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Romes128
Dec 28, 2008




Fun Shoe

Amarcarts posted:

I'm kind of torn on the issue. I think it's important to be reasonable because then if the person resorts to a chargeback the bank is more likely to side with them. It seems like CIG isn't having a lot of chargebacks brought against them because they'll cave in and do a refund when someone threatens.

If someone does a chargeback under normal circumstances (like with retailer) they run the risk of losing the case and not getting their money back. Chargeback cases go like this;

1. Customer initiates chargeback.
2. Visa, MC, or Amex sends the business a letter (or in Amex's case all their chargeback cases are done online) saying who wants their money back and why.
3. Business has to prove it adequately produced or sold product or service (receipts, package tracking, etc).
4. Decision gets made whether the customer gets refunded or not based on the businesses respose.
5. Business is notified if the refund is automatically deducted from their account (they lose the case) or they win.

It's an easy win against CIG cause they've not made a game, so they'll refund if someone threatens them with a chargeback. It also saves them a lot of time in responding to those cases.

In normal cases like someone claims they never got their package the business will send tracking info saying this person signed for the package and the customer will probably not get the refund. Huge companies like Amazon don't give a gently caress and will refund anyone for any reason cause it will cost less to do that than to pay people to respond to chargebacks. But smaller operations will absolutely respond to chargebacks to keep their money.

So yeah, if you're getting bullshit responses from CIG just chargeback and you'll get the full amount back.

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A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx


I wonder if Patrick will ever come back or if he was actually just fired for approving too many refunds. Definitely seems like there's been a shift in how these are being handled the past week or so.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


College Slice

Deki posted:

What is the reference to Alganon? Googling it only gets me images of a lovely wow clone (and holy poo poo is it a clone)

Simple really.

In 2009 I was approached by the original creator's investors to help out with the game because it was delayed, over budget etc.

I agreed, then subsequently the creator and other key people exited the project. I remained in charge, eventually becoming an investor of the company, Quest Online, and thus being responsible for the project in 2010.

I have been running it since and got it on Steam earlier this year.

It was a poo poo-storm when I took it over. And for a game that was all but dead, I'm still running it, having converted it to F2P, improved on it, developed an expansion pack etc.

http://mmofallout.com/derek-smart-david-allen-fired-alganon-should-not-have-launched/

http://mmofallout.com/derek-smart-responds-to-david-allens-lawsuit-over-derek-smarts-comment-over-david-allens-firing/

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=21889

http://www.examiner.com/article/derek-smart-reveals-alganon-s-health-new-developer-blog

Whatever Wulf Knight is going on about, relates to the two lawsuits (both of which went nowhere) that the original project creator brought against me, the other investors etc. As usualy, he's being a dick with revisionist history; since I actually saved the project from closure and have poured millions into it.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/90197

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.



A Neurotic Jew posted:

I wonder if Patrick will ever come back or if he was actually just fired for approving too many refunds. Definitely seems like there's been a shift in how these are being handled the past week or so.

Wait Patrick was (maybe) shitcanned as well?

That was the lead mod out of UK, yeah?

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx


naa customer service dude Patrick who's been handling alot of the refunds that get posted in this thread. A mass email went out saying he's taking "personal time".

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003







Fallen Rib

When I quit drinking lapsang souchong made an admirable replacement for my beloved highlands and islands.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

How long does everyone think it will be before Sandi snaps.

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx


Omi-Polari posted:

How long does everyone think it will be before Sandi snaps.

CitizenCon 2015.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them


Grimey Drawer

Dusty Lens posted:

Wait Patrick was (maybe) shitcanned as well?

That was the lead mod out of UK, yeah?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/citizens/pixelpicker

Last active yesterday on forums.

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008




Fun Shoe

Omi-Polari posted:

How long does everyone think it will be before Sandi snaps.

lol

like she hasn't already

Broccoli Cat
Mar 8, 2013

"so, am I right in understanding that you're a bigot or aficionado of racist humor?




STAR CITIZEN is for WHITES ONLY!




:lesnick:









HEY, I just mixed red wine with beer and a squeeze of lemon and it isn't half bad!




(edit: I added some returns for perfection)

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


College Slice

Romes128 posted:

If someone does a chargeback under normal circumstances (like with retailer) they run the risk of losing the case and not getting their money back. Chargeback cases go like this;

1. Customer initiates chargeback.
2. Visa, MC, or Amex sends the business a letter (or in Amex's case all their chargeback cases are done online) saying who wants their money back and why.
3. Business has to prove it adequately produced or sold product or service (receipts, package tracking, etc).
4. Decision gets made whether the customer gets refunded or not based on the businesses respose.
5. Business is notified if the refund is automatically deducted from their account (they lose the case) or they win.

