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Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Klyith posted:

So, I have a question about the license sperging: what's the difference in practice for these digital entitlements?

For example, I finally got win10 just this weekend. Did a clean install on a new SSD. The key I used was the "7 Pro OA" key from a laptop that I'm getting rid of -- it activated no questions asked, no call to MS support needed. (The laptop still has 7 so technically I'm violating for the next few weeks but I've turned off updates on that so it won't try to get 10 by itself.)

At some point I'm gonna rebuild this desktop with a new CPU, mobo, etc, but the SSD that win10 is on will carry over. Based on past experience that means it will de-activate itself. When that happens, will I need to:
* Call MS and do some challenge-response code
* Buy a real Win10 key
* Something else?
* Nothing because new CPU/Mobo/RAM won't gently caress me if I keep the SSD exactly the same

This hypothetical rebuild will not happen until winter so the free upgrade period will be over.

You won't have a Windows 10 key. You will be unable to get to the point of challenge/response on the phone with MS as you can't enter a Win 10 key.
This is why what atomizer has been saying is stupid and wrong in practise, no matter how many times he posts that lovely reply from an MS tech talking about how things work "this summer" (his words) as some form of proof of anything going forward.

It now seems that if you tie your DE (digital entitlement, the license that lets a free upgrade exist) to your Windows/MS account you will be able to 'solve re-activation issues'. Who knows where they will draw the line on this, but it is intended to solve re-activation issues not migrations.
I would personally wager 'the only thing the same is my HDD' is a red flag as they'd assume that the most likely avenue for people trying to port their OS to a new machine; it's literally what activation exists to prevent in the first place.

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Double Punctuation
Dec 30, 2009

Ships were made for sinking;
Whiskey made for drinking;
If we were made of cellophane
We'd all get stinking drunk much faster!


How about instead of debating this on the Internet, you e-mail Microsoft and ask them?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

dpbjinc posted:

How about instead of debating this on the Internet, you e-mail Microsoft and ask them?

What me, Khablam and a few others have been talking to is the current state of what Microsoft has said, unlike Atomizer's poo poo which is just completely off the rails and directly contradicted by his "sources".

There is no "debate".

Avenida
Jul 14, 2015


xamphear posted:

Sometimes I imagine a world where Microsoft licensing is straight forward, well communicated, and fairly apportioned.

This battle was lost the moment we, as consumers, accepted "replacing components sometimes makes it count as a different PC" as a reasonable assertion.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


So what happens if I name my PC "Theseus"?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Avenida posted:

This battle was lost the moment we, as consumers, accepted "replacing components sometimes makes it count as a different PC" as a reasonable assertion.

Nobody ever accepted it, but MS also never enforced it until now. At most they just made you call and pinky-swear that you were following the license rules.

This situation now where they can say "well you got it for free" is the only time they can get that trojan horse through the gates. Hopefully there will be pushback as soon as people get their computers turned into pumpkins.

Icept
Jul 11, 2001



Is there anything to be excited about in the Anniversary Update? At a glance it looks like a lot of tablet / "apps" stuff and I don't really care about either.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




So yesterday I got a new laptop running Windows 10. The Windows version is Greek, which to me isn't the most ideal thing since it makes comparing my system with internet instructions etc. a pain. But I'm running across a bigger problem now; a lot of the system's file system is also translated, which is to say, the Users folder is called Χρήστες, Program Files is called Αρχεία Εφαρμογών, and a lot of things in general are in Greekrunes.

This means dropbox cannot run. It looks for a Program Files folder, and it looks for a Users folder, and those don't exist. Dropbox loving shipped with the machine. I am pessimistic about the prospects, but is there any painless way to completely change the system language?

Rusty!
Aug 25, 2005

Play Up Pompey
Pompey Play Up


YF-23 posted:

So yesterday I got a new laptop running Windows 10. The Windows version is Greek, which to me isn't the most ideal thing since it makes comparing my system with internet instructions etc. a pain. But I'm running across a bigger problem now; a lot of the system's file system is also translated, which is to say, the Users folder is called Χρήστες, Program Files is called Αρχεία Εφαρμογών, and a lot of things in general are in Greekrunes.

This means dropbox cannot run. It looks for a Program Files folder, and it looks for a Users folder, and those don't exist. Dropbox loving shipped with the machine. I am pessimistic about the prospects, but is there any painless way to completely change the system language?

I would just grab a disc and reinstall it with the right language.

