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Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


Don't know if I was like that last person to find out about this:

https://chocolatey.org/

But if you've ever thought hey, I'd love to have a command line tool to install apps similar to APT or YUM or Yaourt well there you go.

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PBCrunch
Jun 17, 2002

Lawrence Phillips Always #1 to Me

I have an old laptop made into an HTPC. It had a Pentium 6100 first-gen Core i CPU with integrated graphics. It worked just fine. I recently swapped in a Core i5-560M and its integrated graphics are fine, too. I use the machine with Netflix, Plex, Kodi, and as a Steam streaming client.

I've been working with a bunch of XP and Vista era Core 2 Duo laptops (2006-07) and Windows 10. If you max out the RAM (typically the max is 4GB DDR2 in this era of machine) and put in a $40 120GB SSD, the laptops behave pretty well. Laptops with Intel 945 & 965 chipset graphics work just fine. One of the machines has Nvidia Quadro NVS 110M graphics, which have no official drivers for Windows 8 or 10. There are some hackjob ways to make it work, but it worked out better to put Neverware Cloudready (Chromium OS) on that machine.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

wolrah posted:

Surprisingly after looking it up Intel's actually the worst.

AMD has official Windows 10 drivers for anything from the Radeon HD 2000 series (mid-2007) on up. nVidia has them for the GeForce 8000 series (late 2006) on up. Both of those were each company's first "unified architecture" GPUs which supported the new shader model brought by Vista's DX10, so arguably any GPU from those vendors that fully supported Vista is still supported on Windows 10. Some of those are EoL and aren't receiving any further non-critical development, but there's a WHQL driver for them that should allow them to be used fully.

Intel supported DX10 and unified shaders from the GMA X3000 series (mid-2006) on up, but they apparently don't have official Windows 10 drivers for anything before the third-gen Core i series (early-mid 2012).

AMD does not have full drivers for 2000-4000 series in Windows 10. This document among others explains that they only have a Windows Update driver available which should be usable, but does not allow use of the Catalyst Control Center like full drivers in Windows 7/8 would and will not be receiving any further support.

If you have something older than that, you may be able to use Vista/7 drivers to make it work (also without Catalyst Control Center, of course). I was able to get a Radeon 9550 working using the Vista drivers.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Stanley Pain posted:

Don't know if I was like that last person to find out about this:

https://chocolatey.org/

But if you've ever thought hey, I'd love to have a command line tool to install apps similar to APT or YUM or Yaourt well there you go.

The first thing I do nowadays when spinning up a PC is install chocolatey and then browse through Ninite's application list and install them via chocolate

just ran choco upgrade all, for the hell of it

code:
Windows PowerShell
Copyright (C) 2015 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

PS C:\Windows\system32> choco upgrade all
Upgrading the following packages:
all
By upgrading you accept licenses for the packages.
13 packages installed.
7zip v15.14 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
7zip.install v15.14 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
chocolatey v0.9.9.11 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
f.lux v3.10 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
gimp v2.8.16 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
golang v1.5.1 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
You have GoogleChrome v47.0.2526.106 installed. Version 48.0.2564.116 is available based on your source(s).

GoogleChrome v48.0.2564.116
The package GoogleChrome wants to run 'chocolateyInstall.ps1'.
Note: If you don't run this script, the installation will fail.
Note: To confirm automatically next time, use '-y' or consider setting
 'allowGlobalConfirmation'. Run 'choco feature -h' for more details.
Do you want to run the script?
 1) yes
 2) no
 3) print
1
 Google Chrome 48.0.2564.116 is already installed.
 The upgrade of googlechrome was successful.
googleearth v7.1.5.1557 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
notepadplusplus v6.8.8 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
notepadplusplus.install v6.8.8 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
putty v0.66 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
putty.portable v0.66 is the latest version available based on your source(s).
steam v1.0.0.5 is the latest version available based on your source(s).

Chocolatey upgraded 1/13 package(s). 0 package(s) failed.
 See the log for details (C:\ProgramData\chocolatey\logs\chocolatey.log).
PS C:\Windows\system32>

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Hadlock posted:

steam v1.0.0.5 is the latest version available based on your source(s).

Chocolatey uses defaults. Steam by default installs to Program Files.

