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Goofballs posted:Yeah how do you know where he is was kind of dumb, like Europe is a few villages and you can just check out the local shops and pinpoint a person. The book, as I recall, had a bit more in depth view at the stuff Verger was doing to track down Hannibal. It's a fairly legit method: most people who go on the lam change location but not their habits. And Hannibal's got some really specific habits. With tons of money, it's quite feasible to track down someone like that, if you have a bit of luck.
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Jul 3, 2015 08:55
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't think I like this show anymore, it feels like it disappeared up its own rear end this season. I don't follow the thread because it's a whole lot of fanboyism and I was close to calling it on the show too, until this episode. Up until Hannibal finally losing it was just never ending smug success taken to excess. Jack beating him down gave it a brief shot in the arm.
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Jul 3, 2015 10:31
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't think I like this show anymore, it feels like it disappeared up its own rear end this season. Completely agree, I loved the first 2 seasons and this one has been disappointing.
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Jul 3, 2015 13:33
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I always thought Bloom knew Hannibal fancied Florence, so she started there and looked for the pattern.
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Jul 3, 2015 13:53
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wins.
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So many good laughs in this episode. And watching Jack kick Hannibal's rear end was so unbelievably cathartic.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:00
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't think I like this show anymore, it feels like it disappeared up its own rear end this season. I'm not gonna lie, that's been part of the appeal of this season. It's incredibly weird how self-involved the show has gotten, and that's somehow just incredibly charming for me to watch. I can't imagine someone who was channel surfing catching the first episode of the season and going "yeah, I want to watch this!" - it was just impenetrable for a new viewer. The show doesn't care if a viewer is off-balance, and in fact pretty much wants people to be confused as to the reality of situations, and that's. It's weird and I love it. Watching a show go from slightly pretentious police procedural/serial killer drama to, uh ... 80's art house film set in Italy? Amazing.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:18
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So anyone have any ideas for why Will's special Nakama threw him off the Loved Jack's scene. Two seasons of Hannibal getting everything he wants with a loving cherry on top makes seeing him get the poo poo kicked out of him almost worth it, plus the ending where he falls off of the detective's body was a nice way to tie the scene up (although you'd think Jack would be able to follow the wounded guy trailing blood everywhere but magical realism I guess). The rest of the episode kind of blurs together though. Between Jack having the pointless dinner with the detective and the Hannibal-Bedelia power couple reiterating that IT'S EITHER KILL OR BE KILLED HANNIBAL, I feel like this show could have used some more interesting scenes. How are Will's dogs handling his absence, for example? vvv: Oh, good point. Good for her, I think? Xanderkish fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 14:23
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Xanderkish posted:So anyone have any ideas for why Will's special Nakama threw him off the She wised up that Will is manipulating her just as Hannibal had done and that if she wants Hannibal dead, better to do it herself than leave the job to an emotionally unstable man that's half in love with the idea of running away with the man he's supposed to kill.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:31
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I do miss Michael Pitt as Verger - he was such a live wire in that role.
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Jul 3, 2015 15:14
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I have a feeling the resolution of this arc if going to be Will realising violence is't the answer and refusing to kill Hannibal (hopefully without killing Jack either) Non the less, that beating was was the most satisfying piece of TV I've seen in a while. The show knew Hannibal had that coming and delivered it perfectly
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Jul 3, 2015 15:15
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Wiggy Marie posted:So many good laughs in this episode. And watching Jack kick Hannibal's rear end was so unbelievably cathartic. That reminded me of the fight from They Live, except it was completely one-sided. And also loving hilarious/amazing.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:06
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There were some Red Dragon references(more like foreshadowing I guess) in this episode that I haven't seen mentioned yet. When Jack is having dinner with Pazzi and Pazzi tells him that he looks at his wife and sees the things that he wants to give her, Jack responds "How you wish to appear in her eyes." I'm certain this is a reference to Dollaryde's habit of shoving shards of glass in his victims eyes so that he'll see his own reflection in them. Then later, when Will and Chiyoh are on the train they spend some time talking about what Will is "becoming", which is a term Dollarhyde uses over and over to describe his "transformation" into the Red Dragon.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:07
