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  • Locked thread
Crusty Nutsack
Apr 21, 2005

SUCK LASER, COPPERS

WHY BE A FATCAT WHEN YOU CAN BE A SMOKERAT?

COOL ZONE HERO, ASK ME ABOUT MY LIVESTREAMS




Commie NedFlanders posted:

Stop right here.

I think a whole lot of what I'm seeing is people lining up to condemn the Duggars and also other Christians for being sanctimonious hypocrites. I think people are getting satisfaction from someone who claims to have found the truth having just as ugly problems as the rest of us.

Now I understand that many people have had the unfortunate experience of people claiming to use Christianity or Christian values as an exterior to justify at attitude of judging others.

I grew up in the south and unfortunately there's an ugly history of people wrapping up hate in a pretty package. With all of that in mind, I can see how people might think "oh well these people believe they are better than us so it's good to see them suffer in their problems". Here's the thing though, it should be clear to anyone with a passing understanding of Christianity to see that if someone is authentically trying to live a Christian life, they are absolutely not the target of your frustrations.

Christianity is about humility, it's about forgiveness, it's about acknowledging first and foremost that I am a sinner, I messed up, I'm unclean and accepting that and knowing that I have no place to cast judgement on others. It's about the togetherness we find in being alone, unworthy, hell even unlovable in the infinite judgement of God yet still loved and by redemption through Christ we find a way to aim for something better.


I think this whole debacle goes to show that no matter how picture perfect your family seems, everyone has sin, everyone messes up, every single one of us stepped in poo poo. Christians are not above that and there is no Christian justification for behaving as if one is holier than thou.



There seems to be so much of other people projecting intentions and stuff onto this family. I think they have all shown shame, humility,and repentance and I don't think anyone is trying to downplay the significance of this.

It's just not helpful in anyway to anyone (especially the poor girls) to make this into a media spectacle and tear the family to pieces as a way to take a jab at Christianity

tldr

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Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!


Commie NedFlanders posted:

Stop right here.

I think a whole lot of what I'm seeing is people lining up to condemn the Duggars and also other Christians for being sanctimonious hypocrites. I think people are getting satisfaction from someone who claims to have found the truth having just as ugly problems as the rest of us.

Now I understand that many people have had the unfortunate experience of people claiming to use Christianity or Christian values as an exterior to justify at attitude of judging others.

I grew up in the south and unfortunately there's an ugly history of people wrapping up hate in a pretty package. With all of that in mind, I can see how people might think "oh well these people believe they are better than us so it's good to see them suffer in their problems". Here's the thing though, it should be clear to anyone with a passing understanding of Christianity to see that if someone is authentically trying to live a Christian life, they are absolutely not the target of your frustrations.

Christianity is about humility, it's about forgiveness, it's about acknowledging first and foremost that I am a sinner, I messed up, I'm unclean and accepting that and knowing that I have no place to cast judgement on others. It's about the togetherness we find in being alone, unworthy, hell even unlovable in the infinite judgement of God yet still loved and by redemption through Christ we find a way to aim for something better.


I think this whole debacle goes to show that no matter how picture perfect your family seems, everyone has sin, everyone messes up, every single one of us stepped in poo poo. Christians are not above that and there is no Christian justification for behaving as if one is holier than thou.



There seems to be so much of other people projecting intentions and stuff onto this family. I think they have all shown shame, humility,and repentance and I don't think anyone is trying to downplay the significance of this.

It's just not helpful in anyway to anyone (especially the poor girls) to make this into a media spectacle and tear the family to pieces as a way to take a jab at Christianity

source your quotes

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008



Commie NedFlanders posted:

Stop right here.

I think a whole lot of what I'm seeing is people lining up to condemn the Duggars and also other Christians for being sanctimonious hypocrites. I think people are getting satisfaction from someone who claims to have found the truth having just as ugly problems as the rest of us.

Now I understand that many people have had the unfortunate experience of people claiming to use Christianity or Christian values as an exterior to justify at attitude of judging others.

I grew up in the south and unfortunately there's an ugly history of people wrapping up hate in a pretty package. With all of that in mind, I can see how people might think "oh well these people believe they are better than us so it's good to see them suffer in their problems". Here's the thing though, it should be clear to anyone with a passing understanding of Christianity to see that if someone is authentically trying to live a Christian life, they are absolutely not the target of your frustrations.

