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Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


So I'm not going to directly respond to the Autist, but I'll just reiterate what I stated for clarification for everyone else: you can indeed upgrade Win7/8 to Win10 from an OEM key, one that was used on different hardware, because licensing requirements were less restrictive on those versions of the OS and those rights are legally protected and carry over to your future installation. I already posted links elaborating on this and will not re-post. Also, I know this to be true because as I already wrote, I just performed such an upgrade a week ago. The system is up and running right now.

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ufarn
May 30, 2009


I'll just go with my weird folder name, then. It's all %APPDATA% to me anyway.

Aranan
May 21, 2007

Release the Kraken


Eletriarnation posted:

That's weird that you would have issues though, I have a Gigabyte X58 motherboard from 2008 and never had a problem with USB booting.

I think I actually installed Windows 7 via a USB stick years ago on this same motherboard, so I agree it's a little odd. However, if you Google for "GA-Z68XP-UD3P boot from usb" there are a ton of hits of people having similar problems. Oh well, I'll get through it.

redeyes posted:

They work fine. Try this. When you get to the screen that says put in a device driver to be able to load from USB (or something close to that). Just remove the USB stick, and then put back in the computer. Hit the X to close the installer which drops you back to the first Install screen and continue on. It should read the USB stick now.

The issue is the USB controller is reset or somthing similar during the initial boot. Ejecting the stick and putting it back in gets it back online.

Post if it works because I've seen this hundreds of times at this point.

That sounds like some of the solutions I've found. I'll mess with it more after lunch and see what I can manage. Thanks for the tips and I'll be sure to report back how it goes.

Edit: phone posting. Apparently it mucks up of the USB is more than 4GB in size so I just used a 3.5 I had sitting around. Installing windows 10 now.

Aranan fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jul 2, 2016

Aranan
May 21, 2007

Release the Kraken


Is there any reason for me to make a Microsoft account vs just using local accounts? I do not have a windows phone or xbox, I do not use the contacts in Windows, and Cortana does not seem like something I would ever use either.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Atomizer posted:

So I'm not going to directly respond to the Autist, but I'll just reiterate what I stated for clarification for everyone else: you can indeed upgrade Win7/8 to Win10 from an OEM key, one that was used on different hardware, because licensing requirements were less restrictive on those versions of the OS and those rights are legally protected and carry over to your future installation. I already posted links elaborating on this and will not re-post. Also, I know this to be true because as I already wrote, I just performed such an upgrade a week ago. The system is up and running right now.

Is 'autist' code for 'factually correct' because none of what you posted is true.

OEM licensing has not changed. You seem to flip between understanding the difference between OEM licenses and digtial entitlement, and confusing them for one another, often in the same post.
That's your problem with understanding this.

OEM = OEM
DE = DE
DE != OEM
DE can be used as an OEM license but cannot be reactivated.
OEM can be used as an OEM license and can be reactivated.

It's not hard when you stop confusing them.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



Aranan posted:

Is there any reason for me to make a Microsoft account vs just using local accounts? I do not have a windows phone or xbox, I do not use the contacts in Windows, and Cortana does not seem like something I would ever use either.

It will sync your Windows settings and you need one if you end up subscribing to Office 365. Otherwise, there's no particular reason you need one....yet. I'm sure more stuff will come along at some point.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Aranan posted:

Is there any reason for me to make a Microsoft account vs just using local accounts? I do not have a windows phone or xbox, I do not use the contacts in Windows, and Cortana does not seem like something I would ever use either.

I'm in the same position that you are and have just used a local account on several machines with no ill effects. Been doing it for almost a year, hassle-free.

Double Punctuation
Dec 30, 2009

Ships were made for sinking;
Whiskey made for drinking;
If we were made of cellophane
We'd all get stinking drunk much faster!


Arsten posted:

It will sync your Windows settings and you need one if you end up subscribing to Office 365. Otherwise, there's no particular reason you need one....yet. I'm sure more stuff will come along at some point.

