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Sub Rosa posted:I mean, this was the ending before they knew the show was cancelled. You think Season 5 would have been without Will or Hannibal? Garfield Minus Garfield: Murder Husband Mind Palace edition.
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Sep 2, 2015 14:48
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Xealot posted:But in one of the posted interviews, Fuller did say that his dream casting for Jame Gumb would be Lee Pace, which would own insanely and be incredible. Yeah, seems about right.  I'd gently caress me. I'd gently caress me so hard.
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Sep 2, 2015 14:57
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Fog Tripper posted:I like to think that Bedellia was in the dining room the whole second half of the episode, while Will, Hannibal and TF were out in the smoking room having pre-dinner drinks. After the fight in the next room then the showdown outside and then over the cliff they went... they should have shone Bedellia sitting there awakening from the drugged stupor all "guys? Guys?" followed by a Seinfeld bass line. That's pretty loving funny. Personally I hated the stinger because it took what could have been a perfectly satisfying yet totally ambiguous ending to the season and/or series, and made it not ambiguous anymore*. So as long as we're allowed to put our own interpretation to the ending, I will go with "it's a visual metaphor for how Bedelia will feel for the rest of her life, not knowing if Hannibal is alive or dead." Trapped, alone, crippled, and like she's about to be eaten alive at any moment. That way, if the show never comes back, Will and Hannibal can stay dead. *Because she obviously didn't do it to herself, because her entire character up to this point has been "the one person who can be in Hannibal's orbit and survive without rolling over for him," making her not the kind of person to preemptively mutilate herself on the off chance that Hannibal somehow survived and might eventually decide to come over for brunch. I mean even if she knows he survived somehow, she has no way of knowing WHEN he'll come for her, she could be sitting there for loving days watching her own leg become inedible. It doesn't make any sense.
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Sep 2, 2015 15:00
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showbiz_liz posted:
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Sep 2, 2015 15:40
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I'm wondering if Dolarhyde's camera was going to play into a hypothetical future season. Hannibal and Will might have conveniently left it on and lying in such a way to where it would capture them "falling off the cliff". Anybody watching the video would think that Will sacrificed himself to kill Hannibal, when really the two of them planned to fake their deaths. It'd be the only way to get the FBI off both of their cases.
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Sep 2, 2015 15:55
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So, looking back to the season's plots and characters with a somewhat clearer mind... what the hell were they thinking with Chiyoh's character? She maybe has one episode (her first) where she is interesting, and then she is a plot device with a sniper rifle and questionable timing/motives/plans. And finally I think she went back to her home planet (?) AbstractNapper fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 15:58
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I doubt the camera shows anything besides Francis narrating how Hannibal's end would fuel the Dragon's strength and Hannibal getting up to sneak up behind them after Will gets stabbed.
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Sep 2, 2015 15:59
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AbstractNapper posted:So, looking back to the season's plots and characters with a somewhat clearer mind... what the hell were they thinking with Chiyoh's character? She was waiting for the fourth season to start so she could pull Hannibal (and Will?) off a beach to save him... and then disappear again.
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Sep 2, 2015 16:38
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^burtle posted:I doubt the camera shows anything besides Francis narrating how Hannibal's end would fuel the Dragon's strength and Hannibal getting up to sneak up behind them after Will gets stabbed. If it got knocked over in the ensuing fight, it could have wound up pointed out onto the patio.
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Sep 2, 2015 16:44
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showbiz_liz posted:*Because she obviously didn't do it to herself, because her entire character up to this point has been "the one person who can be in Hannibal's orbit and survive without rolling over for him," making her not the kind of person to preemptively mutilate herself on the off chance that Hannibal somehow survived and might eventually decide to come over for brunch. I mean even if she knows he survived somehow, she has no way of knowing WHEN he'll come for her, she could be sitting there for loving days watching her own leg become inedible. It doesn't make any sense.
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Sep 2, 2015 16:48
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Fuller and associates have floated the "maybe it was HANNIBAL'S UNCLE AND AUNT" thing in too many interviews for me to believe that they aren't in fact the people who've capture Bedelia and the next season would have been about them trying to track down Hannibal after his disappearance, with Will either by his side or on the run separately.
