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Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



Fleta Mcgurn posted:

Malus Domestica
1093 words

First, the language really didn't vibe with me. There was a lot of adverb use, "strangely" sticks out in my memory as a quite heinous example of this. The whole piece was strange, you really shouldn't be including the specific word, "strange," in here: the reader will get it (OR SO I THOUGHT!) There was generally lot of telling me what was happening rather than being evocative in language, with either a sense of the place (which was the second best thing about this) or the lyricism of the prose.

On the story front I had no sense of their love, either forbidden or the love felt between them, and so I couldn't feel her loss. Showing just their argument even further meant I couldn't feel her loss. Turning to smell a pillow is cliched, and you jumped away from your cliche rights when you went with incest (or step sibling love if we're going all Amazon self pub on this.)

I liked the idea you used of the imagery in her sights. The camera mention brought it up clumsily. As most photographers will tell you, you can't really capture images of inspired thought or at least it's extremely difficult. If you expounded on her seeing her memories of him, their love, or their rejection of societies mores I think it would give you more scope to elicit and emotional response in the reader.

The pacing was ok to kinda poor, but with a bit too much padding for writing not tight enough in general. I liked the way it meandered through her thoughts but you could either put more impetus on her journey through the house and memory, or you could go into more detail with each. You wrote what you did and I can appreciate that, but there's good ideas here that would really work better with more thought and effort put into them (don't revisit it unless you really want to.)

The ghostly door was trite, there should be a better reason for her to explore their history in the house, but I did like the sense of life and a reason for their betraying society with their passion, it's just you didn't show their passion. Ultimately that twist of magical reasoning was shown too early. If you kept that back, leveled the foreshadowing of it enough to build tension, and then really hit it with a high note plot point it could have rescued this piece of sibling boning flash fic.

Hawklad posted:

Fleta McGurn - Malus Domestica

Okay so the ghost of her twin brother/lover comes back in the form of a plaster apple tree and either saves her from the heat wave or kills her so she can be with him. I guess it's sort of interesting that they are twins and also lovers but boy do you have to tread lightly with that. I never developed any sympathy at all for Marina, she's not a like-able character, so I'm not really rooting for this relationship to work out. There was a long section of exposition in the middle that tuned me out. I also didn't get the significance of the apple tree. Why apples?

I really, really dislike this critique. The story was clumsy, and I haven't read any of the others but I wouldn't argue with a DM. What I would argue with is your disbelief of Fleta McGurn's choice of story. It is not supposed to be a beginning/middle/end tale. For me Fleta is trying to evoke a sense of loss (which they failed at,) and you're caught up with ghosts? Let go, man. You can't understand someone's loss, or what they go through when they do lose the love of their life. Fleta tried something in describing that feeling, with a bit of magic thrown in and a dodgy ending about embraces that are thoroughly undeserved. Instead you're worried about rooting for characters or relationships? That's great if you're reading a pulp spaceship adventure, but this story is about the experience of loss not lightsabres, good guys to cheer for and bad guys to boo. It's pretty obvious by the end the brother lover is dead (at least in non-Ent form,) so why are you rooting for a relationship?

My worry is that this could have been a really great, evocative account of the madness in loss and you'd be worried about the main character not being likable in their pain. Thoroughly deserving of a DM, but for me you have the wrong reasons for it in your critique.

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hotsoupdinner
Apr 12, 2007
eat up

Mrenda posted:


I really, really dislike this critique.

Nobody cares.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!




Mrenda posted:

I really, really dislike this critique.

:O

hotsoupdinner posted:

Nobody cares.

:thumbsup:

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.


hotsoupdinner posted:

Nobody cares.

Actually, I do! Mrenda's critique was quite a bit more helpful. :downs:


That said, let's ALL not pick on people who are willing to do crits. It takes time and effort that a lot of us aren't able or willing to expend.

hotsoupdinner
Apr 12, 2007
eat up

Fleta Mcgurn posted:

Actually, I do! Mrenda's critique was quite a bit more helpful. :downs:


That said, let's ALL not pick on people who are willing to do crits. It takes time and effort that a lot of us aren't able or willing to expend.

Doing crits is a good thing, but telling other people that their crits are not good is a Bad Thing to do because it invalidates another's work and point-of-view. It doesn't help anyone and it sounds whiny to boot.

