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Norefund14days
Feb 2, 2016

NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU PARP IN SPACE.

peter gabriel posted:

god dammit look at these fuckin cats

They are quite spoiled.

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Norefund14days
Feb 2, 2016

NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU PARP IN SPACE.
This is the Hotas you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV7ZN_G9Exg

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare

orcinus posted:

1) mechanical reliability
2) less user-error prone under heavy Gs
3) faster response

Unfortunately, also very much at odds with decades of pilot training, hence not very well accepted.

ah that makes a lot of sense, i figured it had to do with how they're constructed.

i can't imagine that's fun to use for sims/games though unless they have a heeeeavy rear end baseplate to account for all the pushing/pulling being done?

DigitalMocking
Jun 8, 2010

Wine is constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy.
Benjamin Franklin

Scruffpuff posted:

Now I'm picturing an Obama stylized poster of Chris Roberts with the text "No we can't."

Galarox
Sep 22, 2015

Fun Shoe

peter gabriel posted:

A hotas is poo poo for sc, like complete loving rear end. It is also by far the best controller for sc such are the sheer shitness of everything about it.
The only Samsung controller I have is the pad for the Gear VR, do they make a hotas?

Nah they make a headset thingy that you add your samsung phone to in order to make a VR headset. See my edited post above.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

orcinus posted:

It is placebo motion because motion itself has 0 effect on control surfaces.
Once you reach the end of movement range, you can continue pushing on it with an increased force and that input will get interpreted as part of the output range.

But never mind that. Have you actually tried X-65F?
It feels ”weird” for all of half an hour it takes you to get used to no motion. After that, it's absolutely fine, and in fact, once you unlearn the muscle memory required for movable sticks, let's you do way twitchier and faster corrections. Especially near the deadzone. Try playing a helicopter sim with it, it's a pretty nice match.

Not sure what you've meant by ”they could fake it”. Fake what?

It's got nothing to do with the control surfaces, and everything to do with kinematics/preconception. Also, the stick doesn't run out of displacement before reaching the max pressure values (+25/-17lbs in pitch and I forgot what roll is), it's calibrated by smart people

Yes I've used an x-65, no it does not compare to proper FS setups. By 'fake it' (poor choice of words) I mean the bean counters or whoever at Saitek thought they could get away with ignoring research establishing the importance of that tiny bit of displacement. It's not that you *can't use it this way, it's that it comes at the expense of efficiency which is why original F-16 prototypes were static but later modified to the hybrid system.

You can place your X-65 on firm, thin closed cell neoprene foam pad (like the type used for camping) and get most of the same effect you would if they didn't reduce this otherwise fine (still don't like the cheap rear end buttons) stick's potential.

Sundowner posted:

So if I'm understanding this right, they tried to implement a stick system where it didn't actually physically move but rather the input was how much pressure you pushed/pulled onto the stick? How in the gently caress... why is that better than a traditional stick?

fake edit: i know nothing about fighter jets or really any aircraft stuff.

Correct, the F-16 uses force sensing instead of displacement based controls. The high loading that aircraft is capable of (>9g's) makes it difficult for pilots to gauge and control inputs using traditional displacement systems since your arm is being subjected to the same loading. Also with fly-by-wire systems there is no longer any need for large displacements, allowing controls to occupy smaller amounts of precious cockpit real estate. F-16 was the first, but later many modern jets use the same type of system for the same reasons, improved pilot performance and more flexible cockpits.

e: details..

Thoatse fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Mar 15, 2016

orcinus
Feb 25, 2016

Fun Shoe

Sundowner posted:

i can't imagine that's fun to use for sims/games though unless they have a heeeeavy rear end baseplate to account for all the pushing/pulling being done?

Yeah. Heavy + suction pads + large footprint and bob's your uncle.
But the sensitivity of the force transducers is adjustable. And you don't have to push them any harder than you would a movable stick.

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...



Dinosaur Gum

peter gabriel posted:

A hotas is poo poo for sc, like complete loving rear end. It is also by far the best controller for sc such are the sheer shitness of everything about it.
The only Samsung controller I have is the pad for the Gear VR, do they make a hotas?

from what i've played the other controlling methods ain't that great either

almost like there's something wrong with the game

(CITIZEN WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Mar 15, 2016

orcinus
Feb 25, 2016

Fun Shoe

Thoatse posted:

You can place your X-65 on firm, thin closed cell neoprene foam pad (like the type used for camping) and get most of the same effect you would if Saitek's bean counters didn't reduce this otherwise fine (still don't like the cheap rear end buttons) stick's potential.

The suction pads on the bottom actually provide that slight movement already.
At least on my sample.

I'd actually prefer it not do that, as it gives me the feeling something's wrong / the whole thing is sliding on the table.
IDK, i'm weird.

Re: buttons - got ya there, the quality of the switches is atrocious. In fact, the first one i had was so hosed up it wasn't even funny. 2 switches dead, 1 misreported as a different switch, 1 triggered by the mouse stick on the throttle (wtf i don't even). Saitek's QA is poo poo. I opened it up out of curiosity before sending it back - the solder work was crap.

Thoatse posted:

It's got nothing to do with the control surfaces, and everything to do with kinematics/preconception.

Oh, come on, do you really believe proprioception even comes into play in an actual cockpit, as it pertains to a movement of 1/8th of an inch, max. displacement?
The only reason it was done was so they get a feeling of when they hit the end of the range. That is all. It does gently caress all for getting a feel of where in the whole input range you currently are, especially when the pilot is pulling Gs.

