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Valeyard posted:I've yet to watch Hannibal but thought it was really good and popular and just heard about it getting cancelled; what gives? You answered your own question in the first part already. Valeyard posted:I've yet to watch Hannibal The ratings were god awful.
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Jun 23, 2015 11:34
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Dr Dozzy posted:I'm a little confused, I understood that NBC licensed the show from Gaumont, to broadcast in the US? Given that the show is shown Internationally, and is more popular outside of the US, why would NBC dropping it prevent Season 4? I've only found one article that really explains the funding structure so far, here it is. Basically: Gaumont produces it, and it is paid for by Gaumont and 'five to ten' other companies, including to some degree "several broadcasters across Europe" including AXN (a Sony property which has channels worldwide, across Asia and South America as well as Europe); DeLaurentis Co; and NBC. No one has reported on the actual proportions involved, but the general number I've seen thrown around is that, with the co-funding, it costs NBC about as much as a panel talk show. quote:while the U.S. studio tends to have one partner -- the U.S. broadcaster -- we spread the risk across various partners around the world. We combine a low U.S. license fee with an international prebuy and international tax incentives. NBC dropping it doesn't NECESSARILY prevent season 4. However, they were a significant enough contributing partner that they will need to be replaced. Most of the articles I've seen about the cancellation don't seem to have any inkling that Hannibal isn't a typically produced show with a single distributor, which is a little weird but not too surprising, since this model is really new. showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 12:15
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I'm glad Hannibal isn't too challenging, otherwise I probably wouldn't watch it. It's a great show with fantastic production values, fantastic performances and incredibly tense plotting (well, maybe not so much this season) but it keeps inspiring people to make incredibly bad posts about how terribly cultured and intelligent they are for enjoying this sublime work of art (for example, the intensely stressed and near suicidally reckless character is often seen drinking, This loving Show ...) 0 rows returned posted:A while back Canadian hard science fiction writer Peter Watts took a trip to the special effects company (Mindwarp) that does the uh body art for Hannibal, and wrote a blog post about it with plenty of pictures, you can read it here if you want (you should): http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=5729 This is insanely cool btw, there's no way I'd have believed that was purely practical effects. I wonder if it's going to be a recurring image like the Wendigo, from it's malformed, frail appearance I got the impression it's more aligned with Will, kinda like a runtish infant serial killer monster?
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Jun 23, 2015 12:22
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I'm glad Hannibal isn't too challenging, otherwise I probably wouldn't watch it. It's a great show with fantastic production values, fantastic performances and incredibly tense plotting (well, maybe not so much this season) but it keeps inspiring people to make incredibly bad posts about how terribly cultured and intelligent they are for enjoying this sublime work of art (for example, the intensely stressed and near suicidally reckless character is often seen drinking, This loving Show ...) I agree with you. "I have to eat him" was so B-Movie for such an artistic show. Season 2 reminded me of the 'A Series of Unfortunate Events' books I read as a kid. Where Will is the Baudelaires trying to convince everyone this one guy is evil, and despite it being insanely obvious everyone refuses to believe him. Condemning people and their 'Bourgeois sensibilities' made you sound like a jerk, but considering the above post I will assume that was 
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Jun 23, 2015 12:33
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poo poo, one of the things that bothered me the most about the Season 2 plotting (and that on reflection is so very A Series of Unfortunate Events) was how Hannibal always got away from everything. Any time a lead came that could possibly incriminate him, it was disposed of and quickly forgotten about. The most egregious example of this for me was that one woman who had been captured, then got hypnotized by Hannibal to kill the one person who could possibly incriminate him (why was she allowed a gun in the interrogation room?). It just got wearying after a while that Hannibal always ended up like the Road Runner, getting away every single time for no other reason than to stretch out the plot.
