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Pascallion posted:I don't know what it is, but the fact that he supposedly eats a real, famous painting just destroys my suspension of disbelief. I can't remember the specifics but I'm pretty sure Red Dragon goes into a lot more detail about how he cons his way into being allowed to examine the painting. I think he's been going back and forth with that woman over the phone for a good while.
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Aug 13, 2015 19:33
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Basebf555 posted:I can't remember the specifics but I'm pretty sure Red Dragon goes into a lot more detail about how he cons his way into being allowed to examine the painting. I think he's been going back and forth with that woman over the phone for a good while. I think it goes down basically the same way in the book as it did in the show, except that Will isn't there - they just find out about it later and realize it must have been him. Also D escapes by ditching the suit and donning a jaunty tennis outfit.
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Aug 13, 2015 19:41
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Basebf555 posted:Of course maybe all that could be used to set up a major surprise if they divert from Red Dragon in an unexpected way, but so far that hasn't happened. I would be shocked if it doesn't. There have been a few hints that Will's ultimate fate might not be quite as bad as in the novels (like Molly pushing him to go solve murders, instead of hoping he won't), plus it's hard to tell what will happen to Hannibal when most of what happens to him in the books has already been mined and transformed into events that precede Red Dragon, instead of coming after.
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Aug 13, 2015 19:49
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It's important to remember that when this was all written and shot, they didn't know they were gonna be cancelled (though they probably figured the odds were pretty good). So whatever happens won't be so final that it would have precluded a fourth season.
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Aug 13, 2015 19:55
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Hannibal is gonna bust out and kill the Red Dragon to save Will even though he was the one who gave him Will's address and they'll elope finally.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:09
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^burtle posted:Hannibal is gonna bust out and kill the Red Dragon to save Will even though he was the one who gave him Will's address and they'll elope finally. I was actually thinking something along those lines. Red Dragon spoilers: Maybe they'll go the Manhunter route for the death of Dollarhyde, then have Hannibal escape ala Silence of the Lambs, and he's the one that shows up at Will's house instead of Dollarhyde.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:14
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So why did Hannibal have to call Chilton to get Will's address? He's been to his home. Lots.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:23
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Steve2911 posted:So why did Hannibal have to call Chilton to get Will's address? He's been to his home. Lots. Will and Molly live in a different home. It's not the one Will lived in before the time skip.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:27
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L_Harrison posted:Will and Molly live in a different home. It's not the one Will lived in before the time skip. Oh really? I can't believe I didn't realise that. Some of the external shots looks like the exact same area.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:28
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Also Hannibal tried to eat Will and I'm preeeeeeety sure that crossed the line even for Will
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Aug 13, 2015 20:29
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Sorry for the delay on this, I didn't have a chance to rewatch the episode until today. First off, personal impressions: - I like Bedelia's "you're not a killer" motif with Will. She's making a good point - she could exist with Hannibal because she was capable of seeing and allowing the things he did in full crazy psycho mode. Will wasn't, and is therefore scarred from the experience. Essentially, Will has a conscience, and Bedelia has to pretend she does. I really liked this as a payoff for this character because for me, Bedelia has always seemed insanely predatory. The way she slowly circles people, and takes her time speaking, makes me think of a not-so-friendly cat. Has anyone mentioned how obviously this was not at any point self-defense? Because that was what she told Will initially and man, she was never in danger from poor Mr. Spock. That's my interpretation, anyway! - I love how they're handling Dolarhyde's internal monologue - entirely through his physical performance. That's pretty impressive, and also doesn't push the actor into shrieking angrily at the nothing around him. A nice detail. - I don't care how fake the tiger looked, that's my favorite scene in Dolarhyde's entire story and they did it justice here. This was the point in the story where I actively started to want Dolarhyde to succeed in the goal he comes up with at this point, and live a happy life with Reba, because I started to actually like the guy under the monster. The beautiful colors were great. And once again, the way they're shooting