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KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



I missed the ending with vera.

I dunno how I feel about this finale.

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Lovechop
Feb 1, 2005

cheers mate

oatgan posted:

was he listening to fiona apple

this is precisely why he owns

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Varam posted:

No, I don't think Whiterose and the Dark Army are going to suddenly be written out of the show.
Neither do I. I meant I wonder if they'll keep "dropping hints" that time travel and alternate dimensions are a reality, not removing entire players.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Whiterose's scene in the tub pretty much confirms that she was telling the truth to Angela. I think alternate dimension fuckery is probably coming up, but I'm sure Esmail will find a way to keep it relatively grounded within the show's world

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

Can I just say that I love this show's inclusion of queer characters? We've got two live lesbians, one dead gay dude (whose death was entirely unrelated to being queer) the quasi-antagonist is a trans woman of color, and none of this is played up for diversity bingo points in the show. Heck, Darlene's new pal is a trans sex worker, and she was introduced with dignity and pointed out some of Darlene's bullshit. I'm not generally a watcher of network television, is this level of inclusion common nowadays?

Ehud
Sep 19, 2003

football.

HorseRenoir posted:

Whiterose's scene in the tub pretty much confirms that she was telling the truth to Angela. I think alternate dimension fuckery is probably coming up, but I'm sure Esmail will find a way to keep it relatively grounded within the show's world

Eh, I dunno. Price told Angela that White Rose is delusional. She might actually believe she can do those things, even to the point where she'd tell her right hand man and lover to kill himself, but it doesn't mean it's true.

They could still go either way with it.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004

T-man posted:

Can I just say that I love this show's inclusion of queer characters? We've got two live lesbians, one dead gay dude (whose death was entirely unrelated to being queer) the quasi-antagonist is a trans woman of color, and none of this is played up for diversity bingo points in the show. Heck, Darlene's new pal is a trans sex worker, and she was introduced with dignity and pointed out some of Darlene's bullshit. I'm not generally a watcher of network television, is this level of inclusion common nowadays?

Nah. Most shows barely even pass the bechdel test.

Poppyseed Poundcake
Feb 23, 2007

d0grent posted:

Nah. Most shows barely even pass the bechdel test.

Still too many

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.
Anyone think Vera works for the Dark Army?

I feel like nothing else makes sense.

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
It's definitely an intentional effort to have a sexually and racially diverse cast. There's also dead bi Shayla, alive bi Tyrell, and super queer-coded Trenton.

Ollie was written as Iranian (and named Ali) in the original pilot, but I guess that was changed either when Ben Rappaport auditioned or if Sam decided to include the Iran framejob all the way back in S1.

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


I'm a little mad at Dom for how she ended things with Darlene. :smith:

I mean yeah she just went through some real poo poo but uh blame the dark army, not the lady who told you the FBI was hosed and you didn't believe.

Hopefully it was just an emotional moment and she comes around.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Yeah I'm not actually sure what Dom was angry at Angela about.

kill me now
Sep 14, 2003

Why's Hank crying?

'CUZ HE JUST GOT DUNKED ON!

NmareBfly posted:

I'm a little mad at Dom for how she ended things with Darlene. :smith:

I mean yeah she just went through some real poo poo but uh blame the dark army, not the lady who told you the FBI was hosed and you didn't believe.

Hopefully it was just an emotional moment and she comes around.

If Darlene hadn't tried to steal her badge to get on to Sentinel she wouldn't have had to arrest her and get dragged into the situation by Santiago. I would be furious at her too.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

kill me now posted:

If Darlene hadn't tried to steal her badge to get on to Sentinel she wouldn't have had to arrest her and get dragged into the situation by Santiago. I would be furious at her too.

Dom is now the new Santiago, a slave to the Dark Army and forced to betray her country out of fear of her life and everyone shes ever cared about until the day the Dark Army decides shes outlived her usefulness in which case they will have some smooth talking guy hack her apart with an axe to make sure the next person stays in line.
And she manipulated her emotionally and sexually took advantage of her to steal from her.
Id be pretty pissed too.

Maha
Dec 28, 2006
sapere aude

DaveKap posted:

At this point I'm convinced that all white rose did was show the fish in the tank dying and then bringing it back to life. I wonder if they'll even bother going back to the time travel and alternate dimension bullshit in season 4. It's played out at this point.

Can someone get me up to speed on these allusions (the ones that took place before the season finale)? I don't even remember this fish thing.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
Is everyone working in the dark army under the same situation that Dom is in? Like it seems Santiago was hinting at that. Irving was only doing this stuff to protect his family and his time is done now?

Metropolis
Apr 6, 2006

Harminoff posted:

Is everyone working in the dark army under the same situation that Dom is in? Like it seems Santiago was hinting at that. Irving was only doing this stuff to protect his family and his time is done now?