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Jun 23, 2015 12:58
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EmmyOk posted:Condemning people and their 'Bourgeois sensibilities' made you sound like a jerk Hear hear. (adjusts pantaloons while sipping from a brandy snifter)
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Jun 23, 2015 13:24
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Too many people involved for NBC alone to tank the show. ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2243973/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt#akas ) If we have to watch season4 with german or korean subtitles from some dodgy streaming website then so be it. quote:#FuckyouNBC is beginning to trend on Facebook The twitter campaign is #SaveHannibal and there's a petition here: https://www.change.org/p/nbc-netflix-what-are-you-thinking-renew-hannibal-nbc Ha! Netflix is fully aware of the demand: https://twitter.com/crazyformf/status/613317739311050753 n3wt fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 13:53
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EmmyOk posted:I agree with you. "I have to eat him" was so B-Movie for such an artistic show. Season 2 reminded me of the 'A Series of Unfortunate Events' books I read as a kid. Where Will is the Baudelaires trying to convince everyone this one guy is evil, and despite it being insanely obvious everyone refuses to believe him. Condemning people and their 'Bourgeois sensibilities' made you sound like a jerk, but considering the above post I will assume that was Nah I meant what I said; the highbrow element of the show really seems to be overblown by people trying to show how sophisticated and continental they are when as you say, it has in large part been a pretty straightforward black comic farce. There's references to classical art and literature and whatnot but nothing that really holds up the viewer's understanding of the plot or character motivations, season 3 granted has been far more abstract and heavy on the classical references but at this point in time I'm not sure that's been a great direction for the show. (I've got an effortpost in me somewhere about how Hannibal (the character) gets a soft touch because he commits his atrocities whilst retaining an air of haute couture sophistication but I don't think that's ever seeing the light of day) Xanderkish posted:poo poo, one of the things that bothered me the most about the Season 2 plotting (and that on reflection is so very A Series of Unfortunate Events) was how Hannibal always got away from everything. Any time a lead came that could possibly incriminate him, it was disposed of and quickly forgotten about. The most egregious example of this for me was that one woman who had been captured, then got hypnotized by Hannibal to kill the one person who could possibly incriminate him (why was she allowed a gun in the interrogation room?). It just got wearying after a while that Hannibal always ended up like the Road Runner, getting away every single time for no other reason than to stretch out the plot. My biggest hope for the series before it finishes is that once Will completes his weird spiritual journey through Europe, he manages to dispel Hannibal's aura of infallibility and reality comes crashing down. We've seen hints of that already with Hannibal snapping and stabbing professor guy in the head out of spite, it'd be cool if he became more and more frayed the closer Will is to confronting him
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Jun 23, 2015 13:54
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n3wt posted:Too many people involved for NBC alone to tank the show. ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2243973/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt#akas ) I've ... I've signed an online petition, what is wrong with me?
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Jun 23, 2015 13:57
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In case anybody missed it the first time I posted this (in an edit, in a shrunken link in a tweet, so you know...I forgive you  ):quote:Sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that there may have been a rights issue at the center of the decision to end the series as Fuller had wanted to introduce Clarice Starling in season four, with the rights to the character previously portrayed by Jodie Foster said to be unavailable. E: One of the comments on that article -- quote:True they are trying too hard to be artistic, and its getting way too philosophic as well I don't know how many times this has to be said but  IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ARTISTIC AND PHILOSOPHIC. And THE BOOK WAS LIKE THAT, TOO.
Rabbit Hill fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 13:58
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There's really nothing to that "rights issue" rumor. The show could continue indefinitely without ever getting into Silence of the Lambs. It was bad ratings, pure and simple.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:05
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Rabbit Hill posted:And THE BOOK WAS LIKE THAT, TOO. Yeah, practically every one of the most pretentious scenes or lines is cribbed straight from the books. Like that mic-drop Dante recitation in the first episode, or the line about hearing the sound of water in the womb, etc.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:07
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I can't wait till cable TV dies. Usher in the on demand era and leave all the old people behind. Give them one channel that plays nothing but police procedurals.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:20