You can use a local account with Office 365. You just sign in when you start the app for the first time.

astral
Apr 26, 2004



Aranan posted:

Is there any reason for me to make a Microsoft account vs just using local accounts? I do not have a windows phone or xbox, I do not use the contacts in Windows, and Cortana does not seem like something I would ever use either.

with the anniversary update, they will link digital entitlements to ms accounts.

this enables people to reactivate via a new activation troubleshooter if they make hardware changes that cause activation issues

quote:

Activation Improvements: We’ve received feedback from Windows Insiders who have run into activation issues on Genuine Windows devices after making changes to device hardware such as replacing a hard drive or motherboard. As part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update and starting with this Insider Preview build, we’re introducing the Activation Troubleshooter that will help you address most commonly encountered activation issues on Genuine Windows devices including those caused by hardware changes. For example – if your device has a digital license (formerly called “digital entitlement”) for Windows 10 Pro from a previously installed activated Windows 10 build but you accidentally re-installed Windows 10 Home on such a device, the troubleshooter will automatically guide you through upgrading to Windows 10 Pro and activate Windows. You can launch the troubleshooter by going to Settings > Update & security > Activation and select Troubleshoot. Remember, Windows 10 Insider Preview builds are intended to be installed on Genuine Windows devices.

Based on Insider feedback, we are also introducing the ability to link your Microsoft account (MSA) to the activation digital license with this Insider Preview build. If you already used an MSA to log in to your activated Windows 10 Home or Pro device, your MSA will be automatically linked. You can use this MSA linked digital license to re-activate your Genuine Windows 10 device by running the Activation troubleshooter, if you run into Activation issues caused by hardware changes.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



dpbjinc posted:

You can use a local account with Office 365. You just sign in when you start the app for the first time.

Yeah, I was talking about an account in general, not so much just the "Windows Account = Microsoft Account" aspect of it.

Jeoh
Jul 20, 2010




Aranan posted:

Well, this is interesting. Apparently Gigabyte motherboards are notorious for having problems booting from a USB, which means my Windows 10 installation stick is going to be less-than-useful. I don't have an optical burner anymore, either.

Getting Windows 10 might take a little longer than anticipated.

You can just put the installation media (i.e. copy it from your USB stick) on your hard disk and install from there.

Aranan
May 21, 2007

Release the Kraken


Jeoh posted:

You can just put the installation media (i.e. copy it from your USB stick) on your hard disk and install from there.

I wanted to do a reformat of my drive before installing.

It's all good now, though. I'm setting up Windows 10 for use. Hooray. Any "must-know" tweaks to make the user experience better?

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



Aranan posted:

I wanted to do a reformat of my drive before installing.

It's all good now, though. I'm setting up Windows 10 for use. Hooray. Any "must-know" tweaks to make the user experience better?

Take a good look through "Settings App -> Privacy" and be sure it suits you. Specifically, on the "Settings App -> Privacy -> Feedback & Diagnostics" set "Send your device data to Microsoft" to "Basic".

I would also turn off "App Suggestions" on the start menu, because it's annoying as hell to have random programs pop up there. That's at Settings App -> Personalization -> Start Menu and "Show Suggestions in Start"

Outside of those, a lot of Windows 10 is nice by default and changes come down to taste in how it functions.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Atomizer posted:

So I'm not going to directly respond to the Autist, but I'll just reiterate what I stated for clarification for everyone else: you can indeed upgrade Win7/8 to Win10 from an OEM key, one that was used on different hardware, because licensing requirements were less restrictive on those versions of the OS and those rights are legally protected and carry over to your future installation. I already posted links elaborating on this and will not re-post. Also, I know this to be true because as I already wrote, I just performed such an upgrade a week ago. The system is up and running right now.

You've literally made up everything in this post: the free upgrade for Windows 10 does not grant an OEM license, and buying a new Windows 10 OEM license (which you have been able to do for nearly a year) does not convert another license to a Windows 10 OEM license - you simply have bought a second license for Windows 10 specifically.

Please stop lying to people about Windows licensing, you're just confusing people for no reason.

