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Anyone familiar with Dante want to fill me in on what parallels Bedelia might have to Dante? Other than the fact that she's hanging around with the devil.
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Jun 6, 2015 02:07
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| # ? Nov 12, 2025 01:39 |
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The TV IV > Hannibal S3: Is it that kind of party?
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Jun 6, 2015 03:15
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Great episode to start off the season.
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Jun 6, 2015 03:17
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Hi Res spoiler pics for the next 2 episodes here Chiyoh (Tao Okamoto) who plays the former attendant to Hannibal's aunt looks beautiful. Wonder who the caged man is?
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Jun 6, 2015 03:38
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone familiar with Dante want to fill me in on what parallels Bedelia might have to Dante? Other than the fact that she's hanging around with the devil. I think Hannibal was showing comparisons between Bedelia and Judas, not Bedelia and Dante, but the line "observe or participate" tends to suggest the opposite. Dante only bore witness to the layers of hell, I don't think he was subjugated to them. In this interpretation, is Hannibal the physical interpretation of hell, and Bedelia must bear witness to the punishment he doles out to the
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Jun 6, 2015 03:47
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Maybe the question is whether she is Judas the participant, or Dante the witness there.
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Jun 6, 2015 04:22
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Noirex posted:I was wrecking my brain trying to figure out why Tom Wisdom looked so familiar and finally remembered he plays the Archangel Micheal on Dominion. Which in a show that is arguably about Lucifer is sort of fitting I suppose. Isn't it high time Lee Pace made a guest (or otherwise) appearance in Fuller's Hannibal, anyway?
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Jun 6, 2015 04:23
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Have they cast anyone for Barney?
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Jun 6, 2015 04:30
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SilentChaz posted:Those of us who love Chilton will have to wait until episode four to see everyone's other favorite doctor. According to Bryan Fuller. She saw Gideon with one arm?
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Jun 6, 2015 04:35
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seravid posted:Sure thing, boss. Very nice.
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Jun 6, 2015 04:54
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I'm surprised to learn Bryan Fuller's previous notable works only really include Heroes and Star Trek, and that the cinematographer doesn't even have a wikipedia page, because this show is aesthetically (and ethically) the most beautiful show I've ever seen.
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Jun 6, 2015 05:24
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and Dead Like Me
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Jun 6, 2015 05:28
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speshl guy posted:I'm surprised to learn Bryan Fuller's previous notable works only really include Heroes and Star Trek, and that the cinematographer doesn't even have a wikipedia page, because this show is aesthetically (and ethically) the most beautiful show I've ever seen. Wonderfalls and maybe Dead like Me also had some of that but not to the same degree.
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Jun 6, 2015 05:29
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Rocksicles posted:and Dead Like Me Fuller left Dead Like Me relatively promptly, and there is a genuine deficit between the episodes he shot and the ones after he departed in terms of how well they're shot. He left due to problems with MGM. It started when they demanded that George's father be straight (despite the fact that he's very clearly closeted in the pilot) and then they made him fire Rebecca Gayheart so that Laura Harris (who is prettier and blonder) could join the ensemble. He burnt out very fast because they were very particular about making it marketable and mainstream and nonthreatening despite the fact that Showtime was totally onboard with Fuller.
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Jun 6, 2015 05:56
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Noirex posted:Hi Res spoiler pics for the next 2 episodes here Spoiler:Looks like Hannibal is keeping dr. Fell alive. He's done it before and it allows him to ask him questions about his life. And Hannibal might actually like the guy (enough to not immediately eat him), why else impersonate him?
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Jun 6, 2015 08:28
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So, is it implied that Dimmond would blackmail Hannibal, and is that why he killed him? I think that based on the "observe or participate" dialogue, that Bedelia either revealed to Dimmond that Hannibal was a serial killer (and a cannibal) in between the scenes when they arrive at home and Hannibal attacks Dimmond, or Bedelia was behind Dimmond arriving on Florence in the first place... What did you get from that scene and dialogue? Also random recurring thought as I was watching the episode; I would watch the crap out of a Streetcar Named Desire version with Gillian Anderson as Blanche and Mads as Stanley, preferrably in Italian. (fake edit: and google says that apparently Gillian has already played Blanche in an award winning performance and quite recently she resumed that role for a short film prequel named "The Departure")
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Jun 6, 2015 08:41
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AbstractNapper posted:So, is it implied that Dimmond would blackmail Hannibal, and is that why he killed him? I think she's allowing Hannibal to do this poo poo because it might make him slip up and that's her only way at getting him caught without betraying him outright. She knows he's dangerous and it's safer for her to be by the devil's side.
