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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Chuu posted:

From reading some articles trying to figure out what went wrong, I thought Windows 10 doesn't use product keys anymore? .

This is incorrect. You only don't need a key if you're doing the upgrade from 7 or 8 and it's during this first twelve months of release.

Installs that come with new computers, or purchased copies of Windows 10,have their own keys just like Windows has done since Windows 95/NT

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Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

Is Security Essentials now rolled into Defender still the best free anti-virus around? Or should I download Avast again?

Zero Gravitas
Jun 17, 2008

Resistance is futile



So I installed Win 7 on my new build machine and updated to Win 10 - and I feel like I've been persuaded to buy a lemon.

My internet connection was working briefly ( couple of hours? ) after the upgrade but at a reduced speed - and now although connected there is nothing coming up or down. Despite others apparently having the same issue, nothing I have tried is working. I've turned off all updates, turned off that stupid p2p update availability thing, updated my wireless dongle drivers and made sure that its not some weird G-band reset thing.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? My wireless dongle's an old Netgear WNA1100 N150. Otherwise its back to Win 7 for quite some time.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Neo_Crimson posted:

Is Security Essentials now rolled into Defender still the best free anti-virus around? Or should I download Avast again?

Do not use any antivirus besides Microsoft Security Essentials on 7 and earlier, or Windows Defender on 8 and later. Unless you are required to use a different program as a condition of going on a school or work network.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

fishmech posted:

This is incorrect. You only don't need a key if you're doing the upgrade from 7 or 8 and it's during this first twelve months of release.

Installs that come with new computers, or purchased copies of Windows 10,have their own keys just like Windows has done since Windows 95/NT

Release 2 of Windows 10 does take windows 7 and 8 and 8.1 product keys directly. After that you have a 'digital entitlement' which means the hardware you own is hashed and the Windows 10 license is connected to that hash.

quote:

Do not use any antivirus besides Microsoft Security Essentials on 7 and earlier, or Windows Defender on 8 and later. Unless you are required to use a different program as a condition of going on a school or work network.
What?!

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

quote:

I used a couple of those tools to extract my WIndows 7 product key (and both tools gave me the same key)

Windows 7's key is not in the registry on an OEM system. You'll need to use the product key sticker off the bottom of the laptop or desktop.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

redeyes posted:

Release 2 of Windows 10 does take windows 7 and 8 and 8.1 product keys directly. After that you have a 'digital entitlement' which means the hardware you own is hashed and the Windows 10 license is connected to that hash.

I don't see how you get "no key is required" out of "you have to put in a key".

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

fishmech posted:

I don't see how you get "no key is required" out of "you have to put in a key".

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying but you can simply upgrade from an activated windows 7, 8 or 8.1 and you get a digital entitlement. This requires no key. If you do not boot up with an active Windows, you can put in one of those real keys and get your entitlement. Not too hard to understand.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007





http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...ownload-server/

The new Windows 10 Media Creation Tool now only installs Build 10240 and MS wants everyone to upgrade to Build 1511 instead of clean installing.

(EDIT: There's a copy of the old 1511 MCT here http://download.microsoft.com/downl...reationTool.exe Grab it before MS removes it.)

ThermoPhysical fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Nov 22, 2015

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

redeyes posted:

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying but you can simply upgrade from an activated windows 7, 8 or 8.1 and you get a digital entitlement. This requires no key. If you do not boot up with an active Windows, you can put in one of those real keys and get your entitlement. Not too hard to understand.

Thus Windows 10 requires a key. When you do it from a live 7 or 8 install, it's because of the key there already. When you do it on a clean install with a 7 or 8 key.. you needed to insert a key. When you just buy it new, it comes with its own key that will be valid for fresh installs forever.

You can't get Windows 10 to stay activated without a valid key of some sort, and the 7/8 keys should no longer work for new installs by 2017 (due to the year deadline for free upgrades with a previous valid license).

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

ThermoPhysical posted:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...ownload-server/

The new Windows 10 Media Creation Tool now only installs Build 10240 and MS wants everyone to upgrade to Build 1511 instead of clean installing.

