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Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

The more you kick against the pricks, the more you suffer.

Elias_Maluco posted:

Excelent episode, but there's one thing I dont understand: why Elliot and Darlene arent arresteddead?


Seems like weird loose ends for the Dark Army to let dangle.

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BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Usually a TV show really starts fumbling balls and jumping sharks when it has to throw in a child character for any significant screentime for any reason and, to be honest, about halfway through this episode I was kinda feeling those fumbled balls and jumped sharks. It really didn't help that the kid was acting way too...like, needy and juvenile for the average child of that age to act. I really like children. I really don't like children on television. :v:

Still though. The episode ended up turning over a pretty great leaf when all was said and done and I finally "got" what it was going for, so kudos to that.

Harminoff posted:

Guy at the movie theatre saw the kid though.
I hate fueling any THIS CHARACTER IS IMAGINARY theories, but the nature of Elliot's psychoses is such that he could very well imagine that the usher said that, in order to self-confirm his own delusional mindframe.

And honestly, I halfway hope that this kid was just a figment of Elliot's mind because gently caress I found him annoying. :sweatdrop: In a lot of ways he totally seems like what Elliot might imagine a child of that age to act like instead of, y'know, how any actual human child would be.

BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Dec 2, 2017

Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014



Can't believe how wrong that person is about Mr Robot characters being alternate universe mirrors of Mad Men characters. Clearly Angela is Peggy and Darlene is Joan, not the other way round.

Disgraceful.

BrianWilly posted:

It really didn't help that the kid was acting way too...like, needy and juvenile for the average child of that age to act. I really like children. I really don't like children on television. :v:

I mean, his sister just died pretty brutally for a reason he cannot possibly understand, and now his whole life is upended. But I know what you mean about kids on tv.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Medullah posted:

This show is completely off the rails. No major cinema was showing Shallow Grave. I was around when that came out and had to go to an indie theater.

the place they were at would def qualify as an indie theater for NYC tho

also Shallow Grave fuckin' owns

Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

precision posted:

the place they were at would def qualify as an indie theater for NYC tho
also Shallow Grave fuckin' owns
The 1994 scene was at "Washington Township Mall Cinema", which doesn't appear to exist. I was going to say that I saw a lot of 'arthouse' films at similarly lovely little suburban theaters in NJ in the 1990s, but looking up Shallow Grave it was released to a total of six theaters in 1994, so I doubt Washington Township or its equivalent actually got it.

Back to the Future II was showing at Alpine Cinema, which absolutely exists, I went to go see Thor Ragnarok there two weeks ago. It's "indie" in the sense that it's a small independently owned theater, but it shows almost 100% first run big movies.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

Gluten Freeman posted:

I mean, his sister just died pretty brutally for a reason he cannot possibly understand, and now his whole life is upended. But I know what you mean about kids on tv.

Not to mention, when his parents are around, they seem to keep him REALLY sheltered.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Eh, you really have to stretch the confines of child psychology to an infinite event horizon to rationalize this kid following a complete total stranger -- who's being nothing but hostile and condescending towards you -- across a whole city in order to pester him endlessly into hanging out for the better part of a day because he might possibly be friends with your dead sister, maybe, perhaps. I know this show often hinges on various characters doing off-kilter, unrationalizable things to drive its surrealist aesthetic, but this is way past a bit much.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

BrianWilly posted:

Eh, you really have to stretch the confines of child psychology to an infinite event horizon to rationalize this kid following a complete total stranger -- who's being nothing but hostile and condescending towards you -- across a whole city in order to pester him endlessly into hanging out for the better part of a day because he might possibly be friends with your dead sister, maybe, perhaps. I know this show often hinges on various characters doing off-kilter, unrationalizable things to drive its surrealist aesthetic, but this is way past a bit much.

