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AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them


Grimey Drawer

A Neurotic Jew posted:

One of the best parts of the autopsy for this dead project is going to be skimming through the complete hack-job script that I'm sure Roberts thinks is Very Good.

It's pretty funny right now.

Question on the bottom turret on the new constellation.

Answer, no poo poo the actual answer was, we didn't do it the best way because it would have taken too long to fix and we still haven't finished the rest of the constellation after 8 months.

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peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


I have an upcoming game and need investors

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010


walruscat posted:

I'm curious, is the skeleton and rigging separate from the engine? Like if you built the skeleton and rigging in a 32bit engine, will it break if you convert the engine to 64bit or decide to use an entirely different engine?

Also I get working in parallel while you build everything else, but given their apparent lack of progress it seems incredibly wasteful to spend money they may end up needing to deliver a finished product.

That I would not know, so I'm speculating here that the 64bit change is related to entity positioning. The model is represented as a state vector (correct on this, game devs?) but the animation system is completely separate from the positional data of the entities. It just works on the rig, and the rig is instructions for how the bones and joints move on the skeletal frame. I remember that Last of Us uses hints for objects and animation tags to allow for dynamic things like Joel placing his hand on nearby objects when crouched, but I have no idea how that works.

In answer to your latter, the lack of progress I gave my feelings on earlier, wherein I have a different perspective from the current one here.

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"


Fun Shoe

walruscat posted:

I'm curious, is the skeleton and rigging separate from the engine? Like if you built the skeleton and rigging in a 32bit engine, will it break if you convert the engine to 64bit or decide to use an entirely different engine?

Also I get working in parallel while you build everything else, but given their apparent lack of progress it seems incredibly wasteful to spend money they may end up needing to deliver a finished product.

The skeleton is built in a 3D package, like Maya, along with the bulk of your animation work. So it exists in files in that program's format, totally separate from the game. You then export data from Maya (or whatever) into a file format the engine can understand. Making big changes to the engine, or even replacing it, often just means you need to re-export all your data, so no big deal.

It's possible that an engine change would change the technical requirements for the skeleton, though. That would mean changing the skeleton, which the means you need to redo all your animations as well as redoing a lot of your motion capture clean up work.

Berious
Nov 13, 2005



Magical

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013


AP posted:

It's pretty funny right now.

Question on the bottom turret on the new constellation.

Answer, no poo poo the actual answer was, we didn't do it the best way because it would have taken too long to fix and we still haven't finished the rest of the constellation after 8 months.

All the issues they've had would be immediately apparent if they'd made the gameplay first so they could actually introduce these ships. They're doing everything rear end-backwards.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004


Exciting Lemon

Mirificus posted:

If only Star Citizens would look at CIG as critically.



Oh poo poo I'm crossing a line guys.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004


Exciting Lemon

Well since the line has already been crossed...

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

First, call your bank/credit card company/credit union/whatever and ask them for the guidelines to get a chargeback. Find out where the forms are located, etc. Then send a response to CIG:

Explain very calmly and politely that CIG has failed to provide the product they advertised, that there is evidence that the product they intend to deliver is not the product that was advertised when you made your purchase, and that there is no timeline for the delivery of that product. Then say that you have numerous examples of them providing refunds to others without any kind of special circumstances whatsoever and that while you would prefer to work things out with them directly you are willing to utilize the chargeback process if necessary. Explain that you have already contacted your financial institution regarding the chargeback process and they have been extremely supportive. Emphasize that it is very clear that CIG does not have a cohesive return policy, that you will not accept anything less than a full refund, and then list out the individual transactions that you want refunded. Do not ask for a refund on any transactions regarding subscriptions or physical goods that have been delivered (hence specifying individual transactions). Reinforce that you have already been very patient with them and that X days/weeks is an unreasonable amount of time to wait for a response.

Be prepared to follow through with a chargeback. CIG is in the wrong here.

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot



that's a whole lotta words i won't read

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Loiosh posted:

I've offered my feelings and opinions and respect hearing those of others. I've learned a great deal here, which is why I have enjoyed visiting when I have time.

I enjoy your posts. By my own experience I realize how often people (me included) think that developing some incredibly complex piece of software is easy just because it's some that appears simple at first, or is very low-key. So your posts detailing some of the progress that they've actually made are interesting.

At the same time, you have to be willingly blind if you don't realize that the whole project is in deep poo poo. Their approach to building the game (make different semi-independent modules and then join them together) would be a herculean effort for a game with their scope if they already had the core of the system ready. Without that it is just batshit crazy to try to work that way, as they have discovered by now.