PS: If you're controlling the craft based on the feedback of your stick movements, instead of whole body proprioception (g forces), instrumentation and plane movements relative to the environment, you're quite likely doing something wrong. Because you're missing one heck of a piece of the feedback loop. About a plane-sized piece.

orcinus fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 15, 2016

intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:

A Neurotic Jew posted:

I'm convinced this is because of my posts warning newcomers about the red flags surrounding this game. that really pisses people off for some reason.

get a refund bro

Dont taze me X3

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

Daztek posted:

I use a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X Flight Stick, it's really cheap, good quality and a great starter hotas

I concur

intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:

peter gabriel posted:

A hotas is poo poo for sc, like complete loving rear end. It is also by far the best controller for sc such are the sheer shitness of everything about it.
The only Samsung controller I have is the pad for the Gear VR, do they make a hotas?

hell M+K are rear end. I have been playing to make my stupid videos and drat those ships fly like ben running for the toilet. Wobbly, all over the place and slow + look out for when you land!

intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:


my other cat!

Madcosby
Mar 4, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
I'm Derek Smart's father, so if he does anything I should know about, let me know

orcinus
Feb 25, 2016

Fun Shoe
SC with M+K is useless, because the mouse controls are actually an EXTREMELY shittily implemented virtual joystick.
With an input range that's not even square for some weird reason. From what i've gleaned, it changes with the screen aspect ratio (WTF?).

e: Then again, it's useless with anything.

squirrelzipper
Nov 2, 2011

You know, I just realized what bothers me about cultists the most; they're perverting crowdfunding with their willingness to be victims. Like if I invest in a company privately or through the market then I get equity in that company. Or if I purchase (even in advance) product from a company then I'm a customer who owns the license or product I've purchased. But these loving idiots are convincing themselves that they are neither investors NOR customers. It's loving astonishing.

SpunkyRedKnight
Oct 12, 2000


Hmm.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!


squirrelzipper posted:

You know, I just realized what bothers me about cultists the most; they're perverting crowdfunding with their willingness to be victims. Like if I invest in a company privately or through the market then I get equity in that company. Or if I purchase (even in advance) product from a company then I'm a customer who owns the license or product I've purchased. But these loving idiots are convincing themselves that they are neither investors NOR customers. It's loving astonishing.

They literally take pride in being rats in a Skinner box. "I'm not shocking myself to get to the food on the other side, the food is a reward for being shocked!"

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.



Chris moments before slamming into a wall at 90km/h because a pilot deactivated the gravity and turned on the main engine.

Stannum
May 8, 2005

The station rings are broken in a new way...

https://youtu.be/vrL8M4aG7VU?t=121

At 2:04 you can see that the ring rotation isn't constrained to a single axis.

Sushi in Yiddish
Feb 2, 2008


I too remember when Chris fell off the Natakomi Tower

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Stannum posted:

The station rings are broken in a new way...

https://youtu.be/vrL8M4aG7VU?t=121

At 2:04 you can see that the ring rotation isn't constrained to a single axis.

Wow, that's actually quite astonishing to build something that badly. Especially when they have to little to show in the first place. If they put their best foot forward, and this is their best foot, that's a bad sign. If they didn't, then why the gently caress not since you're trying to sell this game, that's also a bad sign.

Star Citizen: A Bad Sign

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Stannum posted:

The station rings are broken in a new way...

https://youtu.be/vrL8M4aG7VU?t=121

At 2:04 you can see that the ring rotation isn't constrained to a single axis.

:what: :cripes: :newlol:


No actual words needed.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015


Tippis posted:

He was in the Vietnam War, not the French Revolution.


Probably Iwo Jima or something

Do they have ladies with their titties out at every war?

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.


Stannum posted:

The station rings are broken in a new way...

https://youtu.be/vrL8M4aG7VU?t=121

At 2:04 you can see that the ring rotation isn't constrained to a single axis.

I think you will find that throughout every facet of Star Citizen there is a lack of constraint.

Goobs
Jan 30, 2016

Doxcat is watching you PU.


Can't wait for Citizencon.

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare

Stannum posted:

The station rings are broken in a new way...

https://youtu.be/vrL8M4aG7VU?t=121

At 2:04 you can see that the ring rotation isn't constrained to a single axis.

And to think at some upcoming event they said they're "just going to show what we have a the time" instead of creating an actual video package in advance.

Happy Sisyphus
Nov 13, 2013

You take the blue paarp - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red paarp - you stay in pre-alpha, and I show you how deep the sperg wallet goes.



hmmmmmm

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.



THERE ARE FOUR LIES

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

FrankieGoes posted:

Do they have ladies with their titties out at every war?

Wouldn't be much of a war otherwise.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!


WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 15, 2016

Tokyo Sexwale
Jul 30, 2003

Decrepus posted:

Chris moments before slamming into a wall at 90km/h because a pilot deactivated the gravity and turned on the main engine.

Most likely he'll freeze into a T-pose and clip through the ship wall first

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005


Hello from my spaceship.

AugmentedVision
Feb 17, 2011

by exmarx
needs pot leaves, mtn dew logos and dubstep

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Galarox posted:

Nah they make a headset thingy that you add your samsung phone to in order to make a VR headset. See my edited post above.

Ah yeah, yeah I have one, they are good for what they are
They have a trackpad on the side which is awesome for menus etc

Happy Sisyphus
Nov 13, 2013

You take the blue paarp - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red paarp - you stay in pre-alpha, and I show you how deep the sperg wallet goes.


Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.


Why Sweden?

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WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!


Now we need one with him massaging aBen jiggle face gif.

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