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.


Arsten posted:

Take a good look through "Settings App -> Privacy" and be sure it suits you. Specifically, on the "Settings App -> Privacy -> Feedback & Diagnostics" set "Send your device data to Microsoft" to "Basic".

I would also turn off "App Suggestions" on the start menu, because it's annoying as hell to have random programs pop up there. That's at Settings App -> Personalization -> Start Menu and "Show Suggestions in Start"

Outside of those, a lot of Windows 10 is nice by default and changes come down to taste in how it functions.

Here is from MS own mouth what exactly is collected from all that telemetry stuff, it's also worth noting you can go into the registry and change "Basic" to even one lower then that to "Security", I'd recommend doing so otherwise it's constantly transmitting unique device identification numbers for your computers, details of all the hardware inside them and attached to them, and information about every program you ever use and exactly when you're using them, even after you put the privacy settings to the maximum that you can through the UI.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us...ur-organization

This is at the Basic level.

Basic device info, including: quality-related data, app compat, app usage data, and data from the Security level.
- General app data and app data for Internet Explorer add-ons. Includes a list of apps that are installed on a native or virtualized instance of the OS and whether these apps function correctly after an upgrade. This app data includes the app name, publisher, version, and basic details about which files have been blocked from usage.
- App usage data. Includes how an app is used, including how long an app is used for, when the app has focus, and when the app is started

I mean if Microsoft finds it helpful to know what's installed to help troubleshoot OS problems, fine, but knowing how much something is focused, that's kinda creepy.


quote:

Use Registry Editor to set the telemetry level
Use Registry Editor to manually set the registry level on each device in your organization, or write a script to edit the registry. If a management policy already exists, such as Group Policy or MDM, it will override this registry setting.

1. Open Registry Editor, and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\DataCollection.
2. Right-click DataCollection, click New, and then click DWORD (32-bit) Value.
3. Type AllowTelemetry, and then press ENTER.
4. Double-click AllowTelemetry, set the desired value from the table above, and then click OK.
5. Click File > Export, and then save the file as a .reg file, such as C:\AllowTelemetry.reg. You can run this file from a script on each device in your organization.

Really anything that can be done with Group Policies, which Home Users do not get, can be done through the registry.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Arsten posted:

Specifically, on the "Settings App -> Privacy -> Feedback & Diagnostics" set "Send your device data to Microsoft" to "Basic".


Remember that doing that is the same as not voting and then comlaining about results.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



MikusR posted:

Remember that doing that is the same as not voting and then comlaining about results.

What?

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

fishmech posted:

You've literally made up everything in this post: the free upgrade for Windows 10 does not grant an OEM license, and buying a new Windows 10 OEM license (which you have been able to do for nearly a year) does not convert another license to a Windows 10 OEM license - you simply have bought a second license for Windows 10 specifically.

Please stop lying to people about Windows licensing, you're just confusing people for no reason.

Isn't Atomizer saying that a Windows 7 OEM key is good for any number of installs of Windows 10, even on hardware that Windows 7 OEM key was never activated on? I don't read anywhere that says you get a Windows 10 OEM license. Rather what he says is that buying a Windows 10 OEM key is more restrictive than buying a Windows 7 or 8 OEM key and using that to install/activate Windows 10. If you use a Windows 10 OEM key, that key will only ever activate on the hardware it was first bound to, but if you instead use a Windows 7/8 OEM key to activate 10, you can use that key on multiple hardware configurations. Thing just is, doing that is against the word of the EULA.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


nielsm posted:

Isn't Atomizer saying that a Windows 7 OEM key is good for any number of installs of Windows 10, even on hardware that Windows 7 OEM key was never activated on? I don't read anywhere that says you get a Windows 10 OEM license. Rather what he says is that buying a Windows 10 OEM key is more restrictive than buying a Windows 7 or 8 OEM key and using that to install/activate Windows 10. If you use a Windows 10 OEM key, that key will only ever activate on the hardware it was first bound to, but if you instead use a Windows 7/8 OEM key to activate 10, you can use that key on multiple hardware configurations. Thing just is, doing that is against the word of the EULA.