Anybody could have told them that, somebody must have done so. And yet here we are, 3 years later, with all sorts of disconnected stuff floating around, and them trying to somehow bolt it together. So their cutlass looks real nice but when plugged to their physics and flight engine it just doesn't have enough thrusters to work as advertised, whoooops! So instead of doing the logical thing (gently caress "realism!" those thrusters, when plugged to the cutlass, will have enough power to move that fat ship around) they go and decide to design yet another ship that is actually able to fit that role.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Agrajag posted:

that's a whole lotta words i won't read

He said the only game that comes even close to SC in ambition is ARMA

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Well since the line has already been crossed...

Do what I do in life and draw your own drat lines, look in the mirror every morning and shout I AM A TIGER at yourself until you faint, make your own rules then smash them, punch yourself, gently caress everything, the whole world is a stage and I am going to poo poo on it

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003



I've got an ambitious game I need funding for. It's a deal at only 1,000,000 USD.

(I would kill for the emails of all these RSI suckers.)

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Well since the line has already been crossed...
Oh dear. Please don't get consumers to invoke their rights.

Also, not a cult:

Mirificus fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Nov 12, 2015

MrDorf
Apr 28, 2006



Grimey Drawer

peter gabriel posted:

He said the only game that comes even close to SC in ambition is ARMA

I love the idea of ARMA and I've been playing with the mission editor in every version of it since Op Flashpoint. That said, I've slowly come to accept that the actual act of playing ARMA is not fun.

Berious
Nov 13, 2005


peter gabriel posted:

He said the only game that comes even close to SC in ambition is ARMA

Something about evil publishers caught my eye too.

Amarcarts
Feb 21, 2007

This looks a lot like suffering.


So it's been more than 10 business days, can we assume the baby PU is a meconium ileus?

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


peter gabriel posted:

He said the only game that comes even close to SC in ambition is ARMA
They also said, "With SC CIG is trying to build things up the RIGHT way from the beginning rather than trying to hack things over time."

Othin
Nov 20, 2002



Hair Elf

MrDorf posted:

I love the idea of ARMA and I've been playing with the mission editor in every version of it since Op Flashpoint. That said, I've slowly come to accept that the actual act of playing ARMA is not fun.

Yeah, some of my favorite gaming memories are things that have come out of the Flashpoint/ARMA editors, but the single player games are always janky pieces of poo poo (though I loved Resistance).

Berious
Nov 13, 2005


My first google hit for "star citizen evil publishers" is https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/citizens/13200-Fan-Spotlight-Comics-And-Fiction

Nice to know the genesis of that comic. Getting a shout-out from the CIG is a little like if Sega acknowledged Coldsteel the Hedgehog

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Mirificus posted:

They also said, "With SC CIG is trying to build things up the RIGHT way from the beginning rather than trying to hack things over time."

Thank god, I am FED THE gently caress UP of all these god loving drat games devs that insist on doing things wrong from the beginning :argh: it really burns my loving biscuits

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.


AP posted:

It's pretty funny right now.

Question on the bottom turret on the new constellation.

Answer, no poo poo the actual answer was, we didn't do it the best way because it would have taken too long to fix and we still haven't finished the rest of the constellation after 8 months.

The toilet is right under the shower.



It's really convenient and futuristic, and since there's no toilet paper in there (and it would get wet and gross anyway), you can just stand on your hands and use the shower-head as a bidet after you do your business.

Matlock Birthmark
Sep 24, 2005

I wanted this to happen!!


Soiled Meat

peter gabriel posted:

Thank god, I am FED THE gently caress UP of all these god loving drat games devs that insist on doing things wrong from the beginning :argh: it really burns my loving biscuits

I'm glad we are finally beyond the dark times where you needed a game before you started selling virtual goods in the game. Star Citizen is fixing all sorts of problems and keeping PC gaming alive.

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010


G0RF posted:

The toilet is right under the shower.



It's really convenient and futuristic, and since there's no toilet paper in there (and it would get wet and gross anyway), you can just stand on your hands and use the shower-head as a bidet after you do your business.

Someone should put the three seashells on the side there.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013



MrDorf posted:

I love the idea of ARMA and I've been playing with the mission editor in every version of it since Op Flashpoint. That said, I've slowly come to accept that the actual act of playing ARMA is not fun.
Depends on the map and the mission for me. With ARMA 2 there were always lot of different servers running a whole gamut of game types, so the variety kept it fresh and it wasn't that hard to find something I enjoyed doing.

I haven't played ARMA 3 in a good long while, but last time I checked 99% of the servers were some stupid zombie bullshit or wasteland, and if you don't particularly like that playstyle you're poo poo out of luck. Maybe it's just because it isn't as mature yet, I don't know.

G0RF posted:

The toilet is right under the shower.



It's really convenient and futuristic, and since there's no toilet paper in there (and it would get wet and gross anyway), you can just stand on your hands and use the shower-head as a bidet after you do your business.
You don't need to stand on your hands, that handle on the right reverses the gravity. Just make sure you flush first.

