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Linnaeus
Jan 2, 2013



watch this gif



and then listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqVZNGcegmY

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Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Dezinus posted:

In the end, this is one of the all time great anime films. I think it's only flaw is basically requiring previous knowledge from the show or books to really get the most out of it.

Yeah. I was toying with the idea of having some non-anime-watching family members watch this with me around christmas time for fun, but there's just a bit too much in the movie you won't really get if you haven't watched any of the show - the basic supernatural premise of the show, Nagato's whole basic deal in general, and why Ryoko matters at all - and I think the fanservicey bits would turn them off of watching the show. Shame, because once you've got the basics of the settings and the characters down, the character work and general production value are as close to objectively sublime as it gets, whether you're an animu or not.

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006





Linnaeus
Jan 2, 2013



http://imgur.com/a/LsidC

ok here's a bunch of stuff from the second half. i don't have time tonight to do anymore lol

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006





Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006



Linnaeus posted:

http://imgur.com/a/LsidC

ok here's a bunch of stuff from the second half. i don't have time tonight to do anymore lol

jeeeeez I am going to loo kat every single one

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


Looping Yasashii Boukyaku as I catch up on this thread. It's such a good movie, and it's so loving pretty. I wish I could have watched it with you.

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006



it's been said, but god drat is there a lot of reflective stuff in this movie

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005



beautiful.

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


Linnaeus posted:

arigatou...

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


Linnaeus posted:

who doesn't



I do.

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006




Mia Wasikowska fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Sep 19, 2015

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006



So what's the deal with this film's structure? Like maybe it's actually a conventional 3 act thing and I just can't see it but to me it seems really unorthodox and I need some help parsing it (not saying it doesn't work, it's just hard to make sense of / put into words)

You could call it episodic but not only does that seem too easy, it implies a greater discontinuity of events than there is.

Mia Wasikowska fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Sep 19, 2015

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006



So it's:
Really loving long
Opens with about a television episodes worth of lighthearted hijinks
Then something like 30-40 minutes of confusion and despair alleviated at last by Tanaguchi
We take time to introduce and even develop the alternate characters before
Kyons first big decision leads him back to Tanabata c/o Yuki and there's about an episodes worth of mikuru content before we finally head to
Yuki's where the plot at last begins to come into focus

And I'm gonna just quit now because there are still like 4 or more discreetly connected vital sets of events

How on earth does it hold together???

Mia Wasikowska fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Sep 19, 2015

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006



And you can say that it wouldn't without prior knowledge of the show, but I want to make a distinction between comprehensible plot and effective structure. I think the former depends on knowledge from the show but the latter doesn't

In Training
Jun 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!



Excellent framing

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Late but man Disappearance is so good. Unfortunate I suppose that nothing ever got followed from it on KyoAni's side but it's as good a send-off as you could reasonably ask for I guess.

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013



This is such a good movie. Not only is it absurdly pretty - it actually convinced me that Yuki is a good character. I didn't like her and Mikuru very much through the first season; Mikuru is hilarious, at least. But Yuki felt like this standard emotionless waifu type. But Season 2 + the movie does some really great things with her. I can't imagine separating the two. It's a joy to watch, and I'm sad we won't see this development taken further for other characters as well. I'd love more seasons of Anime Stereotypes Turning Out To Be Actual Persons. (well who doesn't... besides Kyoto Animation, apparently)

Also, Haruhi-chan is canon, and Tsuruya totally had a DBZ battle with Koizumi's maid. This is canon.

Linnaeus
Jan 2, 2013



Torquemadras posted:

This is such a good movie. Not only is it absurdly pretty - it actually convinced me that Yuki is a good character. I didn't like her and Mikuru very much through the first season; Mikuru is hilarious, at least. But Yuki felt like this standard emotionless waifu type. But Season 2 + the movie does some really great things with her. I can't imagine separating the two. It's a joy to watch, and I'm sad we won't see this development taken further for other characters as well. I'd love more seasons of Anime Stereotypes Turning Out To Be Actual Persons. (well who doesn't... besides Kyoto Animation, apparently)

Also, Haruhi-chan is canon, and Tsuruya totally had a DBZ battle with Koizumi's maid. This is canon.

i think the first time i liked yuki as a character was the permission scene in the computer game episode. she just got better from there

Linnaeus
Jan 2, 2013



also imgur needs to stop eating my gifs!!!!



you're cool kyon

Linnaeus fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Sep 19, 2015

Linnaeus
Jan 2, 2013



here's yuki's apartment from the show





and here's the real life equivalent

Dezinus
Jun 4, 2006

How unsightly.


