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a whole buncha crows
May 8, 2003

WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)



Amazing

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Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard



https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6189856/#Comment_6189856

HookedOnChthonics
Dec 5, 2015

Profoundly dull




Tokamak posted:

Rebel Galaxy has 75, and Elite: Dangerous has 80. You are right that 85 is a bit high for a niche game, but 66 is not exactly a bar for excellence. And if Star Citizen can't beat Elite: Dangerous, citizens will commit seppuku.

I wanted something realistic and reachable though. Look deep in your heart and tell me you wouldn't be at least a little impressed if sc managed to shape up enough to beat out a poorly recieved mmo from 2010

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.


Scruffpuff posted:

Chris will never get rid of those animations. He's made the word "immersion" one of his cult trigger words, and even gone as far as redefining exactly what "immersion" means so that his sect identifies the term with those unnecessary animations.
"In order to save the immersion, we had to destroy it."
General Chris Roberts.

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

peter gabriel posted:

Yup, my feeling is that in his quest for 'immersion' with all those 20 second long 'Hey it looks like you're climbing a ladder' animations he's made it impossible to use VR, which is the best way to be 'immersed' in any game.
I legit love that h aha

This makes me think even more about how Chris doesn't understand how people think, or gaming in general. To be immersed in an experience like a game, has nothing to do with seeing the same things on your monitor that you would see in real life.

When you drive a car, and it starts to rain, and drops form on your windshield, unless it's a heavy rain, you just look through the drops. Your brain edits them out.

If you ride a motorcycle, the first time you wear the helmet, your view is restricted. But after you've been riding a while, you subconsciously compensate for the limited visibility by turning your head farther and more often than usual. You don't know you're doing it - you just do it.

When you first start to wear glasses, you can't stop seeing the rims. And there again, after some time, your brain edits out the frames and you don't see them any more.

In a game, it's different. If you draw drops on the windshield, you can't focus past them - they're in the way. If you limit view from wearing a helmet, it's always harder to see. If you play a character who wears glasses, and they design the rims around the edge of your screen, they're always there and always in the way. You're not "seeing what a guy wearing glasses sees" because in real life the guy wearing glasses can't see the frames unless he looks for them.

In a video game, immersion comes from several factors - lighting, movement, and sound, to name a few. Get the mood right, and you feel like you're there. And the irony of all this is that the "climbing the ladder" into your ship, for example, actually pulls you out of the game. It takes control away from your character (which does not happen in real life, I hope) and reminds you "oh yeah, this is a video game, I can't move until this scripted animation is done playing."

Whereas in games where you get in a car or something instantly, THAT is the part your brain edits out, keeping you in the flow of being in character. Nobody says "How did I get in this car?" They know how they got in, they hit the USE key, and now they're in it and ready for action. Your brain skips over the mundane details and you enjoy a contiguous experience.

It never fails to amaze me how many people in the world miss a target specifically because they were aiming for it.

Scruffpuff fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jan 3, 2016

cl_gibcount 9999
Aug 15, 2002



peter gabriel posted:

Lol @ VR in general, I love it sometimes but gently caress me it's nerdy ha ha

virtual boy

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001



peter gabriel posted:

Now imagine them naked :wiggle:

Mildly :nws: and definitely :nms: so linking rather than embedding.

Imagine no more.

http://i.imgur.com/eOd5moY.png

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!




^Don't click this. You don't need it. No matter how curious you are.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


This right here, is the WCW of space sim game companies. There i said it.

DoctorStrangelove
Jun 6, 2012

IT WOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT MEIN FUHRER!



WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

^Don't click this. You don't need it. No matter how curious you are.

I've seen worse.

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001



DoctorStrangelove posted:

I've seen worse.

Should I make worse?

Ap0calyps3
May 14, 2009



fuctifino posted:

Mildly :nws: and definitely :nms: so linking rather than embedding.

Imagine no more.

http://i.imgur.com/eOd5moY.png

Now this was not the immersion we were looking for.

Haskell9
Sep 23, 2008

post it live

The Great Twist

Laserpig posted:

Which I will, there will only be 3 hits in the fight, I hit Derek. Derek hits the floor, the ambulance hits 100mph

Congratulations on your tremendous accomplishment.

Derek Smart posted:

His son on the other hand. The less spoken about that sorry sack of poo poo, the better. He was a bully. He kicked my rear end all the time because he was bigger, older and knew how to fight. I was just a skinny smart-rear end geek, who knew how to fix stuff. He broke my nose once; and it never did get fixed quite right. So I go through my whole life with that physical and emotional scar to remember him by.

He's like in his 40's or 50's now though so he's tremendously tougher than he was as a young man I retract my sarcasm

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007


Ramrod XTreme

Ap0calyps3 posted:

Do you have any facts to back that up? So in 2020 there is no way this game will run with VR when it is released?
I haven't played SC, so I only can speculate based on some older videos I've seen.