Christianity is about humility, it's about forgiveness, it's about acknowledging first and foremost that I am a sinner, I messed up, I'm unclean and accepting that and knowing that I have no place to cast judgement on others. It's about the togetherness we find in being alone, unworthy, hell even unlovable in the infinite judgement of God yet still loved and by redemption through Christ we find a way to aim for something better.


I think this whole debacle goes to show that no matter how picture perfect your family seems, everyone has sin, everyone messes up, every single one of us stepped in poo poo. Christians are not above that and there is no Christian justification for behaving as if one is holier than thou.



There seems to be so much of other people projecting intentions and stuff onto this family. I think they have all shown shame, humility,and repentance and I don't think anyone is trying to downplay the significance of this.

It's just not helpful in anyway to anyone (especially the poor girls) to make this into a media spectacle and tear the family to pieces as a way to take a jab at Christianity
lol

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta nuke something


Commie NedFlanders posted:

Stop right here.

I think a whole lot of what I'm seeing is people lining up to condemn the Duggars and also other Christians for being sanctimonious hypocrites. I think people are getting satisfaction from someone who claims to have found the truth having just as ugly problems as the rest of us.

Now I understand that many people have had the unfortunate experience of people claiming to use Christianity or Christian values as an exterior to justify at attitude of judging others.

I grew up in the south and unfortunately there's an ugly history of people wrapping up hate in a pretty package. With all of that in mind, I can see how people might think "oh well these people believe they are better than us so it's good to see them suffer in their problems". Here's the thing though, it should be clear to anyone with a passing understanding of Christianity to see that if someone is authentically trying to live a Christian life, they are absolutely not the target of your frustrations.

Christianity is about humility, it's about forgiveness, it's about acknowledging first and foremost that I am a sinner, I messed up, I'm unclean and accepting that and knowing that I have no place to cast judgement on others. It's about the togetherness we find in being alone, unworthy, hell even unlovable in the infinite judgement of God yet still loved and by redemption through Christ we find a way to aim for something better.


I think this whole debacle goes to show that no matter how picture perfect your family seems, everyone has sin, everyone messes up, every single one of us stepped in poo poo. Christians are not above that and there is no Christian justification for behaving as if one is holier than thou.



There seems to be so much of other people projecting intentions and stuff onto this family. I think they have all shown shame, humility,and repentance and I don't think anyone is trying to downplay the significance of this.

It's just not helpful in anyway to anyone (especially the poor girls) to make this into a media spectacle and tear the family to pieces as a way to take a jab at Christianity

So what you're trying to say is it's a poo-poo religion for dumb-dumbs.

Cool, I think everyone is on the same page now.

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot


lol what difference does their religion make, religion is not the relevant part of the story, it's purely political. This didn't happen because the Duggars are Christian, it happened because they're famous and of the vocal political position that trannies gonna rape or something stupid

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



mdm posted:

lol what difference does their religion make, religion is not the relevant part of the story, it's purely political. This didn't happen because the Duggars are Christian, it happened because they're famous and of the vocal political position that trannies gonna rape or something stupid

Also how they did the whole ideal perfect fundie thing and made millions of dollars from their positive image even though they built a rape house

Mr. Pumroy
May 20, 2001



* i n leeroy jenkins voicwe* JIM BAWWWWWWWWB DUGGARRRRRRRRRRR

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

lol what difference does their religion make, religion is not the relevant part of the story, it's purely political. This didn't happen because the Duggars are Christian, it happened because they're famous and of the vocal political position that trannies gonna rape or something stupid

whoa hold up perhaps i'm missing something but when was the duggar family going around accusing people of rape or hating on others?

i haven't seen too much about them, but every time i look further they seem very judicious and careful and open and not at all like your fundie aunt who gets drunk and screams about the gays at thanksgiving

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



etalian posted:

Also how they did the whole ideal perfect fundie thing and made millions of dollars from their positive image even though they built a rape house

i think this is closer to being honest about what's driving the criticism.


people don't like that they have a clean and good image by living a christian lifestyle.





i really hate it when people like oreilly and handy bloviate about the "war on christians" but come on, wanting to see people fall and suffer simply for living an ethical life according to their beliefs sadly adds fuel to all of the christian victim perseceution hysteria