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Nah I meant what I said; the highbrow element of the show really seems to be overblown by people trying to show how sophisticated and continental they are when as you say, it has in large part been a pretty straightforward black comic farce. There's references to classical art and literature and whatnot but nothing that really holds up the viewer's understanding of the plot or character motivations, season 3 granted has been far more abstract and heavy on the classical references but at this point in time I'm not sure that's been a great direction for the show. (I've got an effortpost in me somewhere about how Hannibal (the character) gets a soft touch because he commits his atrocities whilst retaining an air of haute couture sophistication but I don't think that's ever seeing the light of day) I'll save you some time with my own brief effortish post: the novels localize the high culture in the character of Hannibal, and it's telling they completely fall apart as he becomes more central and less mysterious. Maybe the most important way the show adapts Harris' novels is that they are familiar potboiler genres that use a passing but fairly competent engagement with so-called high culture (or the production of a kind of "high culture-effect") to set themselves apart from their nearest cousins (police procedurals and airport fiction, respectively). The show additionally ups its ante by aiming for a self-consciously symbolic, impressionistic ("artistic") style in an effort to negotiate the tension in the novels between gritty criminal fiction and campy "Hannibal is basically Dracula in all but name" melodrama. The novels run off the rails as we move closer to the person of Hannibal himself and that high culture-effect becomes both an operating principle of the world (like, say, a Dan Brown novel) and also severely hilarious, since Hannibal basically has a goddamn superhero origin story. Because the show plays both ends of the canon against each other, as it were, it synthesizes those tensions between horror and melodrama in a new way and we get a kind of sinister magic realism campiness that, when it works, works really well (to the effect that even though it's campy and weird its emotional payoff for the audience is not tinged by irony), and I think is really unique and cool.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:35
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:the show plays both ends of the canon against each other, as it were This is a great way of putting it. I've just read the first three books (might pick up Hannibal Rising for completeness even though I know it's really bad), and it's striking that the character of Hannibal in the show, with his over-the-top tastes and incredible knowledge and creepy fixation on In Red Dragon, Hannibal is creepy and smart, but not a supervillain. He's only supposed to have killed like nine people (in later books they make it clear that he was only CHARGED with nine murders, but that was not the intention in Red Dragon itself).
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Jun 23, 2015 14:51
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Right from the beginning this show always felt like a 2-3 season thing, and I think its for the best. Mads is amazing but his Hannibal would wear thin after a while, certainly it would if the show went on for something ridiculous like the 8 seasons Dexter got. I'd much rather have 3 seasons of an amazing ride, be able to buy them in a very nice blu ray set, keep them on my shelf and just let it be what it was.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:59
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Basebf555 posted:Right from the beginning this show always felt like a 2-3 season thing, and I think its for the best. Mads is amazing but his Hannibal would wear thin after a while, certainly it would if the show went on for something ridiculous like the 8 seasons Dexter got. I'd much rather have 3 seasons of an amazing ride, be able to buy them in a very nice blu ray set, keep them on my shelf and just let it be what it was. You're literally so wrong it's off the loving charts. Unlike Dexter, there was an ACTUAL plan in place for Hannibal.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:04
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Deakul posted:You're literally so wrong it's off the loving charts. My fault for invoking the Dexter name, I should have known that would produce an emotional response. I meant it only in the sense that the Dexter character was very interesting for several seasons, but after a certain point it was just the same old poo poo.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:09
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:I'll save you some time with my own brief effortish post: the novels localize the high culture in the character of Hannibal, and it's telling they completely fall apart as he becomes more central and less mysterious. This is a really good post and sums up what I like about the show really well. It'll be interesting to see if they change up the surreal visuals once Hannibal is caught, so far the show's yanked them up more and more as people get closer to Hannibal, once their main conflict is over there won't be (for a while) quite so much reason for anyone to be hallucinating about folk-demons or black pools of ink.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:21
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Deakul posted:You're literally so wrong it's off the loving charts. The original plan was for 6 or 7 seasons, and there's no way people wouldn't have gotten sick of the show if it lasted that long. poo poo, people here and everywhere else where the show's loved already wouldn't stop complaining about the first two episodes of this season, and we aren't even 2.5 full seasons in.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:30