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Sep 2, 2015 17:12
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FourLeaf posted:Honestly, the idea of Hannibal's evil persisting after death and still ruining lives is a stronger ending than Will and Hannibal being immortal superhumans who can survive falling off a massive cliff. It's fine if that's not the "canon" ending, but it's the one I prefer as well. I agree, I love the idea that even if Hannibal is dead and being eaten by the fishes, so long as there is no body to confirm it (hell, everyone would probably want to DNA test it and be 100% it's Hannibal) * Alana is still going to be looking over her shoulder all her life, her child raised with armed bodyguards around. * Bedelia's going to try and play the game and try to survive and be in 'ready to pacify the beast' mode at all times. * Chilton's probably going to publish an unauthorized crappy analysis of Will Graham and a second book analysing the Graham/Lecter dynamic. New upgraded bodyguards of course. * Jack's going to be pissed for ten minutes: 5 for losing his prize catch, 5 for losing his prize catcher then back to work tracking down the latest killer. * Lecter copycats will come out of the woodworks claiming to be his reincarnation or being in touch with him in the afterlife. * Lecter fans will want to avenge those who made his death possible or his death may be the trigger they needed to start their becoming. I'm pretty sure that's who came after Bedelia, it was RUDE to claim she was brainwashed and make money off the lecture circuit telling her "story" even trashing Dante (that Hannibal obviously loved) like that. A Lecter fan (possibly an asylum guard or a Tattler crime reader or a former patient) has served her up to be eaten sure but is a full human leg on display like that with so much garish colour really Hannibal's style? With Gideon's legs, he was so creative! I'd like to think that Hannibal would take at least part of Bedelia's leg to put aside to be smoked and cured. There would be amuse-bouches/tapas, a roast dinner with delicate slices and something done with the marrow and blood. Luau is for a pig and Hannibal does not consider Bedelia to be a pig.
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Sep 2, 2015 17:41
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Halloween Jack posted:Okay, there is one aspect of this show I am a big dumb ignorant stupidface about : why does Hannibal want to kill and eat Bedelia? What did she do to offend his sense of Bedelia betrays Hannibal several times over the course of the series. Remember, she talked to the police in season 2, she abandoned him as her therapist, and fled her house before he could kill her. In the first half of season 3, she betrayed him again by telling Verger's men where Hannibal was, she is the direct reason for Hannibal and Will's capture. Finally, she's been telling lies about him for years, much like Chilton, and profiting from his name and work. She literally escapes death twice by finding the precise moment to betray Hannibal and then run like hell. Not only has she repeatedly betrayed him, but she's essentially outsmarted him twice. Also, Hannibal is evil.
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Sep 2, 2015 17:51
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Hannibal is fascinated by Bedelia, and therefore feels the need to eat her. As long as she's with Hannibal and continues to be interesting, there's no need to eat her just yet, but he was always planning to. Once she tries to separate herself from him(first by quitting as his therapist, later by ratting him out to the police), she's no longer going to be around to entertain him so he might as well eat her and be done with it. I don't think betrayal really factors into it.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:34
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I was actually pretty surprised when it was made clear he wanted to eat her, given that his fascination with her seemed warm and somewhat paternalistic. Perhaps that sounds like an impossibility for Hannibal, but haven't caged tigers been known to cuddle stuffed animals? I considered the possibility that she reminds him of his sister. At any rate, it's not a coincidence that he bathes her in a copper tub.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:39
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I assumed the ambiguity of the fall wasn't whether or not they survived it but whether it actually happened or if it was a metaphor for Will taking the leap into Hannibal's world. Some people are not posting like this though.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:42
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I am completely satisfied with the show as a whole now that it is "complete", but man I'll always wonder what might have been in season 4 with Uncle David Bowie.
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Sep 2, 2015 22:14
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Saying the ending that majority including the creators said happened is not the only one that's valid shortly after saying "people who think it's valid don't understand the show" is  . Stay petty, fans who didn't like this season anywayEveryone else, save up money for the DVD: it's gonna be good  @RCArmitage .@NBCHannibal @BryanFuller @neoprod @DeLaurentiisCo DVD commentary with Bryan in LA from my Sonic 'Anderson Shelter' Jerusalem posted:I am completely satisfied with the show as a whole now that it is "complete", but man I'll always wonder what might have been in season 4 with Uncle David Bowie. Uncle David Bowie, Aunt Martha Stewart
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Sep 3, 2015 00:01
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Sub Rosa posted:I mean, this was the ending before they knew the show was cancelled. You think Season 5 would have been without Will or Hannibal? I was just thinking about this the other day. If I recall right, Fuller at one point said season four would be an original creation, with five retelling The Silence of the Lambs, if they could get the rights. For some reason I got it in my head that if a season five happened, Will would be out of the picture because of something in season four. At the same time though, I have no idea if that would be a thing that would work into the story. So much of the series has been focused on Hannibal and Will's dynamic, would the show really work without one of them?
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Sep 3, 2015 01:00
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If anyone is having withdraws, I just went back and watched "Ceuf" from season 1 which never aired due to the Boston Marathon bombings and Sandy Hook. I missed it the first time around so it was new to me!