(EDIT: There's a copy of the old 1511 MCT here http://download.microsoft.com/downl...reationTool.exe Grab it before MS removes it.)

Ugh I just downloaded an ISO with the MCT a few hours ago, for use when my new hardware arrives some time next week. Is there any way to check if I got an RTM or 1511 package?

Edit: install.wim and boot.wim on the image are both dated 2015-11-22, at least they're recent?

nielsm fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 22, 2015

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003


That's so loving dumb. I have a load of Thinkpads here that cannot upgrade to 10 or clean install with the initial build (it gives a startup error/recovery loop), but the November ISO works fine. Glad I grabbed the MCT with the November update before they pulled it.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?



While there are certainly differences between AV products, they're basically meaningless in the real world. Keeping your system patched and not being a total fucktard (i.e. don't open not_a_virus.pdf.jpg.exe or install anything from a popup ad) are a lot more effective.

Since it doesn't matter which one you use, it just makes sense to use the one that's free and built in to the system. It's low impact and doesn't tend to get in the way.


Third-party antivirus also often bundles other pointless replacements for built-in security like firewalls (the Windows one has been good since XP SP2) or popup blockers (every browser worth a poo poo has had one for years).


Basically if you're forced to use a specific third party solution by policy, it is what it is, but if you have the choice there's no good reason to bother with anything else on a personal machine.

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




wolrah posted:

Third-party antivirus also often bundles other pointless replacements for built-in security like firewalls (the Windows one has been good since XP SP2) or popup blockers (every browser worth a poo poo has had one for years).

They need some kind of value add to keep them 'relevant'.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Sheep posted:

That's so loving dumb. I have a load of Thinkpads here that cannot upgrade to 10 or clean install with the initial build (it gives a startup error/recovery loop), but the November ISO works fine. Glad I grabbed the MCT with the November update before they pulled it.
There has to be some install issue that they've detected...maybe? It's MS, who knows. Christ this organization is so schizophrenic.

Users should "Get the update from Windows Update" - ah yes, the multi-gigabyte update which is a completely new OS install. So install Windows 10...so you can subsequently install Windows 10 - whenever WU decides to show it to you.

They do a nice thing (albeit should have been from the start) with allowing you to use Win7/Win8 keys during the initial install, then do this.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

There has to be some install issue that they've detected...maybe? It's MS, who knows. Christ this organization is so schizophrenic.

Users should "Get the update from Windows Update" - ah yes, the multi-gigabyte update which is a completely new OS install. So install Windows 10...so you can subsequently install Windows 10 - whenever WU decides to show it to you.

They do a nice thing (albeit should have been from the start) with allowing you to use Win7/Win8 keys during the initial install, then do this.

The whole reason I wiped was because doing it this way creates a lot of trash in a VM instance that you can't get rid of. Sigh.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Happy_Misanthrope posted:

There has to be some install issue that they've detected...maybe? It's MS, who knows. Christ this organization is so schizophrenic.

Users should "Get the update from Windows Update" - ah yes, the multi-gigabyte update which is a completely new OS install. So install Windows 10...so you can subsequently install Windows 10 - whenever WU decides to show it to you.

They do a nice thing (albeit should have been from the start) with allowing you to use Win7/Win8 keys during the initial install, then do this.

You can still activate with a 7/8 key. You would just install 10240 first and not activate till you upgrade to the new one

unknown
Nov 16, 2002
Ain't got no stinking title yet!


gently caress win10 and it's new thing of checking for "Internet connectivity" on every network feed it can find and then reconfiguring the default gateway on the fly without notification when it thinks there's a problem.

Thereby breaking any kind of vpn/aaa/whatever long running session people might be running. It's like a cell phone now in that connectivity is now assumed to be done via random paths. Wifi connectivity can override cabled connections on laptops.

Nothing like 4th party issues causing your connectivity to be changed on a laptop.