this story made me see something I hadn't before - that Reba is interacting with this powerful being and leaves the experience unscathed is part of what inspires Dolarhyde to give it a go with her, and later try to restrain himself. More on that later! Ok, changes. I'm not going to spoil, as usual: - Dolarhyde and Lecter never talk in Red Dragon, but this scene does use something we haven't seen otherwise yet: when Dolarhyde is feeling more like the Dragon, he's able to enunciate and pronounce certain consonants, because part of the Dragon's power is that he can overcome the human husk's limitations - such as a lisp. It's heavily implied in the book that his lisp is entirely imagined because of his own crippling lack of confidence in himself, hence Hannibal's "real and imagined" line about his disabilities. - Let's talk briefly about Bedelia: she doesn't exist in the book, at all. She is entirely a construct of the show, like the killers outside of Hobbs, Lecter and Dolarhyde. This means that all of her interactions are unprecedented, and her relationship with Lecter as well as Will is pretty interesting. Will in particular seems to hate her because of her ability to resist Hannibal's influence, which makes me wonder about her future role in the show. Bedelia trivia: Fuller originally wanted Angela Lansbury to play her (Murder She Wrote). Lansbury was unavailable. - The tiger scene: One of the things Reba talks about the first time Dolarhyde is in her house cramming pie into his face (still makes me laugh) is that she lost her sight at an early age, and she did see a big cat once in the zoo. She talks about how she's tried to hold on to that image, but that it probably looks nothing like the actual animal anymore. This is what inspires Dolarhyde to take her to see the tiger. - How does Dolarhyde get into the zoo? Well, the film he grabbed earlier really was for the zoo, and they let him bring Reba as a favor in return for the film. - In the book, Dolarhyde is mostly quiet during this scene as he desperately tries not to cream his pants right there in the room. Instead, the doctors working on Mr. Tiger are the ones guiding Reba through her tour of the tiger's body. She feels every part. EVERY part. Dolarhyde can barely stand it. - Back at the house, Dolarhyde tells Reba he has some "homework" to do for work. Said homework is watching a video of the next family he's chosen (particularly the woman) and fantasizing about how he can't wait to introduce them to the Dragon. So hot! - Reba does indeed reward D with a blowjob, although S&P probably fought to make this the shortest one ever. Notable: when she's done and she says "I hope I didn't shock you," Dolarhyde is shocked more by her living voice because he hasn't been with a living woman yet. Sexy! - Dolarhyde does not hallucinate her as his woman clothed in the sun, but the experience certainly makes an impression on him. Sidenote: I freaking loved that change, and I really wish they'd gone all out and made him appear as the Dragon to complete the inversion on the original image, with the woman in the position of power instead. Ah well, in his mind that's how it went at least. - Dolarhyde panics when he wakes up because he's worried she might've found something in the house that made her leave and/or call the police. Later, he has an outright argument with the Dragon over whether he can "keep" Reba. The Dragon is implied to have won, but Dolarhyde has a plan to win the ultimate victory over the Dragon. Which brings us to... - That delicious painting. So, Dolarhyde has an entire separate persona who has been in contact with the library as a researcher, much like the show. This is the persona he uses to get in to see the Blake painting. He knocks out the lady who takes him and another employee who walks in - importantly, not killing them, which I believe Alan Bloom is able to correctly interpret as him trying to stop. One of the more recent readers, is that right? - Will does not show up and interrupt his delicious meal. Dolarhyde eats the painting in great big gulps (hence the gulps in the show - laughed like I did with the pie), leaves, changes into a track suit and jogs off. Our vicious murderer, everyone. I laughed when poor Will was flung about. Oh Will, just go home. Nothing ever ends well for you when you're around murderers. You truly haven't leaned your lesson. - Hannibal's call to get Will's new address is pretty similar to the book. He basically flirts it out of the secretary. The difference is, Hannibal still despises Will. He gets the address because he feels Will was rude to him during their interaction, and he wants to punish him. One of Hannibal's first thoughts after getting the address is to send Will a colonoscomy bag, for old time's sake. Considering the difference in their relationship here, I'm curious to see where they go. We already know that Dolarhyde can call Hannibal directly to talk with him. Hmmm... Dolarhyde's phone skills were a nice call-back to episode one, murder one, where Dolarhyde had tapped the family's phone. He knows his way around phone systems. There's other details I'm not touching on yet because I'm not sure if they'll come up later, so they'd be spoilers now. Sorry again for the wait! Hope this is still enjoyable 
Wiggy Marie fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 13, 2015 |
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Aug 13, 2015 23:33
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Are you sure it was Dolarhyde that performed the murders in the first episode? I thought the two families were the only victims in the book, besides the occasional animal.