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Basebf555 posted:Then later, when Will and Chiyoh are on the train they spend some time talking about what Will is "becoming", which is a term Dollarhyde uses over and over to describe his "transformation" into the Red Dragon. They've probably used the word 'becoming' in 80% of the episodes of the entire show - it's a recurring theme they keep hitting.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:20
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showbiz_liz posted:They've probably used the word 'becoming' in 80% of the episodes of the entire show - it's a recurring theme they keep hitting. Maybe but in this particular scene the word "becoming" and "transformation" are used repeatedly to the point where I don't believe its a coincidence considering that the Red Dragon storyline is kicking off in a few episodes.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:22
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el oso posted:I do miss Michael Pitt as Verger - he was such a live wire in that role.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:33
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Wiggy Marie posted:So many good laughs in this episode. And watching Jack kick Hannibal's rear end was so unbelievably cathartic. It was, but Hannibal gets his rear end so thoroughly kicked in this episode, he's starting to seem sloppy, and his plan of "drawing his enemies to him" seems purposeless and dumb. Alana pretty much figures out where he is right away, he stands in the open in a room full of pointy things and gets sneaked up on. He only escapes because Jack is dumb and pushes him onto a rope hanging out the window and then stares instead of running after the dude with the broken arm and leg (but really because Will needs to be the one to capture him). He should be dead or captured right now. We don't need to see Hannibal pull a win out of his rear end against incredible odds yet again, but since it turned out no one important died last season, Hannibal seems way less dangerous (vs important characters) this season. So the "how are the good guys going to outwit the devil" question is starting to seem moot, and we know Hannibal isn't going to die even if Mason does get his hands on him, so that's another source of dramatic tension gone. I hope whatever remaining episodes in the "Hannibal gets captured" storyline isn't just going to be Hannibal loving up and getting his rear end kicked by all his enemies one by one (who themselves gently caress up and let him escape), no matter how satisfying it would be to see Alana ram that cane up his rear end. TOOT BOOT posted:I don't think I like this show anymore, it feels like it disappeared up its own rear end this season. I think visually it looks great, but yeah the scenes of Chiyoh and Will talking nonsense on the train didn't work for me. It seems like stalling. emoticon fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 17:55
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Jonas Albrecht posted:JACK ATTACK Seriously cathartic after like 5 weeks as smug-as-gently caress Hannibal murdering half of Florence.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:06
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Basebf555 posted:Maybe but in this particular scene the word "becoming" and "transformation" are used repeatedly to the point where I don't believe its a coincidence considering that the Red Dragon storyline is kicking off in a few episodes. It's not that it's a coincidence - it's that they explicitly took the theme of 'murder = becoming' from the Red Dragon book and have employed it throughout the series, mostly in reference to Will. So the scene in this episode is part of a greater through-line of the series. I've actually been meaning to go through and collect these for a while: 1.04 Will (to Hannibal) "Sometimes… I felt like we were doing the same things at different times of day… like I was eating… or showering or sleeping at the same time he was." "Even after he was dead?" "Even after he was dead." "Like… you were becoming him." "I know who I am. I'm not Garret Jacob Hobbes, Doctor Lecter." 1.06 Angelmaker (to Will, re turning him into an angel): "I will give you the majesty of your Becoming." 1.11 Abel Gideon (to Will): "If I kill her... like he would kill her... I wonder if I could understand him better." [turns into Garret Jacob Hobbs] "I wonder if then you would finally understand who you’ve become." 1.12 Hannibal (to Jack) "Will said he got so close to Garret Jacob Hobbs and what he had done, he felt like he was becoming him." 1.13 Hannibal (to Will) "If you followed the urges you kept down for so long, cultivated them as the inspirations they are, you’d become someone other than yourself." 2.02 Hannibal (to Muralist) "God gave you purpose. Not only to create art, but to become it." 2.09 Hannibal (to Will, re his failure to kill the social worker) "You must adapt your behavior to avoid feeling the same way again." Will "Adapt. Evolve. Become." 2.09 Hannibal (to Jack, re MechaFurry) "Your killer could have built a bridge between who he appears to be and what he now knows he's become." 2.09 Hannibal (to MechaFurry) "You are becoming, Randall, and this beast is your higher self. Your bodies, voices and wills are one. Revel in what you are." 2.10 MechaFurry (to Will, re his own mutilation) "This is my becoming... and it's yours." 2.13 Hannibal (to Will) "Do you know what an imago is, Will? [...] It's the final stage of a transformation. Maturity." Will "When you become who you will be." 3.05 Will (to Chiyoh) "In the gnawing sameness of your days... did you look at the shape of things? At... what you were becoming?" "I wasn't becoming anything. [...] I'm not as malleable as you are." 3.05 Chiyoh (to Will, re Hannibal) "If you don't kill him, you're afraid you are going to become him." And of course, this one doesn't contain the word itself, but it underscores the whole theme: 2.09 Hannibal (to Will) "With all my knowledge and intrusion, I could never entirely predict you. I can feed the caterpillar, whisper through the chrysalis, but what hatches follows its own nature and is beyond me." showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 18:27