If you install Steam in Program Files, that's the only place (absent Steam Mover bullshit) you can install games on your system drive (which is presumably your only SSD, which matters for some games now), and being in Program Files is a good way to break games because games do dumb poo poo like take their mods or even save to their operating directory and this doesn't play well with the program file protection imposed on Program Files.

Don't install Steam in Program Files.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Back when I kept games around on a seperate disk because my OS disk was an 80GB SSD, I just created a symmetrical link between %programfiles%\Steam\SteamApps and D:\Games (with D: being a 2TB WD Black). Alternatively, there's a program called Steam Mover which'll move games betweeen two folders for you to take advantage an SSD with some space (but not enough to keep all the games you want installed).

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Feb 20, 2016

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Sir Unimaginative posted:

Chocolatey uses defaults. Steam by default installs to Program Files.

If you install Steam in Program Files, that's the only place (absent Steam Mover bullshit) you can install games on your system drive (which is presumably your only SSD, which matters for some games now), and being in Program Files is a good way to break games because games do dumb poo poo like take their mods or even save to their operating directory and this doesn't play well with the program file protection imposed on Program Files.

Don't install Steam in Program Files.

Nonsense, Steam has natively supported installing games to different locations for a long time now.



You just have to set up one or more additional Steam Library Folders on the Downloads page in Settings.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Okay, go try setting up a library on the same drive Steam's installed on.

I'll wait.

"why would I want to do that ": You'd do it to avoid Program Files madness, if you can't spare 90 seconds to install Steam through its actual installer, to somewhere sane, like I just suggested. (And if you can't spare that 90 seconds, once in any given Windows environment - which should last for however long it is between Windows upgrades at least - how do you even have time for video games.)

"that's not how windows works ": Game programmers are notoriously bad at actually adhering to standards. You can get all granular about it for whatever system development rigor you're championing this week, or you can put Steam somewhere else, once, and not have to worry about it again. I'm not suggesting any other programs be installed outside of Program Files.

dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Feb 20, 2016

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Sir Unimaginative posted:

Okay, go try setting up a library on the same drive Steam's installed on.

No really, that makes no sense.

Also never had any issues with Steam being in Program Files. Though probably because of these permissions set up by Steam's installer. Yes arguably a bad idea, but really no more or less secure than having it anywhere else.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




nielsm posted:

No really, that makes no sense.

Also never had any issues with Steam being in Program Files.

Oh, well then of course it-

nielsm posted:

Though probably because of these permissions set up by Steam's installer. Yes arguably a bad idea, but really no more or less secure than having it anywhere else.



I'm legitimately surprised Microsoft hasn't talked to Valve about this.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Sir Unimaginative posted:

being in Program Files is a good way to break games because games do dumb poo poo like take their mods or even save to their operating directory and this doesn't play well with the program file protection imposed on Program Files.

Don't install Steam in Program Files.

Really don't think this has been an issue since pre-SP1 vista; changes to program files happened so long ago that just about everything knows it needs to get permissions and does so.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Khablam posted:

Really don't think this has been an issue since pre-SP1 vista; changes to program files happened so long ago that just about everything knows it needs to get permissions and does so.
Hahaha

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





Khablam posted:

Really don't think this has been an issue since pre-SP1 vista; changes to program files happened so long ago that just about everything knows it needs to get permissions and does so.

I mean, you'd think so, but..

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Sir Unimaginative posted:

Okay, go try setting up a library on the same drive Steam's installed on.

I'll wait.

"why would I want to do that ": You'd do it to avoid Program Files madness, if you can't spare 90 seconds to install Steam through its actual installer, to somewhere sane, like I just suggested. (And if you can't spare that 90 seconds, once in any given Windows environment - which should last for however long it is between Windows upgrades at least - how do you even have time for video games.)

"that's not how windows works ": Game programmers are notoriously bad at actually adhering to standards. You can get all granular about it for whatever system development rigor you're championing this week, or you can put Steam somewhere else, once, and not have to worry about it again. I'm not suggesting any other programs be installed outside of Program Files.

Ok, seriously, what problem do you think you're avoiding here? This reeks of "install Windows 2000 on your core i5 so your games go faster!".

