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The show isn't trying to do anything narratively, the last two episodes were basically setting up the season, one episode for each main character. What's ballsy is spending two drat hours in introductions when you're getting <1 ratings. Sometimes I can't believe this show exists. It really seems designed for a Netflix distribution model, because asking a network audience to sit through two episodes of weird dreamlike horror before anything actually happens is crazy.
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Jun 13, 2015 16:06
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Periodiko posted:The show isn't trying to do anything narratively, the last two episodes were basically setting up the season, one episode for each main character. What's ballsy is spending two drat hours in introductions when you're getting <1 ratings. Sometimes I can't believe this show exists. I'd rather see Fuller keep to his vision and be cancelled than alter it to please a wider audience.
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Jun 13, 2015 16:13
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At this point, given it's NBC I'm just hoping they don't loving cut the show completely halfway through the season and then we never get to see most of the Red Dragon stuff or whatever next season would be (presumably not-Silence).
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Jun 13, 2015 16:42
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Doesn't Hannibal do well outside the US?
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Jun 13, 2015 16:46
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Lugaloco posted:Doesn't Hannibal do well outside the US? I don't know about that, but I have heard about how it being an international co-production makes it way cheaper for NBC. Also, apparently a large chunk of Hannibal's audience is wealthy, and advertisers like that.
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Jun 13, 2015 16:55
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BreakAtmo posted:I don't know about that, but I have heard about how it being an international co-production makes it way cheaper for NBC. Also, apparently a large chunk of Hannibal's audience is wealthy, and advertisers like that. Don't I remember reading that almost the whole thing is financed privately by the De Laurentiis family?
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Jun 13, 2015 17:11
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This article from last year explains it fairly well.quote:Founded in 1895, Gaumont is the oldest movie studio in the world, with half-year revenues in 2013 topping $170 million (up from $108 million in the first half of 2012) [...] Back in 2011, GIT entered the U.S. television market with a bang, scoring a straight-to-series order on NBC for Hannibal [...]
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Jun 13, 2015 17:43
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I am pretty sure this is it for Hannibal on NBC. They will let the season play out. Then based on the dismal ratings and lack of any ad revenue and decide to cancel. Then it will be picked up by Netflix or someone. Hopefully Netflix so we can binge on season 4.
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Jun 13, 2015 18:31
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Waltzing Along posted:I am pretty sure this is it for Hannibal on NBC. They will let the season play out. Then based on the dismal ratings and lack of any ad revenue and decide to cancel.
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Jun 13, 2015 18:41
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I hope none of you people are the same people who kept posting about how it was sure to be canceled because of low ratings during season 1.
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Jun 13, 2015 20:00
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To be fair to them, season 1's ratings were better
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Jun 13, 2015 20:29
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Hopefully it'll be like The Wire and they'll just keep airing it because it's very good regardless of ratings.
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Jun 13, 2015 20:41
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EmmyOk posted:Hopefully it'll be like The Wire and they'll just keep airing it because it's very good regardless of ratings. This is definitely possible, apparently it costs NBC about as much as a talk show. (Be more likely if it got a few Emmy nominations, but let's not hold our breath)
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Jun 13, 2015 20:43
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No show is more contrary to the netflix model and low-processing binge-watching than this show. That said, I'll still suck Netflix's cock if it keeps this show on the air in the U.S.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:05
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Entropic posted:I kind of miss the police procedural stuff to be honest. I liked it when it was a weird cop show that was shot like an art film rather than actually just being a weird art film. Me too.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:06
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I think I'm going to withhold judgement until I see more episodes since the whole point of these first two was to establish what Will and Hannibal have been doing since the end of season 2.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:04
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Kawabata posted:I'm Italian, and it doesn't mean that. Commendatore literally stands for "knight commander" (same as in english I suppose). It's a very old title and I'm pretty sure it can still be bestowed by the President of the Republic, though it didn't make much sense in the episode. You'd never say "buonanotte commendatore" to anyone. Thank you for setting me straight. When would it ever be appropriate? Is it strictly archaic now? Is it something a person might say in jest? As you said, most of the spoken Italian seemed very well done so it's interesting if this phrase is out of place.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:06
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EmmyOk posted:I loved these two episodes, I'm surprised to hear they are unpopular with current fans. I loved these last two episodes but I am not even slightly surprised they're unpopular. That said I'm okay with this being the final season as long as Hannibal ends up captured (and hopefully de-mystified, transformed into something mundane by defeat) and Fuller continues to do whatever the hell he wants with the direction.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:20
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InfiniteZero posted:
One of the policemen telling Graham he shouldn't be there was very obviously someone completely unfamiliar with Italian and was especially jarring. I really hope they don't insert too much gratuitous Italian in the future unless it's spoken by a main character or someone with at least basic competence. Apart from that, commendatore used to be a term for an individual held in high esteem quite a long time ago, then it took a somewhat negative connotation, became associated with an ostentatious fat cat stereotype - 'cumenda' in Milanese - and has all but disappeared from common use by now.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:31
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How was Mads' Italian in episode 1?