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A Steampunk Gent posted:My biggest hope for the series before it finishes is that once Will completes his weird spiritual journey through Europe, he manages to dispel Hannibal's aura of infallibility and reality comes crashing down. We've seen hints of that already with Hannibal snapping and stabbing professor guy in the head out of spite, it'd be cool if he became more and more frayed the closer Will is to confronting him As an aside, I love the idea of this being some "weird spiritual journey" Will is on. Like traveling to Eastern Europe and making Corpse-mobiles is his way of getting in tune with his inner self. But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing Hannibal's aura getting dismantled more and more as the season progresses. Like you said, his haute couture sophistication and his air of invulnerability makes him seem sexier than his deeds would suggest, and watching that get torn town is something I would freaking get popcorn for. In my headcanon, Hannibal's veneer of high-culture is just an ego-masturbating tactic he uses to convince others--and himself--that he's somehow bigger, better, and more impressive than your run-of-the-mill serial killer. Like how in the last episode Hannibal used his sister being killed and eaten as a way to convince others he had some tragic backstory when in reality he was the one who killed and ate her, it lets him live in a world that makes him more important than he actually is. H.P. Shivcraft posted:I'll save you some time with my own brief effortish post: the novels localize the high culture in the character of Hannibal, and it's telling they completely fall apart as he becomes more central and less mysterious. I think another thing that helped keep Hannibal's character not ridiculous in Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs--and which made him more ridiculous in Hannibal--was that there was always a restraint on the excess of his character--namely that he was in prison for most of the story. Not only did that limit the appearances of his character and keep his mystique up, but it gave Hannibal a weakness that in a weird way humanized him. Hannibal could seem as creepy and intelligent and philosophical as he wanted, because at the end of the day, he was still just a serial killer in jail. No one had to question how Hannibal could be as ridiculous and weird as he was without being imprisoned because as it turns out, being ridiculous and weird did get him imprisoned. Outside of jail, Hannibal makes less sense because he somehow keeps evading authorities despite being obviously creepy as gently caress and leaving a trail of half-eaten people wherever he goes. He has to become superhuman in order to keep acting in ways that would get anyone else arrested. That's how it's been working in the TV show too; sometimes the only reason he evades capture is either because of the stupidity of the authorities (how was he able to get out of the country after killing one person and nearly killing three others FBI members in his own house?), by using editing to hide the fact that he's practically teleporting imperceptibly from place to place, or by having some weird power (like his ability to use hypnosis to wipe the memory of his captured victim and turn her into a sleeper agent to shoot the one person who could incriminate him oh god that sounds stupid). I feel like him being in jail also helped make him more sinister and dangerous in the story, and in a way that didn't have to rely on him being super powerful, but on other people underestimating him. As long as he was in jail, people thought they were safe and he couldn't hurt them, which allowed him to take advantage of them without them realizing it. He was creepy and powerful not because he was superhuman, but because people kept underestimating just how manipulative and depraved he actually was. If people refused to talk to him and kept him under maximum security at all times he'd just be a powerless, cannibalistic schmuck. Hell, the only reason he escaped in Silence of the Lambs was because he smuggled a makeshift lockpick in his mouth and no one expected him to wear another dude's face. No super-strength, super-intelligence, or editing magic needed. Edit: vvv Also that. Xanderkish fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 15:38
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Hannibal in jail works really well in the books because it allows your imagination to run wild. His introduction in Silence of the Lambs is amazing, both in the book and the film, it really sets him up as a terrifying presence. The way such extreme measures are taken to keep him contained, contrasted with his seemingly sophisticated and dignified personality, it leads you to imagine what horrific things he was up to when he was free. The reality is never as shocking or disturbing as what you can conjure up in your own imagination.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:44
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If you haven't gone back to watch(rewatch) Red Dragon, both the tv show and the movie are so true to the characters and story. Except the TV series shows Will as a hannibal-like smart flawed character while in the movie Will is more of a smart everyman.
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Jun 23, 2015 16:07
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Don't watch Red Dragon, it's awful. Watch Manhunter instead.(and revel in its 80s-ness)
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Jun 23, 2015 16:15
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I actually like Red Dragon quite a bit, but Peterson's Will Graham in Manhunter is truer to the character from the book and I think Dancy's version takes it even further. Norton didn't take it far enough.
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Jun 23, 2015 16:15
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There's a Shakespearian quality to TV Hannibal that I really enjoy. It's kind of like in Othello where Iago creates this alternate reality for poor Othello out of sheer spite. But it was unsustainable: Desdemona dies, Othello snaps to, and Iago is arrested. Hannibal will also be arrested and his alternate reality will also come crashing down on him. The interesting bit to me is seeing how long he can keep up the shell game.
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Jun 23, 2015 16:19
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Basebf555 posted:I actually like Red Dragon quite a bit, but Peterson's Will Graham in Manhunter is truer to the character from the book and I think Dancy's version takes it even further. Norton didn't take it far enough. I thought Red Dragon was too sanitized, just something about it felt like the director didn't know how far to take it and opted for making it play out as a super fast paced flashy summer movie.