If you've used VR, you know that it's very different from monitor-based gaming. Great VR games are built from the ground-up to use it, you can't just hack it in. If you don't, you risk giving the user bad motion sickness and a poor experience. You also have to have VR-specific UIs or many menus/etc will be unreadable.

That said, space flying games are an excellent use of VR. That's because your real life movements tend to be similar to your in-game movements. You're sitting in a chair in real life, possibly using a joystick - just like the game. You can get very close to 1:1 between what the user is doing and what is happening on the screen, which makes it a great experience. But they've thrown in some much other stuff for non-VR that might cause issues. They may have to re-work the animations (maybe they can just go into 3rd person? That doesn't tend to cause motion sickness, in contrast to stomach-destroying forced first person movement - at least in my experience!). Regardless, the flying portion of VR should be relatively inexpensive to implement compared to most of the other things they've put into this game.

But no one has come up with a good way to do FPS in VR. Perhaps future VR models will eliminate motion sickness (unlikely, I'd imagine), or they can re-work the game enough to accommodate it, but right now it would probably be terrible.

Still, it's not like it's impossible to put in VR at some point in the future. But the game was definitely not built with it in mind.

Concerned Citizen fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jan 3, 2016

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Ask innocent question.


Receive sales pitch


Get downvoted into oblivion


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3z8e5g/hey_guys_im_curious_about_star_citizen_but_i_have/

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014




aleksendr posted:

Does E:D need a joystick or can you be halfway effective with Keyboard and mouse ? It looks mighty tempting at 19.99 right now..

I just bought it and spent about two hours doing the tutorials and watching the youtube videos.

And i'm just now starting the "go and fetch this"/"go deliver this" missions to get some starting cash.

It's not bad, I'm enjoying it. Just whatever you do, spend the hour or so doing the tutorials . My opinion of the game would be completely different if I hadn't.

DoctorStrangelove
Jun 6, 2012

IT WOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT MEIN FUHRER!



fuctifino posted:

Should I make worse?

Do it.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard



https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3z89j4/post_release_suggestion/cyk1bur

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?


These guys just have a random fantasy, and say it'll "probably" be in the game. I'm not sure what I think about that. Except maybe that he had the foresight to think about the "metagame" and use the term "de-facto", but what isn't occurring to him is that this will never be in the game, if a game even releases.

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012



Mirificus posted:

Receive sales pitch


Isn't like 90% of this in Eve anyway?

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.



Wuxi posted:

Isn't like 90% of this in Eve anyway?

All of it is, if you count Dust 514 as part of eve.


e. I suppose "planet landing" isn't, but who gives a poo poo? SC won't have four digit player battles or staff who can make fun of themselves/their game.

Xaerael fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jan 3, 2016

Sankis
Mar 8, 2004

But I remember the fella who told me. Big lad. Arms as thick as oak trees, a stunning collection of scars, nice eye patch. A REAL therapist he was. Er wait. Maybe it was rapist?




why would any youtuber want to stream themselves playing in a space news van? do they honestly think anyone would want to watch that?

This feels like one of those suggestions that would have been made in the very early 2000s before anyone knew the extent of what streaming on the internet would be capable of not something made in 2016.

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.



TBF, it's hard to take redditors who poo poo talk about Eve seriously, because they're usually the ones who got obliterated by us in Eve during the Fountain war, and are still salty at us about it.

I'm fairly sure Wesha is in that number. Though I'm infused with enough dignity to admit I may be wrong.

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001




:gary: 2 weeks :yarg:

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Sankis posted:

why would any youtuber want to stream themselves playing in a space news van? do they honestly think anyone would want to watch that?

This feels like one of those suggestions that would have been made in the very early 2000s before anyone knew the extent of what streaming on the internet would be capable of not something made in 2016.

"OK faithful listeners, thanks for tuning in. You're listening to SOLO news, the hottest news in the 'Verse! You can always count on us for breaking news on the 15 or so players than can fit in this shard with me. Today is starting out like most others - we're getting accident reports at Port Olisar again, seems there have been 46 collisions in the last half-hour or so. Not sure what that's all about, but expect heavy traff... WHAT THE gently caress?!? What just happened??? Oh gently caress, some fucker just rammed me, son of a bitch. I can't believe it. Jesus Chris. OK listeners we had a slight technical malfunction, we'll be back again with breaking news once I finish getting out of bed. Just a little while longer now. Come on, come onnnnn.... OK here we go, and... OK folks please bear with our technical difficulties, it seems that there is no room on the landing pads, but please stay tuned and be patient, we're committed to keeping you on top of the.... ok what the gently caress. What the gently caress is this guy doing? I'm stuck against the control panel, not sure what's happening here.... ok and Star Citizen has stopped responding. Son of a bitch."