Namlemez
Jul 8, 2003


I have an old laptop as an HTPC for my TV. I don't actually use the laptop's screen, just the TV with a wireless keyboard. I figured I should migrate to Windows 10 from 7 which was relatively harmless except for one thing.

Windows 10 does not like having the primary monitor turned off. I have tried all of the following and the laptop's monitor always re-enables after I turn the TV off and on or after a restart of the laptop.

  1. Using the Nvidia control panel to say only show on the secondary (TV) monitor.
  2. Using the built-in Display settings screen to turn off the primary the monitor
  3. Popular Internet suggestion - hit Win + P and click Secondary Monitor only.

I tried updating my Nvidia drivers last week which was my only idea

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Klyith posted:

Nobody ever accepted it, but MS also never enforced it until now. At most they just made you call and pinky-swear that you were following the license rules.

This situation now where they can say "well you got it for free" is the only time they can get that trojan horse through the gates. Hopefully there will be pushback as soon as people get their computers turned into pumpkins.

There is absolutely no evidence that they are enforcing OEM licenses any differently than before. It's always been against the EULA to re-activate if it's different hardware, but it has always worked. MS aren't interested in enforcing this too harshly as false positives will give them more trouble than it's worth. Their money comes from volume licenses to businesses, not trying to wrangle end users into a retail version from an OEM.

The DE is however in theory more strongly enforced. I don't have an issue with this, as moaning that the OS you got for free on one computer might not be free forever if you change PC isn't really fair play in my mind.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Rusty! posted:

I would just grab a disc and reinstall it with the right language.

I resolved it by installing the English language pack (which I'd thought I did, but it was actually just the input language). Dropbox still has issues but that's something I need to take up to their tech support instead of Windows'.

Rusty!
Aug 25, 2005

Play Up Pompey
Pompey Play Up


YF-23 posted:

I resolved it by installing the English language pack (which I'd thought I did, but it was actually just the input language). Dropbox still has issues but that's something I need to take up to their tech support instead of Windows'.

That fixed the file system stuff as well? Colour me surprised. Useful to know, though.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Rusty! posted:

That fixed the file system stuff as well? Colour me surprised. Useful to know, though.

Windows has been showing those folders as the local translation since Windows 7.
For instance going to C:\Gebruikers\ is just as valid as going to C:\Users\ in a Dutch install. It's just transparently redirected.

Maybe Windows 10 broke some of this behavior.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




^ I tried going to C:\Users before I changed the language pack and it told me the folder didn't exist. Maybe it's case sensitive and I typed it all lowercase or something, idk.

Rusty! posted:

That fixed the file system stuff as well? Colour me surprised. Useful to know, though.

Unless the displayed folder name is just a display name and not the real name, yes.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Geemer posted:

Windows has been showing those folders as the local translation since Windows 7.
For instance going to C:\Gebruikers\ is just as valid as going to C:\Users\ in a Dutch install. It's just transparently redirected.

Maybe Windows 10 broke some of this behavior.

This. The physical folder names are supposed to always be the US English version, with applications using various standard APIs being able to show a different localized name.
If you open a commandline (cmd or PowerShell) and list the directories there, what names do you see? That should only ever show the true names.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Ok, a real issue seems to be that my user account's name (and thus folder name) is in non-latin script. Looking stuff up for changing the username I see as recommendations either manual registry editing to do the switch or making a new account and switching everything over to that. Is there really no other way of going on about it?

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

YF-23 posted:

Ok, a real issue seems to be that my user account's name (and thus folder name) is in non-latin script. Looking stuff up for changing the username I see as recommendations either manual registry editing to do the switch or making a new account and switching everything over to that. Is there really no other way of going on about it?

Renaming your profile folder is extremely risky, all sorts of things can break. By far the safest is to create a new user account.
Was also brought up a few days ago.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Alright, thanks. Will that mess with programs that have stuff in my current account's appdata folder and the like?

e; gently caress it, it's only been a day so I might as well just set everything up from the ground up

YF-23 fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 4, 2016

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


You can actually just rename the user in the user and groups snap-in (run lusrmgr.msc), this will actually leave the folder name as-is (thus saving the dumbass hardcoded apps) but change the displayed login name everywhere.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




The problem was the folder name though, not the login name. A bunch of installers saw non-latin script and would absolutely have none of it.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Are we still in a situation where upgrading from Windows 7/8 to 10 messes up the license keys in such a way that you technically don't get a new license key for 10, but you invalidate the ones from 7/8, meaning you are SOL if you need to reinstall or move the license to a new PC?