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Aug 14, 2015 01:59
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My main concern is that we're going to get a grimdark ending. Manhunter had a happy ending (no psych talk). Red Dragon had (with psych talk) a fake out bad then happy ending. I'm afraid from the clues he's been dropping that that Fuller is going to go psych empathy + Will 'crushes the weak bird' becoming evil (not just defending himself from mechabear) route and end scenes will be Hannibal gloating, maybe a montage of the damage wreaked around him on all our main characters. My favourite ending would be psych empathy talk, Will choosing to help the weak bird, Dolarhyde either kills the dragon by shooting himself or gets locked up as Chiltons new exhibit 'the tooth fairy' and Hannibal goes "Mediocre!". n3wt fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 02:17
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Wiggy Marie posted:Has anyone mentioned how obviously this was not at any point self-defense? Because that was what she told Will initially and man, she was never in danger from poor Mr. Spock. Not only that - throughout season 1, she was consistently lying to Hannibal about what happened with the patient. She repeatedly says, in private conversations with Hannibal, that the patient attacked her. I think that right up until Will was imprisoned, she genuinely thought that Neil was actually mentally ill and that therefore Hannibal hadn't done anything wrong with regard to him - not up until the moment he agreed to 'help' her by lying for her, anyway. And I think she then began to figure out that letting Hannibal help her cover up a murder came with a lot of weird creepy strings attached, but it was only when Will started accusing Hannibal of exactly the same things Neil had accused him of that she realized Neil was probably completely sane the entire time, and that therefore Hannibal was a much more skillful manipulator than she had ever dreamed. And that Hannibal had probably been Inceptioning her to kill in their therapy sessions (see: "You were Dr. Lecter's psychiatrist, he wasn't yours." / "I told myself that, but I was under Hannibal's influence.") I know that this COULD all be a total retcon, but it works: as far as she knew, Hannibal simply happened to find her in a compromising position with a dead patient, and in order to protect herself she lied to him, saying "he attacked me" when really, that's not even close to what happened. So throughout season 1, Bedelia thinks she snapped and murdered an innocent but crazy man, and she thinks that Hannibal thinks she was defending herself and lost control. showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 02:27
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quote:- Dolarhyde and Lecter never talk in Red Dragon, but this scene does use something we haven't seen otherwise yet: when Dolarhyde is feeling more like the Dragon, he's able to enunciate and pronounce certain consonants, because part of the Dragon's power is that he can overcome the human husk's limitations - such as a lisp. It's heavily implied in the book that his lisp is entirely imagined because of his own crippling lack of confidence in himself, hence Hannibal's "real and imagined" line about his disabilities. quote:Bedelia trivia: Fuller originally wanted Angela Lansbury to play her (Murder She Wrote). Lansbury was unavailable.
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Aug 14, 2015 02:32
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Finale pic in the link (not really plot spoilers but linked just in case) http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/hannibal/gallery3/gallery13/hires/10.jpg
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Aug 14, 2015 03:42
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Hahaha Alana taking his toilet. "I keep my promises too" 
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Aug 14, 2015 04:11
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That poo poo was intense. I REALLY thought Fuller took dark turn when Dolarhyde showed up at Will's house.
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Aug 14, 2015 05:05
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Spoiler about tonight: there's slow motion water Edit: I'm amazed that the phone call was as intense of an action scene as the murder attempt. Wow. Edit: I'm really liking the deviatioms from the source material Edit: This episode if full of some long, uncomfortable conversations and they're great Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 06:16
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Trudis posted:Are you sure it was Dolarhyde that performed the murders in the first episode? I thought the two families were the only victims in the book, besides the occasional animal. The very first murder was Dolarhyde's, and you're right: it's not in the book. Fuller made it Dolarhyde's first because reasons I suppose. Perhaps as a way of assuring fans of RD that it would come later.
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Aug 14, 2015 09:49
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I'm with you that the murder definitely gave me red dragon vibes and as a fan of the books the show really hooked me when I saw Will do something onscreen convincingly that neither movies even really attempted, but to me it was always just another case that Will was brought in on and that they never really return to after getting into Hobbs.
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Aug 14, 2015 10:32
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There's this guy at DeviantArt who does Face Morphs with the free software SqirlzMorph and some Photoshop editing. Amazing stuff. I thought you might get a kick out of this one:
mcbexx fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 10:53
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I thought Hannibal's snarky "how did you think we were communicating? Through personal ads and letters written on toilet paper?" was one of the funniest things on the show and a wink to anyone who has seen / read the other material
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Aug 14, 2015 11:29
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mcbexx posted:There's this guy at DeviantArt who does Face Morphs with the free software SqirlzMorph and some Photoshop editing. Amazing stuff. I thought you might get a kick out of this one: I wondered what a murder husbands love child would look like.