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!




I don't think it's actually for the audience. I think these people have literally no imagination and want to be able to do boring monotonous jobs for the immersion.

Ap0calyps3
May 14, 2009




You can already do most of this in Minecraft!

Wise Learned Man
Apr 22, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

Scruffpuff posted:

This makes me think even more about how Chris doesn't understand how people think, or gaming in general. To be immersed in an experience like a game, has nothing to do with seeing the same things on your monitor that you would see in real life.

When you drive a car, and it starts to rain, and drops form on your windshield, unless it's a heavy rain, you just look through the drops. Your brain edits them out.

If you ride a motorcycle, the first time you wear the helmet, your view is restricted. But after you've been riding a while, you subconsciously compensate for the limited visibility by turning your head farther and more often than usual. You don't know you're doing it - you just do it.

When you first start to wear glasses, you can't stop seeing the rims. And there again, after some time, your brain edits out the frames and you don't see them any more.

In a game, it's different. If you draw drops on the windshield, you can't focus past them - they're in the way. If you limit view from wearing a helmet, it's always harder to see. If you play a character who wears glasses, and they design the rims around the edge of your screen, they're always there and always in the way. You're not "seeing what a guy wearing glasses sees" because in real life the guy wearing glasses can't see the frames unless he looks for them.

In a video game, immersion comes from several factors - lighting, movement, and sound, to name a few. Get the mood right, and you feel like you're there. And the irony of all this is that the "climbing the ladder" into your ship, for example, actually pulls you out of the game. It takes control away from your character (which does not happen in real life, I hope) and reminds you "oh yeah, this is a video game, I can't move until this scripted animation is done playing."

Whereas in games where you get in a car or something instantly, THAT is the part your brain edits out, keeping you in the flow of being in character. Nobody says "How did I get in this car?" They know how they got in, they hit the USE key, and now they're in it and ready for action. Your brain skips over the mundane details and you enjoy a contiguous experience.

It never fails to amaze me how many people in the world miss a target specifically because they were aiming for it.

This. All of it.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Xaerael posted:

TBF, it's hard to take redditors who poo poo talk about Eve seriously, because they're usually the ones who got obliterated by us in Eve during the Fountain war, and are still salty at us about it.

I'm fairly sure Wesha is in that number. Though I'm infused with enough dignity to admit I may be wrong.

I'm pretty sure you're right about Wesha.

EminusSleepus
Sep 28, 2015



EminusSleepus
Sep 28, 2015



seems like a "known issue-everything is fine" lol






https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3z6xk2/i_flew_300km_from_yela_to_try_and_eclipse_the_sun/

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.



I'm going to follow up my bold statement by saying that I'm of the opinion that the only reason the Redditors are throwing tons of cash on the fire is so they can "beat" goons at Star Citizen as revenge for getting their asses handed to them in Eve.

The two problems with that now being that most sane goons have soured to the game and probably won't play it either way, and now, sans goons, the Redditors have no one to base a cargo cult on.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012



Wuxi posted:

Isn't like 90% of this in Eve anyway?

Yes.

Here's some examples.

First person shooting - While not in EVE specifically, CCP did make DUST 514 for the PS3 and are porting it to the PC https://www.dust514.com
No jobs/careers to choose/level up in - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Agent
Exploration - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exploration_guide
Mining - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mining_guide
Bounty Hunting (jail cells to get ppl back) - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bounty
Cargo hauling (space trucker sim) - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Hauling
Racing - While no "Mario Kart" or whatever sort of game preset exists, you can still race your friends in EVE. Some players actually organize events for this.
Ship repairs - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Station_services & https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logistics_piloting
Players bases - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Starbase
Alien ships - EVE doesn't really have aliens, but the Jove are basically Humans that have a bunch of changes made to them - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jove
Gardening - This is the only thing I can think of EVE doesn't have other than planetary landing.
Medical help - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Station_services & the afforementioned Logistics ships.
Illegal drug making - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Boosters
Player death - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pod_Death
Stealth mechanics - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops
Planet landing - EVE was going to have this, but CCP scraped it due to production/development issues.

All of this took about 5 minutes of googling "EVE Online + whatever mechanic was listed"

Lmao, I posted this on Reddit and got instantly downvoted. Never change /r/starcitizen.

Mekchu fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 3, 2016

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Scruffpuff posted:

When you drive a car, and it starts to rain, and drops form on your windshield, unless it's a heavy rain, you just look through the drops. Your brain edits them out.
That reminds me:


https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ull-and-windows

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008


Unfunny Poster posted:

Yes.

Here's some examples.

