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nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

When I have not-yet-installed updates waiting, my PC will wake up from hibernate at night or during the day, and then do absolutely nothing about it. It just wakes and then sits there.
It's an extremely passive-agressive way of telling me "you should install updates".
Workaround is to power off with the hard switch on the PSU after hibernating.

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gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012



The thing that drives me nuts is that I've got a Windows 10 VM I use for maybe a couple of hours a week. I can't just boot it up after Patch Tuesday and hit "Check for Updates" without Microsoft on Windows 10 thinking I'm excited about updates and pushing the experimental stuff to me. (Not Insider Builds, but new builds that just came out that are still frying people's installs for the last month and such.) So I'm either reluctant to just hit the button or VM savestate first and it takes much longer due to the drive image being split.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


I just set the group policy for windows updates to not automatically download & install poo poo and never looked back. Installing updates when I want to do so is infinitely more convenient then a computer rebooting whenever the gently caress it feels like.

Hipster_Doofus
Dec 20, 2003

Lovin' every minute of it.

Kind of ironic. But good!

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



EoRaptor posted:

MS has continually found that un-updated windows installs are a huge source of infected bot traffic, and they are strongly pushing to prevent this going forward.

They have done a piss-poor job of it though. They've piggybacked a huge number of invasive telemetry as part of the updates, have failed to push on application developers to provide a seamless support for session resumption after a restart (including their own in house stuff), and have failed to make the updates reliable for end users, frequently issuing bunk updates that impact a significant number of users.

They are not making the case for frequent updates, and are instead just taking away control of peoples own computers, and they keep doubling down on it.

The anonymized telemetry lets them better understand what is going on at the endpoint, be it updates throwing errors on install or simply not being rebooted by the user to finish applying. Firing these updates on an installation base as diverse as Windows without a feedback mechanism would be idiotic, especially with their move to more rapid build iterations.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

EoRaptor posted:

...have failed to push on application developers to provide a seamless support for session resumption after a restart (including their own in house stuff)...

I would have never believed that this was possible until MacOS started doing that thing where really, if you weren't paying close attention, you'd never know that your machine had updated in the middle of the night and restarted. Fairly magical.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

BangersInMyKnickers posted:

anonymized telemetry

is not a thing, really.

Also, all people want is the ability to opt-out. There's a lot of green zone to give people more latitude on update management and how much information they want to give Microsoft.

They're just sliding inexorably toward Windows-as-an-Advertising-and-Data-Mining-Platform(WAAAADMP) and it's counter-productive to consider the wants of the product too heavily.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



AlternateAccount posted:

is not a thing, really.

Also, all people want is the ability to opt-out. There's a lot of green zone to give people more latitude on update management and how much information they want to give Microsoft.

They're just sliding inexorably toward Windows-as-an-Advertising-and-Data-Mining-Platform(WAAAADMP) and it's counter-productive to consider the wants of the product too heavily.

^

If you're not paying for it, (as so many of us did when we took advantage of the previous version -> 10 upgrade, or maybe in Microsoft's eyes, they think that you should be paying a subscription on your OS) you become the product.

Unfortunately, Microsoft seems to be hell-bent on turning ALL of us into product, whether we paid for our 10 licenses fair and square or not. But of course, they get to write the licenses, so "fair and square" doesn't even come into it.

Either way, it's totally fucky, and I can't wait to build that new computer so I can cram Windows into its own tiny little VM where it can't hurt anyone anymore.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Aug 16, 2019

MagusDraco
Nov 11, 2011

even speedwagon was trolled


Huh, the 1903 update removed the ability to automatically change display brightness when on battery mode. There's a brightness slider in the action center but I guess the idea is for you to manually adjust that when you unplug the laptop.

This is such a weird change.

MagusDraco fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Aug 16, 2019

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


BangersInMyKnickers posted:

The anonymized telemetry lets them better understand what is going on at the endpoint, be it updates throwing errors on install or simply not being rebooted by the user to finish applying. Firing these updates on an installation base as diverse as Windows without a feedback mechanism would be idiotic, especially with their move to more rapid build iterations.

I keep hearing this, but to be honest I am seeing gently caress all being done with it.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



Mr Shiny Pants posted:

I keep hearing this, but to be honest I am seeing gently caress all being done with it.

Just this week there is a huge snafu with SEP clients nuking OS system files due to the change to SHA2 signing and I would put money on MS pulling a shitload of telemetry once they got a rough idea of what was going on. Those systems are now blocked from apply OS updates until Symantec provides a fix. Doing that blind would be a nightmare.

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

My sole partiality is to that delectable spiced meat. Any additional confederation of vegetables shall not compromise the pie as I see it.

Raygereio posted:

I just set the group policy for windows updates to not automatically download & install poo poo and never looked back. Installing updates when I want to do so is infinitely more convenient then a computer rebooting whenever the gently caress it feels like.

Pretty much same. I will tell Windows when it's a good time to update, not vice versa. The computer exists in my life to make certain tasks easier, if it can't do that because it decided it needs to install an update RIGHT NOW with no cancel button, it has failed at its primary function.