You can do this, but it is NOT because of "changes to license agreements" or "because they legally honour it" or whatever atomizer is saying. They simply don't look too closely at Win7/8 keys because they want people to only run into issues if it's clearly piracy. Their EULA and policy wrt OEM activations is unchanged.
It was repeatedly pointed out to atomizer that what is happening is multiple DE's being granted off one key but he won't accept that and thinks there's sneaky policy changes.
tl;dr he's misappropriated what he's seeing happen and creating FUD

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

nielsm posted:

Rather what he says is that buying a Windows 10 OEM key is more restrictive than buying a Windows 7 or 8 OEM key and using that to install/activate Windows 10.

If he's saying that he's still wrong - the Windows 10 OEM key works about the same as Vista, 7, 8 OEM keys, in that for home usage you can fairly easily use it on multiple computers if you really want to (and really you could do it in business, but then Microsoft will really nail you in auditing if that ever comes up). Someone who goes and buys a Windows 7 or 8 key to do the free upgrade is limited to the hardware configurations they can build by July 29th or so. Not to mention it's pointless, since nearly everyone already has a 7 or 8 key and you can just use that to upgrade on multiple computers if you don't care about licensing.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Khablam posted:

Is 'autist' code for 'factually correct' because none of what you posted is true.

OEM licensing has not changed. You seem to flip between understanding the difference between OEM licenses and digtial entitlement, and confusing them for one another, often in the same post.
That's your problem with understanding this.

OEM = OEM
DE = DE
DE != OEM
DE can be used as an OEM license but cannot be reactivated.
OEM can be used as an OEM license and can be reactivated.

It's not hard when you stop confusing them.

Not sure why you decided to jump in, but as I wrote I cited sources from Microsoft - please read them before commenting.

If anything, you're the one confusing activation with licensing. You're not remotely refuting anything I actually wrote; please show me where I wrote that "DE = OEM."

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...s-10-activation

microsoft posted:

Digital entitlement is a new method of activation in Windows 10 that doesn't require you to enter a product key.

Please familiarize yourself with digital entitlement, activation, licensing, and product keys before spreading misinformation. ~tia

nielsm posted:

Isn't Atomizer saying that a Windows 7 OEM key is good for any number of installs of Windows 10, even on hardware that Windows 7 OEM key was never activated on? I don't read anywhere that says you get a Windows 10 OEM license. Rather what he says is that buying a Windows 10 OEM key is more restrictive than buying a Windows 7 or 8 OEM key and using that to install/activate Windows 10. If you use a Windows 10 OEM key, that key will only ever activate on the hardware it was first bound to, but if you instead use a Windows 7/8 OEM key to activate 10, you can use that key on multiple hardware configurations. Thing just is, doing that is against the word of the EULA.

It's more like MS didn't care if you bought a Win7 OEM key for your own build, then swapped out the mobo or nuked that system and build a new one, reinstalling Win7 with the same key (and license.)

Yes, MS has made Win10 OEM licenses more restrictive [than previous versions] and ties them to your mobo.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...92-0792181a8a44

Andre Da Costa posted:

When I upgrade a preinstalled (OEM) or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 license to Windows 10, does that license remain OEM or become a retail license?
If you upgrade from a OEM or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 to the free Windows 10 upgrade this summer, the license is consumed into it. Because the free upgrade is derived from the base qualifying license, Windows 10 will carry that licensing too.
If you upgrade from a retail version, it carries the rights of a retail version.
If you upgrade from a OEM version, it carries the rights of a OEM version.
Full version (Retail):
- Includes transfer rights to another computer.
- Doesn't require a previous qualifying version of Windows.
- Expensive
Upgrade version (Retail):
- Includes transfer rights to another computer.
- require a previous qualifying version of Windows.
- Expensive, but cheaper than full version
OEM :
OEM versions of Windows are identical to Full License Retail versions except for the following:
- OEM versions do not offer any free Microsoft direct support from Microsoft support personnel
- OEM licenses are tied to the very first computer you install and activate it on
- OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a different model motherboard
- OEM versions cannot be used to directly upgrade from an older Windows operating system
What happens if I change my motherboard?
As it pertains to the OEM licenses this will invalidate the Windows 10 upgrade license because it will no longer have a previous base qualifying license which is required for the free upgrade. You will then have to purchase a full retail Windows 10 license. If the base qualifying license (Windows 7 or Windows 8.1) was a full retail version, then yes, you can transfer it.
From the Windows 10 end user license agreement:
b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.