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002


Mrenda posted:

I really, really dislike this critique.

I'll judge this brawl. Mrenda, hawklad, throw some toxxs in the ring to battle this out.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!




Fleta Mcgurn posted:

Actually, I do! Mrenda's critique was quite a bit more helpful. :downs:


That said, let's ALL not pick on people who are willing to do crits. It takes time and effort that a lot of us aren't able or willing to expend.

im gonna pick on whoever i like

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!




nerd

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



N. Senada posted:

Weather Forecast: Dust Storm
Flash:One of your characters is extremely wealthy


Osmond Diaz, King of Kings
870 words

I'd never heard of the original this is based on, but it tells like a basic fairy tale. Your writing is simplistic to the point of prosaicism. It's wish fulfillment: arrogant man gets his comeuppance, with a side of a servant doing a little dance about his death. From the moment I started reading it I was predicting what would happen next. Would the arrogant Supremity be brought low? Or would a pitiful servant be punished for ignoring his boss? The story ended with the great lord dead, and everyone cheered.

I think you have a few choices to make with a story like this. My first feeling was obviously channeling the origins of the literary idea, poetry. It could work very well in the poetic form. Either as outright poetry (a mini-epic if such a thing exists,) or as prose-poetry with the to and fro and quality of words making up for the simplistic message of the story. With those you're either looking for the structure of the poetic form to lift you, or the movement of verse-like writing. I'd imagine the formal poetry to be easier to sell to a reader, even if it takes a lot of thought to write. Any prose-like poetry can be very hit and miss depending on the reader.

Another choice you could make is to turn it into a children's story. Bad man deserves a bad thing happening to him, which happens. All the peasants rejoice. Which is what happened. However your turn of phrase puts it outside of any particular age group. You could make it for a young age, and if you could make it fun for the adult reading it to the child you'd be one story into a well selling anthology. You could make it for the 8-11 market, but you'd have to tighten the language to writing that's accessible but also pushes the reader. A bit of nastiness in the imagery would be nice without going for shocking gore. I don't think this would work for any age group between tween and YA (11-14 is definitely a respected market for authors by now) but it could work as the outline of a broader story. Tell the tale of the conquering of the lands, his bad deeds, and his dismissal of local lore about the harshness of the area's climate. Ecological arrogance destroys the destroyer and saves the people.

Where you did go with it didn't work. Your language was stilted, and didn't draw me in. It has a surface level message that doesn't need or warrant any consideration so it can't work on that level with punchy, direct prose. It could work if it was evocative, but you'd have to really get into the destructive force of the dust storm, the shattering windows, the despair of the servant at the sludgy water, the concern with abandoning the Lord for fear of retribution (he's survived so far!)

I'd work on the pacing of the writing at a paragraph level. Dedicate each paragraph to a single thought, theme or feeling. Don't jump around with multiple thoughts or concerns with each, rather dedicate it to a single, strong image or feeling you want to create for the reader. Long winding sentences that bring the reader to grandness before leading into short, staccato direct messages could really work with the whirling nature of a storm with the power to destroy. Rapid fire concerns from the servant could show his anxiety at the situation and at thoughts of leaving his master, before they wind down to calmed, regular sentences with his relief at getting away from a despot. Bold, strong words changing to weak pleading would work for his Supremeness being laid low.

For me you didn't create any image beyond cartoon simplicity, but in that sense I could picture what was happening even if what I pictured was from a low budget animation factory. I think a simple story like this is an opportunity to play around with your prose and style as it leaves you space to focus on thematic concerns rather than storytelling (or getting your ideas out within a wordcount.) If I was you I would (I wouldn't, I'd totally write something new) I would try putting this story into different forms with different stylistic touches that drive the simple premise. It's really hard to take an extremely simple tale and turn it into magic. Writing with surface level simplicity and accessibility has the power to become extremely important as literature, but it is probably the hardest thing to do. Or it is for me, at least.

Edit:

Fleta Mcgurn posted:

Actually, I do! Mrenda's critique was quite a bit more helpful. :downs:

In fairness to Hawklad he was critiquing every story submitted, so giving short responses to them is all anyone can expect. The only reason I did your story over anyone else's was because it looked to be easily readable from the paragraph structure. And the reason I just did N. Senada's was because it was the next story. I had no clue when I started either that one was a DM and one is getting a new avatar.

