can get very cold, and it was possible the mine's electronics would get too cold to work after some days underground. Various methods to get around this were studied, such as wrapping the bombs in insulating blankets. One particularly remarkable proposal suggested that live chickens be included in the mechanism. The chickens would be sealed inside the casing, with a supply of food and water; they would remain alive for a week or so. Their body heat would, it seems, have been sufficient to keep the mine's components at a working temperature.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ferrosol
Nov 8, 2010

Notorious J.A.M


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk




Hey guys. Umm our planes can't cover the entire North Atlantic and German U-boats are tearing us a new one. What do we do.

I tell you what we do carve an aircraft carrier out of a mixture of sawdust and ice. :black101:

The funny thing being the prototype actually worked but by the time they were ready to start building a production model production of more conventional escort carriers and longer ranged patrol aircraft no longer made it necessary even though it was a loving awesome idea.

bertolt rekt
Jul 30, 2007



y'all would be interested in this book, written by one of our own native sons. it was like my favorite book in highschool and talks about the iceberg aircraft carrier as well as a bunch of other things

http://www.amazon.com/My-Tank-Fight-Zack-Parsons/dp/0806527587

blunt for century
Jul 4, 2008

I've got a bone to pick.



FirstPersonShitter posted:

They actually made it at 100mt, but at the last minute swapped out half the uranium with lead tamper because of the likelihood of it potentially killing the crew of the plane that'd drop it.

Oh wow, I didn't realize they got that far into the 100mt design, I thought it was just theoretical before they scrapped it for being even more of a waste of fuel. I also didn't think the Soviets would have cared about the pilots surviving.

"Indeed comrade, you will survive. If you worry, fly faster. Extra vodka in the bag" :ussr:



Why didn't they make a stationary test site? Too remote to build properly?

DumbparameciuM
Feb 23, 2015

TOASTIN CONES AND BLASTIN FOES
LOWER HOUSE | LOWER SIXTH


blunt for century posted:

Why didn't they make a stationary test site? Too remote to build properly?

I have wondered exactly this since I first heard about it.


I've been thinking a lot about door breaching recently, so...

The Utas UTS-15 Shotgun!



Hooray for feed-selection shotguns! The UTS was the first to market, but had a high rate of failure. Thankfully the Kel-Tec KSG was there to pick up the slack.

These weapons were designed to be the ultimate in tactical law enforcement shotguns. Ballistic breaching is not a new idea, but it does have issues. Typically the rounds used in ballistic breaching were non-lethal and usually loaded to be the first shells the shotgun would fire in tactical insertion situations. Big problem though - what happens if you get surprised, or you need to return fire*?

Feed selector shotguns allow you to load two individual feed tubes, with a big thumb selector on top to change between them. This makes it possible to have, say, Breaching and LTL rounds on one side, and whatever you want on the other. Shot on one, slug on the other, what have you. Or you can fill the fucker with 15 of the same type, set it to alternate, and "go nuts".

*Considering the range of Picatinny Rail underslung shotguns, feed selector shotguns do fill a rather specific niche. Still cool though.

EDIT: I totally forgot about the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_o3YsUVAyQ

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold



If you're setting off the worlds largest nuke to scare your Cold War enemy, you at least want it to seem deliverable.

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





blunt for century posted:

Oh wow, I didn't realize they got that far into the 100mt design, I thought it was just theoretical before they scrapped it for being even more of a waste of fuel. I also didn't think the Soviets would have cared about the pilots surviving.

"Indeed comrade, you will survive. If you worry, fly faster. Extra vodka in the bag" :ussr:



Why didn't they make a stationary test site? Too remote to build properly?

Well according to the Wiki article it was reconfigured to a 50 MT yield because they were worried about the level of fallout in addition to the pilots safety (The latter being an afterthought IMO).

