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kaworu posted:How good has Hannibal season 3 been? I've been distracted and shamefully have not kept up with it this summer but I am about to. I was also pretty seriously depressed to hear it had been cancelled, since I had such high goddamn hopes for this as a long-term enterprise. For me, I was bored out of my gourd for the first half, and my problems with it mirrored my problems with the second half of season 2. I don't like to use the word pretentious, but it definitely seemed way too into its own artiness for my tastes. I like the second half better, but I still feel like it's missing some of the things that drew me to the show in the first place. It's just not pulling me in like the first season and a half did. Still good stuff unlike anything else on TV.
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Aug 18, 2015 13:34
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Xanderkish posted:it definitely seemed way too into its own artiness for my tastes. I wanted to ask about this since it's come up a fair bit - what would you say is the difference between something that is genuinely just art and something that's 'too artsy'?
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Aug 18, 2015 13:51
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showbiz_liz posted:I wanted to ask about this since it's come up a fair bit - what would you say is the difference between something that is genuinely just art and something that's 'too artsy'? It's entirely academic really
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Aug 18, 2015 13:55
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showbiz_liz posted:I wanted to ask about this since it's come up a fair bit - what would you say is the difference between something that is genuinely just art and something that's 'too artsy'? Opinion.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:51
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showbiz_liz posted:I wanted to ask about this since it's come up a fair bit - what would you say is the difference between something that is genuinely just art and something that's 'too artsy'? Like others said, pretty much opinion. And context. For me, some of the artistic discretion shots didn't seem to have much point to the story--they didn't move the plot along, didn't reveal character, and seemed redundant in terms of setting atmosphere. In some films and shows that works just fine. For me, for this show, it didn't.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:03
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Xanderkish posted:In some films and shows that works just fine. For me, for this show, it didn't. That's the important part though. What is it about the way it was done in this show made it not work for you? It doesn't seem like you're trying to say that every shot has to be in service of the plot or characters, so when is it ok to have a stylish, interesting shot just for the hell of it?
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Aug 18, 2015 15:24
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The forensics team figures that the Tooth Fairy is killing pets to eliminate early warnings when he returns to kill the families. Will's dogs get poisoned and Molly decides to keep it a secret from Will. Had she told Will, he might have realized she was being targeted next. Withholding information, even white lies about small things like dogs getting poisoned, is being shown to have life-and-death repercussions. Later in the episode it's Hannibal withholding information about Dolarhyde from Alana. Is the thing about Molly not telling Will that their dogs were poisoned from the books?
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Aug 18, 2015 15:42
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Steve Yun posted:
'Save yourself, kill them all' + Will's addy was relayed to Dolarhyde in the Tattler I believe (in the novel). Since Will was monitoring this exchange, he was able to get his family out of the house immediately... so there was no incident between Molly and Dolarhyde at that point. I don't recall anything mentioned about the dogs or who cared for them.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:04
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Yea that's what made that scene so great for book fans, it had been totally turned on its head and we had no idea what to expect. In every other version of the story Molly wakes up and gets scared that somebody is in the house but it turns out to just be the police coming to secure her.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:12
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I wonder if Hannibal's mind palace is going to help him think of making GBS threads in a luxurious bathroom when he's squatting over a hole in front of the asylum's security 
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Aug 18, 2015 16:18
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showbiz_liz posted:The first half was some of the most experimental TV like ever, which was slightly divisive, with some people accusing the show of being overly pretentious. But I loved it and I loved that they had the balls to go there. Ahh. No wonder I am enjoying the gently caress out of these first two episodes, then. I loved how non-linear the first episode was, and then it was punctuated by this crazy, semi-unrealistic dialogue that almost mirrors the tableau-like nature of one of Hannibal's murder scenes. And of course visually, the show has been doing this more and more. It's like the entire show is becoming one of Hannibal's perverse tablaeux - the latter part of the third season was definitely operating in a similar headspace, too.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:46
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Basebf555 posted:Yea that's what made that scene so great for book fans, it had been totally turned on its head and we had no idea what to expect. In every other version of the story Molly wakes up and gets scared that somebody is in the house but it turns out to just be the police coming to secure her. I really liked the way Molly thought through the plan, using the sound distractions to not only allow Walter to get to her but also to escape. It was a very well done scene, as it never felt D was nerfed to allow Molly to escape, she outwitted him. We still have 2 episodes left, and I'm not sure what else they have to do. There is the article in the Tattler, but I do not not know if it will be done, since Lounds' death was already used in season 2.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:18
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wins.
