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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Roblo posted:

If anyone has an actually good infographic like that world history chart I'd like to see it. I'm terrible at lining world history up in my head, and how one areas history lines up with another.

Can certainly see the issues with that one, though.

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Roblo
Dec 10, 2007

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



That's weird, I see no reference to the korean-finnish hyperwar?

MrUnderbridge
Jun 25, 2011



Beat me to it...

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 14, 2013



MrUnderbridge posted:

Beat me to it...

Much like the Finnish Korea.

Jurgan
May 8, 2007

Just pour it directly into your gaping mouth-hole you decadent slut


Roblo posted:

If anyone has an actually good infographic like that world history chart I'd like to see it. I'm terrible at lining world history up in my head, and how one areas history lines up with another.

Can certainly see the issues with that one, though.

Maybe this is something youd like? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Wu0Q7x5D0

trapped mouse
May 25, 2008


cinci zoo sniper posted:

Much like the Finnish Korea.

wait, i thought the finns and koreans were on the opposite sides of that war

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 14, 2013



trapped mouse posted:

wait, i thought the finns and koreans were on the opposite sides of that war

Yeah, Im alluding to Korean defeat.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


https://twitter.com/adamyeeles/stat...931174581485568

Plinkey
Aug 4, 2004



is this funny or awful, i can't tell?

Roblo
Dec 10, 2007

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Jurgan posted:

Maybe this is something youd like? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Wu0Q7x5D0
Awesome thanks. Some really interesting stuff in there. Crazy how long there was without...a lot happening. Some of the really early stuff is super interesting, really obvious where the whole 'cradle of human civilization" thing comes from. Loads going on at the end of the med for a looooong time.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet




Slippery Tilde

Roblo posted:

Awesome thanks. Some really interesting stuff in there. Crazy how long there was without...a lot happening. Some of the really early stuff is super interesting, really obvious where the whole 'cradle of human civilization" thing comes from. Loads going on at the end of the med for a looooong time.

I like how you can basically blink and suddenly loving MONGOLIANS EVERYWHERE.

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

Plinkey posted:

is this funny or awful, i can't tell?

Neither, I think?

Red Bones
Aug 9, 2012

"I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."



Roblo posted:

Awesome thanks. Some really interesting stuff in there. Crazy how long there was without...a lot happening. Some of the really early stuff is super interesting, really obvious where the whole 'cradle of human civilization" thing comes from. Loads going on at the end of the med for a looooong time.

I think it's important to watch it with a critical eye, though. In the early periods the lack of archaeological data can produce this misleading impression that nothing was happening when it's more like we don't know what was happening, and the whole thing is based on an idea of distinct geographical polities with hard borders, which can exclude a lot of other ways that humans have organised themselves.

Stoatbringer
Sep 15, 2004

naw, you love it
you little ho-bot




Roblo posted:

Awesome thanks. Some really interesting stuff in there. Crazy how long there was without...a lot happening. Some of the really early stuff is super interesting, really obvious where the whole 'cradle of human civilization" thing comes from. Loads going on at the end of the med for a looooong time.

I read an article once about a cave painting that had been dated to something like 25,000 years ago. There was another, later painting partly overlaid on it, which was in pretty much the same style and composed of the same sort of pigments. That one was dated to about 20,000 years ago. It's so strange to think that humanity did pretty much nothing at all for thousands of years - art, technology, society barely changed at all. Then in the last few thousand years and mostly the last couple of centuries - Boom!

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

For a lot of early human history there just also wasn't much need to change. If there wasn't enough food to go around then some people just moved. Bronze, pottery, a few animals, and minimal to no farming was enough. When heavy duty sedentary living and bigger groups than tribes formed while totally unsettled land ran out poo poo changed.

Another thing to think about is the fact that the Romans were obsessive record keepers. They were hell of organized and wrote pretty much everything down. Rome gets studied heavily and we know a lot of their history because of that alone. A lot of ancient cultures it's more along the lines of well we find these styles of pot shards and cave paintings that date back this long and stop at this one river. They look similar to this culture that came later and actually wrote some things down so they're probably related somehow.

Bobby Digital
Sep 4, 2009


Hoo boy

https://www.denizcemonduygu.com/philo/



You can zoom in on the site

walrusman
Aug 4, 2006



No.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012




So, something like this? (From near the bottom of that chart)

Red Bones
Aug 9, 2012

"I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."