AlternateAccount posted:

Also, all people want is the ability to opt-out. There's a lot of green zone to give people more latitude on update management and how much information they want to give Microsoft.

Plus there are ALWAYS ways to opt-out; they're just a lot more nuclear. Refusing to provide intermediate options, like the "queue updates for approval" model every previous windows version has, just pushes people to hard disable the service or whatever other workaround, at which point they're far less likely to turn it back on. Security!

Hipster_Doofus
Dec 20, 2003

Lovin' every minute of it.

Javid posted:

Pretty much same. I will tell Windows when it's a good time to update, not vice versa. The computer exists in my life to make certain tasks easier, if it can't do that because it decided it needs to install an update RIGHT NOW with no cancel button, it has failed at its primary function.

Such a simple thing that would go a long way toward appeasing users would be this. Have it say something like "Postpone for 24 hours. This computer is currently in use."

Ugh I can already hear fishmech's argument against this.

xylo
Feb 21, 2007


Hipster_Doofus posted:

"Postpone for 24 hours. This computer is currently in use."
This exists but it's for 7 days by default. You can change it to be lower.

Hipster_Doofus
Dec 20, 2003

Lovin' every minute of it.

xylo posted:

This exists but it's for 7 days by default. You can change it to be lower.

Even when there's

Javid posted:

no cancel button

?

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



I've only seen it with a reschedule button which allows me to plug it anywhere in the coming week and a later button which bumps it back an hour. Cancel would imply the reboot is optional, so I'm not surprised it's not there

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

BangersInMyKnickers posted:

The anonymized telemetry lets them better understand what is going on at the endpoint, be it updates throwing errors on install or simply not being rebooted by the user to finish applying. Firing these updates on an installation base as diverse as Windows without a feedback mechanism would be idiotic, especially with their move to more rapid build iterations.

Thing is update quality is getting progressively worse as time moves on. Hell MS can't even get things right on their own Surface products.

xylo
Feb 21, 2007


Hipster_Doofus posted:

Even when there's


?

It's not cancel but a pause. Last time I tired it work on a pending update as well.

Vlex
Aug 4, 2006
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a big titty angel.





This doesn't feel serious enough to post a whole thread for in Haus of Tech Support, but has anyone else had their wifi connectivity throttled after the latest update? Like 0-1 bars, no other change in circumstances, no other device affected.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Hipster_Doofus posted:

Such a simple thing that would go a long way toward appeasing users would be this. Have it say something like "Postpone for 24 hours. This computer is currently in use."

Ugh I can already hear fishmech's argument against this.
The argument against(?) this, is that this is already how it works.
The only time it's forced is when you've already run all the timers and delays to the end.

Given the latest fix is for a wormable remote code execution vulnerability, I'm for one glad there's limits for how long someone can "know better".

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

My sole partiality is to that delectable spiced meat. Any additional confederation of vegetables shall not compromise the pie as I see it.

And that attitude is why people stop dealing with that bullshit and just hard disable updates so they can continue working uninterrupted

Hipster_Doofus
Dec 20, 2003

Lovin' every minute of it.

I had thought Javid was referring to being able to cancel once it's started, which it will do all by itself out of the box.

biznatchio
Mar 31, 2001



Buglord

Just waiting for someone to claim that being able to postpone for 7 days is not enough because they absolutely need to use their consumer-level PC with its consumer-level OS without interruption for 7 days straight and how dare Microsoft get in the way of such an incredibly common use case.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




biznatchio posted:

Just waiting for someone to claim that being able to postpone for 7 days is not enough because they absolutely need to use their consumer-level PC with its consumer-level OS without interruption for 7 days straight and how dare Microsoft get in the way of such an incredibly common use case.

Maybe that's what they want to do with their consumer level set up that they paid for

I have more personal equipment than some small offices and still don't need 7 days or really even 7 hours but who am I to begrudge those that feel they do

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

biznatchio posted:

Just waiting for someone to claim that being able to postpone for 7 days is not enough because they absolutely need to use their consumer-level PC with its consumer-level OS without interruption for 7 days straight and how dare Microsoft get in the way of such an incredibly common use case.

gently caress off.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Javid posted:

And that attitude is why people stop dealing with that bullshit and just hard disable updates so they can continue working uninterrupted
I guess I have a better work : life balance as I usually get at least a short break in 168hours.

Azuren
Jul 15, 2001



Can all installation medias install all versions of Windows 10, and you just activate it with the pertinent code? Or does each version require a separate installation media? I.E. if I'm gonna install enterprise, will a regular installation media for home/pro do the trick, or do I specifically need an enterprise installation media?

astral
Apr 26, 2004



Azuren posted:

Can all installation medias install all versions of Windows 10, and you just activate it with the pertinent code? Or does each version require a separate installation media? I.E. if I'm gonna install enterprise, will a regular installation media for home/pro do the trick, or do I specifically need an enterprise installation media?

