Strong Convections posted:

I don't understand your argument , is it that she can't have an opinion on something because her son did something wrong?

People that disagree with her lifestyle aren't going to listen to her opinions on stuff anyway. People who agree with her are just going to feel like she's just had a hard time of it.

afeelgoodpoop posted:

i dont get what the big deal is big familys get incest problems all the time. i think an anonymous college study put it at 20% of families with brothers and sisters.

Jonny 290 posted:

michelle duggar is nearing fifty years of age and still uses the submissive littlegirlvoice

go watch a youtube or smth. its gross

Top City Homo posted:

what does that voice tell us about her professor?

Vicodiva posted:

Given that the Duggar's philosophy of teaching toddlers involves "Blanket Training" to teach "self control"... Josh Duggar is 100% accountable at 14


Blanket training is a type of corporal punishment used to discipline infants and toddlers. Proponents believe that blanket training trains very young children to stay on a blanket.

Blanket training is a method adapted from the methods encouraged in To Train Up a Child

To blanket train a child, a caretaker places the infant or toddler on a blanket and inflicts pain on the child when he or she attempts to leave the blanket. Proponents of blanket training believe that eventually the child will stay on the blanket without adult intervention or enforcement because the child has come to associate leaving the blanket with pain.

quote:

First, Michael and Debi look at a child and see evil. You can read this on their blog and in their book. They talk constantly about children manipulating people, trying to get the better of you, lying, crying in an effort to "control" their parents. This is not some crazy reading of their philosophy. You can find this on any page of anything they ever wrote...

Instead of looking at what children actually can think and know and understand at a given age, the Pearls project cunning intelligence and evil motives. They look at a baby too young to recognize himself in the mirror, and see a master manipulator who cries not because he's uncomfortable or lonely or can't sleep, but because he wants to get the better of his parents. They look at a tiny toddler who can't yet even understand that different people know different things, and they think that the child is using her mother's fear of embarrassment to manipulate her into a hug.

Third, Michael and Debi don't just think you have to defeat a child, they think that control over children has to be total. A lot of people here have quoted the part of the book where Debi hands a toy to a fifteen-month-old she is babysitting (that's about the age most kids are just walking). The baby doesn't want to play with the toy. Debi hits him with a switch again and again until the baby "plays" with the toy she wants him to play with. (The Pearls describe the baby as doing this "begrudgingly" - which again, shows how they project evil intentions onto children and babies with no understanding of how a child's mind grows and develops in stages.)

Pearl wants parents to keep switches highly visible in every room of the house, in every car. The intimidation and the threat of violence, for him, has to be constant. Pearl and his acolytes talk so much about having a home that is "peaceful" and "joyful." "Peace" is not the silence of a battlefield where all the enemies have been killed. "Joy" is not the smile of a hostage who smiles to keep the blows from falling.

the great deceiver posted:

my quiver is full, so sayeth the duggar

natetimm posted:

If you have enough kids, eventually one of them will be a Hitler.

bonvivant posted:

nice this is the most evil thing I've read in a while


unbelievable that a psychosexually hosed up person was raised using such wholesome christian techniques

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

bonvivant posted:

nice this is the most evil thing I've read in a while


unbelievable that a psychosexually hosed up person was raised using such wholesome christian techniques

quote:

This is the tenth post of our weeklong series, Into the Light: A Series on Abuse and the Church, which features the stories of abuse survivors, along with insights from professional counselors, legal experts, and church leaders about how to better prepare Christians to prevent and respond to abuse. Through the course of the series, we will be discussing child abuse, spiritual abuse, sexual violence and abuse, domestic violence, and bullying. Check out the previous posts here.

Before we conclude the series tomorrow morning with a list of resources and some final thoughts, I wanted to share a previous post of mine in which I issue a warning about the abusive teachings of Michael and Debi Pearl. I think it's important to speak bluntly and directly about this because the Pearl books remain inexplicably popular within many evangelical churches, but their teachings are incredibly damaging. So if your church is considering doing a study around Debi Pearl's Created to Be His Helpmeet or any of the Pearls' "No Greater Joy" material, please consider passing this post along to the leadership.

***

Lydia Schatz was seven years old when her parents beat her to death with a quarter-inch plastic tubing for apparently mispronouncing a word. The couple, who were later prosecuted, claimed to be following the “biblical” parenting techniques advocated by Michael and Debi Pearl.

Lydia is one of three children whose death has been linked to the teachings of Michael and Debi Pearl.

Through their “No Greater Joy Ministries,” Michael and Debi Pearl teach a method of child discipline that centers around “breaking a child’s will.” The Pearls advocate using switches on babies and young as six months, and spanking older children with belts and plumbing tubes. Their book, To Train Up a Child has sold hundreds of thousands of copies and, under the guise of “biblical discipline,” encourages parents to beat their children into submission, withhold food, and hose them down outside when they soil themselves.