It's an easy win against CIG cause they've not made a game, so they'll refund if someone threatens them with a chargeback. It also saves them a lot of time in responding to those cases.

In normal cases like someone claims they never got their package the business will send tracking info saying this person signed for the package and the customer will probably not get the refund. Huge companies like Amazon don't give a gently caress and will refund anyone for any reason cause it will cost less to do that than to pay people to respond to chargebacks. But smaller operations will absolutely respond to chargebacks to keep their money.

So yeah, if you're getting bullshit responses from CIG just chargeback and you'll get the full amount back.

Yes. And this is precisely why we advise people to not even waste time going back and forth. Initiate the chargeback, tell the bank/paypal they haven't delivered (they haven't) on the project, that it's now one year late etc. The more chargebacks they get, the worse it is for their vendor account and it WILL impact their hold back from the bank.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them


Grimey Drawer

Omi-Polari posted:

How long does everyone think it will be before Sandi snaps.

Some whale just needs to put the justification for the refund request as "I need the money for an audition in Monte Carlo".

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.



A Neurotic Jew posted:

naa customer service dude Patrick who's been handling alot of the refunds that get posted in this thread. A mass email went out saying he's taking "personal time".

Oh. Then they probably told everyone he was working with that they're on hold until he gets back.

Gets back from being told to take a ride on the same bike as that programmer I'd bet.

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx


oh poo poo Patrick had a kid! Congrats Patrick! Very cute. :3:

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008




Fun Shoe

AP posted:

Some whale just needs to put the justification for the refund request as "I need the money for an audition in Monte Carlo".

Or that they saw a video of her singing the nazi anthem.

she'll loving have a stroke scouring the internet for that video.

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012



Omi-Polari posted:

How long does everyone think it will be before Sandi snaps.

I'm not sure how someone can sing the Horst-Wessel-Lied on loving livestream and not be completely insane. How can you even think that this is a good idea?

BMan
Oct 31, 2015

KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK




I'm Wulf Knight, long time Star Citizen advocate and investor.
Today I'm at the CIG world headquarters in Los Angeles, California.
I had a nice chat with CIG Chairman, Chris Roberts, about their current situation.
He showed me multiple bank statements, as well as letters from banks and lawyers.
I'm sure that all the current refund problems at CIG are being caused by the traditional banking system, not because of a lack of liquidity at CIG.
The traditional banking partners that CIG needs to work with are not able to keep up with the demands of the growing refund requests.
The dozens of people that make up the CIG team are hard at work establishing additional banking partners, that eventually will make dealing with CIG easier for all their customers around the world. For now, I hope that everyone will continue working on Star Citizen projects that will help make the world a better place.

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008




Fun Shoe

BMan posted:

I'm Wulf Knight, long time Star Citizen advocate and investor.
Today I'm at the CIG world headquarters in Los Angeles, California.
I had a nice chat with CIG Chairman, Chris Roberts, about their current situation.
He showed me multiple bank statements, as well as letters from banks and lawyers.
I'm sure that all the current refund problems at CIG are being caused by the traditional banking system, not because of a lack of liquidity at CIG.
The traditional banking partners that CIG needs to work with are not able to keep up with the demands of the growing refund requests.
The dozens of people that make up the CIG team are hard at work establishing additional banking partners, that eventually will make dealing with CIG easier for all their customers around the world. For now, I hope that everyone will continue working on Star Citizen projects that will help make the world a better place.

Did u show him your dick tho

Meta-Mollusk
May 2, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Grimey Drawer

ideate posted:

After they offered me half the value of my account, I asked why I couldn't get a full refund and quoted the polygon article where croberts said "We don't publicize it, but when people reach out to us and talk to us in a rational manner, in most cases we've refunded them," and "We don't want people to be part of the project if they're not happy."

so customer support said:


what the gently caress

ugh i'm such an idiot for funding this trainwreck

anyway chargeback tomorrow if they don't refund my whole account

thanks derek you're my only friend

Holy poo poo, and I thought the people behind OUYA were bad. :wtchris:

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.


AP posted:



That guy either gets his shoes wet a lot and doesn't dry them or spends long periods on his knees.

It's sad that whoever took that picture that it was cool and looked cool.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015




Fish Fry Andy posted:

Holy poo poo I didn't realize that MY BOY Stew360 is going full white knight for Star Citizen. God bless his crazy Quebecois rear end.