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Jun 13, 2015 22:32
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I thought commendatore was a reference to Don Giovanni: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1_vm0FMAU There's even a connection with dinning!
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Jun 13, 2015 22:48
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mortons stork posted:One of the policemen telling Graham he shouldn't be there was very obviously someone completely unfamiliar with Italian and was especially jarring. I really hope they don't insert too much gratuitous Italian in the future unless it's spoken by a main character or someone with at least basic competence. In light of that, maybe A) Will Graham is a much more pretentious hipster than we realized or B) He was trying to make some kind of point of respect to Pazzi. He's doing something stupid, pursuing Hannibal, but it's the kind of stupid that Will can respect. And there is something old fashioned in how Pazzi has been brooding about Hannibal for twenty effing years.
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Jun 14, 2015 02:05
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So I was having a really lovely day, but it got instantly better when I got home: 
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Jun 14, 2015 04:29
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I think part of the reason Hannibal is staying on is that while it doesn't have an American audience, it's doing well in international markets I believe. Specifically Korea. Edit: And in a worst case scenario, I think Hannibal's fans can summon enough money on Kickstarter to keep the show going for a few seasons. And arguably we don't have too much further to go as we already are entering... Red Dragon with Dollerhyde, probably being resolved in the Season Finale. So really we have like 2 seasons for Silence of the Lanbs, Hannibal, and whatever Fuller thinks of the ending. Shadoer fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 07:20
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Shadoer posted:
I'm pretty sure it'll just be SOTL and the new ending. This first half of S3 is their heavily-retooled Hannibal adaptation.
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Jun 14, 2015 08:09
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EmmyOk posted:How was Mads' Italian in episode 1? Impressive. HIJK posted:In light of that, maybe A) Will Graham is a much more pretentious hipster than we realized or B) He was trying to make some kind of point of respect to Pazzi. He's doing something stupid, pursuing Hannibal, but it's the kind of stupid that Will can respect. And there is something old fashioned in how Pazzi has been brooding about Hannibal for twenty effing years. Will definitely is expressing a certain deep kind of respect to a guy who has managed to hold a grudge for 20 years and is now pursuing his own certain ruin to exact vengeance. After all, he's just spent a full year manipulating and scheming to do the exact same thing, getting himself into a world of hurt in the process. That must hit close to home.
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Jun 14, 2015 08:41
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mortons stork posted:
It didn't feel like respect to me. I thought the tone of voice sounded mocking. With now knowing what he actually said, I think Will was calling this man by a archaic fluffed up title to undercut that Pazzi is hilariously out of his depth and is just fodder for hannibal.