Don Baylor
Oct 24, 2005


will180 posted:

y'all would be interested in this book, written by one of our own native sons. it was like my favorite book in highschool and talks about the iceberg aircraft carrier as well as a bunch of other things

http://www.amazon.com/My-Tank-Fight-Zack-Parsons/dp/0806527587

I enjoyed this book. I don't remember who I loaned (gave) it to now but I hope they enjoyed it as well.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


cheese-cube posted:

Throw money at Rosoboronexport and get a 3M-54E Club-K system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbUU_9bOcnM

Includes terminal-phase supersonic sprint in the ASM variant (Shown at 6:45 in the video). Apparently even the new US carriers couldn't defend against >1 missiles at once.

I know it is done for practical reasons, but the ideal of a missile-in-a-shipping-container is straight up James Bond Bad Guy.

moller
Jan 10, 2007

Swan stole my music and framed me!




Gun that shoots around corners while stuck in the rear end of a stuffed cat.

moller has a new favorite as of 08:23 on Apr 13, 2015

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Life imitates art?


They're not stuffed

burnsep
Jul 2, 2005


mobby_6kl posted:

They're not stuffed

They are now.

Don Baylor
Oct 24, 2005


My Dad ran on these for a bit in Vietnam, I got a chance to read his Commanding Officers log books when we went out for his reunion several years ago and this is some giant amount of badassery.





I can't remember the name off hand for some reason, but he served on the interceptors as well, (mike-21?) One notable quote from the reunion. "When we needed to put Marines on the ground we could make a Goddamned highway for em'"

That's a Command Control Boat (CCB) in the pictures.

Don Baylor has a new favorite as of 05:53 on Apr 14, 2015

Creed Reunion Tour
Jul 3, 2007

by Cyrano4747


Grimey Drawer

Ok, but what is that thing, and what did it say in the log book?

BogDew
Jun 14, 2006

E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

I'm trying to recall the specifics about a small patrol vessel, possibly a cutter, that managed to install a missile system that when fired bent it's keel.

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.


What the gently caress is it with weapon designers trying to incorporate animals into bombs? It's serious mad scientist poo poo.

B. F. Skinner, famed behavioral psychologist and noted loving weirdo, suggested a pigeon-guided missile, where trained pigeons pecked at a screen to direct the missile toward a target. Some developments in the project were later used in that bat bomb mentioned earlier.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

What the gently caress is it with weapon designers trying to incorporate animals into bombs? It's serious mad scientist poo poo.

B. F. Skinner, famed behavioral psychologist and noted loving weirdo, suggested a pigeon-guided missile, where trained pigeons pecked at a screen to direct the missile toward a target. Some developments in the project were later used in that bat bomb mentioned earlier.

A lot of these (all of them?) were before any sort of guidance system, so they had to have some way to direct the weapon against a target. Without computers and such, why not use prebuilt, programmable intelligences that you can find around you in the world?

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.


Captain Monkey posted:

A lot of these (all of them?) were before any sort of guidance system, so they had to have some way to direct the weapon against a target. Without computers and such, why not use prebuilt, programmable intelligences that you can find around you in the world?

Well largely because they weren't as programmable as people liked to believe, or at the very least, the methodology was so flawed as to be unusable. Granted, this is with the benefit of hindsight, but it's not like contemporaries didn't think these projects were nuts.

There's also those kamikaze dolphins that come up in weird weapons discussions, but I don't think it was ever confirmed that they actually intended to be used in that capacity. Seems like a poo poo ton of effort just to make a weird torpedo.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

Well largely because they weren't as programmable as people liked to believe, or at the very least, the methodology was so flawed as to be unusable. Granted, this is with the benefit of hindsight, but it's not like contemporaries didn't think these projects were nuts.



I mean obviously, but they were trying something, and it was an interesting concept even if its horrific and pretty unworkable.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold



Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

What the gently caress is it with weapon designers trying to incorporate animals into bombs? It's serious mad scientist poo poo.