It's not actually that bad if you take it as a piece of interactive infographic design. The idea of breaking down a philosophy into a series of key points, and then discussing which of these key points link with the key points of other philosophers (instead of just making broader philosopher-to-philosopher linkages) is good. As a static image, the lines connecting different ideas aren't a good way of following those links intuitively, but if you click on a bullet point the page just shows you all the other connecting ideas. I think "disagrees with/refutes" or "agrees with/expands upon" might be a little too reductionist for philosophy, but it's not such a bad chart on an interactive design level. Even the layout isn't super misleading, since it's very clear that the philosophers are arranged in chronological order rather than anything else.

System Metternich
Feb 28, 2010

But what did he mean by that?



Roblo posted:

Awesome thanks. Some really interesting stuff in there. Crazy how long there was without...a lot happening. Some of the really early stuff is super interesting, really obvious where the whole 'cradle of human civilization" thing comes from. Loads going on at the end of the med for a looooong time.

As was said, the archaelogical records as well as the intensity of historical research are pretty unevenly spread out. We know a ton about ancient Egyptians, Greeks or Romans because a) they wrote a lot of stuff down, b) their written sources got preserved relatively well throughout the centuries and c) research into them generates much more public attention (i.e. funds) than pretty much everything else as far as the classical era and anything before that is concerned. We know a good amount about virtually every aspect of Roman history, and additional scholarship is generated every year, whereas there seem to have been very large and complex civilisations throughout the Amazon Basin that were wiped out entirely in the decades after first contact with the Europeans, and we know virtually nothing about them other than that they (probably) existed. The only sign of them ever being there are terra preta, a specific variety of soil that doesn't appear naturally, a handful of geoglyphs and the fact that some hunter-and-gatherer tribes in the area exhibit a kind of social hierarchy that we only know from settled and agricultural societies, which implies that something like that possibly used to exist there. But other than that, there is nothing. Or take the Tollense valley battlefield: This was a bronze age battle fought about 3,300 years ago in what is today NE Germany. Up to 5,000 people may have participated in it, which would have made it the largest battle of the entire era worldwide. But here again we only know that there used to be a large battle (and we only know because an amateur archaeologist spent a nice sunny day rafting down the river when he saw something strange, which turned out to be a humerus with an arrowhead embedded in it). Who fought it? Why? We have no idea, even though the scale of the battle implies that civilisation in this time and area was much more advanced than formerly believed, and there probably were even central governments able to muster armies several thousand strong, feed and supply them via what must have been a complex logistical chain, brief them and send them to wherever they were supposed to fight. But we can't say anything more other than that they probably existed. But where? What languages did they speak, how was their society structured, in what gods did they believe? We don't know and probably never will.

Leviathan Song
Sep 8, 2010


System Metternich posted:

As was said, the archaelogical records as well as the intensity of historical research are pretty unevenly spread out. We know a ton about ancient Egyptians, Greeks or Romans because a) they wrote a lot of stuff down, b) their written sources got preserved relatively well throughout the centuries and c) research into them generates much more public attention (i.e. funds) than pretty much everything else as far as the classical era and anything before that is concerned. We know a good amount about virtually every aspect of Roman history, and additional scholarship is generated every year, whereas there seem to have been very large and complex civilisations throughout the Amazon Basin that were wiped out entirely in the decades after first contact with the Europeans, and we know virtually nothing about them other than that they (probably) existed. The only sign of them ever being there are terra preta, a specific variety of soil that doesn't appear naturally, a handful of geoglyphs and the fact that some hunter-and-gatherer tribes in the area exhibit a kind of social hierarchy that we only know from settled and agricultural societies, which implies that something like that possibly used to exist there. But other than that, there is nothing. Or take the Tollense valley battlefield: This was a bronze age battle fought about 3,300 years ago in what is today NE Germany. Up to 5,000 people may have participated in it, which would have made it the largest battle of the entire era worldwide. But here again we only know that there used to be a large battle (and we only know because an amateur archaeologist spent a nice sunny day rafting down the river when he saw something strange, which turned out to be a humerus with an arrowhead embedded in it). Who fought it? Why? We have no idea, even though the scale of the battle implies that civilisation in this time and area was much more advanced than formerly believed, and there probably were even central governments able to muster armies several thousand strong, feed and supply them via what must have been a complex logistical chain, brief them and send them to wherever they were supposed to fight. But we can't say anything more other than that they probably existed. But where? What languages did they speak, how was their society structured, in what gods did they believe? We don't know and probably never will.