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari



Do you have examples? I haven't seen the behaviour you're describing in basically forever. Steam guy is for sure performing a workaround without first gauging whether there's even a problem; I guarantee the overwhelming majority of users install in the default location and never have an issue.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Khablam posted:

Do you have examples? I haven't seen the behaviour you're describing in basically forever. Steam guy is for sure performing a workaround without first gauging whether there's even a problem; I guarantee the overwhelming majority of users install in the default location and never have an issue.

There's all sorts of bullshit business-line applications out there that don't play well with post-2006 program files restrictions. The guy you quoted isn't saying Steam is one of those though.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Sir Unimaginative posted:



I'm legitimately surprised Microsoft hasn't talked to Valve about this.

The "correct" solution would probably be to only have a service running as an account with limited write access to just that folder do all the installation stuff, and then for games that depend on files in the install being writable, have some folder redirection magic, or worst case single-file special permissions, set up. And you might have to write manifests for each game, declaring what it needs.
Good luck getting that to actually work reliably.

If you install Steam somewhere else, you still end up having a user-writable folder full of executables. It just isn't below Program Files.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

IF I JUST LICK ENOUGH BOOT LEATHER, BIG DADDY TRUMP WILL SURELY LOVE ME

Sir Unimaginative posted:

Okay, go try setting up a library on the same drive Steam's installed on.

I'll wait.

"why would I want to do that ": You'd do it to avoid Program Files madness, if you can't spare 90 seconds to install Steam through its actual installer, to somewhere sane, like I just suggested. (And if you can't spare that 90 seconds, once in any given Windows environment - which should last for however long it is between Windows upgrades at least - how do you even have time for video games.)

"that's not how windows works ": Game programmers are notoriously bad at actually adhering to standards. You can get all granular about it for whatever system development rigor you're championing this week, or you can put Steam somewhere else, once, and not have to worry about it again. I'm not suggesting any other programs be installed outside of Program Files.
Yeah, not sure what you are trying to avoid here. The full permissions steam applies to the common folder bypasses everything you are complaining about, while also treating steam itself like everything else in program files. If you install elsewhere what exactly do you gain?

xamphear
Apr 9, 2002

SILK FOR CALDÉ!

Given that Windows will happily let you run an .exe file from your own desktop or mydocs, making a folder or part of a folder in Program Files "Full Control: Everyone" is absolutely meaningless. Now, if you're in a corporate environment and use Software Restriction Policies to lock down running of executables to a whitelist of locations, then yep, it becomes a problem.

Everyone in here who sets up Software Restriction Policies on their home PC raise their hand. Looks like that's zero of us.

This isn't to say that Steam isn't "doing it wrong" if you go by the letter of the law. They absolutely are, and that's why most games installers (like MMOs and poo poo) that require user-initiated updates, install to ProgramData and not Program Files.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

ilkhan posted:

Yeah, not sure what you are trying to avoid here. The full permissions steam applies to the common folder bypasses everything you are complaining about, while also treating steam itself like everything else in program files. If you install elsewhere what exactly do you gain?

I guess one time right after Vista came out a single Steam game had an issue because of UAC. Therefore no one should ever install Steam to Program Files ever again?

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Khablam posted:

Do you have examples? I haven't seen the behaviour you're describing in basically forever. Steam guy is for sure performing a workaround without first gauging whether there's even a problem; I guarantee the overwhelming majority of users install in the default location and never have an issue.
Yeah, not referring to anything Steam related at all. Was just reminded in the vst thread about the drm manager installer from Waves, a major player in the synthesizer/effects plug in community, that couldn't handle this. Newly written last year. Also had a mouse driver that wouldn't function on anything other than the defaults when logged on as a standard user.

Hell, even the media creation tool from Micosoft and the updater to update your OS to Windows 10 crap out with a cryptic error code instead of properly asking for permissions when started as standard user.

Admittedly not all necessarily looking to write in the Program Files folder specifically, but same thing really; lessons which had to be learnt from Vista that... haven't been.

Plus, like fishmech mentioned, all the propietary corporate crap. It's still out there, being written as we speak.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

IF I JUST LICK ENOUGH BOOT LEATHER, BIG DADDY TRUMP WILL SURELY LOVE ME

Flipperwaldt posted:

Yeah, not referring to anything Steam related at all. Was just reminded in the vst thread about the drm manager installer from Waves, a major player in the synthesizer/effects plug in community, that couldn't handle this. Newly written last year. Also had a mouse driver that wouldn't function on anything other than the defaults when logged on as a standard user.

