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hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

cochise posted:

The first episode of this season. Angela was already in agreement with Whiterose being able to undo/reset the world. Then we saw Whiterose in that giant particle collider.

Uhh it went back to at least mid season 2 with project Berenstein/Berenstain Bears theory and the BttF references.

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mrbotus
Apr 7, 2009

Patron of the Pants

maskenfreiheit posted:

Art imitates life

how so?

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Is the young Angela the same girl that Angela met earlier? I mustve totally missed the time travel idea. What is it? I think I remember seeing that particle accelerator but I thought it was a power plant.

Still deeply in love with Dominique Depierro. Best character in this show.

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
If Back to the Future references are part of the time travel theory, I'm pretty sure Angela invites Elliot to get stoned and watch BTTF II in the first episode.

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

China will eventually (10-20 years in the future) be the world's superpower if things continue on their current path

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011

SalTheBard posted:

Any speculation about whats left?

Wellick is in custody
Stage 2 went off without a hitch
The Dark Army has everything they want (Congo, Bitcoin, E-Corp being destroyed)
Elliot and Mr. Robot have seemingly made peace with each other

I'm really at a loss of what could still be left, outside of loving alternate dimensions. Whatever is left I'm going to strap the gently caress in and enjoy it!

Elliot and Mr. Robot go to war against Whiterose
Price and Angela team up and do something (Angela - Price's daughter?? Who's the anonymous benefactor?)
Tyrell does something weird in jail (i really thought the 'instructions' were going to be on the back of a picture of his dead wife and baby, for some reason)
Whiterose... I have no loving idea.

I love this show.

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Holy gently caress that ending.

What was the dea with the subway scene? Was it just a random hold up by the guy in the mask or was he supposed to take something specific from Angela?

I also dont get why tyrel ran into that crowd unless it was part of the instructions? I take it placing the single handcuff on the bed was supposed to make it look like he was being held captive but its really unclear.

Modus Pwnens
Dec 29, 2004

by Nyc_Tattoo

Blind Rasputin posted:

What was the dea with the subway scene? Was it just a random hold up by the guy in the mask or was he supposed to take something specific from Angela?

There's always a chance it'll have some greater plot relevance but I saw that scene as showing Angela's conviction that time will be reset or whatever.

cochise
Sep 11, 2011


Mameluke posted:

If Back to the Future references are part of the time travel theory, I'm pretty sure Angela invites Elliot to get stoned and watch BTTF II in the first episode.

True. She says it was their favorite movie. I didn't even think about that when I posted earlier. :thunk:

maskenfreiheit posted:

China will eventually (10-20 years in the future) be the world's superpower if things continue on their current path

Naw. We're moving back to a multipolar world. Unquestioned hegemony is slowly dying off.

Sci-Fi option: we have a Firefly scenario.

cochise fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Nov 16, 2017

Turbl
Nov 8, 2007


Blind Rasputin posted:

Holy gently caress that ending.

What was the dea with the subway scene? Was it just a random hold up by the guy in the mask or was he supposed to take something specific from Angela?

I also dont get why tyrel ran into that crowd unless it was part of the instructions? I take it placing the single handcuff on the bed was supposed to make it look like he was being held captive but its really unclear.

Maybe hes supposed to frame someone else for the attack? Say he was kidnapped and he finally escaped trying to warn people but I dont know why hed be okay with that instead of fleeing the country like he was promised before

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

maskenfreiheit posted:

China will eventually (10-20 years in the future) be the world's superpower if things continue on their current path

Nah, they are absolutely poo poo at projecting power and they aren't currently taking steps to change that. And because they aren't right now doing that, they won't be ready to do it in 10 or 20 years. Also all their neighbors still like us more than them.

People really have no loving idea what the word "superpower" means, or just how key the US is to everything, or just how amazingly far we'd have to fall not to be number 1, or the catastrophic the effects would be on the rest of the world as it happened. So no, let me spoil your lifetime. It won't be BRIC, it won't be Europe, it won't be anybody but us in the top seat for the rest of your natural life. Empire die hard, and they die long.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
Pretty messed up that Tyrell caused all those deaths (pretty sure he's the one who told Whiterose or Irving of Elliot's new plan) and he will probably walk free. (Agent Santiago was in on it and seemed worried about Tyrell getting caught.) At least that's how I read it.

Harminoff fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Nov 16, 2017

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

cochise posted:

True. She says it was their favorite movie. I didn't even think about that when I posted earlier. :thunk:


Naw. We're moving back to a multipolar world. Unquestioned hegemony is slowly dying off.