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Jun 14, 2015 10:33
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I think Will's "I forgive you" could be interpreted as self-forgiveness and a need to just get on and do his job the best he can. I don't think it's about God, Will doesn't believe in God in that way but he's in a giant shrine to Saint Peter and has followed the path of Peter: Peter's a fisherman who gives up his job to follow a higher calling. (Boat fixer, fisherman as a hobby) He's the one disciple to correctly identify Jesus as the Messiah. (First to guess Hannibal's real self) He witnesses the transfiguration. (Witnesses Hannibal's work as the Chesapeak ripper, hidden/copycat crimes and mentoring of serial killers) He tries walking on water but falters. (His encephalytis represented by water) In Gethsemane, while Jesus is torn about what's going to happen to him, crying tears of blood and praying,Peter falls asleep repeatedly. He doesn't grasp the hugeness of what's about to go down, he doesn't see and hear the signs... or maybe he does but is in denial, maybe he's just human. (Doesn't forsee the massacre at the end of season 2) Roman soldiers turn up to take Jesus to trial for blasphemy before the Jewish Council, Jesus follows them peacefully but Peter whips out a blade and lops a soldier's ear off - which could have got them all killed except Jesus put the ear back. (Abigail is his weak spot) While he'd been warned that he'd betray his friend Jesus, while he's hanging around the court waiting for news he denies three times that he's got anything to do with that Jesus fellow. (Trying to play Hannibal and getting caught: Freddie's perfume, the trap with Jack, not going with Hannibal) Hannibal sees himself as Christ betrayed by Judas in Du Maurier, by Peter in Will Graham. What's very interesting is what happens next to Peter, he picks himself up from that place of shame and becomes a rock for his fellow disciples, testifying of the nature of Christ to crowds at Pentecost. If Will CAN forgive himself, he's going to rally himself to his task, lift up his FBI friends and he's on the path to exposing Hannibal's true nature to the world.
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Jun 14, 2015 13:54
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I liked the first episode a lot but this last one was just dull.
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Jun 14, 2015 14:28
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The first two episodes have had such a pleasingly weird dreamlike vibe to them.
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Jun 14, 2015 15:27
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If the show is canned after this season, I don't think I'd like to see it come back on Netflix or whatever streaming service. One reason is that working within and against the limits of a network is part of what imbues the show with its form and gives the people making it something to bounce off. I don't think they'd just go completely nuts if they moved into a place with laxer content rules, but in some ways it would be like a sonneteer losing their verse formatting conventions. The second reason is that Red Dragon is a good endpoint to all the characters and plotlines we've been introduced to, and Silence or not-Silence would almost definitely feel like a weird and unnecessary redoubling. I half suspect cramming Dragon into this season is an attempt to get that closure for when the series is inevitably scuttled. And I guess, nota bene, I say all this as someone who feels like the last two episodes could have been easily combined. They both seem intended to ground the main characters for the beginning of the season while showing the instability and self-doubt that arises from prolonged Hannibal influence, but while the first was a novelty, the second felt unnecessary. That is, I loved the first episode, but the second -- even with some stunning visuals -- felt like thin gruel. The indulgence or arguably overindulgence of the fantasy-sequences again suggests the crew is just going for broke, doing what they can and what they want before the show ends.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:22
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WastedJoker posted:The first two episodes have had such a pleasingly weird dreamlike vibe to them. Season 2 gave me episodes about losing time. Season 3 is giving me nightmares about seeing people who aren't there. This loving show 
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Jun 14, 2015 17:08
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:If the show is canned after this season, I don't think I'd like to see it come back on Netflix or whatever streaming service. One reason is that working within and against the limits of a network is part of what imbues the show with its form and gives the people making it something to bounce off. I don't think they'd just go completely nuts if they moved into a place with laxer content rules, but in some ways it would be like a sonneteer losing their verse formatting conventions. I'm fine with it wrapping up in three, but I think there are some interesting ideas in a Silence adaptation. The idea of a Clarice Starling character solving the case, with Will Graham and Hannibal Lecter as characters secondary to the case is intriguing.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:25
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The monster of Florence is a real life uncaught and probably still alive serial killer, and for this show to suggest that his crimes were ~works of art~ committed by a glamorous young Mads Mikkelsen is by about ten thousand miles the worst-taste moment of this drat show. They could have at least made it "the monster of Venice" or something, drat.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:29