I haven't tried to port Windows 10 between systems because I haven't yet had the need but if you try and MS revokes entitlement due to hardware dissimilarity, you know why.

Khablam posted:

You can do this, but it is NOT because of "changes to license agreements" or "because they legally honour it" or whatever atomizer is saying. They simply don't look too closely at Win7/8 keys because they want people to only run into issues if it's clearly piracy. Their EULA and policy wrt OEM activations is unchanged.
It was repeatedly pointed out to atomizer that what is happening is multiple DE's being granted off one key but he won't accept that and thinks there's sneaky policy changes.
tl;dr he's misappropriated what he's seeing happen and creating FUD

What the gently caress are you talking about, "multiple DE's being granted off one key"? Every system I've upgraded has had its own, licensed copy of Windows 7 or 8, with a unique product key. I could prove this to you but it would involve revealing every goddamn product key in the house.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Atomizer posted:

Not sure why you decided to jump in, but as I wrote I cited sources from Microsoft - please read them before commenting.

If anything, you're the one confusing activation with licensing. You're not remotely refuting anything I actually wrote; please show me where I wrote that "DE = OEM."

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...s-10-activation


Please familiarize yourself with digital entitlement, activation, licensing, and product keys before spreading misinformation. ~tia


It's more like MS didn't care if you bought a Win7 OEM key for your own build, then swapped out the mobo or nuked that system and build a new one, reinstalling Win7 with the same key (and license.)

Yes, MS has made Win10 OEM licenses more restrictive [than previous versions] and ties them to your mobo.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...92-0792181a8a44


I haven't tried to port Windows 10 between systems because I haven't yet had the need but if you try and MS revokes entitlement due to hardware dissimilarity, you know why.


What the gently caress are you talking about, "multiple DE's being granted off one key"? Every system I've upgraded has had its own, licensed copy of Windows 7 or 8, with a unique product key. I could prove this to you but it would involve revealing every goddamn product key in the house.

Dude, none of what you write makes sense.

And once again, Microsoft has not made OEM licenses more restrictive. The very post you link to to justify that is talking about digital entitlements, which are not OEM licenses! Digital entitlements retain the same limited scope you got in the past for the limited-time/limited-computer free upgrades you could get for XP-Vista/Vista-7/7-8 transition periods on certain new computers around the launch times.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




fishmech posted:

Someone who goes and buys a Windows 7 or 8 key to do the free upgrade is limited to the hardware configurations they can build by July 29th or so.
You keep stating this nonsense, but after July 29th, a person who had digital entitlement can still make any hardware change they require and re-activate using digital entitlement by contacting customer support and explaining the change. As long as they've upgraded their current system by July 29th, they can still make any hardware change afterward. And before you try to say it, yes, Microsoft hasn't guaranteed that the allowance of re-activation post-motherboard/hard drive replacement will continue to be allowed, but they also haven't said otherwise. So literally every component except the hard drive and motherboard can easily be replaced and Windows 10 reinstalled without causing a digital entitlement activation issue.

And one of the updates coming in the Anniversary update is an easier method for reactivating after a significant hardware change. Since they haven't yet said a single thing about limiting hardware configurations post-July 29th and we're now in July, it stands to reason that they probably aren't going to prohibit it.

You also like to ignore the fact that even those with Windows 10 product keys need to currently contact customer support after a motherboard change, so it's not like it's any different for a product key holder than it is for someone with digital entitlement. But yes, be disingenuous.