Not so much. I have known (and was one of those) kids that will linger around and bother adults endlessly.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Adults, yes. Total strangers, though? To the point of asking one to take you to watch movies? You've asked adult non-family members who you just met that day to go watch a movie with you? Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. That's on a level of dangerously maladjusted where you should probably start getting this kid professional help.

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
It was definitely crafted to make the audience question whether it was in his head or not. Like it's so obvious the entire time. Nobody watched that episode and didn't have that thought cross their minds at some point, because of Elliot's past. It would be such a weak reveal it's better off left ambiguous.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

BrianWilly posted:

Adults, yes. Total strangers, though? To the point of asking one to take you to watch movies? You've asked adult non-family members who you just met that day to go watch a movie with you? Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. That's on a level of dangerously maladjusted where you should probably start getting this kid professional help.

He wasn't a total stranger. He was a friend of his sister. (And, keep in mind, my youthful days were in a slightly less dangerous time. Disappearing all day to go run around was common. And we didn't have cell phones.)

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



My issue with the kid is that the entire scene with them on the beach made me really like him because I thought he was being a wise-rear end to Elliot for not explaining his connection to his sister. But as time goes on he starts to just say and do things that betray the wise-rear end nature as he devolves into little kid who wants to talk about being president. AKA: Kid written as child instead of kid written as wise-rear end.

I honestly didn't think he was a figment of Elliot's imagination because I'm pretty sure Sam Esmail said he wouldn't pull the same trick twice. Unless he's dreaming, that kid was real.

Possibly Elliot is dreaming, though, since we haven't had a dream sequence this season.

Kabuki Shipoopi
Jun 22, 2007

If I fall, you don't get the head, right? If you lose the head, you're fucked!

BrianWilly posted:

Adults, yes. Total strangers, though? To the point of asking one to take you to watch movies? You've asked adult non-family members who you just met that day to go watch a movie with you? Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. That's on a level of dangerously maladjusted where you should probably start getting this kid professional help.

This is totally unbelievable, but the theories and other nonsense in this thread is acceptable? We can make huge leaps regarding other characters not being real, even the kid, but a character designed as a plot device to keep Elliot from killing himself is completely out of the realm of possibility and breaks the immersion?

:psyduck:

:wtc:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Hey, I think a lot of theories in this thread are pretty bullshit, too. I even think some of the actual non-theoretical events that have in fact happened in actual episodes are kinda bullshit. It's a really well-put-together show, but it's not above scrutiny in the slightest.

You say right there that the character is designed as a plot device, and in other words, that just makes him a plot device first and a realistic character second. We're watching a scripted drama here, not a documentary (sadly); there's a thousand ways they could have written this kid to stop Elliot from killing himself that doesn't involve doing things no human child would believably do.

Again...this show gets a pass for how unique and interesting it is a lot of the time, but "this is not a believable character that does believable things" absolutely warrants mention and criticism no matter what show or genre it is. In fact, a great rule of fiction is that the more outlandish and surreal your story is, the more important it is to have credible characters and characterizations. Or else, yeah, you absolutely risk breaking your viewers' immersion and having them think things like "I'm not watching a plausible child, I'm watching a child that's written by people who have no idea what children are like" right in the middle of your episode.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
I dont think is implausible at all: to him Elliot is like the only guy saying nice things about his sister when everyone thinks she was an evil terrorist, so he felt a connection and the desire to know more about him. Also, he is a poor kid who spends a lot of time by himself, he seemed lonely. Then this cool young guy comes around and says he was a friend of his sister, just when his parents were about to leave him at home alone again, so he decided to spend his time with him

This episode reminded me of the Quentin chapter in The Sound and The Fury, I wonder if it was inspired on it

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

To quote The Mr Robot Official Digital Aftershow, "That was a really boring episode".

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
I like how the writers forgot that Elliot knows how to pick locks so they can't have him pick open the lock for the kid.