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Jun 6, 2015 08:59
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Bedelia doesn't seem to be doing much beyond being paralysed by fear and going through the motions. With the exception of her facing a security camera hoping someone will be looking for Hannibal in some classy place he might like and recognize her. I understood Hannibal telling her to 'observe or participate', as him offering advice on how to cope with the situation: either psychologically depersonalize from the situation (which she did) or act in whatever way she wants to (help/escape/attack/...).
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Jun 6, 2015 11:32
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Is it just me or is Gillian Anderson like, hotter than ever
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Jun 6, 2015 12:41
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I was really impressed by Mikkelsen reciting a Dante sonnet in Italian. I dread to think how many takes it took, but it's pretty cool that they included that.
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Jun 6, 2015 13:50
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mortons stork posted:I was really impressed by Mikkelsen reciting a Dante sonnet in Italian. I dread to think how many takes it took, but it's pretty cool that they included that. Mads probably did that with not too much trouble -- he speaks five languages already -- and his pronunciation was pretty good. (Gillian Anderson didn't speak Italian nearly so well, but she was still comprehensible. Except, really, could it have killed someone to tell her that "grazie" has three syllables, not two?) On that note, here's a small effortpost on Dante. I'm not a Dante scholar, but I took a course in college on Dante from a Dante scholar, and last summer my dad and I read the Divine Comedy together in Italian. (I grew up speaking Italian at home -- my dad is from Italy.) This is the sonnet Hannibal recites in the episode, taken from Dante's La Vita Nuova / The New Life (the lines he speaks are bolded): quote:A ciascun'alma presa, e gentil core, Dante (always helpful, that guy  ) follows his poem by writing (Frisardi translation) :quote:This sonnet is divided into two parts. In the first part I offer my greetings and ask for a response; in the second part I indicate what ought to be responded to. The second part begins with, “Already nearly.” That somebody, whose understanding of Dante initiated their close friendship, was Guido Cavalcanti, whom Hannibal mentioned in the episode -- Dante's best friend and fellow poet in the revolutionary literary movement, the Dolce Stil Novo (the "sweet new style"). The Dolce Stil Novo was a new stage of evolution in Renaissance poetry: deeper, more intellectually refined, more spiritually aware. Hmm, could Hannibal be thinking of a parallel between Dante/Guido and himself/Will??? Dante and Guido wrote a lot of poetry both influenced by each other and to each other; Hannibal and Will did...whatever you would call the second season.  (The relationships aren't entirely parallel, as Cavalcanti was older than Dante and more his mentor than the other way around, at least at the beginning of their friendship. )As it so happens, Dante has no qualms in putting Cavalcanti's father -- Cavalcante de' Cavalcanti -- in Hell (canto 10 of the Inferno, the 6th Circle of Hell, the Circle of the Heretics). When Dante meets Cavalcanti Sr. in hell, they talk about Guido, whom Cavalcanti Sr. incorrectly assumes to be dead. (It should be said, IRL Guido died indirectly by Dante's actions. Long story short, Dante had voted to banish some people from Florence, and one of the banished was Guido, who was exiled to a place where he contracted malaria and died.) Speaking of Hell, when Hannibal lectures on Pier (Pietro) della Vigna in Canto XIII, it was interesting to me that he focused on the parallel between him and Judas. I don't know if this lecture is taken directly from Harris' novel, but usually the most salient feature discussed about della Vigna is that he appears in Hell as a man turned into a tree. (You'll remember the man turned into a tree on the show last season.) He is a tree whose soulless mortal body is suspended in his branches, and he can only speak when his branches are broken -- the branch breaks, and blood and his voice come out. The image is taken directly from an image from Virgil's Aeneid, but Dante infuses it with multiple layers of meaning -- one is that the tree can only speak when injured, just as a suicide can only communicate their pain through self-injury. So, personally, I saw this angle as the immediate connection between della Vigna and Bedelia -- she can only communicate her fear and despair through taking great risks with her life. (I've also seen episode reviews that get the last line of the canto, which Hannibal quotes in the lecture, wrong so here it is: "Io fei gibetto a me de le mie case," which means "I made my gallows out of my own house" (i.e., he hanged himself at home). Of course, Hannibal is also threatening her with the reference to Judas and death befalling traitors, but in Dante's Inferno, the traitors are in another circle of Hell -- the 9th, the very deepest. In a connection to the show that you all will appreciate, the traitorous souls in Hell eat each other. Judas (and Brutus and Cassius), as the worst traitors in history, have the honor of being devoured in perpetuity by Satan himself. If you're interested in reading the Divine Comedy yourself (or just the Inferno): there are dozens of English translations, and IMO, at this stage in time, the particular translation you use doesn't matter nearly as much as whether the translators have included copious and thorough footnotes. We used Robert Pinsky's translation of the Inferno in college and it was good; I also really like the Robert and Jean Hollander translations, which come with great footnotes. Other highly regarded translators that you can't go wrong with are John