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008



michelle had an ad campaign about transwomen raping YOUR DAUGHTERS if theyre allowed in womens toilets

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008



lol ethical life

Captain Yossarian
Feb 24, 2011

All new" Rings of Fire"


Also, unless I'm mistaken, Jim Bob ran for office on the political platform of "pedophiles should be out to death"

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot


Michelle's so dumb she probably thought if Jesus didn't enter Josh's heart or whatever he would have grown up to be a tranny and rape more girls in bathrooms

It all makes sense now

Portals
Apr 17, 2012



Commie NedFlanders posted:

whoa hold up perhaps i'm missing something but when was the duggar family going around accusing people of rape or hating on others?

i haven't seen too much about them, but every time i look further they seem very judicious and careful and open and not at all like your fundie aunt who gets drunk and screams about the gays at thanksgiving

they are blatantly homophobic and transphobic and most of their practices involve not treating women like fellow humans so basically if you're not a straight cisgendered male you should have an issue with them

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



perhaps in the light of all of this they may see the error of their ways in embracing reactionary neo-fascist politics. they seem reflective and humble. i hope they continue to grow and search and find peace in the Lord God

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008



i hope they fall out with the federal government and go down in a blaze of glory

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta nuke something


Hey, you know those guitars that are, like, double guitars?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

they are blatantly homophobic and transphobic and most of their practices involve not treating women like fellow humans so basically if you're not a straight cisgendered male you should have an issue with them

yeah no i'm gonna have to hold my judgement on this one.


unfortunately liberals are so quick to cal someone homophobia or transphobic or paint them in these horrible ways simply for disagreeing with them. i've seen it too much.

if they really do have that sort of hatred in their heart, i hope they will heal and grow, but i haven't seen it.

let's be honest here. a lot of what liberals call homophobia or transfobia is really just insensitivity and some faux pas

while i understand there is some bigotry which should NOT be tolerated, don't go tripping over yourselves trying to find every secret homophobe like it's some red scare bs.

here's a lesson perhaps that liberal critics of christianity should learn from christians: when someone does something bad, it is not good or helpful to do it back to them.

if we want an open and tolerant and polite and good society, then we need to slow our roll when it comes to trying to purge out anyone who isn't up to speed yet.

i mean i understand the irony here speaking as a communist, revolutionary terror has its place whatever, but come on

staberind
Feb 20, 2008

Klomping endlessly thru the gray void...





Fun Shoe

Ned here, showing us how to hustle.

Say Nothing
Mar 4, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


mdm posted:

Michelle's so dumb she probably thought if Jesus didn't enter Josh's heart or whatever he would have grown up to be a tranny and rape more girls in bathrooms

It all makes sense now

Portals
Apr 17, 2012



Commie NedFlanders posted:

yeah no i'm gonna have to hold my judgement on this one.


unfortunately liberals are so quick to cal someone homophobia or transphobic or paint them in these horrible ways simply for disagreeing with them. i've seen it too much.

if they really do have that sort of hatred in their heart, i hope they will heal and grow, but i haven't seen it.

let's be honest here. a lot of what liberals call homophobia or transfobia is really just insensitivity and some faux pas

while i understand there is some bigotry which should NOT be tolerated, don't go tripping over yourselves trying to find every secret homophobe like it's some red scare bs.

here's a lesson perhaps that liberal critics of christianity should learn from christians: when someone does something bad, it is not good or helpful to do it back to them.

if we want an open and tolerant and polite and good society, then we need to slow our roll when it comes to trying to purge out anyone who isn't up to speed yet.

i mean i understand the irony here speaking as a communist, revolutionary terror has its place whatever, but come on

bro look, they sent out a robocall that was blatantly against trans people. it sure as heck wasnt just a "faux pas"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ation-robocall/

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

bro look, they sent out a robocall that was blatantly against trans people. it sure as heck wasnt just a "faux pas"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ation-robocall/

you know drat well that the entire republican political strategy is trying to dupe people who have honest convictions into voting for their vampire power structure



i don't think she was out trying to hurt trans people, look at the transcript from her robocall:

quote:

Hello, this is Michelle Duggar. Iím calling to inform you of some shocking news that would affect the safety of Northwest Arkansas women and children. The Fayetteville City Council is voting on an ordinance this Tuesday night that would allow men Ė yes I said men Ė to use womens and girls restrooms, locker rooms, showers, sleeping areas and other areas that are designated for females only. I donít believe the citizens of Fayetteville would want males with past child predator convictions that claim they are female to have a legal right to enter private areas that are reserved for women and girls. I doubt that Fayetteville parents would stand for a law that would endanger their daughters or allow them to be traumatized by a man joining them in their private space. We should never place the preference of an adult over the safety and innocence of a child. Parents, who do you want undressing next to your daughter at the public swimming poolís private changing area? I still believe that we are a society that puts women and children first. Women, young ladies and little girls deserve to use the restroom or any other facility in peace and safety. Will you speak up for protecting women and children?


Now she may be misinformed about whatever law this is (i don't know the specifics, but I do know how effective the right wing propaganda machine is at controlling narratives), but if we just take her at her word, and accept that she believes this law is going to do exactly what she is saying it will do, do you think she is terrible for opposing it?


this doesn't look like she's going around trying to force trans people to see the world her way and accept Christ, it sounds like she was afraid that males with child predator convictions might find a loophole in the law which would allow them to enter private areas.

that doesn't sound to me like westboro baptist church it sounds like a concerned mom

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot


Commie NedFlanders posted:

yeah no i'm gonna have to hold my judgement on this one.


unfortunately liberals are so quick to cal someone homophobia or transphobic or paint them in these horrible ways simply for disagreeing with them. i've seen it too much.

if they really do have that sort of hatred in their heart, i hope they will heal and grow, but i haven't seen it.

let's be honest here. a lot of what liberals call homophobia or transfobia is really just insensitivity and some faux pas

while i understand there is some bigotry which should NOT be tolerated, don't go tripping over yourselves trying to find every secret homophobe like it's some red scare bs.

here's a lesson perhaps that liberal critics of christianity should learn from christians: when someone does something bad, it is not good or helpful to do it back to them.

if we want an open and tolerant and polite and good society, then we need to slow our roll when it comes to trying to purge out anyone who isn't up to speed yet.

i mean i understand the irony here speaking as a communist, revolutionary terror has its place whatever, but come on

you really don't understand the story do you

Michelle voiced a robocall commercial in a political campaign that was disparaging of transexuals, no one tripped over themselves to find her transphobia, she broadcast it for political purposes

Everyone who dares enter politics in that way is held to the same standard, especially in the era of free information.

Frankly, Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh shouldn't have been so reckless to enter political battles of that magnitude with skeletons in the closet like that. They alone are responsible for this media spectacle.

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



i think it's time for American christians to do some soul searching with regards to how the Christian faith has been coopted by political right-wingers and fanatics.

it's no good.


However, all confusions considered, I don't think someone having traditional views of marriage and gender is a terrible thing (not too terrible at least, i think feminism is necessary)

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!


XMNN posted:

i hope they fall out with the federal government and go down in a blaze of glory

branch davidians, quiverfulls... tanks and napalm solve everything

big business man
Sep 30, 2012



Commie NedFlanders posted:

you know drat well that the entire republican political strategy is trying to dupe people who have honest convictions into voting for their vampire power structure



i don't think she was out trying to hurt trans people, look at the transcript from her robocall:



Now she may be misinformed about whatever law this is (i don't know the specifics, but I do know how effective the right wing propaganda machine is at controlling narratives), but if we just take her at her word, and accept that she believes this law is going to do exactly what she is saying it will do, do you think she is terrible for opposing it?


this doesn't look like she's going around trying to force trans people to see the world her way and accept Christ, it sounds like she was afraid that males with child predator convictions might find a loophole in the law which would allow them to enter private areas.

that doesn't sound to me like westboro baptist church it sounds like a concerned mom

lol

Portals
Apr 17, 2012



I know the westboro baptist church says that god hates fags, but they're really just under the control of the conservatives. they look more like concerned parents to me, letting people know the dangers of sinning. the drat liberal media is so biased against christians

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot


The wages of sin is death for pedophiles - Jim Bob

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

I know the westboro baptist church says that god hates fags, but they're really just under the control of the conservatives. they look more like concerned parents to me, letting people know the dangers of sinning. the drat liberal media is so biased against christians

westboro baptist church is shameful garbage

Portals
Apr 17, 2012



Commie NedFlanders posted:

westboro baptist church is shameful garbage

and the duggar family adults aren't?