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Jun 23, 2015 16:34
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HIJK posted:There's a Shakespearian quality to TV Hannibal that I really enjoy. It's kind of like in Othello where Iago creates this alternate reality for poor Othello out of sheer spite. But it was unsustainable: Desdemona dies, Othello snaps to, and Iago is arrested. I wonder how. In this reality Hannibal can kill and replace a prominent scholar while being a hunted serial killer without having to make any effort doing so.
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Jun 23, 2015 16:36
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Deakul posted:I thought Red Dragon was too sanitized, just something about it felt like the director didn't know how far to take it and opted for making it play out as a super fast paced flashy summer movie. You've encapsulated Brett Ratner's entire career in one sentence. I agree for the most part, but every time I see Red Dragon I become more and more convinced it was Ed Norton that is primarily responsible. He's just too bland and not interesting at all, and Ralph Fiennes blows him out of the water. Peterson and Noonan were a much better combination because Peterson held up his end.
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Jun 23, 2015 16:49
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Deakul posted:I thought Red Dragon was too sanitized, just something about it felt like the director didn't know how far to take it and opted for making it play out as a super fast paced flashy summer movie. Basically because Brett Ratner has no style of his own, he only mimics others. With Red Dragon, he was doing his best to emulate what Demme did with Silence of the Lambs; X-Men: The Last Stand was a look-and-feel copy of X2; The Family Man is Ratner trying to be Capra so hard that it hurts; After the Sunset is trying to do what Soderbergh did with Ocean's Eleven ... so on and so forth.
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Jun 23, 2015 17:01
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So it looks like they're trying to get it picked up by Netflix. I really hope that succeeds; frankly it sucked trying to watch on NBC.com because the page kept constantly crashing and there were like ten minutes of ads per five minutes of show.
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Jun 23, 2015 17:07
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Astrofig posted:So it looks like they're trying to get it picked up by Netflix. I really hope that succeeds; frankly it sucked trying to watch on NBC.com because the page kept constantly crashing and there were like ten minutes of ads per five minutes of show. Huh. I wonder how that's going to play out with their current deal with Amazon to be the exclusive streaming service. Maybe some weird Frankenstein-type thing where Amazon will have seasons 1-3 and Netflix only gets new content?
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Jun 23, 2015 17:09
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Basebf555 posted:My fault for invoking the Dexter name, I should have known that would produce an emotional response. Yeah I uh... I miss season one of Dexter. :|
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Jun 23, 2015 17:10
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Astrofig posted:So it looks like they're trying to get it picked up by Netflix. I really hope that succeeds; frankly it sucked trying to watch on NBC.com because the page kept constantly crashing and there were like ten minutes of ads per five minutes of show. Those commercials were so obnoxious. During the last episode there was literally like one scene between commercials.
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Jun 23, 2015 17:13
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Do you guys have Adblock? That blocks all of the advertisements for me.
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Jun 23, 2015 17:15
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Basebf555 posted:You've encapsulated Brett Ratner's entire career in one sentence. Ralph Fiennes and Emily Watson both did a fantastic job in Red Dragon. Richard Armitage is a terrific actor but I'm still skeptical if Rutina Wesley can pull off Reba McClane. She wasn't that great in True Blood.
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Jun 23, 2015 17:18
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Read the book Red Dragon, it's a really quick read and you'll enjoy the many quotes they blatantly repurposed for the show. There's been a campaign to get Hulu, Amazon, and Netflix's attention, and so far it seems like Netflix has been the most receptive. And apparently some of the people manning the customer service chatline are fans as well (and/or have been encouraged to act like fans): 
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Jun 23, 2015 17:19
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A Steampunk Gent posted:A character drinking alcohol under stress? This show really is something else!! Sure it's nothing original, but c'mon, it's funny
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Jun 23, 2015 17:44
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:I'll save you some time with my own brief effortish post: the novels localize the high culture in the character of Hannibal, and it's telling they completely fall apart as he becomes more central and less mysterious. First principles, H.P. Shivcraft. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature?
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Jun 23, 2015 17:54
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Xanderkish posted:As an aside, I love the idea of this being some "weird spiritual journey" Will is on. Like traveling to Eastern Europe and making Corpse-mobiles is his way of getting in tune with his inner self. To the Corpsemobile!  ... Welp, that's all I got.
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