BS. 0/10 show.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
it's extremely hard to remember stuff from real life in a dream state

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

During the opening speech about deletion, the exact instant he hit some keys on the keyboard, my video went black. The audio continued fine so it took me until the middle of his conversation with Darlene to realize it was a problem with my TV and not an artistic choice by Esmail. Frickin' artsy fartsy shows.

Swapped tvs and got back to it today. The kid did seem too old for how he was acting. But I can handwave it away given that he's probably gotten poo poo all his life for being a muslim and now lost his sister to what looks like that kind of thing. I'm kind of hoping he goes to his parents and tells them his new friend Elliot said it was his doing and not his sister's and that it gets back to Dom.

The music at the end, I was like, is that the song from Bill & Ted? Then the lyrics kicked in and sure enough, of course it was. Most triumphant.

Feenix
Mar 14, 2003
Sorry, guy.
Im going to simultaneously tip my hat AND hate Esmail for how thick hes laying on the time travel stuff only to have it be nothing more than some audience trolling.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

Feenix posted:

Im going to simultaneously tip my hat AND hate Esmail for how thick hes laying on the time travel stuff only to have it be nothing more than some audience trolling.

Like fsociety isn't totally about trolling. And the show is about fsociety...

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


PhazonLink posted:

I like how the writers forgot that Elliot knows how to pick locks so they can't have him pick open the lock for the kid.

BS. 0/10 show.

There's no reason for him to go walking around with his picks & wrenches though, and you don't want to get stopped by the police with those on you.

Big Black Brony
Jul 11, 2008

Congratulations on Graduation Shnookums.
Love, Mom & Dad
As far as how believable that kid was, I've met a kid when I was in my early twenties who was like that, from a poor immigrant family. He bothered me at my job a bunch until one day I did take him to a movie. He said his parents were ok with it but the fact that they were ok with an adult stranger doing that was odd. They were Hispanic and kind of a broken home so a little different, but that kid in the show was just like him, even down to the big dreams.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I don't wanna keep harping on this one thing but like, the fact that you mention that you wound taking him "one day" suggests that you knew each other for a while at that point and didn't literally just meet a couple hours ago, right? Unless you're saying he wanted you to take him right when he met you and it just took a couple days (weeks?) before he wore you down.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?
It's a loving tv show and it was a good, interesting episode. What a dumb thing to perseverate on.

Big Black Brony
Jul 11, 2008

Congratulations on Graduation Shnookums.
Love, Mom & Dad

BrianWilly posted:

I don't wanna keep harping on this one thing but like, the fact that you mention that you wound taking him "one day" suggests that you knew each other for a while at that point and didn't literally just meet a couple hours ago, right? Unless you're saying he wanted you to take him right when he met you and it just took a couple days (weeks?) before he wore you down.

Yes I guess that's right, but really if it all happened when I first met him I doubt his parents would've batted an eye. I always felt bad for the kid, he just wanted adult attention.

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.
I really think the kid was written a little off but not too much on purpose, and it will never come up or be mentioned again on purpose so that we'll never actually know. I think that's a cool choice for the show, but it's going to be absolute poo poo for the thread as it's debated endlessly for the next year and a half. Soon both sides will be talking past each other and talking about how super obvious their side is and anyone but a drooling moron can see that and basically what I'm saying is a preemptive I hate you all.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

GutBomb posted:

It's a loving tv show and it was a good, interesting episode. What a dumb thing to perseverate on.

Not empty quoting this.

Also, when Elliot goes to Washington Township in season 1 it's pretty clearly the LIRR not NJ Transit that they took, does this mean that teleportation is confirmed too?????

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Kabuki Shipoopi posted:

a character designed as a plot device to keep Elliot from killing himself
When the kid said "I wish you were dead" and Elliot responded "I wish I was too" the first thing that came to my mind was "those were the first 2 lines written for this episode."

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Dec 4, 2017

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

DaveKap posted:

When the kid said "I wish you were dead" and Elliot responded "I wish I was too" the first thing that came to my mind was "those were the first 2 lines written for this episode."