Asking because I have some VMs on 7/8 and would love to move to 10, except for this issue.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Chuu posted:

Are we still in a situation where upgrading from Windows 7/8 to 10 messes up the license keys in such a way that you technically don't get a new license key for 10, but you invalidate the ones from 7/8, meaning you are SOL if you need to reinstall or move the license to a new PC?

Asking because I have some VMs on 7/8 and would love to move to 10, except for this issue.

This situation never occurred - the Windows 7 or 8 keys never get invalidated or messed up. However it's true you don't get an actual Windows 10 license key unless you buy Windows 10 outright or get a new computer with 10 on it.

You're not supposed to use the 7 or 8 keys on another computer while you're using Windows 10 on a computer you upgraded using them. But you can revert to using them at any time if you need to.

If you want to be sure you'll be able to put Windows 10 on things made after the free upgrade period ends, you'll need to buy Windows 10. Otherwise, you have to rely on the outside chance that they might allow easy transfers after the deadline. And they're definitely not promising that.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




E: I'm dumb

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003



gently caress did I start this horrible discussion or has it been going on for the past year? Anyways, I just bought a Windows10 license for the system at Microcenter because I couldn't be arsed to figure out if I could get one for free. Unfortunately it ended up getting installed to an even older Core2Duo system, surprisingly fast with an SSD. Also hopefully the fact that it's an OEM license won't screw things over if I upgrade it later.

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



So after months of the computer telling me to upgrade to 10, now it says I can't due to a comparability issue which is: Reinstalling language pacs.

edit: and it has a link to the windows store telling me to buy a new computer

xamphear
Apr 9, 2002

SILK FOR CALDÉ!

Massasoit posted:

So after months of the computer telling me to upgrade to 10, now it says I can't due to a comparability issue which is: Reinstalling language pacs.

edit: and it has a link to the windows store telling me to buy a new computer
Yes? And? Did you? What new computer did you decide to go with?

404notfound
Mar 5, 2006

stop staring at me



Any good recipe apps on the store? Preferably something with some sort of hands-free mode.

I really wish the app ecosystem were a little better. Even Microsoft's own poo poo's broke; I downloaded a bunch of casual games like Solitaire and Minesweeper, and only the very recently updated ones (tile says "Xbox Live" across the top instead of just "Xbox") can sign in to your Xbox account.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



xamphear posted:

Yes? And? Did you? What new computer did you decide to go with?

lol

Inverness
Feb 4, 2009

Fully configurable personal assistant.

August 2nd is the day of the anniversary update.

I'll probably acquire it earlier if the build is already available for insiders.

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



Anyone have any idea on how I can do the upgrade in place if the installer isn't letting me do it through the tool?

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

fishmech posted:

This situation never occurred - the Windows 7 or 8 keys never get invalidated or messed up. However it's true you don't get an actual Windows 10 license key unless you buy Windows 10 outright or get a new computer with 10 on it.

You're not supposed to use the 7 or 8 keys on another computer while you're using Windows 10 on a computer you upgraded using them. But you can revert to using them at any time if you need to.

If you want to be sure you'll be able to put Windows 10 on things made after the free upgrade period ends, you'll need to buy Windows 10. Otherwise, you have to rely on the outside chance that they might allow easy transfers after the deadline. And they're definitely not promising that.

Thanks for the reply. So just to be 100% clear, I can do the free upgrade on any Windows7/8 PC, and go back to Windows7/8 at any time? What I can't do though is, after deadline, is re-upgrade freshly installed Windows 7/8 instances to 10 even if they were 10 before?

I remember there being a lot of confusion over this, namely at the time (soon after the free upgrade) Microsoft was saying there was no key because the copy was tied to a hardware fingerprint instead. Is that actually true, i.e. I can install a fresh copy of 10 with no key on a computer that has been upgraded to 10?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Chuu posted:

Thanks for the reply. So just to be 100% clear, I can do the free upgrade on any Windows7/8 PC, and go back to Windows7/8 at any time? What I can't do though is, after deadline, is re-upgrade freshly installed Windows 7/8 instances to 10 even if they were 10 before?

I remember there being a lot of confusion over this, namely at the time (soon after the free upgrade) Microsoft was saying there was no key because the copy was tied to a hardware fingerprint instead. Is that actually true, i.e. I can install a fresh copy of 10 with no key on a computer that has been upgraded to 10?

Yes you can go back to Windows 7 or 8 at any time (though you'll probably have to fully reinstall them, if you didn't keep a backup. A backup is automatically created when you install Windows 10 but that will be removed from your drive after a while because it takes up a lot of space). You can also return to Windows 10 on a system that previously had the free upgrade, so long as your hardware doesn't change too much. So for instance, if you just change the graphics card out you'll probably be fine, but if you change the whole motherboard to another one it won't be fine.