Sci-Fi option: we have a Firefly scenario.

Ok yes, I buy that. And what the other poster said about force projection - I did some Googling and aircraft carriers aren't the kind of thing you spin up in a couple years.

I do think their will be reigonal superpowers, 1984 style, and China will be Asia's.

I don't necessarily think Russia will be Europe's (unless they want to keep invading everyone not in NATO one by one)

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

Mulva posted:

Nah, they are absolutely poo poo at projecting power and they aren't currently taking steps to change that. And because they aren't right now doing that, they won't be ready to do it in 10 or 20 years. Also all their neighbors still like us more than them.

People really have no loving idea what the word "superpower" means, or just how key the US is to everything, or just how amazingly far we'd have to fall not to be number 1, or the catastrophic the effects would be on the rest of the world as it happened. So no, let me spoil your lifetime. It won't be BRIC, it won't be Europe, it won't be anybody but us in the top seat for the rest of your natural life. Empire die hard, and they die long.

Meh, OTOH things will change subtly. Germany will give the next Snowden asylum, that sort of thing. (Other examples of where we throw our soft power around are failing to come to mind but I think that's a good example)

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

maskenfreiheit posted:

Ok yes, I buy that. And what the other poster said about force projection - I did some Googling and aircraft carriers aren't the kind of thing you spin up in a couple years.

I do think their will be reigonal superpowers, 1984 style, and China will be Asia's.

I don't necessarily think Russia will be Europe's (unless they want to keep invading everyone not in NATO one by one)

And, you know, their economy doesn't collapse again. From what I have seen casually as a non-macro-economist, they are not all that stable.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Sorry but I will have to say this one negative thing about this episode.
It didn't come soon enough.

It was a fantastic episode that should have happened as the Season 2 ender. The show has felt so very stagnant, despite being so very well directed. This episode blew the top off the plot train and we're finally full steam ahead into unknown territory instead of just waiting for Stage 2 to happen. I love it. I really hope the story pushes forward at a fast pace and, if we're lucky, we get an explanation for Angela's devotion before the season ends. I rather liked that they made the end of this episode about as tense as the end of episode 9 of last season (I think that's the one where Cisco gets shot) and I really hope we hear from Mogli and the other F-Society member(s) soon.

God that long-take at the start of this ep was real, real good.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
The back half of this episode was non-stop tension. I can't believe this isn't the season finale, drat.

AwkwardKnob
Dec 29, 2004

A good pun is like a good steak: A rare medium well done
So right now, it's unclear if there actually is some kind of weird sci-fi element to the plot right? It could have been a red herring to distract Angela (and us) while Elliot's red herring was the building in New York. Was this all just a huge elaborate scheme to gently caress over E-Corp, capitalizing on the chaos of 5/9 to position China on top of everything? We have seen the way Irving is prepared to lie and manipulate people around him to accomplish things, and him telling Angela that he's "seen it" doesn't really hold a lot of water with me any more.

But then we get all these loving glimpses of weird parallel universe easter eggs.

This show is great.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib

geeves posted:

What episode sparked this time travel/alternate dimensions thinking?

Primarily it was the episode where Angela met Whiterose, but there has been other talk throughout the series

maskenfreiheit posted:

Did they? Or was Mr Robot just keeping Elliot busy while the rest of the bombs went off?

O poo poo thats loving cagey if true. I really don't think Mr. Robot knew.

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

Mr. Robot was legit distressed when Elliott told him about the paper records not being on site.

CheddarGoblin
Jan 12, 2005
oh
Yeah it seems as if Mr. Robot didn't know about the 'real' plan and the 71 other buildings.

Which begs the question, did Tyrell? You'd think Mr. Robot would know if he knew.

Which begs the question, why did they need Tyrell at all? Or even Elliot/Mr. Robot at this point?

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

n.. posted:

Yeah it seems as if Mr. Robot didn't know about the 'real' plan and the 71 other buildings.

Which begs the question, did Tyrell? You'd think Mr. Robot would know if he knew.

Which begs the question, why did they need Tyrell at all? Or even Elliot/Mr. Robot at this point?

Red herring for the FBI? Santiago being head of the manhunt means all their efforts are focused on this one specific man.

JitteryComa
Nov 6, 2012

n.. posted:

Yeah it seems as if Mr. Robot didn't know about the 'real' plan and the 71 other buildings.

Which begs the question, did Tyrell? You'd think Mr. Robot would know if he knew.