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PassTheRemote posted:We still have 2 episodes left, and I'm not sure what else they have to do. Using up the confrontation with Molly with two episodes to go in the season is similar to how, in season one, they used up Hannibal's book capture on Miriam Lass. It signals that they're planning to make significant changes to the ending of this part of the story.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:23
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Basebf555 posted:That's the important part though. What is it about the way it was done in this show made it not work for you? I guess for me, style for the sake of style has a higher bar for inclusion than other things. I love beautiful visuals in movies and shows, but generally, I prefer really stylistic things to be integrated into the plot, without requiring the action to be paused in order to see it. Sort of like how Kurt Vonnegut advises that every sentence in a story should reveal character or advance the action (although I don't consider my feelings as strict as his). An example of where I thought style and action combined well would be this scene from Skyfall, where the fight has these surreal mirror shots and it's all against a backdrop of neon, it's great, partly because it doesn't stop the ride to point them out. If the fight scene was shot at different angles than what we got, and then we randomly got static shots of that weird Jellyfish poo poo punctuated throughout, It'd be awkward and unappealing. So when I get a shot that's closer to looking pretty than moving the story forward or revealing character I generally need more to justify its presence in the film. One of the things that does it for me is novelty. One of the reasons a lot of the stylistic shots from the first season were fine to me was because the crime of the week nature of a lot of the episodes meant we checked out a lot of different things, from corpse totem poles to beehive people, and the stylistic zoom-ins and slo-mos were more interesting because we genuinely hadn't seen these sort of things, in this sort of way. And they generally didn't linger too long. Meanwhile, early in the third season we had a lot of shots of water...being water. Again and again. Droplets falling into water and having rippling effects. Droplets (sometimes of blood) flying through the air. A lot of slow motion shots. I recall hearing that the show didn't have as many days to shoot in the early episodes, and I felt like that showed. Slow motion shots of water and the like were peppered throughout and in between scenes, to the point where someone might, say, pop a champagne bottle and we'd be treated to a slow motion shot of champagne floating through the air (I can't remember if this actually happened, but it's a good example for how I felt). Beyond that, it's also related to my expectations. Am I expecting a more or less straightforward plot, or am I expecting it to be more about atmosphere and visuals? If it's the latter, I can tolerate a lot more of that stuff. Enter the Void was pretty much just a really long acid trip, but I had more tolerance for it because I knew going in that's what it was going to be about (although I still got bored, I had a higher tolerance for it in that instance). Hannibal was never a fast-paced show, but earlier seasons tended to move faster than what we got in early season 3 (this was in part because of the 'crime of the week' nature of some of its episodes, which by definition had to move relatively quickly). I liked that pace, and got used to it, so when it changed to a slow pace things didn't click as well for me. Finally, the style in those might be easier to swallow if I was more engaged with the rest of the story. If I'm hooked, if I've suspended disbelief and completely absorbed in the story, those sorts of stylistic shots just wash over me as part of the overall package, like they have for some of the people in here, and like they did in previous seasons. If the plot and the characters are uninteresting, then the artsy discretion shots will seem as boring, pointless, and unnecessary as the story does. And that was a big problem I had with early season 3, and to some extent still struggle with. I just couldn't get into the plot, and the characters felt disconnected and uninteresting. I was frustrated by the slow, navel-gazing pace of the story, and those shots seemed like so much more bullshit taking me away from the action, even if for only a brief period of time. Hope that answers your question.  I appreciated being able to further explain my opinion, and am happy to do so at any time.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:50
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a shameful boehner posted:I wonder if Hannibal's mind palace is going to help him think of making GBS threads in a luxurious bathroom when he's squatting over a hole in front of the asylum's security It's basically the toilet cabinet from Versailles where the Sun King takes a poop in absolute luxury and the bourgeoisie all cheer
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Aug 18, 2015 21:32
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"You shouldn't put this guy in a mental hospital. You should kill him. I'm gonna watch baseball."
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Aug 18, 2015 21:39
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Steve Yun posted:"You shouldn't put this guy in a mental hospital. You should kill him. I'm gonna watch baseball." me irl
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Aug 18, 2015 22:45
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Molly and Wally are the angel and devil on Will's shoulder. Wally just wants the guy dead and avoids dealing with it by watching tv, but Molly processes her emotions and catches herself getting angry momentarily. In a world of weirdos and wackos, she really stands out for being so down-to-earth, supportive and honest about herself.
Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 23:34
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Basebf555 posted:Its not going to be a definitive ending because they wrote the season without knowing for sure if there'd be another season. So we may see something completely open-ended like Hannibal escaping ala Silence of the Lambs, or something more in the middle like Hannibal in prison awaiting the day when Clarice comes to see him. Well, Fuller has said several times that there is a definitive end to this season, as they were unsure if they would get another. So we should be seeing a definite conclusion, though there could be some slight cliffhanger stuff in there like there was last season or the season before. He says that in a lot of what he does he likes to have a definite end just in case.
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Aug 18, 2015 23:34
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TurboFlamingChicken posted:Well, Fuller has said several times that there is a definitive end to this season, as they were unsure if they would get another. So we should be seeing a definite conclusion, though there could be some slight cliffhanger stuff in there like there was last season or the season before. He says that in a lot of what he does he likes to have a definite end just in case. Didn't he also say he considered Season 1 and 2 to have natural series finales in case they weren't renewed?
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Aug 18, 2015 23:58
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EmmyOk posted:Didn't he also say he considered Season 1 and 2 to have natural series finales in case they weren't renewed? I think they would have both worked as series finales. (If the show had ended after season 2 it would have been the most hilariously nihilistic series finale ever, making Breaking Bad look like a fairytale)
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Aug 19, 2015 01:32
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Sorry but it has escaped me; how many years has passed since Hannibal's capture and the current Red Dragon happenings?