Ciardi, Dorothy L. Sayers, Allen Mandelbaum, and Charles Singleton. Here are some other online sources for the curious (and the obsessive, i.e., me  ):The World of Dante English verse translations next to Italian original) Divine Comedy translated into English prose Princeton University's Dante Project Columbia University's Digital Dante (commentary) DivineComedy.org (features 3 English translations, as well as German and Finnish, in case any of you are, you know, German or Finnish)  Digitized manuscripts of the Divine ComedyThe Divine Comedy is one of the Western Hemisphere's and maybe the World's greatest works of literature only in part because of the particular language he uses and his skill with it (the language that, btw, is why Italian is Italian -- when Italy was unified in 1871, the Florentine dialect was chosen as the national language expressly because it was the language of Dante) -- English translations may vary in their use of the language, but the content (should) remain the same, and it's the content that's so profound. Unfortunately, unless you are already an advanced scholar of Italian history and literature, Greek and Roman history/literature/mythology, Biblical studies, Catholic theology, numerology, etc. etc. etc., you need to either read the Divine Comedy with a Dante scholar next to you (or do Yale's Open Course on Dante online for free) or have a translation whose footnotes explain everything to you. And then you'll be like HOLY poo poo THIS GUY  at every verse, because he was clearly a human from the next stage of evolution, to accomplish all that.Kinda like Hannibal. 
Rabbit Hill fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 6, 2015 |
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Jun 6, 2015 15:45
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AbstractNapper posted:Why was I under the impression that that Hannibal had somehow convinced that guy (Quinto) to attack/ kill Bedelia (or maybe she was under that impression also and maybe that's why she attacked first ? ). Was that not a thing that was mention or heavily implied in the show and I imagined it? Last season she told Crawford that Hannibal persuaded her to kill the patient, is that what you were getting confused?
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Jun 6, 2015 16:23
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Hannibal took in the patient, made him more mentally unstable, and then recommended him to his own psychiatrist just to see what would happen, because he's Hannibal. Bedelia probably got down to the root of his problems and found a man who was so hosed up from Hannibal's intervention there was no rational way of dealing with him outside of taking matters into her own hands so she engineered that situation to make it look like she had to kill him in self defense, then falls into the same trap by accepting help from Hannibal to cover it up.
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Jun 6, 2015 16:38
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Rabbit Hill posted:Mads probably did that with not too much trouble -- he speaks five languages already -- and his pronunciation was pretty good. (Gillian Anderson didn't speak Italian nearly so well, but she was still comprehensible. Except, really, could it have killed someone to tell her that "grazie" has three syllables, not two?) I didn't know Mads spoke that many languages! Then that makes sense, at least, his pronunciation was pretty good. And yes, Gillian Anderson's Italian was cringe inducing, though I'd say it's thematically appropriate: she's in the thrall of a multilingual hyper-intelligent serial killer in completely unfamiliar territory, it makes sense that she wouldn't know much Italian at all, unlike Hannibal who is supposed to be, afaik, instantly excellent at everything he touches. Still, as a native speaker, it's kind of jarring at times when they start gratuitously inserting Italian into the script, so I hope they keep that to a minimum. And good effortpost on Dante, I'll see if I can dig up my old school textbooks and maybe I can contribute something as well!
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Jun 6, 2015 17:23
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i thought i recognised that corpse before the credits
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Jun 6, 2015 17:40
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"Here's a small effort post on Dante"
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Jun 6, 2015 17:50
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esperterra posted:Last season she told Crawford that Hannibal persuaded her to kill the patient, is that what you were getting confused? Hmm, maybe. I actually didn't remember this. I thought what probably happened was something along the lines that hope and vaseline describes. Also, in the "previously on" there was a scene where Bedelia talks to Hannibal and says that she doubts his actions with regard to her attack (or something like this). And about that same time (I think), or maybe later on, Hannibal sent that psychopath who acted like a wild animal to attack Will (which might be where the idea that Hannibal manipulated a patient to attack Bedelia came from).. This seems to be a thing that Hannibal does for funsies (in the movies too). Sending psychopaths after people he knows (hates, or otherwise). Still, I'll probably need to rewatch season 2.
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Jun 6, 2015 19:47
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Now I really hope Hannibal delves into Chinese culture/cuisine in a future season. It's the language/history I'm most familiar with and I would love to join in on these effort posts.  Plus ancient Chinese cuisine can be poncy as gently caress, involves plenty of creepy/bizarre ingredients (bear paws, duck tongues, live mice, brains, etc), is married to eastern medical philosophy (so very Hannibal) and there are also several stories I know of involving cannibalism and horrific brutality.