Which begs the question, why did they need Tyrell at all? Or even Elliot/Mr. Robot at this point?

I figure the 71 other buildings was the workaround Tyrell came up with to deal with Elliot rerouting all the paper records to those buildings.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽

n.. posted:

Yeah it seems as if Mr. Robot didn't know about the 'real' plan and the 71 other buildings.

Which begs the question, did Tyrell? You'd think Mr. Robot would know if he knew.

Which begs the question, why did they need Tyrell at all? Or even Elliot/Mr. Robot at this point?

Pretty sure Elliot told Tyrell the new plan. He probably didn't tell Mr robot because he knew he wouldn't go see along with it.

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.

Turbl posted:

Maybe hes supposed to frame someone else for the attack? Say he was kidnapped and he finally escaped trying to warn people but I dont know why hed be okay with that instead of fleeing the country like he was promised before

He wasn't okay with it, he was really pissed off. The note probably explained how they cops were coming and he wouldn't get away. They have agents in the FBI, in the NYPD, and in prison. The implied threat doesn't even need to be stated.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



JitteryComa posted:

I figure the 71 other buildings was the workaround Tyrell came up with to deal with Elliot rerouting all the paper records to those buildings.
It's this. Tyrell requested "the full power of the dark army" and that's what he got. Tyrell had zero contact with Elliot and Mr. Robot after this point occurred.

For giving this information, I would like some in return. What was the point of the HMS backup that Angela retrieved? There are better plot-hole questions out there like "why did they expect/need Elliot to do it" and "did that task actually help accomplish anything at all" but let's stick with the simpler "what's the point of that?"

CheddarGoblin
Jan 12, 2005
oh

Harminoff posted:

Pretty sure Elliot told Tyrell the new plan.

Er you mean Irving, right?


JitteryComa posted:

I figure the 71 other buildings was the workaround Tyrell came up with to deal with Elliot rerouting all the paper records to those buildings.

Yeah this makes sense.

Also now I'm remembering back to the conversation between Whiterose and the conspiracy theorist TV guy about how Tyrell was about to be blamed for five/nine and "no matter how bad it gets, it's important that he's seen in a positive light" or something to that effect. I wonder why that's important?

mrbotus
Apr 7, 2009

Patron of the Pants
One thing that really disappointed me was that Eliot never got revenge on that drug dealer for killing his friend. But I guess he was bigger fish to fry now, lol!

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
Question about people that work in IT.

Is one of your co-workers having an episode and smashing their computer or smashing their head against pipes unremarkable? Those two unnamed dudes seem remarkably chill about it.

CheddarGoblin
Jan 12, 2005
oh

PhazonLink posted:

Question about people that work in IT.

Is one of your co-workers having an episode and smashing their computer or smashing their head against pipes unremarkable? Those two unnamed dudes seem remarkably chill about it.

I'm an angsty IT nerd and I've broken my hand from punching the wall at work. Never smashed my head against anything though.

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.

DaveKap posted:

It's this. Tyrell requested "the full power of the dark army" and that's what he got. Tyrell had zero contact with Elliot and Mr. Robot after this point occurred.

For giving this information, I would like some in return. What was the point of the HMS backup that Angela retrieved? There are better plot-hole questions out there like "why did they expect/need Elliot to do it" and "did that task actually help accomplish anything at all" but let's stick with the simpler "what's the point of that?"

I don't fully understand it, but from what I do understand, they had a backdoor where they'd update the UPS firmware with evil explody code. Elliott changed the UPSes so that they would only accepted updated firmware that was trusted and legit with a security certificate of some sort. So Angela got into the ultra secure airgapped computer and got a copy of the keys so they sign their firmware with the actual security certificate so the UPSse would once again accept their evil explody code.

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


I think it was busy work for Angela / Elliot so they'd think they had something important to do. It's unclear how the other buildings god blown up -- if they used other methods (like regular ol' bombs) then everything was basically a red herring because they were supposed to believe all the records were in one place. If A+E weren't occupied by SOMEthing they might have had time to figure out the actual plan was elsewhere.

n.. posted:

Also now I'm remembering back to the conversation between Whiterose and the conspiracy theorist TV guy about how Tyrell was about to be blamed for five/nine and "no matter how bad it gets, it's important that he's seen in a positive light" or something to that effect. I wonder why that's important?

We don't know yet, but also remember the handcuff he left -- they were setting it up to look like he was imprisoned and wanted to warn about the attack but just didn't escape in time.