I think a lot of people who are not "in" the dark army but work for them are in that situation. So Santiago and many guys like him. But I'm guessing the masked guys might just get paid a whole lot and get a big payout to their family if they have to kill themselves. Certain people probably get shown whatever magic trick White Rose showed Angela. Irving also didn't threaten Dom's family until she refused to serve them even if it meant them killing her. So they at least have multiple tactics for manipulating people.

I imagine Irving was a loyalist at some point. He did hint that he had seen what Angela had seen in that scene where he talked about the amazing power of ribs. And he told White Rose's second he "used to be like him" so I think Irving is a long term loyalist and possible ex-lover of White Rose. I think if his family were threatened then he would not also be in a position to say he is taking a sabbatical to finish his novel, no matter how long he served unfailingly.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

HorseRenoir posted:

Whiterose's scene in the tub pretty much confirms that she was telling the truth to Angela. I think alternate dimension fuckery is probably coming up, but I'm sure Esmail will find a way to keep it relatively grounded within the show's world

All it proves is that White Rose has fanatically loyal henchmen, which we already knew. She may have been lying to him.

NmareBfly posted:

I'm a little mad at Dom for how she ended things with Darlene. :smith:

I mean yeah she just went through some real poo poo but uh blame the dark army, not the lady who told you the FBI was hosed and you didn't believe.

Hopefully it was just an emotional moment and she comes around.

AGREED I was like "poo poo Dom its not her fault, don't blame her for the dark army"

That was hosed up. I mean people can be like that, but people are dumb.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Maha posted:

Can someone get me up to speed on these allusions (the ones that took place before the season finale)? I don't even remember this fish thing.

The fish was in the tank during the interview with Angela a couple episodes ago.

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

I mean lets not forget that Dom is an inherently antisocial person with trust issues and Darlene was the first person in a while that she let her defenses down for, only to find out she'd been used and with her world now turned upside down. In a relatively small time frame.

apatheticman
May 13, 2003




Wedge Regret

hope and vaseline posted:

I mean lets not forget that Dom is an inherently antisocial person with trust issues and Darlene was the first person in a while that she let her defenses down for, only to find out she'd been used and with her world now turned upside down. In a relatively small time frame.

Plus the main thesis of the show is "Broken people do lovely things"

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Ehud posted:

Eh, I dunno. Price told Angela that White Rose is delusional. She might actually believe she can do those things, even to the point where she'd tell her right hand man and lover to kill himself, but it doesn't mean it's true.

They could still go either way with it.

Yeah, I could easily see Whiterose activating her machine in the Congo and nothing happening. A big theme of the show is about how people can be blinded by idealism and Whiterose is more emotional and idealistic than she lets on.

Krime
Jul 30, 2003

Somebody has to do the scoring around here.
So... Is Tyrell done in the story?

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

Lipstick Apathy

Krime posted:

So... Is Tyrell done in the story?

With Elliot and Mr. Robot finally coming to an understanding I highly doubt it. Tyrell is CTO of ECorp (in name if nothing else) so I can't imagine him not being around, and undoubtedly would want to gently caress over Whiterose and Price.

AwkwardKnob
Dec 29, 2004

A good pun is like a good steak: A rare medium well done
WOW what an awesome finale. I really enjoyed this season and this show subverted and rewarded my expectations in all kinds of ways that were thoroughly enjoyable every time. Bravo Esmail and cast and crew, bravo.

geeves
Sep 16, 2004

HorseRenoir posted:

Whiterose's scene in the tub pretty much confirms that she was telling the truth to Angela.

It might be that White Rose believes she is telling the truth to Angela as well as Elliot.

HorseRenoir posted:

I think alternate dimension fuckery is probably coming up,

Based on what? The overwhelming evidence of the first 3 seasons?

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

I feel like the reveal that Elliot jumped and wasnt pushed was the biggest thing in this entire season. Hes based his entire character off of that one moment, all his motivations at his other persona and father in general, all of his relationships. It was nuts.

The end goal of white rose is definitely either alternate realities or time travel. That comment to her boo was way too specific not to be taken that way.

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Tyrell isn't out of the game yet. Elliot knows to go after people like Price and Whiterose directly now, Tyrell's too poor to be his enemy. Instead Elliot will lean on Tyrell's old feelings for him to get him to join Elliot's army.

Blind Rasputin posted:

I feel like the reveal that Elliot jumped and wasnt pushed was the biggest thing in this entire season. Hes based his entire character off of that one moment, all his motivations at his other persona and father in general, all of his relationships. It was nuts.