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:If the show is canned after this season, I don't think I'd like to see it come back on Netflix or whatever streaming service. One reason is that working within and against the limits of a network is part of what imbues the show with its form and gives the people making it something to bounce off. I don't think they'd just go completely nuts if they moved into a place with laxer content rules, but in some ways it would be like a sonneteer losing their verse formatting conventions. This succinctly describes my feelings on all of the topics addressed, particularly people constantly begging for the show to be picked up elsewhere. The show being on NBC has forced some impressively creative work-arounds, which are what make the show interesting from a simple TV standpoint. I honestly don't see what could be gained other than losing the hovering threat of maybe-cancellation. Speaking of, we're only two episodes in - I'm pretty sure they'll air the full season, it's only 13 episodes, so perhaps there's no need to post after every bad ratings report about how it's totally getting canceled. I'm most excited to see Red Dragon, whenever it may show up, as that is my favorite of the Thomas Harris stories and I am very interested to see how they'll handle it, especially since they've used so much of it already in other forms. I felt that the second episode is actually part of that - I was waiting for them to reveal that the entire episode was Will hallucinating/dreaming, not just bits of it, because he's pretty clearly lost the wall between his hallucinations and reality. And that's actually not a bad thing to establish going into Red Dragon, because while the show gave him encephalitis to explain his hallucinogenic oddities in season 1, in the books he is just straight-up that way with no outside explanation. What did everyone think of Pazzi? His gruff non-emotion was driving me nuts and I was convinced that he must be a hallucination, because I've never said to myself "wow this person is acting badly, as an actor" while watching this show and it would've made sense if Will was just seeing him as the stereotypical gruff detective man in his own mind. I did not like Pazzi  Leonard Pine posted:The monster of Florence is a real life uncaught and probably still alive serial killer, and for this show to suggest that his crimes were ~works of art~ committed by a glamorous young Mads Mikkelsen is by about ten thousand miles the worst-taste moment of this drat show. They could have at least made it "the monster of Venice" or something, drat. Two things here - 1. I didn't realize this was a real thing, ugh, and 2. I actually thought that this was Pazzi getting something wrong. I don't know why, but to me Will seemed dismissive of his theory that Il Mostro was Hannibal, which made me think it was a way of showing that Pazzi and Will were not alike because Pazzi was wrong about his hunch. Admittedly, this could've just been influenced by my general dislike of the character at all. Also, where is Bedelia, Hannibal? Did you eat her? Wiggy Marie fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 18:11
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Leonard Pine posted:The monster of Florence is a real life uncaught and probably still alive serial killer, and for this show to suggest that his crimes were ~works of art~ committed by a glamorous young Mads Mikkelsen is by about ten thousand miles the worst-taste moment of this drat show. They could have at least made it "the monster of Venice" or something, drat. "Il Mostro" was taken from the movie/book, except it was a janitor and not Hannibal. The janitor and Hannibal have a serial killer flirtation where (I think) Hannibal approaches him and says he admires his work. The name "Il Mostro" was taken from the case but it was just a reference and had nothing to do with the real life killings.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:18
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Browsing "Monster of Florence" on Wikipedia. Interesting thing... The Il Mostro case was a series of murders and nobody is sure if it was one person or several. Every time they got a suspect, someone would get killed by the same MO, exonerating the suspect. Kind of like Hannibal freeing Will from prison. It also seems the real Il Mostro had a habit of targeting lovers, so the TV series is pretty clearly tying Hannibal to Il Mostro. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 18:34
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Steve Yun posted:Browsing "Monster of Florence" on Wikipedia. Yeah, and it's also important to remember that Thomas Harris is a massive true crime reference user and so this is likely an entirely intentional direct reference, even in the book.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:42
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King Vidiot posted:"Il Mostro" was taken from the movie/book, except it was a janitor and not Hannibal. The janitor and Hannibal have a serial killer flirtation where (I think) Hannibal approaches him and says he admires his work. The name "Il Mostro" was taken from the case but it was just a reference and had nothing to do with the real life killings. Disagree. Harris sat in on the initial trials in Florence and talked to a lot of the people involved (even based Pazzi on one of the policemen) during his research for the book Hannibal. Just because Harris semi-fictionalised the case in his book first doesn't make it sit any better with me. Like in the Hannibal ep the monster killed lovers in fresh air as well and arranged the bodies (because he was a perv and targeted people who went outside to bone, not because of any art reference). Considering Roberto Benigni's comedy Il Mostro at one point was Italy's highest grossing film (Benigni gets mistaken for the serial killer, hilarious hijinks ensue!) the Italians probably don't care, but I still think Fuller could have thought it through better. EDIT: Source for all this is The Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi by the way, a controversial book but a really great read with many Harris/Hannibal references, the Anthony Hopkins film version had just been shot in the city while Preston was researching it and people were pretty excited about it. Leonard Pine fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 18:44
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I dunno what investment you guys have in the real life Il Mostro case, but myself I have none and so I feel the same way about it as the Amadeus film making GBS threads all over the real Antonio Salieri's name for the purposes of drama.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:44
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