(imagine level3 has a backbone issue causing the Microsoft checker to fail, but all other connectivity is fine since that's across the country - auto reconfiguration happens on your laptop and disconnects your current connectivity and starts the search for a new "valid" connection)

Anyone know how to stop it from doing this?

BrainDance
May 8, 2007

Disco all night long!


Hey I got a question about the virtual desktops or whatever they're called in Windows 10. It's a feature I'd like to use, in theory, but just don't know how (or even if has this functionality.)

I've got a few things that start up when I logon. Some startup by being scheduled tasks. Like I got throttlestop to start up as a minimized scheduled task that launches when I log on. I don't really need to interact with it, it just needs to be running and be something I can check out every now and then. Is there anyway to get stuff like that to start up on the second virtual desktop? Because that would really reduce clutter and make a lot of sense to me.


I'm also getting a few bluescreens on build 10586, they're "driver not less or equal" (or something) errors with netio.sys. Any ideas what would be causing that?

Also, I got all my desktop icons arranged but windows likes to be a bitch when a game switches my resolution or just randomly. Anyone know of any free solutions to "saving" my desktop layout that use very little cpu (I've got this thing about keeping my cpu as available as possible)? It's a big bitch because I have two monitors and some shortcuts are on the second monitor for a reason but then Windows just doesn't give a poo poo. It seems like such a simple thing that should just be a part of Windows, I asked some other people and they said Windows just doesn't do it because MS is dumb, and the solutions they gave me cost money (I'm not against paying for things, but this just seems so drat simple to me, like just a minor tweak, it feels weird to shell out $30 for something just so basic) and the solutions were by a company I remember way back that made software that was cool but I also remember was a giant memory/cpu hog. I don't need/want any extra features. I just wanna lock down my drat icons!!

Edit: For that matter, is there any good software out there for managing multiple displays. It seems like sometimes randomly I'll load up something small like the settings app, and windows will load it on my second monitor just randomly. Is there any program out there that will let me be like "this program should run on display 1, this one should run on display 2" and just some basic multiscreen management? I don't need or want anything too fancy here either, I tried out displayfusion but it seemed like it has too much bloat. It was messing with the taskbar on the second display which was causing problems when I'd run things fullscreen on the second display (which is basically everything) and their special magic display 2 taskbar would still be over whatever I was running. It was too much, I just want some simple, basic ways to manage what runs on what screen and stuff.

BrainDance fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 23, 2015

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

BrainDance posted:

I'm also getting a few bluescreens on build 10586, they're "driver not less or equal" (or something) errors with netio.sys. Any ideas what would be causing that?

IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL errors usually means a buggy driver, or broken hardware that causes a driver to break.

netio.sys is a system component, make sure you're getting the error reports sent off to MS. But it likely also means there is a problem with your network interface, wired or wireless.


As for the "saving icon positions": No it isn't really that simple.

And applications will typically start on the display the mouse cursor is at when the application creates its first window.

potentiometer
Dec 31, 2006


unknown posted:

gently caress win10 and it's new thing of checking for "Internet connectivity" on every network feed it can find and then reconfiguring the default gateway on the fly without notification when it thinks there's a problem.

Thereby breaking any kind of vpn/aaa/whatever long running session people might be running. It's like a cell phone now in that connectivity is now assumed to be done via random paths. Wifi connectivity can override cabled connections on laptops.

Nothing like 4th party issues causing your connectivity to be changed on a laptop.

(imagine level3 has a backbone issue causing the Microsoft checker to fail, but all other connectivity is fine since that's across the country - auto reconfiguration happens on your laptop and disconnects your current connectivity and starts the search for a new "valid" connection)

Anyone know how to stop it from doing this?

This!!!

My laptop disconnects from my primary home wifi and connects to a dead infinity ssid so every 20 minutes i need to reconnect to the one that works, gently caress.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Don Lapre posted:

You can still activate with a 7/8 key. You would just install 10240 first and not activate till you upgrade to the new one
Don't mean to imply that you can't, just comparing two decisions that are diametrically opposed to aiding the customer in getting a clean install up and running quickly - using your 7/8 key for a clean install was a huge time saver over the previous upgrade method, now we're back to that - just with w10 serving as the upgrade OS before the threshold install.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I don't know whats going on but MS pulled the Nov update 10586. Also the boot media creation tool has been revered to 240. The gently caress?!