Star Citizen is all about fidelity, and we're getting a window on a 100% authentic well thought out totally plausible space going culture here. It just looks like they've only thought this poo poo through at the most superficial level to your untrained eye!

tooterfish fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Nov 12, 2015

Berious
Nov 13, 2005


G0RF posted:

The toilet is right under the shower.



It's really convenient and futuristic, and since there's no toilet paper in there (and it would get wet and gross anyway), you can just stand on your hands and use the shower-head as a bidet after you do your business.

Did Chris ever mention zero G turds? Asking for a friend

Ohtsam
Feb 5, 2010

Not this shit again.


peter gabriel posted:

He said the only game that comes even close to SC in ambition is ARMA

Main reason ARMA goes so in-depth with trying to make combat so realistic is because they already did the work for another program on the same engine called VBS3 (virtual battle space) for the US and other military's to conduct virtual combat training. This is also why ARMA is so moddable. It's pretty much the consumer grade version.

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012



One of the rules of good customer service: Donít Leave Customers in Limbo

Hey it's only been 5 weeks since they last responded to me, they are GREAT customer service types

2DCAT
Jun 24, 2015

pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssss sssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssss



Gravy Boat 2k


:gary:

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot


Sappo569 posted:

One of the rules of good customer service: Donít Leave Customers in Limbo

Hey it's only been 5 weeks since they last responded to me, they are GREAT customer service types

stop being so entitled customer service isn't here for your needs and grievances

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Matlock Birthmark posted:

I'm glad we are finally beyond the dark times where you needed a game before you started selling virtual goods in the game. Star Citizen is fixing all sorts of problems and keeping PC gaming alive.

Agreed, hopefully this paves the way to a system where we just set fire to money as soon as we get it

Meta-Mollusk
May 2, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Grimey Drawer

Othin posted:

Yeah, some of my favorite gaming memories are things that have come out of the Flashpoint/ARMA editors, but the single player games are always janky pieces of poo poo (though I loved Resistance).

The best things about the original Operation Flashpoint and its two expansions were the awful writing and absolutely magical voice acting. To be fair the combat could be fun too, depending on the mission.

Meta-Mollusk fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 13, 2015

Jst0rm
Sep 16, 2012


Grimey Drawer

its hard to pay for customer service when you have croberts taking a director check, a writer check, a producer check, a game director check and a programmer check.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003




5 out of :yarg:

Tortolia
Dec 29, 2005

Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008


Grimey Drawer

Loiosh posted:

I think around $1,500 or so including gifts. It's all in the goonswarm google spreadsheet, though not updated for some package upgrades. (For those curious, this is under half of what I've gifted to friends on Steam: )

I consider it a sunk cost at this point. At the moment I'm concerned that CIG may fail, but I would, being honest, like to see them succeed, because I like the idea of the game.

You seem like a good dude and I am glad you are financially stable enough to write $1500 off. That said, given all of your justified concerns you really should get a refund. Your donation is not going to make or break the project, but keeping your money in when you are aware of your consumer rights is basically enabling their bad decisions further and telling them that you are OK with their actions. You can always put more money in down the road when or if they address your concerns.

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003



Tortolia posted:

You seem like a good dude and I am glad you are financially stable enough to write $1500 off. That said, given all of your justified concerns you really should get a refund. Your donation is not going to make or break the project, but keeping your money in when you are aware of your consumer rights is basically enabling their bad decisions further and telling them that you are OK with their actions. You can always put more money in down the road when or if they address your concerns.

Tortolia posted:

You seem like a good dude and I am glad you are financially stable enough to write $1500 off. That said, given all of your justified concerns you really should get a refund. Your donation is not going to make or break the project, but keeping your money in when you are aware of your consumer rights is basically enabling their bad decisions further and telling them that you are OK with their actions. You can always put more money in down the road when or if they address your concerns.

Tortolia posted:

You seem like a good dude and I am glad you are financially stable enough to write $1500 off. That said, given all of your justified concerns you really should get a refund. Your donation is not going to make or break the project, but keeping your money in when you are aware of your consumer rights is basically enabling their bad decisions further and telling them that you are OK with their actions. You can always put more money in down the road when or if they address your concerns.
Seriously. At this point CIG is out of control. Don't enable them any further and save yourself some money.

Spaced God
Feb 8, 2014

All torment, trouble, wonder and amazement
Inhabits here: some heavenly power guide us
Out of this fearful country!





Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Oh poo poo I'm crossing a line guys.

Making a psuedo-official threat analysis of some dude on the internet? Not crossing that line. Not at all.

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Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003



Beer4thebeerGod, you have betrayed Christ Roberts. How do you plead your case to space court?

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