It has been pointed out to me, repeatedly, that this type of up front debate over interpretations isn't really a TD thing, so I'll be careful not to jump in in future. The Dorkroom (The other CC forum) is a great community that's really helped me with my photography. It's especially good for being really straight up about any discussion or thoughts on someone's art so I jumped in with both feet at the prospect of serious writing talk. Another reason is I go to a poetry night where it's really difficult to get a discussion involving more than, "I really liked your poem," "me too." I know I wouldn't write a critique for every story, let alone an in depth, fully aware critique, so fair play to Hawklad for that, and fair play for winning the week before (so he has to do it, I think.)

Mrenda fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Dec 14, 2016

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.



you come over here and say that *readies nunchuks*

e: sorry, hawklad, wasn't trying to be a dick to you by saying that.

Fleta Mcgurn fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Dec 14, 2016

Boaz-Jachim
Sep 20, 2015

CANERE CORAM LEONE


In. Flash, please.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







crabrock posted:

I'll judge this brawl. Mrenda, hawklad, throw some toxxs in the ring to battle this out.

Mrenda you should do this, story fights are good. You get to beat someone and you get a story at the end.

Hawklad
May 3, 2003


College Slice

I'll brawl with Mrenda. Reading 17,167 of your lovely garbage words in about three hours (while at work) and then writing brilliant, detailed, and incisive critiques (as I did) should be all the preparation I need. :toxx: me.

edit: and no worries Fleta

Hawklad fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Dec 14, 2016

Bad Seafood
Dec 10, 2010

If you must blink, do it now.


Incompetence is my area of expertise, though I could use a flash of inspiration.

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



Hawklad posted:

I'll brawl with Mrenda. Reading 17,167 of your lovely garbage words in about three hours (while at work) and then writing brilliant, detailed, and incisive critiques (as I did) should be all the preparation I need. :toxx: me.

edit: and no worries Fleta

Cool. I'll do a word war if manufactured literary beef is what drives this place. I've been awake all night so I can't do it today, and I'm spending about eight hours traveling with yet more hours in a waiting toom tomorrow but I can get to it Friday/Saturdayish, presuming I don't "gently caress it" and write, edit and post my response in a sleep deprived fit of confidence.

It just seems a bit delicate for me. "Dishonourable" mentions for bad writing with requests to front up like we have to entertain millions of manbabies so people call for a :toxx: based on my one post in a year. Aren't I supposed to work my way up the card? I could never have imagined robust discussion and critique would call for a ladder match between the last TD Winner and single entry DM.

Chili
Jan 23, 2004

college kids ain't shit


Fun Shoe

Mrenda posted:

Cool. I'll do a word war if manufactured literary beef is what drives this place. I've been awake all night so I can't do it today, and I'm spending about eight hours traveling with yet more hours in a waiting toom tomorrow but I can get to it Friday/Saturdayish, presuming I don't "gently caress it" and write, edit and post my response in a sleep deprived fit of confidence.

It just seems a bit delicate for me. "Dishonourable" mentions for bad writing with requests to front up like we have to entertain millions of manbabies so people call for a :toxx: based on my one post in a year. Aren't I supposed to work my way up the card? I could never have imagined robust discussion and critique would call for a ladder match between the last TD Winner and single entry DM.

You slung some poo poo, so there's a brawl. And yeah, it was one post, but it was a post where you went out of your way to poo poo on someone.

Also, as nice as your summary of Thunderdome is, you're not above all of this by identifying it. The thread is called Thunerdome. Obviously, there's an intense nature to it. It's of course in good fun, and if you don't want to brawl and entertain us manbabies than don't do it. You won't find too many people begging for you to write words for their entertainment. If people want entertainment they'll read a Stephen King book, or Harry Potter, or comics, or something on the bath room wall, there's plenty of better options.

steeltoedsneakers
Jul 26, 2016







Lurk more. Kayfabe more. Word-fight those who would second-guess you. Feed the engine with your words.

Let's get this train back on the tracks - mojo and I need a third judge to join us.

e: Chairchucker volunteered. Panel is complete.

steeltoedsneakers fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Dec 14, 2016

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

The man was stunningly well dressed. He had a smart looking jacket, and a really neat looking cape, the lining of which was shimmering and sparkling in more than Oriental splendour, which is a great deal of splendour indeed, just ask Kipling.



steeltoedsneakers posted:

Lurk more. Kayfabe more.