The other thing I find crazy is how many potentially important sites are unreachable under water. Some of the earliest evidence of civilization around the Mediterranean is 9 to 10 thousand BC. The coastline from that timeframe is now completely underwater and the black sea didn't exist yet. There could be whole civilizations that we have no evidence of because they stuck to coasts or alluvial planes that will never be excavated.

Aleph Null
Jun 10, 2008

You look very stressed


Tortured By Flan

System Metternich posted:

As was said, the archaelogical records as well as the intensity of historical research are pretty unevenly spread out. We know a ton about ancient Egyptians, Greeks or Romans because a) they wrote a lot of stuff down, b) their written sources got preserved relatively well throughout the centuries and c) research into them generates much more public attention (i.e. funds) than pretty much everything else as far as the classical era and anything before that is concerned. We know a good amount about virtually every aspect of Roman history, and additional scholarship is generated every year, whereas there seem to have been very large and complex civilisations throughout the Amazon Basin that were wiped out entirely in the decades after first contact with the Europeans, and we know virtually nothing about them other than that they (probably) existed. The only sign of them ever being there are terra preta, a specific variety of soil that doesn't appear naturally, a handful of geoglyphs and the fact that some hunter-and-gatherer tribes in the area exhibit a kind of social hierarchy that we only know from settled and agricultural societies, which implies that something like that possibly used to exist there. But other than that, there is nothing. Or take the Tollense valley battlefield: This was a bronze age battle fought about 3,300 years ago in what is today NE Germany. Up to 5,000 people may have participated in it, which would have made it the largest battle of the entire era worldwide. But here again we only know that there used to be a large battle (and we only know because an amateur archaeologist spent a nice sunny day rafting down the river when he saw something strange, which turned out to be a humerus with an arrowhead embedded in it). Who fought it? Why? We have no idea, even though the scale of the battle implies that civilisation in this time and area was much more advanced than formerly believed, and there probably were even central governments able to muster armies several thousand strong, feed and supply them via what must have been a complex logistical chain, brief them and send them to wherever they were supposed to fight. But we can't say anything more other than that they probably existed. But where? What languages did they speak, how was their society structured, in what gods did they believe? We don't know and probably never will.

How well will our floppy disks, CDs, USB drives, and hard disk drives record our history? How long will celluloid film, magnetic tape, and paper documents last? In 10,000 years, what we do today will be a mystery. Some history from the last 100 years is already lost because the medium on which it was stored is unreadable.
Just film history, every time a new consumer format is developed, not all material gets up-converted or re-released. If you think working VCRs are hard to find, try a BetaMax player.

MrUnderbridge
Jun 25, 2011



Now that's a good graph.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

To make clear that "Cloud means forever storage" belongs in the Awful Graphs thread:

CrashPlan posted:

Effective August 22, 2017, Code42 will no longer offer new or renew CrashPlan for Home subscriptions, and we will begin to sunset the product over several months.
CrashPlan for Home will no longer be available for use starting October 23, 2018.

Goon Danton
May 24, 2012

Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.



I'm more of a clay tablets and steles man myself

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Vavrek posted:

To make clear that "Cloud means forever storage" belongs in the Awful Graphs thread:
Cloud means forever storage.

Not for you to retrieve your data. For the companies who are running it to retrieve your data.

Jurgan
May 8, 2007

Just pour it directly into your gaping mouth-hole you decadent slut


Aleph Null posted:

How well will our floppy disks, CDs, USB drives, and hard disk drives record our history? How long will celluloid film, magnetic tape, and paper documents last? In 10,000 years, what we do today will be a mystery. Some history from the last 100 years is already lost because the medium on which it was stored is unreadable.
Just film history, every time a new consumer format is developed, not all material gets up-converted or re-released. If you think working VCRs are hard to find, try a BetaMax player.

There was an entire episode of Cowboy Bebop about trying to find a Betamax player.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Aleph Null posted:

How well will our floppy disks, CDs, USB drives, and hard disk drives record our history? How long will celluloid film, magnetic tape, and paper documents last? In 10,000 years, what we do today will be a mystery. Some history from the last 100 years is already lost because the medium on which it was stored is unreadable.
Just film history, every time a new consumer format is developed, not all material gets up-converted or re-released. If you think working VCRs are hard to find, try a BetaMax player.

There are people who copy stuff to new storage things for exactly that reason. I think the government has been increasingly doing this, especially for stuff they decided was culturally important.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

ToxicSlurpee posted:

There are people who copy stuff to new storage things for exactly that reason. I think the government has been increasingly doing this, especially for stuff they decided was culturally important.