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If you're the kind of guy who's big into snails this is probably the best show you could be watching.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:30
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From start to opening credits I was unreasonably bored and un-engaged with the slow, over-enunciated meanderings that really didn't add anything we didn't already know. All these metaphors and I guess this is all these characters ever talk about? A mundane conversation about coffee or the local water pollution level would feel refreshing at this point. This is coming from a big fan who has been following this series since episode one. It was just draggggggging. Laughed at the backflip, but he couldn't stick the landing, 2 points. The fight was amusingly done catharsis, tongue-in-cheek and almost to the point of breaking the fourth wall in how it was approached. Anyone else disappointed by the gutting? First of all they set up this torture mask used on his ancestor.. that doesn't get used on him, which would have been perfect. And I guess 'disemboweling' someone by vertically cutting from sternum to pelvis results in completely severing about 10 feet of intestine and a blob of stomach? Considering the show's use of explicit gore it felt like censorship or something. I honestly feel the movie version of that particular scene was better. Oh and the shots of the smoke in the beginning of the ep were neat. And I'm not sure if it's something with the actor, or the heavy accent, or the dialogue, but whatsherhead trying to do slow 'my feelings this Hannibal that me whatever' is completely falling flat for me. Especially juxtaposed with Will who's delivery is the only thing that makes such dialogue even work on the screen. It's kind of hard to articulate just why it's completely missing the mark, at least to my viewing experience. Justin Credible fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 18:31
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Justin Credible posted:It's kind of hard to articulate just why it's completely missing the mark, at least to my viewing experience. I think it may have been a misstep to cast someone with such a strong accent. Mads can pull it off, and I thought the guy who played Pazzi did a fine job, but this dialogue is too stylized for it to sound natural unless you're a really good, emotive, natural-seeming actor, and adding a relative lack of comfort with English can't possibly help. Chiyoh's actress just doesn't come across like she totally buys the things she's saying. Granted, she IS supposed to have been almost completely alone for a couple decades, so perhaps she's meant to seem unnatural?
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Jul 3, 2015 18:44
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Yeah, I'm not overly fond of Chiyoh's delivery either. Her scenes with Will this week lacked some kind of spark that seems to come naturally between most other cast members. It's pretty cool though how this Europe mini-season has analogues of people important to Hannibal. Will and Dimmond, Jack and Pazzi, Alana and Chiyoh. By the rate they're dropping though... hope and vaseline fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 18:51
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Justin Credible posted:It's kind of hard to articulate just why it's completely missing the mark, at least to my viewing experience. Had the same exact thought watching it up until the end. After thinking about it for awhile I just decided it's because it's the same old thing again and again. Sooo much of the dialogue and even the shots just seem completely meandering or rehashed conversations. Showbiz_Liz cataloging every instance of 'becoming', while not what they were talking about, is related. At first I debated to myself thinking "well all this stuff existed in the first two seasons so why now?" and it's just getting repetitive as hell. showbiz_liz posted:Granted, she IS supposed to have been almost completely alone for a couple decades, so perhaps she's meant to seem unnatural? She has the exact same delivery of lines in The Wolverine. Just a bad actress. Don't cast models in serious dramatic roles.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:57
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It's weird when the guy with no lips is the easiest character to understand.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:58
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This was an awesome episode although the Will/Chiyoh stuff was a bit slow. At least it ended in Will doing a sick backflip. Jack was amazing this episode and Pazzi was dumb. I love Jack basically being Hannibal for the fight. Moving around all sneaky with his shoes off and creepily putting some music on unseen by Hannibal. I guess Hannibal gets caught next episode but does Will get there in time? They have to meet up one last before Hannibal goes behind bars.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:02
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Justin Credible posted:From start to opening credits I was unreasonably bored and un-engaged with the slow, over-enunciated meanderings that really didn't add anything we didn't already know. All these metaphors and I guess this is all these characters ever talk about? A mundane conversation about coffee or the local water pollution level would feel refreshing at this point. This is coming from a big fan who has been following this series since episode one. It was just draggggggging. I seem to remember the characters used to have normal conversations. Like they'd just talk about plot and poo poo and it wasn't all "Sometimes snails do this." "Yes, but often birds will do this (I am the bird, Hannibal is the snail everyone get it?)" Still, Jack threw Hannibal an awesome beating, so good episode. I'm so bummed that this show just outright died so quickly. I'd heard so much about international financing and a bunch of options if NBC didn't want to air it, and then it gets cancelled and everyone takes different jobs the next day. Like no one put up a fight for it.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:07