B. F. Skinner, famed behavioral psychologist and noted loving weirdo, suggested a pigeon-guided missile, where trained pigeons pecked at a screen to direct the missile toward a target. Some developments in the project were later used in that bat bomb mentioned earlier.

At the time neurons were smaller and weighed orders of magnitude less than vacuum tubes.

Cat Hatter
Oct 24, 2006

Hatters gonna hat.


WebDog posted:

I'm trying to recall the specifics about a small patrol vessel, possibly a cutter, that managed to install a missile system that when fired bent it's keel.
You're thinking of the USCGC Mellon:


The story is that the head of the Coast Guard wanted to make his own miniature Navy so he had Harpoon anti-ship missile and anti-sub warfare capabilities installed on a cutter. Unfortunately (because its less interesting) the story about the keel breaking is just an urban legend and the missiles were removed because they were too expensive.

The U.S. Coast Guard posted:

CGC MELLON received the CG Unit Commendation Medal from 6 February 1989 to 27 February 1990, for her successful execution of several military readiness missions. Perhaps the most noteworthy of these efforts was her successful test firing of a Harpoon anti-ship missile. CGC MELLON was the only Coast Guard cutter to fire a HARPOON missile. Budget constraints and evolving Coast Guard missions later resulted in the removal of the HARPOON launching system. CGC MELLON retains the distinction of being the only Coast Guard cutter to launch a HARPOON anti-ship missile.
http://www.uscg.mil/pacarea/cgcmellon/history6.asp

While looking that up though, I came across this bit about the Mellon's service in Vietnam:

The U.S. Coast Guard posted:

Mellon saw extensive service during the conflict in Vietnam. She was twice awarded the Meritorious Unit Commendation during the Vietnam War. She sailed as part of Task Force 115 (U.S. Navy Coastal Surveillance Force) which maintained close serveillance over 1,200 miles of Vietnamese coastline and 64,000 licensed watercraft. The task force seized large quantities of war material, preventing it from reaching enemy hands. During her service in the waters adjacent to Vietnam, Mellon also conducted numerous naval gunfire support missions, rescue operations, medical civic action programs and training programs for Vietnamese military personnel.
So I guess at one point it wasn't as insane to imagine the Coast Guard attacking other ships, but it still seems weird (to me) to send cutters out to assist the Navy in blockading a foreign nation, even though if you replace "Vietnam" with "Florida" and "guns" with "drugs" you basically have their current job.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

What the gently caress is it with weapon designers trying to incorporate animals into bombs? It's serious mad scientist poo poo.

B. F. Skinner, famed behavioral psychologist and noted loving weirdo, suggested a pigeon-guided missile, where trained pigeons pecked at a screen to direct the missile toward a target. Some developments in the project were later used in that bat bomb mentioned earlier.

There was a time when computers and electronics were too expensive to be crammed into things that would destroy them but pigeons were loving everywhere and nobody really cares if you kill a pigeon. Pigeons are also significantly smarter than regular missiles.

8th-snype
Aug 28, 2005

My office is in the front room of a run-down 12 megapixel sensor but the rent suits me and the landlord doesn't ask many questions.

Dorkroom Short Fiction Champion 2012




Young Orc

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Pigeons are also significantly smarter than regular missiles.

This is an insult to the regular missile community.

ClothHat
Mar 2, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF THE LUMPEN-GOBLITARIAT
protip: trust no links I post


Tuxedo Ted posted:

I remember watching a documentary about Operation Chastise many years back.

Back in WW2, the British needed to destroy the Möhne dam. It was the lynch pin for the whole Ruhr Valley industrial center. Destroying the dam would sap their electric power, render them unable to produce pure quality water for steelmaking, and just in general make it tougher for the Nazis to produce their own war machines. Traditional bombing might have worked, but it would require multiple strikes and unerring precision. Plus, the whole area was highly fortified and defended. Whatever high altitude bombing force send would face massive losses for a slim chance at success. Torpedo attacks were also considered, but all along the river were several torpedo nets that would catch or prematurely detonate the torpedo, keeping the dam safe and sound.