Edit:

fishmech posted:

Digital entitlements retain the same limited scope you got in the past for the limited-time/limited-computer free upgrades you could get for XP-Vista/Vista-7/7-8 transition periods on certain new computers around the launch times.

There's no "limited scope", unless you mean that every allowance/restriction that applied on the prior allowance now applies to the digital entitlement, than sure. But that's not limiting the scope of the license; it's a direct transfer of rights. Don't use incorrect terminology.

SourKraut fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jul 3, 2016

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

SourKraut posted:

You keep stating this nonsense, but after July 29th, a person who had digital entitlement can still make any hardware change they require and re-activate using digital entitlement by contacting customer support and explaining the change

There is absolutely no proof of this, and it's a bad idea to go around telling people this. You can currently do it right now, sure, but that's largely because the free upgrade on any hardware with a 7/8 key is also still going.


SourKraut posted:

There's no "limited scope", unless you mean that every allowance/restriction that applied on the prior allowance now applies to the digital entitlement, than sure. But that's not limiting the scope of the license; it's a direct transfer of rights. Don't use incorrect terminology.

"There is no limited scope, except that there's a specifically limited scope compared to normal licenses".

fishmech fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jul 3, 2016

xamphear
Apr 9, 2002

SILK FOR CALDÉ!

Sometimes I imagine a world where Microsoft licensing is straight forward, well communicated, and fairly apportioned.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


I imagine a world where goons can communicate and understand each other.

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013


Where are you saying exactly?

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


Just did a fresh reinstall on my laptop. I know the OS restore feature should be basically the same, but my install on this machine dated back to the initial public preview and was MBR/BIOS mode rather than GPT/UEFI which I wanted to change so I could enable Secure Boot.

Everything except the keyboard backlight worked out of the box. WiFi, Bluetooth, both Intel and nVidia GPUs, touchpad gestures, etc. What's more interesting is how activation worked.

This laptop shipped with Windows 8 Home and thus has a Windows 8 Home key in the BIOS. Since I was doing a clean install the Windows 10 installer saw this and automatically installed 10 Home as an upgrade on that key. The thing is, I was using 10 Pro which I was apparently given at some point during the preview period because I was not running in Insider mode after release but it stayed as Pro. I figured it was from being an early tester or submitting bugs or something.

Since I never received anything officially saying I was being given 10 Pro I wasn't entirely disappointed that my machine was installing as Home, and I have a few legit 7 Pro keys around so I was just going to use one of those. I tried just putting the 7 Pro key in to the "Change Key" dialog but it was rejected because it wasn't the right version. I found a bunch of stuff on the internet saying to use the default key, VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T, and that would convert it to an un-activated Pro install which I could then put my 7 Pro key in to.

I set the default key, rebooted, and to my surprise it showed me as 10 Pro, activated by digital entitlement.


So there's that, apparently if you have a computer with a digital entitlement for 10 Pro but an on-board key for home edition it takes a few extra steps to get Pro back after a fresh install.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





Atomizer posted:

It's more like MS didn't care if you bought a Win7 OEM key for your own build, then swapped out the mobo or nuked that system and build a new one, reinstalling Win7 with the same key (and license.)
It actually did but most of the time wouldn't enforce it because hobbyists are such a small slice of the market. OEM licenses have always been machine specific and that is generally interpreted to be motherboard determined - DEs are just a much more streamlined way of enforcing that restriction.

Rusty!
Aug 25, 2005

Play Up Pompey
Pompey Play Up


xamphear posted:

Sometimes I imagine a world where Microsoft licensing is straight forward, well communicated, and fairly apportioned.
You want to try getting your head round The business stuff!

wolrah posted:

So there's that, apparently if you have a computer with a digital entitlement for 10 Pro but an on-board key for home edition it takes a few extra steps to get Pro back after a fresh install.
You can modify a file on the ISO so it installs the right version off the bat.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Atomizer posted:

please show me where I wrote that "DE = OEM."
Here:

That's you talking about OEM licenses by showing MS talking about DE licenses. Ergo, you are saying OEM = DE.

quote:

What the gently caress are you talking about, "multiple DE's being granted off one key"? Every system I've upgraded has had its own, licensed copy of Windows 7 or 8, with a unique product key. I could prove this to you but it would involve revealing every goddamn product key in the house.