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot


Yeah at least the WBC guys are consistent, albeit obnoxious

Bethamphetamine
Oct 29, 2012




College Slice

Captain Yossarian posted:

Also, unless I'm mistaken, Jim Bob ran for office on the political platform of "pedophiles should be out to death"

Pedophiles, and those who commit incest.

Literally, the first human being he created and raised was a grotesque thing that was disgusting to him.

Jim Bob is a monster. A tragic monster.


e: Josh is also a monster. Everything is awful, nothing is good. Where is hope?

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007


I hate to break it to you guys, but being right with the Lord doesn't absolve you from being punished by the world for your sins. The laws of God are expressly not the laws of man, and Christians are called on to obey worldly authorities where their laws do not contradict the laws of God. Government authorities are granted the right to rule by God's divine will, for good and for ill. Since Josh and his parents conveniently didn't report this crime until it was no longer punishable by law, it is perfectly acceptable to me that the Duggars take some heat now. Jesus promised his followers a life full of suffering, hardships and unjust persecution, so just trust in the Lord and await your rewards in heaven. If you want a comfortable life free from want or worry, come join me in the atheist camp.

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

and the duggar family adults aren't?

do you really see those two groups at the same level? i mean yeah we're all sinners but can you really not see a difference between the duggars family and the phelps family?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Pvt.Scott posted:

I hate to break it to you guys, but being right with the Lord doesn't absolve you from being punished by the world for your sins. The laws of God are expressly not the laws of man, and Christians are called on to obey worldly authorities where their laws do not contradict the laws of God. Government authorities are granted the right to rule by God's divine will, for good and for ill. Since Josh and his parents conveniently didn't report this crime until it was no longer punishable by law, it is perfectly acceptable to me that the Duggars take some heat now. Jesus promised his followers a life full of suffering, hardships and unjust persecution, so just trust in the Lord and await your rewards in heaven. If you want a comfortable life free from want or worry, come join me in the atheist camp.

good post


i agree really, perhaps things are all just working out the way they should....

still though, as for me, i'm in no position to cast stones at anyone so i hope their family can grow from this awful situation

Commie NedFlanders fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jun 12, 2015

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007


Commie NedFlanders posted:

do you really see those two groups at the same level? i mean yeah we're all sinners but can you really not see a difference between the duggars family and the phelps family?

For starters, the Phelps treat their women much better.

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot


Commie NedFlanders posted:

do you really see those two groups at the same level? i mean yeah we're all sinners but can you really not see a difference between the duggars family and the phelps family?

The difference is how they are portrayed in the media

Regrettable
Jan 4, 2010


Commie NedFlanders posted:

i think it's time for American christians to do some soul searching with regards to how the Christian faith has been coopted by political right-wingers and fanatics.

it's no good.


However, all confusions considered, I don't think someone having traditional views of marriage and gender is a terrible thing (not too terrible at least, i think feminism is necessary)

Go back to yospos.

Bethamphetamine
Oct 29, 2012




College Slice

Pvt.Scott posted:

racist diatribe. Lazy, at that.

The euro-judeo christ exists as a thing to be fought, not just ignored. But at the very least, it should be totally ignored.

posted:

Christians are called on to obey worldly authorities where their laws do not contradict the laws of God. Government authorities are granted the right to rule by God's divine will, for good and for ill. Since Josh and his parents conveniently didn't

Aww, gently caress
Imagine I typed an awesome carepost totally destroying your position here. I had a thing, I accidentally deleted it. But your takeaway should be that I'm super-cool and awesome in a lot of different ways.

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Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

The difference is how they are portrayed in the media

and how they portray themselves and live

the phelps family are purposefully antagonistic, they are trolls, haters, they are trying to mess with people and their worldview is perverted beyond recognition. they are trying to cause suffering to others just to drive home their obsessive interest in their single-topic faith. they want to cause as much trouble as possible for the purpose of shaming gays, it's awful.


the duggers seem to be coming from a place of benevolence and care and they don't seem to be out trying to hurt anyone, but they are limited in their perspective too and they may not always see how to best do this, but this is what comes with a good Christian lifestyle, you find yourself with certain convictions but you don't want to cause problems for others. it's a very way to live

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