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

ThermoPhysical posted:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...ownload-server/

The new Windows 10 Media Creation Tool now only installs Build 10240 and MS wants everyone to upgrade to Build 1511 instead of clean installing.

(EDIT: There's a copy of the old 1511 MCT here http://download.microsoft.com/downl...reationTool.exe Grab it before MS removes it.)

redeyes posted:

I don't know whats going on but MS pulled the Nov update 10586. Also the boot media creation tool has been revered to 240. The gently caress?!

Bit late there, redeyes

There are two theories I've read so far:

quote:

This (pulling of the update on MCT) may have to do with a glitch also reported here on Monday that on Clean Installs that media was reading embedded Windows 8 keys to only activate the embedded version, even on PC’s that also had a Digital Entitlement to Pro version. Since the version menu was then hidden, there was no way to install Professional without a workaround that was posted later in the week by MS.
http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/...ate-install-web

and

quote:

The Windows 10 ADK was recently updated on the Microsoft Hardware Dev Center, aligned with the Windows 10, version 1511 update. While this Windows ADK update addresses several known issues present in the initial release of the Windows 10 ADK (PowerShell, MDAC) there is a serious issue with it that blocks the following Configuration Manager OS deployment scenarios:

From Software Center, launch a task sequence that uses a Windows PE v10.0.10586 boot image. When the computer restarts into Windows PE, it will fail when “Initializing hardware devices” with the error: “Windows PE initialization failed with error code 0x80220014.”
http://blogs.technet.com/b/configmg...rsion-1511.aspx

Hopefully it's just a temporary issue that Microsoft is doing their usual piss-poor job of explaining.

I grabbed the ISOs for Core and Pro in both 32- and 64-bit when they became available earlier this month.

Magnus Praeda
Jul 18, 2003
The largess in the land.

I got tired of dealing with Windows not activating on my desktop despite being an insider so I just installed and upgraded from 7. Now, though, my keyboard and mouse won't wake my computer. Pressing the power button does work, but that's inconvenient at best. I've tried turning hibernation off and on and off again to no effect. I've also turned the "allow this device to wake the computer" setting off and on for both keyboard and mouse in device manager. Searching the problem only seems to return that suggestion or stuff related to laptop lid-close issues. Does anyone know of other reasons this could be happening?

Goober Peas
Jun 30, 2007

Check out my 'Vette, bro




A question and interesting info:

Anyone else having to frequently reauthorize your Microsoft account after the big Win 10 update a week or so ago? I swear I've had to enter my password 10 times since.

Got an email at work that we are trialing Win10 starting next week. Corporate environment, 60000+ PCs globally. The driver is a 60% discount on our license if we have x% converted by end of Q2'16and balance of compatible PCs by Year-end.

Magnus Praeda
Jul 18, 2003
The largess in the land.

Goober Peas posted:

A question and interesting info:

Anyone else having to frequently reauthorize your Microsoft account after the big Win 10 update a week or so ago? I swear I've had to enter my password 10 times since.

Got an email at work that we are trialing Win10 starting next week. Corporate environment, 60000+ PCs globally. The driver is a 60% discount on our license if we have x% converted by end of Q2'16and balance of compatible PCs by Year-end.

Man they're really doing everything they can to get as many people switched over as possible. That's a pretty good discount.

Are you using a laptop or desktop? I haven't had to reauthorize my desktop since I signed in the first time, but my laptop's a macbook, so I don't know how it works if your IP changes frequently.