The reason you can upgrade from an OEM key onto different hardware is because this has never been strictly enforced. You can handily use the same OEM key on multiple setups of Win 10 and it will grant each new hardware profile a DE. All of the above violates the EULA and it violates all versions of their EULA since forever (or at least XP). Nothing has changed, you're just misattributing why it's working.

This is potentially 'bad' because we're in the grace period of free upgrades so any "it works now so it MUST work in August" is, at best, a guess and a silly post. At worst, there are financial consequences for anyone reading what you write and deciding to hold off on upgrades because they assume the deadline doesn't apply to what they're doing.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Ghostlight posted:

It actually did but most of the time wouldn't enforce it because hobbyists are such a small slice of the market. OEM licenses have always been machine specific and that is generally interpreted to be motherboard determined - DEs are just a much more streamlined way of enforcing that restriction.

Well MS opting not to enforce the terms in effect means that they don't care. I agree with you though.

Khablam posted:

Here:

That's you talking about OEM licenses by showing MS talking about DE licenses. Ergo, you are saying OEM = DE.

I literally never said OEM = DE and you've spectacularly failed to prove that by quoting...a MS link. I believe this is called a "failquote."

On top of that, you're trying to prove that I'm wrong in referring to Microsoft's own policies...by quoting a Microsoft-direct source?

Khablam posted:

The reason you can upgrade from an OEM key onto different hardware is because this has never been strictly enforced. You can handily use the same OEM key on multiple setups of Win 10 and it will grant each new hardware profile a DE. All of the above violates the EULA and it violates all versions of their EULA since forever (or at least XP). Nothing has changed, you're just misattributing why it's working.

This is potentially 'bad' because we're in the grace period of free upgrades so any "it works now so it MUST work in August" is, at best, a guess and a silly post. At worst, there are financial consequences for anyone reading what you write and deciding to hold off on upgrades because they assume the deadline doesn't apply to what they're doing.

Note that I have never once discussed, endorsed, or performed a Win7/8 OEM license to multiple new machines. If it works, great, but all of my upgrades were on systems that already had Win7/8 in place. Two other systems had their HDDs reformatted, and the Win7 key from one was used to convert to Win10 on the other; the donor system now has Chromium.

I don't disagree with you about the actual terms and intent of MS's EULAs, but I've never made any guarantees about what will work in the future. All I've done is relay information derived directly from Microsoft, and more importantly, have cited my sources.

And don't give me this bullshit about "financial consequences" for people holding off on upgrades; I've been trying to persuade everyone to upgrade NOW:

Atomizer posted:

I didn't hate Win8 or anything, but most people didn't seem to like it; why are you so attached to it? Particularly because...



...Win10 is actually good except for all the spying . It's like Win7 + Win8, taking all the good bits from those OSs and the whole is greater than a sum of its parts. It runs well on old machines. Honestly, if you're using Windows 7/8, what's the reason for the holdout? Unless you have some software or hardware that, for some reason, 100% will not run on Win10 you have no excuse. This is like all those idiots who insisted on sticking with WinXP; it was good for its time, but I'm not running a 12+ year old OS with no further security updates. I don't spend much time in Windows nowadays but I updated everything I could to 10.

Atomizer posted:

I think you're way too worried about what might happen in a Win10 upgrade but most likely it will go fine. Just back up your stuff and go for it; you can then do a fresh install after Windows activates and recognizes the hardware configuration. Honestly, if your current install is a multi-generation upgrade mess it's time to do a fresh install anyway. Also, what I wrote that you responded to above was specifically in reference to WinXP; I know how old Win8 is. The point was that some people stubbornly refuse to update with no good reason, even if they're running an unsupported, abandoned OS (like XP) regardless of how good it used to be or how much they like it.