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Aug 14, 2015 12:59
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All of those are fantastic.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:38
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Wiggy Marie posted:- Dolarhyde and Lecter never talk in Red Dragon, but this scene does use something we haven't seen otherwise yet: when Dolarhyde is feeling more like the Dragon, he's able to enunciate and pronounce certain consonants, because part of the Dragon's power is that he can overcome the human husk's limitations - such as a lisp. It's heavily implied in the book that his lisp is entirely imagined because of his own crippling lack of confidence in himself, hence Hannibal's "real and imagined" line about his disabilities. In the book he continues to speak with the lisp because he used to speak with a lisp due to a cleft palate. But even after having corrective surgery, he continues to lisp because he doesn't have the confidence to speak without crippling self-consciousness. The book says he speaks a little quieter when trying to say "S"s or "TH"s.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:17
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Watching now LEAVE HIS FAMILY ALONE HANNIBAL YOU poo poo e1: I feel like I'll vomit with stress. Someone is gonna die in this scene  e2: loving HELL MOLLY YOU BEAST YOU'RE NO DO NOTHING BITCH I have to go to a friend's going away halfway through the episode and honestly I'm thankful for the break, my cardiac muscles are exhausted. EmmyOk fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 19:56
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Mads Mikkelsen, Elijah Woods and Daniel Radcliffe?
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Aug 14, 2015 20:40
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Steve Yun posted:Mads Mikkelsen, Elijah Woods and Daniel Radcliffe? Will and Hannibal 
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Aug 14, 2015 20:48
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King Vidiot posted:In the book he continues to speak with the lisp because he used to speak with a lisp due to a cleft palate. But even after having corrective surgery, he continues to lisp because he doesn't have the confidence to speak without crippling self-consciousness. The book says he speaks a little quieter when trying to say "S"s or "TH"s. In the book his speech is weird as well because he avoids specific words as well. Like he'll pause and come up with a different word if he realizes the word he is going to say has that ss on it.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:57
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Thank you KV and Hollis! I haven't read the book super recently so any clarifications, updates or corrections are greatly appreciated! I enjoy the conversations that these can start. Also, apologies for the abbreviations, I'm currently on my cell phone and typing is somewhat of a hassle. Anyone want to share any new choice mined quotes from the book? I know we have several recent readers in the thread!
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Aug 14, 2015 21:27
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he ate it up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Aug 14, 2015 21:28
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He ate it up!! I've missed analytical Alana Kill them all  Nooooooo he's watching videos of doggies  ((((((((((Noooooo nothing is wrong with the doggies Did Molly just bring like 40 dogs to the vet? Heh personal ads and toilet paper Gosh Hannibal is just being such a bitchy ex ----------------------------------------------------- jesus christ. think i bit all my fingernails off. molly is awesome. Will probably needs to kick Jack's rear end just a little bit In my own way I always have - this guy!! This is a great phone call How the gently caress long does it take to trace a phone call lololol they are listening crazy sons of bitches "then i gave him your home address" god daaaaaaaaamn In summation, Hannibal really is a piece of poo poo and Molly is the True Detective
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Aug 14, 2015 21:30
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Brock Samson posted:
That was the most hilarious part. They were talking forever.
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Aug 14, 2015 21:35
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Won't happen, but I hope Hannibal dies. I never really turned on Walter White but I'm done liking Hannibal now.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:10
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Brock Samson posted:
Molly is the baddest bitch in the game, she earned Will
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Aug 15, 2015 00:35
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Waltzing Along posted:Won't happen, but I hope Hannibal dies. I never really turned on Walter White but I'm done liking Hannibal now. Good, because that's pretty much how you're supposed to feel. There really wasn't a point where Hannibal wasn't a villain, he was just a much more subtle and seductive villain than most. I mean he systematically breaks Will's mind through hypnosis and gives him a quasi-brain tumor that makes him black out and then convinces Will that he's a serial killer. That's not something that you do if you're a good person.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:45
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King Vidiot posted:Good, because that's pretty much how you're supposed to feel. There really wasn't a point where Hannibal wasn't a villain, he was just a much more subtle and seductive villain than most. I mean he systematically breaks Will's mind through hypnosis and gives him a quasi-brain tumor that makes him black out and then convinces Will that he's a serial killer. That's not something that you do if you're a good person. Yeah. But there are degrees of villainy.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:02
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You talkin about a viola or somethin
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Aug 15, 2015 01:06
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Waltzing Along posted:Won't happen, but I hope Hannibal dies. I never really turned on Walter White but I'm done liking Hannibal now. I like him more and more, poor jealous Hannibal just wants his waifu back. No matter the cost. One man. One waifu. One meal. This summer at blockbusters.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:27
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