The end goal of white rose is definitely either alternate realities or time travel. That comment to her boo was way too specific not to be taken that way.

That's part of what shook me a little about this episode. Everything between Leon leaving the farm and the post-credits felt a little crammed in, as if to ensure viewers could have just enough major conflicts resolved that it'd work as a series finale if needed.

Krime
Jul 30, 2003

Somebody has to do the scoring around here.
So, what was up with Angela glitching at Price's place while in the bedroom?

Just showing her mental state/breakdown?

Krime fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Dec 15, 2017

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

The more you kick against the pricks, the more you suffer.

Blind Rasputin posted:

I feel like the reveal that Elliot jumped and wasnt pushed was the biggest thing in this entire season. Hes based his entire character off of that one moment, all his motivations at his other persona and father in general, all of his relationships. It was nuts.

The end goal of white rose is definitely either alternate realities or time travel. That comment to her boo was way too specific not to be taken that way.

It also made Elliot's real dad's death retroactively heartbreaking. Though it raises the question of what, exactly his dad asked Elliot to forgive him for.

Kabuki Shipoopi
Jun 22, 2007

If I fall, you don't get the head, right? If you lose the head, you're fucked!

Music on point as gently caress. Starting to warm up to the time travel talk in the show because it's now getting so blown out, it's funny watching people melt down with absurd theories.

I'm surprised some of the bad-at-tv people haven't jumped on the Superman time travel bit yet. Vera coming back is great, and even his line is laced with time travel bait talk.

Bring on the 3000 word theories based upon one line of misunderstood dialogue!

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Also, why in ththe first place was Elliot losing it with a bat. I mean, did something more serious happen between him and his dad prior? Or did he mentally crack at a young age and start seeing two of them, then didnt trust his real father when he came home.

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

Lipstick Apathy

Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

It also made Elliot's real dad's death retroactively heartbreaking. Though it raises the question of what, exactly his dad asked Elliot to forgive him for.

I can see a dad who experienced his kid having a psychotic break and jumping out a window and then the kid not forgiving him for 'pushing him' going full in on 'please forgive me' because that seems like a horrible hopeless situation and I have no idea what I'd do as a parent in that situation.
e: especially a parent with cancer who knows he doesn't have much time left.

fuckpot
May 20, 2007

Lurking beneath the water
The future Immortal awaits

Team Anasta
The big twist will be androids. The house manager at Price's mansion was an early model. He really reminded me of Johnny Cab... hell of a day, isn't it?

Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014


how does whiterose's cups player factor into her schemes

fuckpot
May 20, 2007

Lurking beneath the water
The future Immortal awaits

Team Anasta
Also an android.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

Blind Rasputin posted:

I feel like the reveal that Elliot jumped and wasnt pushed was the biggest thing in this entire season. Hes based his entire character off of that one moment, all his motivations at his other persona and father in general, all of his relationships. It was nuts.

It's child abuse of some kind, right?

Because Lolita, and the split personality caused by a traumatic childhood experience that's as yet unexplained.

Chadzok
Apr 25, 2002

GobiasIndustries posted:

I can see a dad who experienced his kid having a psychotic break and jumping out a window and then the kid not forgiving him for 'pushing him' going full in on 'please forgive me' because that seems like a horrible hopeless situation and I have no idea what I'd do as a parent in that situation.
e: especially a parent with cancer who knows he doesn't have much time left.

yeah it's probably this. heartbreaking.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Krime posted:

So, what was up with Angela glitching at Price's place while in the bedroom?

Just showing her mental state/breakdown?
Glitching? I think your reception broke because there's nothing glitchy about that scene.

Kabuki Shipoopi posted:

Music on point as gently caress. Starting to warm up to the time travel talk in the show because it's now getting so blown out, it's funny watching people melt down with absurd theories.

I'm surprised some of the bad-at-tv people haven't jumped on the Superman time travel bit yet. Vera coming back is great, and even his line is laced with time travel bait talk.

Bring on the 3000 word theories based upon one line of misunderstood dialogue!
Nobody's talking about the Superman scene because the red herring "hints" at time travel and alternate dimensions are just on the nose and overdone now. Thus why I hope they either drop it in season 4 or go all in and just present crazy poo poo. As is, it just constantly feels like they're doing it purely to generate Internet buzz and speculation around the show the same way Lost did. And we all know how well that worked out in the end.

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Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014


The ability to wind back time and undo mistakes is the core theme of this season. Angela wants to bring her mum back, but she can't. She kills thousands of people in service of this goal, and ultimately realises she was used. Elliott wants to undo 5/9, but he can't. He finds he can decrypt the data at great cost in life, but ultimately the damage caused to society is far too deep to be fixed like that.

The time travel references aren't red herrings, they're an essential thematic element.

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