Waitress: u da real mvp

bacon flaps
Mar 1, 2005

every day im hustlin

In Training posted:

Yeah. It's not like pre-Haruhi was all roses...Air, Clannad and Kanon are all kind of terrible

Kanon and Clannad were both post-Haruhi

Fumoffu and Second Raid were pre-Haruhi.

Kyoani does fine with good material, lackluster with bad material.

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013



Linnaeus posted:

i think the first time i liked yuki as a character was the permission scene in the computer game episode. she just got better from there

Yeah, that was a good one. But most of the time, it felt like she only existed as a joke character. Which is why Endless Eight and the movie blindsided me that much. Too bad it's over now that I could "get" her character.

It's weird how much greater my appreciation for this series has become with time. While I wasn't utterly amazed while watching it for the first time, in the end, I think I have a much better opinion of it now than of other shows that wowed me on first view. (I soured quite a lot on Baccano and FMA, and the weaker parts of Cowboy Bebop start standing out to me more... I know, I know, I'm history's greatest monster) This show has rocketed up to a cool #5, at least, on my all-time favorite list.

I know it's been asked before, but is there anything comparable out there? I was bored out of my skull by Hyouka + kinda lost in Nichijou, and I'm kind of suspicious of Monogatari due to what seems to be 95% fanservice (???) and a billion episodes + subseries.

Parallax
Jan 14, 2006



Torquemadras posted:

Yeah, that was a good one. But most of the time, it felt like she only existed as a joke character. Which is why Endless Eight and the movie blindsided me that much. Too bad it's over now that I could "get" her character.

It's weird how much greater my appreciation for this series has become with time. While I wasn't utterly amazed while watching it for the first time, in the end, I think I have a much better opinion of it now than of other shows that wowed me on first view. (I soured quite a lot on Baccano and FMA, and the weaker parts of Cowboy Bebop start standing out to me more... I know, I know, I'm history's greatest monster) This show has rocketed up to a cool #5, at least, on my all-time favorite list.

I know it's been asked before, but is there anything comparable out there? I was bored out of my skull by Hyouka + kinda lost in Nichijou, and I'm kind of suspicious of Monogatari due to what seems to be 95% fanservice (???) and a billion episodes + subseries.

I think Tatami Galaxy is similar enough and also absolutely amazing. Also if the animation doesn't gel with you then you really are history's greatest monster

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008

You can't see me at all...



Disappearance is a great, great movie, but is also functions as a natural end for Kyon as a character, and thus the series itself.

Consider: He spends most of the first season complaining about Haruhi. Yes, he goes along with the quasi-abusive relationship because he has to, but because it's for the greater good, he can convince himself that it's worth it, and by the time Live Alive rolls around, both he and Haruhi have grown and developed as characters to the point where, for example, Haruhi's actions in the supposedly post-Live Alive The Day of Sagittarius ring false, because we've seen her not focus entire on herself, not be a complete dick to everyone around her, actual work to accomplish something and be acknowledged for her own merits, etc. (note that Haruhi is barely in Disappearance)

Thus, Season 2 can get away with something like Endless Eight. From an art perspective, it is an undoubted triumph, and easily one of the best things I think has ever been done in anime. But plotwise? The only character it advances is Yuki, and even then, only slightly. Kyon learns nothing in the end as he doesn't remember any of the other loops, Haruhi doesn't change at all, Mikuru spends it freaked out, and Koizumi accepts his fate with resignation. And this is fine, from one perspective, because E8 had a clear storytelling goal in mind and accomplished it in spades -- as noted earlier in thread, exposing much of high school anime for the cliche ridden repetition that is. But there's a reason why shows fall into tropes and cliches: writing is quite difficult when you need new material every week. Would we want the show to become much like that other stale genre, the monster of the week? the SOS have to stop whatever new scheme Haruhi has cooked up without her realizing it? Watch the show in chronological order, and you'll see how uninteresting that becomes.