Slider
Jun 6, 2004

POINTS


Can I change the color of the title bars? For some reason no matter what I do they're always white. I dont get why it lets me change the task bar but not titles.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007





WattsvilleBlues posted:

Bit late there, redeyes

There are two theories I've read so far:

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/...ate-install-web

and

http://blogs.technet.com/b/configmg...rsion-1511.aspx

Hopefully it's just a temporary issue that Microsoft is doing their usual piss-poor job of explaining.

I grabbed the ISOs for Core and Pro in both 32- and 64-bit when they became available earlier this month.

Looks like it's a case of Microsoft just...being Microsoft I guess.

quote:

Update: A Microsoft spokesperson says the change is intentional:

The November update was originally available via the MCT tool, but we've decided that future installs should be through Windows Update. People can still download Windows 10 using the MCT tool if they wish. The November update will be delivered via Windows Update.

This is from the ZDNet article.

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

ThermoPhysical posted:

Looks like it's a case of Microsoft just...being Microsoft I guess.


This is from the ZDNet article.

I'm hoping that's just the cover story, because that explanation makes gently caress all sense.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

ThermoPhysical posted:

Looks like it's a case of Microsoft just...being Microsoft I guess.


This is from the ZDNet article.
"Being Microsoft" in that it explains nothing and simply restates the problem.

"The reason we are not offering the update as a single installable ISO is that we have decided to not offer it that way anymore."

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Yeah sorry, I missed that post. Talk about loving annoying. This whole product key business sucks.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

redeyes posted:

Yeah sorry, I missed that post. Talk about loving annoying. This whole product key business sucks.

I finally caught a break with it. I made a Windows 10 image for my company from a clean 1511 ISO right before they revoked it, and with Produkey I'm able to grab the Win8 key out of the BIOS and paste it straight into the Activation tab to get these all upgraded now. Still have another couple hundred laptops at work to go through but it beats the previous slog of doing an in-place Win8 upgrade to 10, then reimaging to the pre-configured 10 image then praying that it would magically decide to activate some time over the next few days.

Imagine an alternate universe where Microsoft said "free Windows 10 for everyone, here's the ISO, it's pre-activated!" Would that have been so horrible?

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Zero VGS posted:

I finally caught a break with it. I made a Windows 10 image for my company from a clean 1511 ISO right before they revoked it, and with Produkey I'm able to grab the Win8 key out of the BIOS and paste it straight into the Activation tab to get these all upgraded now. Still have another couple hundred laptops at work to go through but it beats the previous slog of doing an in-place Win8 upgrade to 10, then reimaging to the pre-configured 10 image then praying that it would magically decide to activate some time over the next few days.

Imagine an alternate universe where Microsoft said "free Windows 10 for everyone, here's the ISO, it's pre-activated!" Would that have been so horrible?

You have that many workstations and no KMS?

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

GreenNight posted:

You have that many workstations and no KMS?

We have 500 workstations and no domain. Don't worry though, I know what I'm doing

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Serious question: What do you use for management?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Potato Salad posted:

Serious question: What do you use for management?

Magic and a lot of red bull.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Potato Salad posted:

Serious question: What do you use for management?

Spiceworks and Azure AD to inventory, PDQ Deploy to dump a Group Policy folder into everyone's C$, like a dozen flash drives to concurrently clone more workstations, BitLocker by hand, toss everyone's Desktop/Documents/Downloads folders into their OneDrive For Business sync folder as a comprehensive backup plan, buy the same one model of laptop in batches over eBay, and Excel sheets. I'm kinda infamous in the IT threads for being out of my mind, but it's not so bad actually.

The Rev
Jun 24, 2008


I'll be putting together a new pc over the weekend and want to move my legit retail copy of Win 7 Ultimate from my current pc to the new one (and turn it into Win10 in the process).

Is there any place I can read up on exactly what I need to do for this to work? Or at least steps I can take to prep. I've still got the original box and everything that came with it. I've not upgraded to Win10 on this computer to save my free upgrade. I also plan to retire this current rig, so I won't be using the key on two machines at the same time.

Thanks Goons.

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


You just install and type the key in. If it works it works. If not you call in to activate and tell a computer its only installed on one PC. Activation is all honor system.

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