The solution:




Was the trench run in Star Wars based on this?

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

8th-snype posted:

This is an insult to the regular missile community.

Get out cissile het scum this is a safe place for pigeon missiles.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010





ClothHat posted:

Was the trench run in Star Wars based on this?

It was at least inspired by the movie based off of the mission. So yes.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


22 Eargesplitten posted:

It was at least inspired by the movie based off of the mission. So yes.

You could say that it goes a bit more than just 'inspired by'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M#t=41s

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008




8th-snype posted:

This is an insult to the regular missile community.

Yeah watch yourself, they'll go off on you without provocation.

Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006


All these fancy electronic devices are nifty but what madness from nearly 100 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun

This beast launched the first man-made objects into the stratosphere, and when it first started landing shells in its target area its range was so much that at first it was believed that airplanes had dropped bombs.

blunt for century
Jul 4, 2008

I've got a bone to pick.



:siren: Scattergun carpetbomb post incoming! :siren:

The Punt Gun

Not meant for wartime, but still pretty bizarre.

"Wikipedia: Punt Gun posted:

A punt gun is a type of extremely large shotgun used in the 19th and early 20th centuries for shooting large numbers of waterfowl for commercial harvesting operations.

Punt guns were usually custom-designed and so varied widely, but could have bore diameters exceeding 2 inches (51 mm) and fire over a pound (≈ 0.45 kg) of shot at a time.[1] A single shot could kill over 50 waterfowl resting on the water's surface. They were too big to hold and the recoil so large that they were mounted directly on the punts used for hunting, hence their name. Hunters would maneuver their punts quietly into line and range of the flock using poles or oars to avoid startling them. Generally the gun was fixed to the punt; thus the hunter would maneuver the entire boat in order to aim the gun. The guns were sufficiently powerful, and the punts themselves sufficiently small, that firing the gun often propelled the punt backwards several inches or more. To improve efficiency, hunters could work in fleets of up to around ten punts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk












The ammunition for a smaller kind of punt gun compared to a 12 gauge shotshell


e. I genuinely can't figure out why the syntax is hosed up in this post, I've tried like 40 times to fix it. :saddowns:
Gotta put it in two posts I guess.

blunt for century has a new favorite as of 02:04 on Apr 15, 2015

blunt for century
Jul 4, 2008

I've got a bone to pick.



Now something similar that is used for war:
Grape Shot

"Wikipedia posted:

In artillery, a grapeshot is a type of shot that is not one solid element, but a mass of small metal balls or slugs packed tightly into a canvas bag.[1] It was used both in land and naval warfare. When assembled, the balls resembled a cluster of grapes, hence the name. On firing, the balls spread out from the muzzle, giving an effect similar to a giant shotgun.

Grapeshot was devastatingly effective against massed infantry at short range. It was used to savage massed infantry charges quickly. Cannons would fire solid shot to attack enemy artillery and troops at longer range and switch to grape when they or nearby troops were charged. When used in naval warfare grapeshot served a dual purpose. First it continued its role as an anti-personnel projectile. However, the effect was diminished due to a large portion of the crew being below decks and the addition of hammock netting in iron brackets intended to slow or stop smaller shot.[2] Second, the balls were cast large enough to cut rigging, destroy spars, blocks, and puncture multiple sails.[3][4]

Canister shot, also known as case shot, was packaged in a tin or brass container, possibly guided by a wooden sabot. Canister balls did not have to punch through the wooden hull of a ship, so were smaller and more numerous. The later shrapnel shell was similar, but with a much greater range.

Scattershot is an improvised form of grapeshot which uses chain links, nails, shards of glass, rocks or other similar objects as the projectiles. Although scattershot can be cheaply made, it is less effective than grapeshot due to the lack of uniformity in the projectiles' mass, shape, material, and resultant ballistics.