JitteryComa
Nov 6, 2012

DaveKap posted:

It's this. Tyrell requested "the full power of the dark army" and that's what he got. Tyrell had zero contact with Elliot and Mr. Robot after this point occurred.

For giving this information, I would like some in return. What was the point of the HMS backup that Angela retrieved? There are better plot-hole questions out there like "why did they expect/need Elliot to do it" and "did that task actually help accomplish anything at all" but let's stick with the simpler "what's the point of that?"

Maybe there's some sort of digital signature they're gonna use to frame Elliot for the attacks? Assuming it was the same UPS plan they used to blow up those other buildings. Seems pretty clear at least they know he's no longer trustworthy.

geeves
Sep 16, 2004

PhazonLink posted:

Question about people that work in IT.

Is one of your co-workers having an episode and smashing their computer or smashing their head against pipes unremarkable? Those two unnamed dudes seem remarkably chill about it.

A former coworker developed tourettes and OCD and went to check his blood pressure 3-4 times per day.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES
They covered more ground in two episodes than all of season 2

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

PhazonLink posted:

Question about people that work in IT.

Is one of your co-workers having an episode and smashing their computer or smashing their head against pipes unremarkable? Those two unnamed dudes seem remarkably chill about it.

at my last job i hated my coworkers enough i would not have cared if they started self harming. certainly wouldn't intervene.

reversefungi
Nov 27, 2003

Master of the high hat!
Totally forgot about the particle collider at the beginning of the season, didn't register it. Right before the start of the dialogue with Whiterose, there's a random scientist guiding some other folks around and he says the following:

Random Scientist Dude posted:

"As I was saying, If I close my eyes, I can imagine that everything we experience, everything we see, think, and do, is unfolding simultaneously in a parallel universe. And if so, how many copies of ourselves exist, and might our mental states be conjoined, for better or worse?"

Feels too elaborate to be just some throwaway thing. I hadn't even thought about it until reading this thread, but it feels quite possible that there might be some sort of sci-fi time-traveling/parallel-universe-hopping aspect that is getting ready to unfold. Maybe that's why Angela doesn't think anyone is going to die, because of some sort of understanding of infinite parallel universes? Not sure how this ties into China or Whiterose's overarching ambitions, but it doesn't feel totally out of the realm of possibility. :tinfoil:

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
The brain is a quantum computer.

Holy goddamn that episode was the good stuff. I can only imagine how insane the next 4 are gonna be.

Kabuki Shipoopi
Jun 22, 2007

If I fall, you don't get the head, right? If you lose the head, you're fucked!

The Dark Wind posted:

Totally forgot about the particle collider at the beginning of the season, didn't register it. Right before the start of the dialogue with Whiterose, there's a random scientist guiding some other folks around and he says the following:


Feels too elaborate to be just some throwaway thing. I hadn't even thought about it until reading this thread, but it feels quite possible that there might be some sort of sci-fi time-traveling/parallel-universe-hopping aspect that is getting ready to unfold. Maybe that's why Angela doesn't think anyone is going to die, because of some sort of understanding of infinite parallel universes? Not sure how this ties into China or Whiterose's overarching ambitions, but it doesn't feel totally out of the realm of possibility. :tinfoil:

Angela could just have been lied to and used as a pawn to undo what Elliot did. She is convincing herself she is doing the right thing because she is trying to avenge her mom.

As soon as anyone in this show speaks in a cryptic and existential fashion, it gets taken extremely literally. If the particle accelerator is in fact part of a time travel machine, how are they going to explain that in any real world sort of way without sounding like hackers explaining the internet in a movie in the 80s?

"You see, the particles collide and create black holes from which distribute protofluons through a gravity flux capacitor, which in turn is harnessed by this machine we've built that opens a gate to another dimension. :smug:"

Why bother being so accurate with the hacking, if you're going to just pretend a big complicated machine like a particle accelerator can alter reality and or time travel? That would poo on all the work they put into making the show seem plausible.

Unless the "other reality/dimension" ...

is ours.

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maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

Kabuki Shipoopi posted:

Why bother being so accurate with the hacking, if you're going to just pretend a big complicated machine like a particle accelerator can alter reality and or time travel? That would poo on all the work they put into making the show seem plausible.

Unless the "other reality/dimension" ...

is ours.

Well they play fast and loose with psychiatry... the whole split personality thing is totally Hollywood.

Ive gotten a strong Lynch vibe at a couple points but Im hoping they dont go down that road.

Whats more likely IMHO is a quantum computer or some sort of simulation that can predict the future in a we ran several scenarios and this one seems statistically likely

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