Hell, even the media creation tool from Micosoft and the updater to update your OS to Windows 10 crap out with a cryptic error code instead of properly asking for permissions when started as standard user.

Admittedly not all necessarily looking to write in the Program Files folder specifically, but same thing really; lessons which had to be learnt from Vista that... haven't been.

Plus, like fishmech mentioned, all the propietary corporate crap. It's still out there, being written as we speak.
Turn UAC back on.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



ilkhan posted:

Turn UAC back on.
Never turned it off, pal.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

#essereFerrari


Flipperwaldt posted:

Never turned it off, pal.
You have something wonky there then, because if you are running a standard account and run the tool, it prompts for admin rights under UAC and works fine.
(Unless this is new behaviour since TH2, where I did exactly the above to upgrade some family PCs)

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Khablam posted:

You have something wonky there then, because if you are running a standard account and run the tool, it prompts for admin rights under UAC and works fine.
(Unless this is new behaviour since TH2, where I did exactly the above to upgrade some family PCs)
Fair enough, I've only tried it once and the install with the apparent weirdness is now replaced with a clean Win 10 install, so I can't go figure out what was going on. All I know is all I had to do to make it work was log in with admin rights.

I'm an idiot in many ways, but I'm not the "turn off uac" idiot, anyway

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Factor Mystic posted:

See if BlueScreenView http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html can tell you which driver.

Thanks for the suggestion; I took a look and I've gotten ten random "kernel_security_check_failure" crashes over the last month, and NIRSoft seems to be flagging my Xbox One controller driver every time? Each entry has this highlighted:



Guess I'm hosed because it happened a month ago when I only had a normal Xbox One controller, and this month with my Xbox One Elite controller I just snagged on refurb.

It might specifically be my Xbox One Wireless Receiver Dongle for PC, I can take that out of the equation and see how it goes using only wired USB. It could also be that I'm routing my audio through the 3.5" headphone jack on the controller.

Edit: I'm realizing I've crashed even more than that too because I often hit the reset button before the log finished writing. Good thing my PC reboots in 4 seconds...

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Feb 21, 2016

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Sir Unimaginative posted:

Okay, go try setting up a library on the same drive Steam's installed on.

I'll wait.


I've done this, and it worked fine? I can even select which location I want at install (either Program Files or C:/Steam/etc).

fishmech posted:

Ok, seriously, what problem do you think you're avoiding here? This reeks of "install Windows 2000 on your core i5 so your games go faster!".

There are some Skyrim mods which don't work because of permissions issues. I've yet to see an issue with an actual retail game though.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013

Oh? You're
approaching me?


Programs and apps I have full screened on my primary monitor (games, Netflix, etc) keep minimizing as soon as I click the desktop or another window on my secondary monitor, when they never did before. Does anyone have any idea why they're doing that? Chrome doesn't seem to be affected when I fullscreen videos, so it isn't everything.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Programs and apps I have full screened on my primary monitor (games, Netflix, etc) keep minimizing as soon as I click the desktop or another window on my secondary monitor, when they never did before. Does anyone have any idea why they're doing that? Chrome doesn't seem to be affected when I fullscreen videos, so it isn't everything.

I think that's normal and unavoidable for games running in true fullscreen mode, and is one of the reasons for the existence of "windowed fullscreen" mode in a lot of games where it runs in a window sized and positioned so it fills the screen area with game content.

No idea regarding Netflix, assuming you're talking about the Windows Store app. I just typed this on my second monitor while it played Archer fullscreen on my main.

hooah
Feb 6, 2006
WTF?

Once you've snapped a window to a location, is there an easy way to get it back to its original size/location? For example, if I snap a window to the left half of the screen, I have to snap it up twice (once to go to the upper-left corner, once to maximize), then snap down to get back to the original location and size.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




so what's the deal with Cortana's touchpad gesture activating literally all the time?

it's supposed to be four fingers on the touchpad that opens Cortana, not one finger moving the cursor. anybody experience this?