Currently if you want to install Windows 10 on such a computer, you just need to have a valid Windows 7 or 8 to input on that computer, if you don't already have an activated copy of 7 or 8 on the drive in question. So long as you have that, and it was previously upgraded before the deadline, it's fine.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

fishmech posted:

Yes you can go back to Windows 7 or 8 at any time (though you'll probably have to fully reinstall them, if you didn't keep a backup. A backup is automatically created when you install Windows 10 but that will be removed from your drive after a while because it takes up a lot of space). You can also return to Windows 10 on a system that previously had the free upgrade, so long as your hardware doesn't change too much. So for instance, if you just change the graphics card out you'll probably be fine, but if you change the whole motherboard to another one it won't be fine.

Currently if you want to install Windows 10 on such a computer, you just need to have a valid Windows 7 or 8 to input on that computer, if you don't already have an activated copy of 7 or 8 on the drive in question. So long as you have that, and it was previously upgraded before the deadline, it's fine.

Do you know how the windows 10 upgrade works with VMs? Specifically, if I upgrade to 10 on a VM is that key now essentially tied to the VM image somehow?

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003



Chuu posted:

Do you know how the windows 10 upgrade works with VMs? Specifically, if I upgrade to 10 on a VM is that key now essentially tied to the VM image somehow?

Legally, only if you had a separate key for the VM. Technically, it will install and activate just fine if your current version of Windows is activated. I'm pretty sure if you upgrade the VM generation, though (E.g. Workstation 10 -> 11) that counts as a motherboard change.

WorkingStiff
Jul 5, 2005



Will Windows 10 run native on late model MacBook Pros without Bootcamp /Parallels? If not, does anyone have any tips on getting 10 to run with as little interaction with OSX and the best performance possible?

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

WorkingStiff posted:

Will Windows 10 run native on late model MacBook Pros without Bootcamp /Parallels? If not, does anyone have any tips on getting 10 to run with as little interaction with OSX and the best performance possible?

All Bootcamp does is partition your drive and give you native drivers for the hardware. It's basically like booting into Windows.

If you're asking if you can reduce your OS X partition to a minimal amount, that is possible too. I think you still have to have some partition on though.

beuges
Jul 4, 2005
fluffy bunny butterfly broomstick

WorkingStiff posted:

Will Windows 10 run native on late model MacBook Pros without Bootcamp /Parallels? If not, does anyone have any tips on getting 10 to run with as little interaction with OSX and the best performance possible?

You will need to use the boot camp assistant in osx to download the boot camp drivers for windows to a flash drive or something, as some of the hardware won't work well without them. You'll also need the boot camp application running in windows to provide you with nice things like tap to click and two finger tap for right-click. But aside from that, you can run windows 10 on your MacBook without osx at all. I have my internal ssd in my MacBook pro running windows exclusively, and I have osx installed on an external ssd that I can boot into on the extremely rare occasions that I need to use osx.

WorkingStiff
Jul 5, 2005



beuges posted:

You will need to use the boot camp assistant in osx to download the boot camp drivers for windows to a flash drive or something, as some of the hardware won't work well without them. You'll also need the boot camp application running in windows to provide you with nice things like tap to click and two finger tap for right-click. But aside from that, you can run windows 10 on your MacBook without osx at all. I have my internal ssd in my MacBook pro running windows exclusively, and I have osx installed on an external ssd that I can boot into on the extremely rare occasions that I need to use osx.

Thanks. This is exactly what I needed to know. Do you get a dual boot prompt when you restart, or do you have to load OSX to get into Windows?

This is a totally separate issue, but I have a retail version of Windows 7 installed in Parallels currently - anyway to finagle a Windows 10 upgrade with this install?

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Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



WorkingStiff posted:

Thanks. This is exactly what I needed to know. Do you get a dual boot prompt when you restart, or do you have to load OSX to get into Windows?

This is a totally separate issue, but I have a retail version of Windows 7 installed in Parallels currently - anyway to finagle a Windows 10 upgrade with this install?

I can't remember: is Boot Camp able to boot a Parallels image or is it Parallels can boot a Boot Camp partition?

Either way, I think W7 (pro or home, enterprise is SOL) is W7 as far as the W10 option goes. You can exercise the W10 option, get an iso, and burn a DVD and go from there.

Pretty sure, at least.

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