Which is the direction the novels seemed to go when I stopped reading them. When I left off we had just met Kyon's friend from middle school (the "Kyon likes weird girls" girl), who just happens to have the exact same powers as Haruhi. She too is followed by an Esper, a time traveler, and an alien, and the whole thing was just not that good. So many alternate universes, parallel worlds, divergent timelines...

So when KyoAni did DIsappearance, which ends on Kyon definitively choosing the SOS over everything, going out of his way and going through extreme pain and trauma to get back to that particular universe, all of his protestations and complains would ring false. He wanted this. He chose this. He was willing to kill an innocent, powerless schoolgirl with no memory of anything strange or supernatural to get back to this, and even though he got stabbed in the kidneys for it, he was going to do it... He wants to be here. Perfect note to end the series on.

But also a characterization that would need to be walked back for season 3, so he could have the same revelation at the climax, just as he did at the end of Season 1 and the film.

And that's why I can't hate Disappearance of Nagato Yuki too much. No, it's not the same series at all. It's not even in the same ball park. It's not trying to be. That's comparing something like Kill Bill with Agents of SHIELD. And so I can't fault it for not being something it was never going to be, and wasn't trying for. It doesn't diminish The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya by existing. It simply takes what seems like a viable storytelling option -- the characters from the alternate universe -- and tries to tell stories with them. It does so, giving Minori Chihara a chance to stretch her acting ability a bit more. It avoids the structural "problems" of the earlier series because it sets up a clear dynamic -- the slow, incremental advancement of a relationship -- that can be sustained almost indefinitely, and you know going in that the ride is the point, not the never coming resolution. How many times can we ask ourselves why doesn't Kyon just quit or how come Haruhi hasn't realized (it's not a comedy where Rumiko Takahashi style stupid characters would be totally acceptable, and we laugh off another failed attempt by Ryoga to use a map, for example) vs. how many times will we wonder if this is the time they'll finally tell one another about their feelings? The latter is not better storytelling, and again, I will wholeheartedly agree that Haruhi is the superior series, but it's also a series that needs to be limited in order to be good. Without the climax of episode 6/14, or the film, would the series feel as satisfying? I wrote earlier about how I liked the ending of Disappearance of Nagato Yuki, and I'll stand by that, even if the rest of the series was mostly fun and forgettable fluff, but the series could keep going from there pretty much indefinitely, the way series like Tenchi Muyo or Ah! My Goddess have. It won't, but it could, and therein lies the difference between the two styles of storytelling. The Kill Bill comparison earlier was quite deliberate: one doesn't need a Kill Bill vol. 3 (hell, how could you make one?), but one could enjoy a Deadly Viper Assassination Squad show, even if it didn't enhance the film even a tiny bit.

Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 19, 2015

Radio Spiricom
Aug 17, 2009



Torquemadras posted:

I know it's been asked before, but is there anything comparable out there? I was bored out of my skull by Hyouka + kinda lost in Nichijou, and I'm kind of suspicious of Monogatari due to what seems to be 95% fanservice (???) and a billion episodes + subseries.

i dunno, i think it depends on what you enjoyed the show for. it has a lot going on so answers will vary wildly. although you'll see some consistency because as it's been mentioned what makes haruhi special is how experimental the show is while still maintaining a high level of popularity. evangelion, utena, and haruhi are probably the high watermarks in this regard.

fanservice is part of monogatari and part of why it's popular. but i think it's interesting that it's as popular as it is considering how unconventional the show is in terms of narrative and visuals. it's mostly people talking through their issues while walking around desolate art deco landscapes. it uses a lot of different animation and editing styles and techniques, cutting to interstitial blank frames, lots of on screen text, characters acknowledging the artifice of the show, things like that. i say give it a shot, at least bakemonogatari - you should be able to tell pretty quickly whether you'll enjoy it or not

Darley-Wilkinson
Jun 19, 2007

uuuuiiii

Radio Spiricom posted:

eva, utena, monogatari, any of masaaki yuasa's shows

i wanna specifically point to yuasa's show Kaiba where there couldn't be a larger and more disarming gap between the whimsical, childish character & set design (explicit homage to tezuka) and the devastating seriousness of what takes place, where often what literally appears on screen seems so sanitized and cartoonish it feels euphemistic

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008

You can't see me at all...