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I think one problem with this season (though I do still like it overall, and am on board for the self-indulgent artsy crap) is this: the show is fundamentally about the relationship between Will and Hannibal, and as of now, they have had zero scenes together in five episodes that didn't take place in flashback.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:07
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PostNouveau posted:I'd heard so much about international financing and a bunch of options if NBC didn't want to air it, and then it gets cancelled and everyone takes different jobs the next day. Like no one put up a fight for it. This isn't really accurate - they're still actively in talks with other broadcasters, and the actors have all expressed a willingness to continue with the show. The articles currently saying it's dead because of the actor contracts issue are purely speculating. As of yet, it's still very possible the show will get picked back up. Not definite, but possible.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:09
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showbiz_liz posted:This isn't really accurate - they're still actively in talks with other broadcasters, and the actors have all expressed a willingness to continue with the show. The articles currently saying it's dead because of the actor contracts issue are purely speculating. As of yet, it's still very possible the show will get picked back up. Not definite, but possible. Sweet! Glad to hear it's not all doom and gloom.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:11
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Ha! Speaking of the dialogue:quote:Interviewer: Bryan also admitted that he loves to give you the most over-the-top, overwrought Thomas Harris dialogue because he knows you can sell it, no matter how purple the prose is. How do you feel about those unwieldy bits of dialogue when they appear in your scripts?
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Jul 3, 2015 19:17
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"Spitters are quitter and you don't seem like a quitter." Couldn't believe that made it to air. E: \/ \/ \/ woops Waltzing Along fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 19:36
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Waltzing Along posted:"Spitter or quitter and you don't seem like a quitter." Spitters ARE quitters 
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Jul 3, 2015 19:38
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el oso posted:I do miss Michael Pitt as Verger - he was such a live wire in that role. Why did they change actors? Was Pitt not available or not wanting to put the prosthetic on? Pages ago someone compared Mason looking in the mirror to 1989 Joker looking at the mirror. I like that, espeically since Michael Pitt seemed to channel Heath Ledger joker in his performance.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:44
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Waltzing Along posted:"Spitters are quitter and you don't seem like a quitter." Yet the graphic disembowelment and hanging of a police office merits no comment.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:46
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PassTheRemote posted:Why did they change actors? Was Pitt not available or not wanting to put the prosthetic on? Pitt didn't want to stay, never gave any reason AFAIK but he's supposedly terrible to work with if the rumors are true.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:49
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PassTheRemote posted:Why did they change actors? Was Pitt not available or not wanting to put the prosthetic on? There's no official word, but rumors abound that he's not easy to work with. Could also be the makeup thing, though he presumably would have known that was coming when he signed up.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:51
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Am catching up but just got to the phrase " Spitters are quitters", this retelling of Hannibal is excellllent. Well that was just all kinds of an awesome episode. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 20:44
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showbiz_liz posted:I think one problem with this season (though I do still like it overall, and am on board for the self-indulgent artsy crap) is this: the show is fundamentally about the relationship between Will and Hannibal, and as of now, they have had zero scenes together in five episodes that didn't take place in flashback. It'll probably make it more powerful when they do finally see each other again. They did have ONE scene together in the third episode, when Will was asking Hannibal about his mind palace (though they weren't physically together, it was new dialog). They're really building up suspense of exactly what Will is going to decide to do when he meets up with Hannibal again. Kill him, make out with him, join him, etc. I'm looking forward to it!
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Jul 3, 2015 21:03
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I loved Chiyoh's three scenes this episode. She nails the ethereal, threatening vagueness as well as Gillian Anderson does, and (especially in the first train scene) gets some good, purple lines. It was almost amusing to see Will ineffectively paraphrase things that Hannibal told him after he killed GJH.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:10
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At a guess, Will is going to go ridiculously far down the rabbit hole (which is going to be amazing to watch), and the Red Dragon half of the season will show him the folly, or at least how pathetic it is, of his..."becoming" someone who isn't an equal to Hannibal in any way, which seems like the death of their friendship.
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Jul 3, 2015 22:57
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