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013


Calls someone and autist, posts a million words about OEM.

Tsar Mikey
Nov 30, 2005


When will then be now?





Is there a way to make Windows 10 not ask if I want to keep using the program I already have set as the default to open a file type? It doesn't happen all the time and there really doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when it asks.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



X-Ultron posted:

Is there a way to make Windows 10 not ask if I want to keep using the program I already have set as the default to open a file type? It doesn't happen all the time and there really doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when it asks.

Certain programs trigger that in Windows 10. I'm not sure why as I don't think they changed the handover API, but I have noticed that, too. It's especially prevalent where you have replaced Windows' Metro Apps with other apps (Because the Metro Photo Viewer sucks).

Factor Mystic
Mar 19, 2006

Baby's First Post-Apocalyptic Fiction

I believe it may be triggered when you install an app that's registered for that extension. I believe it may also be triggered by updates to apps that are registered for it, and since store apps update automatically, it may seem random.

This is speculation, not based in science.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



Factor Mystic posted:

I believe it may be triggered when you install an app that's registered for that extension. I believe it may also be triggered by updates to apps that are registered for it, and since store apps update automatically, it may seem random.

This is speculation, not based in science.

I meant apps that send an "Open" command to explorer for some file that was originally opened by explorer via a Metro/Store/UWP/whatever app. Not by explorer itself.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

X-Ultron posted:

Is there a way to make Windows 10 not ask if I want to keep using the program I already have set as the default to open a file type? It doesn't happen all the time and there really doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when it asks.

You can manually go through with Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Default Programs and "Set your default programs" for every extension just to preempt it asking - but that is very time consuming.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


So, I have a question about the license sperging: what's the difference in practice for these digital entitlements?

For example, I finally got win10 just this weekend. Did a clean install on a new SSD. The key I used was the "7 Pro OA" key from a laptop that I'm getting rid of -- it activated no questions asked, no call to MS support needed. (The laptop still has 7 so technically I'm violating for the next few weeks but I've turned off updates on that so it won't try to get 10 by itself.)

At some point I'm gonna rebuild this desktop with a new CPU, mobo, etc, but the SSD that win10 is on will carry over. Based on past experience that means it will de-activate itself. When that happens, will I need to:
* Call MS and do some challenge-response code
* Buy a real Win10 key
* Something else?
* Nothing because new CPU/Mobo/RAM won't gently caress me if I keep the SSD exactly the same

This hypothetical rebuild will not happen until winter so the free upgrade period will be over.

________________


Unrelated question: what are some actual useful thing to do with tiles? I'm not totally opposed to this new start menu, but other than weather and news is there anything functional that makes use of dynamic bling?
(I don't need an email notifier, already got a very nice desktop background app for that.)

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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Klyith posted:

So, I have a question about the license sperging: what's the difference in practice for these digital entitlements?

A digital entitlement is tied to specific hardware and has absolutely no guarantee that you can move it to anything else under any circumstances. The only thing Microsoft will guarantee is that it'll work on the exact same hardware it was installed on

An actual purchased key of any sort will be transferable to any hardware the installer's capable of running on, although you may need to call in to reactivate.


Klyith posted:

At some point I'm gonna rebuild this desktop with a new CPU, mobo, etc, but the SSD that win10 is on will carry over. Based on past experience that means it will de-activate itself. When that happens, will I need to:
* Call MS and do some challenge-response code
* Buy a real Win10 key
* Something else?
* Nothing because new CPU/Mobo/RAM won't gently caress me if I keep the SSD exactly the same

We have no idea what will actually happen, but if you stick to what Microsoft has said so far you will need to buy a normal Windows 10 license or go back to running a previous OS you actually have a key for. Right now, while free upgrades for all are available, they do let you activate over the phone a new hardware entitlement, but they do not guarentee the same thing will happen when the free upgrades get shut off.

It is extremely likely however that a new CPU and motherboard will be enough to represent hardware that's too different, despite the same storage.

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