First person shooting - While not in EVE specifically, CCP did make DUST 514 for the PS3 and are porting it to the PC https://www.dust514.com
No jobs/careers to choose/level up in - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Agent
Exploration - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exploration_guide
Mining - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mining_guide
Bounty Hunting (jail cells to get ppl back) - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bounty
Cargo hauling (space trucker sim) - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Hauling
Racing - While no "Mario Kart" or whatever sort of game preset exists, you can still race your friends in EVE. Some players actually organize events for this.
Ship repairs - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Station_services & https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logistics_piloting
Players bases - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Starbase
Alien ships - EVE doesn't really have aliens, but the Jove are basically Humans that have a bunch of changes made to them - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jove
Gardening - This is the only thing I can think of EVE doesn't have other than planetary landing.
Medical help - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Station_services & the afforementioned Logistics ships.
Illegal drug making - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Boosters
Player death - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pod_Death
Stealth mechanics - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops
Planet landing - EVE was going to have this, but CCP scraped it due to production/development issues.

All of this took about 5 minutes of googling "EVE Online + whatever mechanic was listed"

quote:

jesterx7769 0 points 18 minutes ago
"I played EVE before but not in awhile so my comparison isn't the best but..."
Please show me EVE and Elite
Organize race tracks
Players repairing other player ships
Making drugs
Having your own base
Researching alien/ancient artifacts
I'm not an EVE or ED specialist but have played both games. What SC goals are clearly outweigh both

This post made me angry for some reason, it was in response to someone linking a bunch of EVE Wiki stuff showing EVE already does 90% of what Star Citizen is attempting.

How about you show me a video of you doing any of those things in Star Citizen first jesterx?

Rudager fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 3, 2016

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012



Rudager posted:

This post made me angry for some reason, it was in response to someone linking a bunch of EVE Wiki stuff showing EVE already does 90% of what Star Citizen is attempting.

How about you show me a video of you doing any of those things in Star Citizen first jesterx?

I just replied further proving his assumption/claim that EVE didn't have those things actually does. I won't call them dumb or whatever, they may genuinely not know EVE has it. The downvoting for the post with all the links I provided though sort of proves that they don't really care about facts though.

Also here's a player ran "Death Race" within EVE that took place back in November - https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3rn0ji/quafe_death_race_event_nov_22nd_at_2000hrs/ as well as this one from 2013 http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/tuskers-death-race-this-weekend/ & http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/deathrace-2013/

Mekchu fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jan 3, 2016

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004


Exciting Lemon

Scruffpuff posted:

This makes me think even more about how Chris doesn't understand how people think, or gaming in general. To be immersed in an experience like a game, has nothing to do with seeing the same things on your monitor that you would see in real life.

When you drive a car, and it starts to rain, and drops form on your windshield, unless it's a heavy rain, you just look through the drops. Your brain edits them out.

If you ride a motorcycle, the first time you wear the helmet, your view is restricted. But after you've been riding a while, you subconsciously compensate for the limited visibility by turning your head farther and more often than usual. You don't know you're doing it - you just do it.

When you first start to wear glasses, you can't stop seeing the rims. And there again, after some time, your brain edits out the frames and you don't see them any more.

In a game, it's different. If you draw drops on the windshield, you can't focus past them - they're in the way. If you limit view from wearing a helmet, it's always harder to see. If you play a character who wears glasses, and they design the rims around the edge of your screen, they're always there and always in the way. You're not "seeing what a guy wearing glasses sees" because in real life the guy wearing glasses can't see the frames unless he looks for them.

In a video game, immersion comes from several factors - lighting, movement, and sound, to name a few. Get the mood right, and you feel like you're there. And the irony of all this is that the "climbing the ladder" into your ship, for example, actually pulls you out of the game. It takes control away from your character (which does not happen in real life, I hope) and reminds you "oh yeah, this is a video game, I can't move until this scripted animation is done playing."

Whereas in games where you get in a car or something instantly, THAT is the part your brain edits out, keeping you in the flow of being in character. Nobody says "How did I get in this car?" They know how they got in, they hit the USE key, and now they're in it and ready for action. Your brain skips over the mundane details and you enjoy a contiguous experience.

It never fails to amaze me how many people in the world miss a target specifically because they were aiming for it.

Pro post right here.

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008


Unfunny Poster posted:

I just replied further proving his assumption/claim that EVE didn't have those things actually does. I won't call them dumb or whatever, they may genuinely not know EVE has it. The downvoting for the post with all the links I provided though sort of proves that they don't really care about facts though.

It makes me angry because it shouldn't even be a conversation, you can't do anything they list in Star Citizen because it isn't even a loving game yet

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard



https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/310899/embedded-ar-youtube-player

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Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012



Rudager posted:

It makes me angry because it shouldn't even be a conversation, you can't do anything they list in Star Citizen because it isn't even a loving game yet

True, but it's better to point out they're making a false claim and watch them wiggle/work around the truth when they realize they made poo poo up.

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