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Jun 6, 2015 21:03
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Refresh my memory: has Hannibal ever folded origami before this week's episode? The detail stuck out to me, and I wonder if it was a sort of nonverbal cue to the audience to subtly prepare them for the upcoming Lady Murasaki business. I know he's made references in passing to the character in previous seasons, but I thought it was a sly way for them to get viewers unfamiliar with the novels and new viewers accustomed to one of the nuttier parts of Hannibal's past.
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Jun 6, 2015 21:57
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AbstractNapper posted:Hmm, maybe. I actually didn't remember this. I'm sure it was a mix of playing both sides, and Bedelia may not even be fully clear on the events. We don't know how long Hannibal has been messing with her head.
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Jun 6, 2015 22:13
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ShadowCatboy posted:Now I really hope Hannibal delves into Chinese culture/cuisine in a future season. It's the language/history I'm most familiar with and I would love to join in on these effort posts. Those ingredients aren't weird. European cuisine is just wasteful. And tongue is delicious. I'd be amused if there was a Manchu Han Imperial Feast season. It would be 108 episodes long.
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Jun 6, 2015 22:44
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Here's the AV Club review of Antipasto. And here is the EW interview they mention.
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Jun 6, 2015 23:41
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It was kind of funny how the premier avoided anything that would answer questions from last seasons cliffhanger and then they run a preview that just up and spoils who survived.
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Jun 7, 2015 02:51
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I like that. It's refreshing to see a show where the emphasis is placed on everything except on worrying on who lives or dies.
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Jun 7, 2015 03:35
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muscles like this? posted:It was kind of funny how the premier avoided anything that would answer questions from last seasons cliffhanger and then they run a preview that just up and spoils who survived. Also, for anyone new to the series, many of its previews for the next episode(s) were filled with spoilers, giving away major plot points (eg deaths or return of important characters) and I can't remember if they were ever a fakeout.
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Jun 7, 2015 05:48
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muscles like this? posted:It was kind of funny how the premier avoided anything that would answer questions from last seasons cliffhanger and then they run a preview that just up and spoils who survived. Fuller really does not give a gently caress about spoilers. One of the reasons I love the guy.
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Jun 7, 2015 06:20
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I'm on board with the notion that the Gideon scenes were in Hannibal's mind palace. It was what I was assuming while I watched, especially since Gideon called the first dinner posthumous, said he couldn't be made to do anything anymore and then referred to Hannibal's "gingerbread house." Also, maybe I'm just seeing things here, but Hannibal really comes across as bitchy to me in the best, most hilarious way. After Will told him they weren't friends in the beginning of last season, every time Hannibal said the word "friend" seemed kind of petulant and pointed to me. Then he tells Bedelia in this episode that she doesn't have the right to ask him a question because she'd terminated their patient-psychiatrist relationship and she apologizes with this little air of "I should have known you'd go off on a snit like this." Noirex posted:I was wrecking my brain trying to figure out why Tom Wisdom looked so familiar and finally remembered he plays the Archangel Micheal on Dominion. Which in a show that is arguably about Lucifer is sort of fitting I suppose. I immediately checked for this thread after watching the episode for exactly this reason. I knew I'd seen him somewhere, he was just hard to place. Probably because he has a loving personality here. I was a little sad to see him go.
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Jun 7, 2015 07:10
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Fuller really does not give a gently caress about spoilers. One of the reasons I love the guy. To be fair, it's not like those would have been season-long mysteries or anything. There are plenty of spoilers that he keeps close to his chest, he just understands that not every little story beat has to be kept quiet. Like how last season we knew pretty early on from previews that Jack was going to fight Hannibal, but not why, when, or exactly how it would happen.
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Jun 7, 2015 07:11
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Ansiktsburk posted:I'm on board with the notion that the Gideon scenes were in Hannibal's mind palace. It was what I was assuming while I watched, especially since Gideon called the first dinner posthumous, said he couldn't be made to do anything anymore and then referred to Hannibal's "gingerbread house." The guy has already lost his leg and knows he is in Hannibal's clutches and will be dead eventually. That is what he meant by posthumous. They were just flashbacks.
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Jun 7, 2015 07:15
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| # ? Nov 12, 2025 01:39 |
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Ansiktsburk posted:Then he tells Bedelia in this episode that she doesn't have the right to ask him a question because she'd terminated their patient-psychiatrist relationship and she apologizes with this little air of "I should have known you'd go off on a snit like this." I read that differently -- that was the moment when she first showed fear. IIRC, the moment of her apology is when she starts to get tears in her eyes.
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Jun 7, 2015 12:13
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