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Aug 19, 2015 05:35
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Sorry but it has escaped me; how many years has passed since Hannibal's capture and the current Red Dragon happenings? Three
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Aug 19, 2015 05:36
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Would harassing poor netflix employees to pick up Hannibal be worth the effort at this point?
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Aug 19, 2015 05:46
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Hobohemian posted:Would harassing poor netflix employees to pick up Hannibal be worth the effort at this point? Unless you can also get Amazon to give up the streaming rights to Seasons 1-2 (aka the reason that Netflix wasn't didn't pick them up), it's not worth your time.
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Aug 19, 2015 06:10
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I love how blase Hannibal is when he gets rumbled doing something. Alana: Your lawyer says he hasn't called you since you were found legally insane  Hannibal: I'd have told you that if you asked 
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Aug 19, 2015 09:49
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Yeah, Hannibal's level of smugness not dropping is amazing. Hopefully he screams "WORTH IT!" every time he has to poo poo in a bucket.
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Aug 19, 2015 19:30
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Angular Landbury posted:Yeah, Hannibal's level of smugness not dropping is amazing. Hopefully he screams "WORTH IT!" every time he has to poo poo in a bucket. He smiles to himself as he poops out through the holes in his cell's glass wall, "enjoy your next visit, Dr. Bloom" he chuckles.
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Aug 19, 2015 19:38
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I don't understand why she doesn't just move him to the shithouse cell that Will was in (ie his cell from the movies). That said it wouldn't surprise me if Alana had bulldozed every other cell to make room for Hannibal's little palace. He is the only inmate they've ever had other than Will and Dr Gideon, after all.
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Aug 19, 2015 20:11
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I always enjoyed how the show was shot and produced; Different than what I had seen on American TV lately, and Fuller said it's headed into the "purple operatic." He absolutely fulfills on that. It was never meant to be realistic in the first place. I don't think I would enjoy all the finer points if it was not like this, to be honest. It really really fits.
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Aug 19, 2015 20:16
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SoroScrew
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Steve2911 posted:I don't understand why she doesn't just move him to the shithouse cell that Will was in (ie his cell from the movies). She made the point in the first episode or so after the time-jump that she's put Hannibal where he is specifically so she and she alone has complete control over access to him - the only way to get to that room goes through her office, the guards only go in when she gives them the go-ahead etc. The whole idea is that he can't get into anybody's head because she won't let anyone be alone with him for more than a few seconds (until Will returns at least). Which just makes the fact he that he proceeds to have heartfelt chats with an on-the-loose serial killer right under her nose all the more hilarious.  Edit: Oh, and I loved how they shot the "therapy session" between Hannibal and Dolarhyde, with Hannibal moving in from the left and right of frame without moving from his seat.... and at points Hannibal even observing himself sitting listening to Dolarhyde talk. I'm not entirely sure if we're seeing things from Dolarhyde's hosed up perspective or from Hannibal's "I am God" point of view, but either way it was creepy and very well done. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 22:13
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Steve2911 posted:I don't understand why she doesn't just move him to the shithouse cell that Will was in (ie his cell from the movies). I don't think Hannibal would see getting to sleep in Will's bed every night as a punishment.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:15
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Mameluke posted:I don't think Hannibal would see getting to sleep in Will's bed every night as a punishment. It'll be like that scene in Malcolm in the Middle where Hal puts Ben Gay on Lois' pillow while she's away so he can smell "her", only Hannibal just pours Old Spice over the pillow then spends all night sneering at it for being so low class.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:23
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Jerusalem posted:I love how blase Hannibal is when he gets rumbled doing something. I too admire his shamelessness. It's hilarious.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:34
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So we have two episodes left! Place your bets: 1. Alana, dead or alive? 2. Denise (orderly) threatened to mace Hannibal. Does he get her in some way yes or no! 3. Alana and Margot's baby, dead or alive!
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Aug 19, 2015 23:14
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Steve Yun posted:2. Denise (orderly) threatened to mace Hannibal. Does he get her in some way yes or no!
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Aug 19, 2015 23:33
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Steve Yun posted:So we have two episodes left! Place your bets: I get the feeling Denise is meant to be Not Barney. Courteous and receptive to courtesy.
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Aug 19, 2015 23:57
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Steve Yun posted:So we have two episodes left! Place your bets: 1) If Hannibal escapes, then dead, but that could have been left for the Silence of the Lambs adaptation. 2) Denise is this universe's Barney, so no. She only threatened to mace Hannibal if he moved before she left. 3) Killing that child would be needlessly cruel, and would render Margot's cathartic victory against Mason null and void.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:14
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I don't care what happens as long as Chilton survives.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:34
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Chinston Wurchill posted:I don't care what happens as long as Chilton survives. Well, at the end of each season so far they have left him in a state of possibly dead and possibly alive... bet you they'll do it again.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:43
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