Here’s a quote from to give you an idea of their approach:

" Never reward delayed obedience by reversing the sentence. And, unless all else fails, don’t drag him to the place of cleansing. Part of his training is to come submissively. However, if you are just beginning to institute training on an already rebellious child, who runs from discipline and is too incoherent to listen, then use whatever force is necessary to bring him to bay. If you have to sit on him to spank him then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring and are unmoved by his wailing. Defeat him totally. Accept no conditions for surrender. No compromise. You are to rule over him as a benevolent sovereign. Your word is final."

The Pearls’ teachings have been linked to the deaths of Sean Paddock, Lydia Schatz, and Hana Grace-Rose Williams.

My dear friend, and brave woman of valor, Elizabeth Esther has written extensively about the Pearls' abusive tactics.

But it’s not just children who suffer from “No Greater Joys” ministries. When I was conducting research for A Year of Biblical Womanhood, I read Debi Pearl’s popular book, Created to Be His Helpmeet…which I threw across the room a total of seven times.

The writing is awful, the biblical exegesis deplorable, but what troubles me the most is that the book reads like a manual for developing abused wife syndrome. Citing New Testament passages that instruct wives to submit to their husbands, Pearl advocates a system in which godly wives live as complete subordinates to their husbands, with no “equal rights.”

At one point, Pearl encourages a young mother whose husband routinely beat her and threatened to kill her with a kitchen knife to stop “blabbing about his sins” and win him back by showing him more respect

Sudden aggressive outbursts are part of what it means to be a man, according to Pearl. “The wisest way to handle the aggressive husband is by not taking personal offense,” she advises. “Avoid provoking him.”

In an appendix at the end of the book, Michael Pearl weighs in and writes:

“Has your husband reviled you and threatened you? You are exhorted to respond as Jesus did. When he was reviled and threatened, he suffered by committing himself to a higher judge who is righteous. You must commit yourself to the one who placed you under your husband’s command. Your husband will answer to God, and you must answer to God for how you respond to your husband, even when he causes you to suffer.Just as we are to obey government in every ordinance, and servants are to obey their masters, even the ones who are abusive and surly, ‘likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands’…You can freely call your husband ‘lord’ when you know that you are addressing the one who put him in charge and asked you to suffer at your husband’s hands just as our Lord suffered at the hands of unjust authorities…When you endure evil and railing without returning it, you receive a blessing, not just as a martyr, but as one who worships God.”

It seems the Pearls believe that a wife should submit to her husband, even if it means her death…and presumably, the death of her children.

[The narrative of the "enduring wife" shows up in other Christian literature in more subtle ways. I wish I'd had the time to write more about this. Perhaps at a later time.]

This is wrong. I cannot state it strongly enough: No act of abuse is justified by God, and no one is called to endure abuse out of a commitment to the Bible or to Jesus.

Why bring this to your attention? Because the Pearls are inexplicably popular in certain Christian circles, and abuse in the name of God must be spoken against.

If your church is considering using books by the Pearls as part of its curriculum, please say something. If you see friends or family employing their tactics, confront them. This is not simply a matter of different parenting methods or relationship styles—like Sears vs. Ezzo, or cloth diapers vs. disposable diapers, or complementarianism vs. egalitarianism—it’s a matter of abuse.

There can be no more beatings, no more deaths…especially not in the name of Christ.

Top City Homo posted:

without reading the article i am just going to post who i think it is

Say Nothing posted:

It looks like someone copy-pasted the same two faces over all the children.

Whole lotta Jim Bobs in that picture.

TheNinjaScotsman posted:

Nope that's the gay one

TheNinjaScotsman posted:

Nope that's the gay one

Vacation Tenzin posted:

Jinger is probably the oldest "probable gay"

I hope she escapes

I hope they all escape

Top City Homo posted:

u sure the gay one is not to the right?

they all look like jim bob to me now

the great deceiver posted:

did you just make that name up or is there really a jinger duggar

Jonny 290 posted:

SAVOR IT

Jonny 290 posted:

SAVOR IT

Jonny 290 posted:

SAVOR IT

Top City Homo posted:

Jill Dillard

Sammus posted:

Yal know the old saying "The closer to kin, the deeper it goes in" right?

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

The duggars use the Advanced Training Institute homeschool program from minister Bill Gothard


Here is a page on how they deal with sexual abuse in counseling setting



http://www.recoveringgrace.org/

bonvivant posted:

if abused was not at fault lol

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/



If the abused was not at fault...God has compensated physical abuse with spiritual power....

If you had to choose, would you choose no physical abuse, or being mighty in spirit?

bonvivant posted:

if abused was not at fault lol

crackton posted:

What in the gently caress.

Slut shaming? Check!

Enforcing learned helplessness for the victim? Check !

Forgiveness for rapist? Check!

Complete disregard of any underlying psychological causes leading the rapist to "act out"? Check!

I wonder if he'll ever do this again...

Nah, God won't let that happen, but if he does its probably for a good reason.

Gatekeeper posted:

that was the only line to pop out at me at first and i don't even want to read the rest of it because i know i'm gonna get sad