Nah.

steeltoedsneakers
Jul 26, 2016







Boaz-Jachim posted:

In. Flash, please.
:siren: In room twenty-six a nurse looked at him with cold undersea eyes. :siren:


Bad Seafood posted:

Incompetence is my area of expertise, though I could use a flash of inspiration.
:siren: (Pieces of murder fall slow as opal chips through glycerine. ) :siren:

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



Erogenous Beef posted:

Prompt: Hail

Frozen Out (1,057 words)

I enjoyed this. Although I felt you had more fun writing the build up to Esther's dastardly plan than the climax and resolution of it, purely because I had more fun reading that part. The beginning section was bright, and although the puns and smartness annoyed me at first seeing you commit to it made me commit to it. The same goes for the immediate child orientated language which carried well as I got into the story, although there did seem to be a few lapses in the succinctness in and style of your prose.

The second section felt forced. It seemed like you were rushing in the plot rather than playing with tropes, words and expectations. The expectations part is based on my own surprise at the direction the story was taking as I got into the writing, countered by the lack of freshness to the idea in the second part once I'd bitten. If you were to continue the newness or keep my surprise through the rest of the story I imagine you'd need more words/room to work up to giggle giving, rather than going for quickfire funniness that sometimes felt unearned. I'd also liked to have seen more time dedicated to highlighting the strain Frosty was under, as well as the problems the town was facing. Past the first third it seemed rushed, and I don't think it's a case of focusing too much on scene setting and build up which felt right, rather you attempting too much story in your wordcount.

The final part was problematic in that it seemed a little forced although it's entirely possible that's imposed on me by regional knowledge. I'm not familiar with woodchucks (sorry, Phil,) so I didn't get the intricacies of Frosty's summoning ritual. The Snapchat line did stand out for me as a let down. I can understand the desire to have our world as a humorous call while showing an alternate and fantastical reality, but I'm not sure if Snapchat has the cultural capital to work at a level that is universal enough. That includes a cold, "snap," snapchat as I'm still not sure if such wordplay was intended seeing as it didn't immediately connect for me, and it's only through this writing I've seen it. I doubt even a Google product, at least any beyond gmail would have enough significance in common recognition to carry the disconnect that's powering the joke (I'm guessing Esther clung to hotmail.)

Something that was nice was the characterisation of both Frosty and Papa Winter. You used their anthropomorphised caricature well while still giving them more personality than that wit their problems. I didn't get that with Esther, "what's her motivation, EB? Why is she doing this to Freezytown?" I'd also liked to have seen more from Frosty's secretary, but given my thoughts on the word limit that would probably be too much.

Ultimately I did enjoy it. It was an easy read that flowed well with nothing dropping me out of the story completely once I knew what the intent was and could buy into it. I would like to see it worked into a slightly longer, fuller story that allowed you polish it up. And it's definitely the type of story I'd want to see more of in writer's circles; charming, airy and playful without going for biting satire or all out HAHAs! It's a refreshing story. And more importantly it was fun to read.

Entenzahn
Nov 15, 2012

What will you say when
your child asks:
why did you fail Thunderdome?



words to live by

BeefSupreme
Sep 14, 2007


I know you were all waiting with bated breath for my return. In. Flash.

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002


Hawklad posted:

I'll brawl with Mrenda. Reading 17,167 of your lovely garbage words in about three hours (while at work) and then writing brilliant, detailed, and incisive critiques (as I did) should be all the preparation I need. :toxx: me.

edit: and no worries Fleta


Mrenda posted:

Cool. I'll do a word war if manufactured literary beef is what drives this place. I've been awake all night so I can't do it today, and I'm spending about eight hours traveling with yet more hours in a waiting toom tomorrow but I can get to it Friday/Saturdayish, presuming I don't "gently caress it" and write, edit and post my response in a sleep deprived fit of confidence.

It just seems a bit delicate for me. "Dishonourable" mentions for bad writing with requests to front up like we have to entertain millions of manbabies so people call for a
:toxx: based on my one post in a year. Aren't I supposed to work my way up the card? I could never have imagined robust discussion and critique would call for a ladder match between the last TD Winner and single entry DM.