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





hooah posted:

Once you've snapped a window to a location, is there an easy way to get it back to its original size/location? For example, if I snap a window to the left half of the screen, I have to snap it up twice (once to go to the upper-left corner, once to maximize), then snap down to get back to the original location and size.
The snap hotkeys, Win+Right/Left Arrow, will unsnap back to the original location. You can even use them to 'scroll' through locations on multiple monitors - starting on the left monitor Win+Left will do the following in order: Snap to left Monitor 1, Snap to right Monitor 2, unsnapped in original location but on monitor 2, Snap to left Monitor 2, Snap to right Monitor 1, unsnapped in original location on monitor 1.

Segmentation Fault
Jun 7, 2012


Turdsdown Tom posted:

so what's the deal with Cortana's touchpad gesture activating literally all the time?

it's supposed to be four fingers on the touchpad that opens Cortana, not one finger moving the cursor. anybody experience this?

sounds like it could be a bad touchpad. Have you tried re-installing the drivers?

hooah
Feb 6, 2006
WTF?

Ghostlight posted:

The snap hotkeys, Win+Right/Left Arrow, will unsnap back to the original location. You can even use them to 'scroll' through locations on multiple monitors - starting on the left monitor Win+Left will do the following in order: Snap to left Monitor 1, Snap to right Monitor 2, unsnapped in original location but on monitor 2, Snap to left Monitor 2, Snap to right Monitor 1, unsnapped in original location on monitor 1.

I could've sworn I'd tried just going in the opposite direction, but obviously not!

TomWaitsForNoMan
May 28, 2003

By Any Means Necessary


Ghostlight posted:

The snap hotkeys, Win+Right/Left Arrow, will unsnap back to the original location. You can even use them to 'scroll' through locations on multiple monitors - starting on the left monitor Win+Left will do the following in order: Snap to left Monitor 1, Snap to right Monitor 2, unsnapped in original location but on monitor 2, Snap to left Monitor 2, Snap to right Monitor 1, unsnapped in original location on monitor 1.

You can also use shift+win+ left/right to move a window to a different monitor without snapping

barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




Segmentation Fault posted:

sounds like it could be a bad touchpad. Have you tried re-installing the drivers?

yeah it's just a regular old Synaptics touchpad. the drivers work great for the rest of the gestures and my customizations still work, so I ended up just disabling all 3+ finger gestures for the time being until I can figure out the problem

Lum
Aug 13, 2003



Can someone who is on win 10 and booting with uefi do me a huge favour?

I've lost the Microsoft directory from my EFI system partition, so can someone open an admin command promptd and do:

Mountvol s: /s

Then zip up s:\efi\microsoft and shove it on dropbox or somewhere for me?

Irritated Goat
Mar 12, 2005

This post is pathetic.


Lum posted:

Can someone who is on win 10 and booting with uefi do me a huge favour?

I've lost the Microsoft directory from my EFI system partition, so can someone open an admin command promptd and do:

Mountvol s: /s

Then zip up s:\efi\microsoft and shove it on dropbox or somewhere for me?

Getting invalid argument from that command. I'm not too familiar with mountvol so not sure if /s is a hidden argument or just not valid anymore.

Someone set my dumb rear end straight. I'm not in UEFI mode to see it.

Irritated Goat fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 25, 2016

Col.Kiwi
Dec 28, 2004
And the grave digger puts on the forceps...

Lum posted:

Can someone who is on win 10 and booting with uefi do me a huge favour?

I've lost the Microsoft directory from my EFI system partition, so can someone open an admin command promptd and do:

Mountvol s: /s

Then zip up s:\efi\microsoft and shove it on dropbox or somewhere for me?
I tried to do this for you but at the point where I was trying to throw it all in a zip file using 7zip run as administrator I got this


Which makes me think I can only get you copies of those if I were to boot into a different OS and look at the partition from there? Sorry

Did you try booting from windows install media and using the repair option? I feel like it may be able to fix this. If not I'd probably just reinstall at that point, but you may know more than me about a better solution

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Lum
Aug 13, 2003



The repair options couldn't find the windows partition even though it was right bloody there and vision from the command prompt.

Ended up doing a flatten and reinstall. I'm dual booting this laptop with Linux Mint because I'm sick of the Skylake graphics driver crashes that intel are never fixing, so Windows 10 is just there for games now, so a clean install with little installed except Steam isn't really a bad thing.

Thank you for trying, both of you.

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