Yeah, that's probably true. But it didn't stop me from feeling that that interaction worked in the moment.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend
If the show by some chance takes a sci-fi/time travel left turn, could we please get Michael Shannon as Future Elliot? (edit: even though he's apparently only 7 years older, holy poo poo)

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.
Hey so I avoided this thread for awhile since I was way behind on Mr. Robot but I finally burned through season 2 and 3 so now I can't be spoiled

Dumb question but back in season 2, what was actually going on in the prison? Was the warden actually running a darknet website? So like, he's running it... out of the prison? What? Or was that all part of what Elliot imagined?

And Elliot managed to hack the darknet site... from within prison?I guess the Warden gave him a computer to try to get him to work on the site but that just seems incredibly stupid and kinda contrived.

I do love me some unreliable narrator though.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Zaphod42 posted:

Hey so I avoided this thread for awhile since I was way behind on Mr. Robot but I finally burned through season 2 and 3 so now I can't be spoiled

Dumb question but back in season 2, what was actually going on in the prison? Was the warden actually running a darknet website? So like, he's running it... out of the prison? What? Or was that all part of what Elliot imagined?

And Elliot managed to hack the darknet site... from within prison?I guess the Warden gave him a computer to try to get him to work on the site but that just seems incredibly stupid and kinda contrived.

I do love me some unreliable narrator though.

Yes, the warden was running a darknet website

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.
Grimey Drawer

Zaphod42 posted:

And Elliot managed to hack the darknet site... from within prison?I guess the Warden gave him a computer to try to get him to work on the site but that just seems incredibly stupid and kinda contrived.

I do love me some unreliable narrator though.

The warden specifically needed someone to fix the site. He knew that Elliot had the skills to fix it.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Snak posted:

The warden specifically needed someone to fix the site. He knew that Elliot had the skills to fix it.

That still seems incredibly stupid and contrived. Why not... find somebody outside prison to fix it? You're running a darknet site presumably you know a few people in the darknet. Or you can... hire some of them.

Also if you're doing so well on your darknet site why be a prison warden? As a cover? Seems like asking for trouble to me.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.
Grimey Drawer

Zaphod42 posted:

That still seems incredibly stupid and contrived. Why not... find somebody outside prison to fix it? You're running a darknet site presumably you know a few people in the darknet. Or you can... hire some of them.

Why wouldn't you want someone who you have absolute power over?

Edit: Nevermind, I just looked at who I'm talking to.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Snak posted:

Why wouldn't you want someone who you have absolute power over?

Because its not absolute. A warden can't just kill an inmate and disappear the body. I guess they could kill him and blame it on somebody else, but that seems incredibly risky.

I mean... how did that work out for him?

In the end the Warden just kinda let Elliot contact the Feds, so I guess you could say he wanted to get caught from the very beginning but that just seems ultra contrived.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene

Zaphod42 posted:

Because its not absolute. A warden can't just kill an inmate and disappear the body. I guess they could kill him and blame it on somebody else, but that seems incredibly risky.

I mean... how did that work out for him?

In the end the Warden just kinda let Elliot contact the Feds, so I guess you could say he wanted to get caught from the very beginning but that just seems ultra contrived.

as opposed to someone who he would hire... whom killing would be much more difficult... and who could be a Fed.

You keep talking about contrived stuff but your analysis is poo poo

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Zaphod42 posted:

That still seems incredibly stupid and contrived. Why not... find somebody outside prison to fix it? You're running a darknet site presumably you know a few people in the darknet. Or you can... hire some of them.

He did. The guy wanst able to fix it. Then he found that he had this pro-hacker in his very own prison and decided to hire him

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DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



CloFan posted:

Ooh Red Wheelbarrow got hacked: https://www.red-wheelbarrow.com/
This got almost zero attention when it was posted but it's worth looking at considering the message seems to specifically call out whiterose. The idea that someone would do that is kinda ridiculous considering her and her army's omniscience in the show.

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