:siren: Hawklad vs. Mrenda Brawl

Ok, I haven't read anything by either of you yet, so I can't really custom tailor this to your weaknesses :( But I do want to smash your heads together, because whatever your interaction was, it resulted in whatever the gently caress that pissing and moaning was that Mrenda posted. When I was in middle school I read the 2nd half of Congo (the first half was too boring), and I really liked the parts with the gorillas smashing the poo poo out of people's heads with big rocks.

Your goal is to write me a story where intrepid explorers go into a jungle and find something unexpected. Don't make it treasure (or gorillas). Make it something awesome. Only it doesn't turn out to be so awesome in the end.

Due: Wednesday, Dec 21 @ 10am est, so I can read them on the plane.
Wordcount: 1500 words.

And don't gently caress around with the due date because I hate people not turning in brawls and will absolutely have you banned.

Jagermonster
May 7, 2005

Hey - NIZE HAT!


In

and re: critiquing critiques - that's perfectly fine. It's helpful to writers for someone to say "I disagree with this analysis because . . . ." Y'all are getting obsessed that he phrased it "I really, really dislike this critique" like it was a value judgment. Chill the gently caress out and shut the gently caress up with your critiques of a critique of a critique.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


BLO OD E M PR E SS

of

THUDNER-DOME






Sitting Here posted:

  • :siren: DONíT RESPOND TO CRITIQUES IN THIS THREAD! :siren: If you really want to talk shop about a Thunderdome entry, move the discussion to either the Fiction Advice thread or the Fiction Farm.

  • Funny shitposting is welcome. Unfunny shitposting is just unfunny shiposting, donít do it!!

  • Part of Thunderdome is the idea of kayfabe. While you certainly donít have to participate in it, a bit of showmanship now and then keeps things fun and shows us just how brassy your balls are. Also, it keeps us from crawling too far up our own asses.

  • Whining, griping, blithering and dithering are all frowned upon. Do not be a blubbering unweened tittybaby. Take your lumps and learn from them.



holy gently caress, i have the audacity to have a little sleep and i wake up to you dithering ingrates doing basically every annoying thing listed in the OP

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


BLO OD E M PR E SS

of

THUDNER-DOME






poo poo goddamn i hate every one of your garbage posts, i think im having a meltdown

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002


Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


BLO OD E M PR E SS

of

THUDNER-DOME






thunderdome is so simple, it's possibly the simplest

you write stories, you read stories, you crit stories

if you're funny maybe you can post other things too but that is 100% beyond the capacity of anyone who's posted recently so assume all humor is locked up behind a child-proof safety lock

gently caress

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


BLO OD E M PR E SS

of

THUDNER-DOME






oh yeah and i'm in because gently caress you all, i'm going to destroy you

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!




Sitting Here posted:

poo poo goddamn i hate every one of your garbage posts, i think im having a meltdown

now u kno how i feel whenever i read ur posts

widespread
Aug 5, 2013

I believe I am now no longer in the presence of nice people.




Invigorating prompt. But I think I have an idear on what to write.

Entenzahn
Nov 15, 2012

What will you say when
your child asks:
why did you fail Thunderdome?


Good job guys you made sitting here cry

Entenzahn
Nov 15, 2012

What will you say when
your child asks:
why did you fail Thunderdome?


like unironically, good job

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!




Entenzahn posted:

Good job guys you made sitting here cry

its not v hard all u have to say is that the beach boys r bad

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Mrenda those were good crits

steeltoedsneakers
Jul 26, 2016







BeefSupreme posted:

I know you were all waiting with bated breath for my return. In. Flash.

:siren: Anyone who has ever looked into a mirror knows what this crime is and what it means in terms of lost control when the reflection no longer obeys... :siren:

Erogenous Beef
Dec 20, 2006

i know the filthy secrets of your heart



sebmojo posted:

Mrenda those were good crits

^--- This. Thank you (and hawklad) for the crits. If either/both of you want to have a Beef Literary Bile Bath (patent pending) of a past or future piece, you're welcome to one upon request.

p.s. If you're really burning to discuss stories/crits/the contents of your sphincter, join the IRC channel. Deetz in da OP.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


BLO OD E M PR E SS

of

THUDNER-DOME






id like a burroughs flash rule please

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002


Sitting Here posted:

id like a burroughs flash rule please

manhattan

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hotsoupdinner
Apr 12, 2007
eat up

Flash me please.

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