That guy is a crazy moron.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!



Are you threatening us?

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010


FrankieGoes posted:

That guy is a crazy moron.

Stew 360's insane, barely comprehensible written english was one of the best things about playing Planetside 2.

grimcreaper
Jan 7, 2012



fuzzknot posted:

I can't believe you didn't savage the guy who said ketchup and hot dogs were made for each other.

Ketchup and hot dogs ARE meant for each other. If you disagree then your obviously a Citizen in disguise.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


gently caress all wrong with a nice cup of PG

eonwe
Aug 11, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

Fish Fry Andy posted:

Stew 360's insane, barely comprehensible written english was one of the best things about playing Planetside 2.

NC player AND star citizen white knight

:yikes:

CrazyTolradi
Oct 2, 2011

It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.



Amarcarts posted:

I'm kind of torn on the issue. I think it's important to be reasonable because then if the person resorts to a chargeback the bank is more likely to side with them. It seems like CIG isn't having a lot of chargebacks brought against them because they'll cave in and do a refund when someone threatens. This means that it's likely people will get their money back but also probably that very few actual chargebacks have been filed against the company so they aren't on the banks' radars as scammy. Also: PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPP
The reason why I'm of the opinion chargebacks are the best way to go is because of this"

Cig CS/Sandi posted:

This is all done on a discretionary basis and we are not refunding everyone who emails because of personal hardships and nor are we obligated to. It sounds like you are now threatening us?
They're now telling people that they don't have a right to a refund, which. depending on your jurisdiction, may well be a flat out lie (as an Australian, it would be for me). Screw it, don't bother wasting any more time and effort on this abysmal failure of a project than you have to. You shouldn't have to hold a chargeback over their CS rep to get your money back

It's also highly loving hilarious that CIG finds it "threatening" to have people exercise their rights as a consumer. How dare the non-believers doubt the glorious vision of mush mouth prophet Croberts.

fuzzknot
Mar 22, 2009

Yip yip yip yip yip


grimcreaper posted:

Ketchup and hot dogs ARE meant for each other. If you disagree then your obviously a Citizen in disguise.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha--I actually don't care; Bootcha is the one who considers it an abomination.

I consider hot dogs in general an abomination.

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

D_Smart posted:

Yes. And this is precisely why we advise people to not even waste time going back and forth. Initiate the chargeback, tell the bank/paypal they haven't delivered (they haven't) on the project, that it's now one year late etc. The more chargebacks they get, the worse it is for their vendor account and it WILL impact their hold back from the bank.

No the whole refund process allowed for some comedy. When they asked if Derek Smart was the reason for the refund I said no. Then I pointed out that I'd read CRoberts response and indicated that I thought he had gone completely insane, and indicated that no CEO should behave like that.

Star Cititzen: Reason for refund: Chris Roberts is a madman

The way they consider taking legal action against you reminds me of the way Enron would try to shut anyone down, and most recent large scams. They need to silence people who could shatter the confidence trick and cut off the cashflow.

CrazyTolradi posted:

The reason why I'm of the opinion chargebacks are the best way to go is because of this"

They're now telling people that they don't have a right to a refund, which. depending on your jurisdiction, may well be a flat out lie (as an Australian, it would be for me). Screw it, don't bother wasting any more time and effort on this abysmal failure of a project than you have to. You shouldn't have to hold a chargeback over their CS rep to get your money back

It's also highly loving hilarious that CIG finds it "threatening" to have people exercise their rights as a consumer. How dare the non-believers doubt the glorious vision of mush mouth prophet Croberts.

CIG are threatened by legal rights that they are required to fulfill. Every refund is pushing this project closer to extinction now if they are responding like this. Maybe there's only a few hundred thousand left?

Devian666 fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Nov 18, 2015

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001




jaegerx posted:

Are you threatening us?


fuctifino fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Nov 18, 2015

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012




:psypop:

McGiggins
Apr 4, 2014

by R. Guyovich


Lipstick Apathy

The literal stuff of nightmares.

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003




fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001




McGiggins posted:

The literal stuff of nightmares.

Those images aren't mine by the way. I found them on GIS.

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001





lol :five:

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx


the anniversary sale is going to be so shamelessly exploitative. Gonna be a good time.

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx



:golfclap:

Amarcarts
Feb 21, 2007

This looks a lot like suffering.


She's more JPEG now than woman. Twisted and evil...

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Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



Romes128 posted:

Did u show him your dick tho

The purpose is less that and more of an obligatory pubes check to be allowed into the building.

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