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Sep 3, 2015 01:34
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EmmyOk posted:I assumed the ambiguity of the fall wasn't whether or not they survived it but whether it actually happened or if it was a metaphor for Will taking the leap into Hannibal's world. Some people are not posting like this though. I agree. This show makes way more sense, or is at the least more tolerable, if you assume it's a slightly surreal non-reality. If you're bothered that Chilton survived a gunshot to the head, or that Alana fell through a window onto concrete, this show isn't your jam. It's basically a chamber drama about a bunch of people who don't realize they're in Purgatory. If the show is over, Will and Hannibal died falling from a cliff. If it isn't, they didn't. Why? Who cares. That's what happened.
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Sep 3, 2015 01:40
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Gravitee posted:If anyone is having withdraws, I just went back and watched "Ceuf" from season 1 which never aired due to the Boston Marathon bombings and Sandy Hook. I missed it the first time around so it was new to me! I thought it was kind of average aside from the stuntcasting of Molly Shannon as a serial killer and the novelty/edge of being about kids murdering their parents, but if you missed it back in the day or only saw the digest version they put on YouTube that was the Hannibal and Will scenes with the actual killer of the week parts edited out then hey you have a new episode to watch.
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Sep 3, 2015 01:43
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Sleeveless posted:I thought it was kind of average aside from the stuntcasting of Molly Shannon as a serial killer and the novelty/edge of being about kids murdering their parents, but if you missed it back in the day or only saw the digest version they put on YouTube that was the Hannibal and Will scenes with the actual killer of the week parts edited out then hey you have a new episode to watch. I missed it completely the first time around. It wasn't great but it filled in some gaps in the Hannibal/Abigail relationship.
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Sep 3, 2015 01:52
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I saw the edited version and then the full version much later, and I think it does add something to see it all in context - the character stuff about finding your own family in that episode gets so so much creepier. Even if the actual murder plot itself is pretty meh.
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Sep 3, 2015 02:07
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I consider it an above average episode because there was lots of food, and lots of Hannibal "educating" Abigail. And he was being a charming motherfucker while he was doing it Trou Normand also ends with a fantastic heart to heart between Hannibal and Abigail. A lot of my favorite moments in the show are just two people sitting around and talking about their feelings. It's amazing stuff. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 03:47
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How could anybody be bothered about them torturing Chilton and his fans regularly
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Sep 3, 2015 04:56
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Alright, there's a moment in season 1 where Will inspects Nicholas Boyle's corpse, and he imagines being the one who stabbed Nicholas. He always imagines being the killer. BUT then he flips sides and imagines Abigail is stabbing him in the stomach. Is this the only time he imagines being the victim? Is this also foreshadowing the moment when Abigail would help Hannibal stab Will in the stomach?
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Sep 3, 2015 05:42
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Haha, holy poo poo season 1 is so different. Everything seems so grounded in reality (relatively speaking). There is color. There is light. There was subtlety. You could actually see the corners of Hannibal's office People were concerned about things like the right method of therapy for somebody, or survivor guilt, or the fact that they just kissed a woman ***** Kacey Rohl was a gem of a find, every single one of her scenes are acting gold. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 06:56
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Can't believe the show is over, nothing to do now but re-watch it all again and see how the various murderers of the show stack up. Garret Hobbs Minnesota Shrike
Eldon Stammets Fungus Guy
Unnamed Mother Figure Unnamed Mother Figure
Elliot Budish Angel-maker
Dr. Abel Gideon The Chesapeake Ripoff
Devon Silvestri Organ Donor (By Proxy)
Tobias Budge Cello Bro
Larry Wells Totem Pole Killer
Georgia Madchen Face
James Gray The Muralist
Katherine Pimms The Acupuncturist
Matthew Brown The Orderly
Clark Ingram Social Worker Sown Up Into a Horse
Randall Tier Man-imal
Mason Verger Papa's Boy
Chiyoh That Girl No One Likes
Francis Dolarhyde The Toothfairy
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Sep 3, 2015 08:26
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The Gideon Ripper stuff is a couple of things, mostly the fact that he's a surgeon and once he was caught Hannibal stopped his Ripper killings. He takes credit for the crimes when Chilton uses "psychic driving" on him to convince him that he was the killer, because Chilton wanted the fame of having figured out who the Ripper was. They don't go into detail what Chilton did but it was probably similar to the stuff that Hannibal later did to Will, just not as effective because you know, Chilton.
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Sep 3, 2015 11:55
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Old Doggy Bastard posted:
Yeah, but look back closely at this ending point in contrast to the other elaborate murders. "He kills families! (2?)" Not all that compelling in the grand scheme, yet ridiculous resources are used(wasted?) in order to bring him to... justice? Or something? All in all Dolarhyde was crap, yet was really over-hyped by the rest of the cast for reasons unknown. Criminal Minds probably would have passed over his file completely.