You can install it as Pro without a key and then put in your Enterprise key after the fact; it'll change to Enterprise.

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

My sole partiality is to that delectable spiced meat. Any additional confederation of vegetables shall not compromise the pie as I see it.

Statutory Ape posted:

Maybe that's what they want to do with their consumer level set up that they paid for

Pretty much. Nobody needs to justify why they want a device they paid for and own to not close their poo poo without permission.

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012



Javid posted:

Pretty much. Nobody needs to justify why they want a device they paid for and own to not close their poo poo without permission.

Yeah, exactly. Like, the active hours thing basically works the complete opposite of how I like handling restarts, for instance - I'll restart as soon as I get prompted most of the time when I hit a break point in work, but I tend to queue up a bunch of video encodes that'll take at least a couple of hours before going to bed or leaving for work so I can have a computer without the CPU maxed out when I'm using it. If it rebooted while I was AFK and interrupted those, I'd be kinda incredibly annoyed.

biznatchio
Mar 31, 2001



Buglord

That's literally not a problem if you're using anything other than Windows 10 Home, because Windows 10 Pro and up allow you to configure Windows to require the user's permission before restarting for an update, and allow it to be put off for up to the maximum delay -- which is 7 days by default, and can be turned up to 14 days. And if 14 days isn't enough for your video encoding, you can even go beyond that and explicitly, proactively elect to pause updates for 35 days.

If Windows is rebooting unexpectedly for you for updates, it's either because you're running the version of Windows intended for home users who don't know how to operate a computer (in which case you should probably get the edition of Windows that isn't intended for that use case); or it's because you haven't bothered to actually configure it the way you want it.

If you're still configuring it via "Active Hours", then you haven't configured it correctly. Active Hours is superceded entirely by the greater control you can exert through gpedit.msc or through registry settings.

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012



biznatchio posted:


If you're still configuring it via "Active Hours", then you haven't configured it correctly. Active Hours is superceded entirely by the greater control you can exert through gpedit.msc or through registry settings.

Was giving that as an example of why I'd be ticked over the approved methods for dealing with it, I am aware of how to deal with it in those ways and have.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


biznatchio posted:

Just waiting for someone to claim that being able to postpone for 7 days is not enough because they absolutely need to use their consumer-level PC with its consumer-level OS without interruption for 7 days straight and how dare Microsoft get in the way of such an incredibly common use case.

God forbid someone might actually need to get something done. Just because it's not a use case for you or I, doesn't mean it's not valid. This idea that something should only be used one way (holding it wrong) is toxic.

Defending product segmentation is also pretty silly, stop buying into marketing. Pro used to mean things that made sense, like domain joining, not prevention of arbitrary restarting.

Javid posted:

Pretty much. Nobody needs to justify why they want a device they paid for and own to not close their poo poo without permission.

Exactly. No-one needs a reason for wanting their own computer to operate in a reasonable manner

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Aug 18, 2019

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013

Oh? You're
approaching me?


Name me one task applicable to a standard home computer user that requires more than 168 hours of uptime, on such a regular basis that you can't just tell Windows to delay any updates in that instance.

HalloKitty posted:

Exactly. No-one needs a reason for wanting their own computer to operate in a reasonable manner

It's your computer, but it's connected to a global network of computers. Your security holes are everyone's problem.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Name me one task applicable to a standard home computer user that requires more than 168 hours of uptime, on such a regular basis that you can't just tell Windows to delay any updates in that instance.


It's your computer, but it's connected to a global network of computers. Your security holes are everyone's problem.

I hibernate my computer, it is probably not restarted for a week or two regularly. I like having my stuff open and ready to work on where I left off.

As for the other point, hyperbole much?

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014



Where do I turn off fast startup in the newest W10? Having to restart specifically for updates pisses me off when I shut down my computer any time I won't be using it for more than 3 hours and that doesn't count for installing W10 updates.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Sininu posted:

Where do I turn off fast startup in the newest W10? Having to restart specifically for updates pisses me off when I shut down my computer any time I won't be using it for more than 3 hours and that doesn't count for installing W10 updates.

When there's updates the "Shut down" and "Restart" options in the shut down menu from Start always change to "Update and shut down" or "Update and restart" for me. I'm on 1903.

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014



nielsm posted:

When there's updates the "Shut down" and "Restart" options in the shut down menu from Start always change to "Update and shut down" or "Update and restart" for me. I'm on 1903.

Haven't seen that for months.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013

Oh? You're
approaching me?


Mr Shiny Pants posted:

As for the other point, hyperbole much?

No? There's a reason for security patches. You know what the Internet is, right?

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Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

No? There's a reason for security patches. You know what the Internet is, right?

Security patches give my computer autism! Programmers shouldn't play God! All I need is thoughts and prayers to keep my computer safe!

*gets hit by ransomware du jour*

MICROSOFT SHOULDN'T HAVE ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN! *looks into suing Microsoft for own negligence that not only endangered own pc but also those of others*

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