The problem is of course that this requires maintenance. We don't really have any good "it can sit in a vault for 10,000 years undisturbed and still be read when it's dug up" media aside from like, stone tablets.

As long as our civilization persists it will be fairly easy to just keep carrying information forward, but bear in mind the reason we have to learn about all these ancient cultures from dug up artifacts is because they DIDN'T. Who knows if 1000 years from now we will still have an unbroken line of cultural descent?

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

The Cheshire Cat posted:

The problem is of course that this requires maintenance. We don't really have any good "it can sit in a vault for 10,000 years undisturbed and still be read when it's dug up" media aside from like, stone tablets.

As long as our civilization persists it will be fairly easy to just keep carrying information forward, but bear in mind the reason we have to learn about all these ancient cultures from dug up artifacts is because they DIDN'T. Who knows if 1000 years from now we will still have an unbroken line of cultural descent?

Alright, let's etch every post on these forums on stone tablets and bury them so the future knows how much we suck. You with me?

One of the other things is that I really doubt the ancient people we study even worried about the messages surviving thousands of years. Some of the stuff will inevitably be lost because that's what time does. Maybe people will preserve it, maybe they won't. For all we know we might invent some kind of perfect memory that can last 100,000 years buried in mud in the next decade or century or whatever. Fact is that we just plain don't know what people after we're gone will find important and preserve. They might look at us like a bunch of backwards dipshits that should be erased from history.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





ToxicSlurpee posted:

Alright, let's etch every post on these forums on stone tablets and bury them so the future knows how much we suck. You with me?

One of the other things is that I really doubt the ancient people we study even worried about the messages surviving thousands of years. Some of the stuff will inevitably be lost because that's what time does. Maybe people will preserve it, maybe they won't. For all we know we might invent some kind of perfect memory that can last 100,000 years buried in mud in the next decade or century or whatever. Fact is that we just plain don't know what people after we're gone will find important and preserve. They might look at us like a bunch of backwards dipshits that should be erased from history.

If our descendants are able to understand us at all, they will say "why on earth did these idiots spend so much time and energy trying to make sure every tweet ever made was preserved for us to read today, and so little time and energy trying to preserve the environment so we would be alive to read them?"

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

vyelkin posted:

If our descendants are able to understand us at all, they will say "why on earth did these idiots spend so much time and energy trying to make sure every tweet ever made was preserved for us to read today, and so little time and energy trying to preserve the environment so we would be alive to read them?"

Simple; one was actually relatively easy to do. The other is a big, scary problem we'd have to make sacrifices to fix.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Simple; one was actually relatively easy to do. The other is a big, scary problem we'd have to make sacrifices to fix.

Also there's at least a certain segment of the population that kind of fetishizes the idea of being the "last" generation so it's entirely in character that they would both want to ruin the world forever and also make sure that if someone does survive, the survivors will be sure to recognize how great and important we were.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



The Pompeii graffiti is dope

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion


AnoHito
May 8, 2014



All men are also apparently at least 65 years old.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



ToxicSlurpee posted:

Alright, let's etch every post on these forums on stone tablets and bury them so the future knows how much we suck. You with me?

One of the other things is that I really doubt the ancient people we study even worried about the messages surviving thousands of years. Some of the stuff will inevitably be lost because that's what time does. Maybe people will preserve it, maybe they won't. For all we know we might invent some kind of perfect memory that can last 100,000 years buried in mud in the next decade or century or whatever. Fact is that we just plain don't know what people after we're gone will find important and preserve. They might look at us like a bunch of backwards dipshits that should be erased from history.

Ennigaldi-Nanna, the first museum operator we have record of, had in her collection pieces from 1500 years or more prior to her museums founding. We are further now from her, and her museum tablets we display, than she was from the people whose belonging she was displauing. People rarely worry about preserving the present but we have a long history of preserving what past remains

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Aleph Null posted:

Just film history, every time a new consumer format is developed, not all material gets up-converted or re-released. If you think working VCRs are hard to find, try a BetaMax player.

Actually Beta was a fairly common delivery format for standard def television programming long after VCR went obsolete so a working BetaMax player is likely still operating at most broadcast television stations. I've delivered content on Beta and I'm only 33.

Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER



PowerBI: Not even once.

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jjack229
Feb 14, 2008
Articulate your needs. I'm here to listen.

Oven Wrangler


How to take data from a table and make it harder to read.txt

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