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Sep 3, 2015 12:12
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Fog Tripper posted:Yeah, but look back closely at this ending point in contrast to the other elaborate murders. I'm not quite where you are but feel similar about how big a deal was made about Dolarhyde- we know he has the interesting Red Dragon thing going on and has a lot going for him but there is no reason for everyone to go absolutely psychotic over a guy who has killed two families without much publicly known. He kills families, and bites them- that is about as much as the media has to work with but then again I'm young enough to not remember any mass serial killer manhunt aside from like the highway sniper so maybe I've yet to live in a time of media hysteria over an interesting killer.
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Sep 3, 2015 13:02
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Steve Yun posted:Haha, holy poo poo season 1 is so different.
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Sep 3, 2015 13:59
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Old Doggy Bastard posted:I'm not quite where you are but feel similar about how big a deal was made about Dolarhyde- we know he has the interesting Red Dragon thing going on and has a lot going for him but there is no reason for everyone to go absolutely psychotic over a guy who has killed two families without much publicly known. The relative rarity of serial killers in real life means they can become weird infamous celebrities once journalists get hold of their stories. Arguably this is actually a big part of what Red Dragon is about, since so much of what happens occurs first of all because of how Freddie Lounds publicized Lecter's capture and Will's subsequent breakdown, and then the rise of Dolarhyde as "the Tooth Fairy" some five years later (and Lounds's coverage is, of course, why Dolarhyde knows of and idolizes Lecter). I've always felt like the novelistic progression from Lecter to Dolarhyde to Gumb in Silence of the Lambs was intended to be a long view of a national media cycle that orbits around serial killers. If an actual killer started murdering and biting entire families, he'd only have to do two to become huge news, but this makes little sense in a world where we had the flesh totem and the mechabear. (In fact, I'd criticize this last season precisely for its failure to establish any sort of public dialogue around Lecter or Dolarhyde -- we had Chilton insisting it was there, but it never felt believable, though that's probably a case of me asking the show to be something it's not interested in being, because basically none of the killers have had any sort of public existence outside Hannibal as the Ripper.)
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Sep 3, 2015 14:04
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Old Doggy Bastard posted:I'm not quite where you are but feel similar about how big a deal was made about Dolarhyde- we know he has the interesting Red Dragon thing going on and has a lot going for him but there is no reason for everyone to go absolutely psychotic over a guy who has killed two families without much publicly known. Did he even kill anyone outside of law enforcement folks and the gas station guy after they began to pursue him? "I am BECOMING the RED DRAAAAAGON!" "Yes, be that as it may, what have you actually DONE?" "I Killed WHOLE Families!TWO families!" "But have you ever actually done something interesting or provocative?" "I once ate a painting... er, does getting a big tattoo count?" Dolarhyde came off like a silent fart compared to the interesting villains that came before. In fact the one villain who didn't kill anyone whatsoever was more interesting. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 14:26
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Gravitee posted:If anyone is having withdraws, I just went back and watched "Ceuf" from season 1 which never aired due to the Boston Marathon bombings and Sandy Hook. I missed it the first time around so it was new to me! Huh, I never realised that one didn't air. I can't stand the thought of there being extra unaired (but still canon and freely available) episodes of my favourite shows out there without me knowing. Then again that's one more reason not to watch live/broadcast friendly TV ever.
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Sep 3, 2015 14:46
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Best to imagine that seasons one and two were in a different universe. They were set in the best of all possible Hannibal worlds
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Sep 3, 2015 17:03
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Steve Yun posted:Kacey Rohl was a gem of a find, every single one of her scenes are acting gold. IIRC back in season 1 the original casting director offered to leave her position so they'd have the budget to use Kacey. I think they've gotten a lot of mileage out of that decision.
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Sep 3, 2015 18:02
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:If an actual killer started murdering and biting entire families, he'd only have to do two to become huge news, but this makes little sense in a world where we had the flesh totem and the mechabear. (In fact, I'd criticize this last season precisely for its failure to establish any sort of public dialogue around Lecter or Dolarhyde -- we had Chilton insisting it was there, but it never felt believable, though that's probably a case of me asking the show to be something it's not interested in being, because basically none of the killers have had any sort of public existence outside Hannibal as the Ripper.) I never really thought about it before but drat, both the flesh totem and the garden of human mushrooms would be crime of the century material, wouldn't they? Nevermind the giant pan-racial eye staring at heaven.
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Sep 3, 2015 18:21
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McSpanky posted:I never really thought about it before but drat, both the flesh totem and the garden of human mushrooms would be crime of the century material, wouldn't they? Nevermind the giant pan-racial eye staring at heaven. Well all three of those guys were picking off occasional people, largely at random, and no bodies were found until it was far too late. Hell, a lot of the flesh totem victims weren't even seen as murders until right before he was caught. Killing entire families is far sexier, more immediate and scarier to the stupid masses, and probably got more attention in the scaremongering press.
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Sep 3, 2015 18:43
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