I think this might be from a videogame, but it's a good comparison of grape shot and canister shot



And a modern version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgn1nhUEgo8

It's loving crazy watching a sonic boom in slow motion :stare:

DumbparameciuM
Feb 23, 2015

TOASTIN CONES AND BLASTIN FOES
LOWER HOUSE | LOWER SIXTH


Good posts as always blunt.

Was gunna do a post about BLEVE's and their military usages but I am sadbrain today (estranging my lovely parents, whoo) so look forward to massive loving explosion videos tomorrow.

Tiberius Thyben
Feb 7, 2013

Gone Phishing



blunt's post reminded me of Jingals, or large caliber wall guns used by India and china from the 18th to nearly the mid 20th century. They were mounted on rampart swivels, had barrels of 5 or more feet, and were used as a type of precision artillery or sniper rifle.


The above picture is a .60 caliber single shot bolt action example, produced in 1896. .75 bolt action guns were also produced during the period.


.60 cartridge fired by the above gun, next to a .50 BGM and a 7.62×54mmR cartridge.

Guns following a similar philosophy were produced in the west as well up until about the mid 19th century. Here is a French .90 caliber paper cartridge rampart gun from 1836.

Tiberius Thyben has a new favorite as of 09:31 on Apr 15, 2015

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Dr. Benway posted:

The granddaddy of insanely bad ideas has to go to Project Pluto.

Dammit, that was what I came here to post, figures some other goon would have got there first.

Project Pluto shows that Dr. Strangelove just barely qualifies as fiction.

El Estrago Bonito
Dec 17, 2010

Scout Finch Bitch


Tiberius Thyben posted:

blunt's post reminded me of Jingals, or large caliber wall guns used by India and china from the 18th to nearly the mid 20th century. They were mounted on rampart swivels, had barrels of 5 or more feet, and were used as a type of precision artillery or sniper rifle.


The above picture is a .60 caliber single shot bolt action example, produced in 1896. .75 bolt action guns were also produced during the period.


.60 cartridge fired by the above gun, next to a .50 BGM and a 7.62×54mmR cartridge.

Guns following a similar philosophy were produced in the west as well up until about the mid 19th century. Here is a French .90 caliber paper cartridge rampart gun from 1836.


I mean, they wen't on pretty much up into the modern day/WWII since they are basically the predecessor to AT Rifles like the T-Gewehr.

Count Freebasie
Jan 12, 2006



It was never completed, but the Nazi's Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte



Let's build a gently caress-off tank that weighs 1000 tons and is large enough to arm it with naval guns normally mounted on battleships.

Pondex
Jul 8, 2014



Count Freebasie posted:

It was never completed, but the Nazi's Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte



Let's build a gently caress-off tank that weighs 1000 tons and is large enough to arm it with naval guns normally mounted on battleships.

I just love that unique kind of stupid the nazis brought to weapon-design near the end of the war.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



My favourite thing about it is its main guns had an effective range of half its maximum hourly travel distance. It could fire reliably at a target it would take half an hour to drive to.

its curtains for Kevin
Nov 14, 2011

Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us.

Just kidding!

Life is meaningless


Those weapons seem a lot sillier to me as an american, but probably because our one country has the landmass of the entire european region ish



obviously its not 1:1 but something low mobility like that would make -mildly- more sense in a smaller country like france or germany

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

3
Aug 26, 2006

The Magic Number




College Slice

NTT posted:

obviously its not 1:1 but something low mobility like that would make -mildly- more sense in a smaller country like france or germany

It wouldn't, and it was cancelled for a reason (okay, several reasons). Sure, it was heavily armed and armored enough to theoretically take on an entire armored division and come out on top, but as soon as the Allies could pin its location down, they could just saturate the area with bombs dropped from B-17s flying well outside of the range of its paltry AA defenses. When the lynchpin of your armored forces is the size of a middling building and moves about half as fast, flattening it from the sky becomes extremely trivial.

  • Locked thread