This is kind of a sideways recommendation, but if you liked Haruhi, you'll probably like Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

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there isn't much that reaches the level of haruhi in regard to both quality + experimentality (and btw i don't think its fair to kyoan to call them a lesser studio when they are so dependent on the material they get) but there's been other shows since then that come near in terms in quality. the third madoka movie, the second snafu season and large stretches of monogatari come very close.

there's also a bunch of shows that make a good attempt, and are great but aren't quite up there like gatchaman and shirobako.

overall though, you're better of with movies like the fantastic millenium actress

In Training
Jun 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!


Snafu gets that good?

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

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i think its fantastic, not everyone would agree probably though. it is, at its core still a romcom after all

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

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im probably creating false expectations here, so uh don't get too hyped up about anything

In Training
Jun 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!


Davincie posted:

im probably creating false expectations here, so uh don't get too hyped up about anything

It's on my to watch list, after a lot of other stuff first though

Darley-Wilkinson
Jun 19, 2007

uuuuiiii

Davincie posted:

overall though, you're better of with movies like the fantastic millenium actress

i hate to say this but the more i watch kon the more i have to admit none of his movies really do anything for me except tokyo godfathers which is super charming. like millennium actress is really disappointing to me. i always feel like he starts out with interesting structural ideas and then explores them in the least compelling way possible

e: specifically said 'movies' because paranoia agent is his best work by a mile

Darley-Wilkinson fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 19, 2015

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



At one point I did try to watch Utena at a friend's request, but I stopped pretty early because of how strange it was. But I'll give it another go, I think Haruhi has cultivated an appreciation for bizarre anime in me.

In Training
Jun 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!


Darley-Wilkinson posted:

i hate to say this but the more i watch kon the more i have to admit none of his movies really do anything for me except tokyo godfathers which is super charming. like millennium actress is really disappointing to me. i always feel like he starts out with interesting structural ideas and then explores them in the least compelling way possible

e: specifically said 'movies' because paranoia agent is his best work by a mile

I really love paprika, i think it stays consistently strong throughout

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

Wiggle to the right
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Wiggle to the post that's best


Darley-Wilkinson posted:

i hate to say this but the more i watch kon the more i have to admit none of his movies really do anything for me except tokyo godfathers which is super charming. like millennium actress is really disappointing to me. i always feel like he starts out with interesting structural ideas and then explores them in the least compelling way possible

e: specifically said 'movies' because paranoia agent is his best work by a mile

paranoia agent does have a few weaker episodes in my opinion, but its great of course. the OP also really stays with you.

however, i think visually speaking its hurt a bit by being a series, as the lack of a budget in comparison with his movies is apparent

Radio Spiricom
Aug 17, 2009



Torquemadras posted:

I know it's been asked before, but is there anything comparable out there? I was bored out of my skull by Hyouka + kinda lost in Nichijou, and I'm kind of suspicious of Monogatari due to what seems to be 95% fanservice (???) and a billion episodes + subseries.

VostokProgram posted:

At one point I did try to watch Utena at a friend's request, but I stopped pretty early because of how strange it was. But I'll give it another go, I think Haruhi has cultivated an appreciation for bizarre anime in me.

also i'd probably be remiss if i didn't tell you to watch urusei yatsura 2: beautiful dreamer because it features some plot points and themes similar to haruhi. it doesn't necessarily require it tho a familiarity with the series and characters is good to have, watching the first 25-30 episodes is probably all you'd need. but it stands on its own

Radio Spiricom fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 19, 2015

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In Training
Jun 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!


The only urusei yatsura I seen is the first two movies and it's enough to get the gist of the world and then understand why beautiful dreamer is so lovely

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