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8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!



PurpleXVI posted:

Fuses Nightmare to Fist is also just such a clunky-rear end name.

Like, come up with something snappier. Knucklemare, maybe.

Hostile V posted:

Fightmare.


Fight Terrors

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Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


Nightmare Fusion Fist

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




That lovely aircraft reminds me of a last ditch suicide bomber plane Nazi Germany developed at the last stages of the war.
Probably about as useful.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Mobile app won't allow me to edit my post, anyway here's that Nazi plane I referred to:

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?




Did monty cook play Cultist Simulator and decide to steal all the mystical language and strange concepts and then weld it to his insanely lovely game mechanics?

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

By popular demand posted:

That lovely aircraft reminds me of a last ditch suicide bomber plane Nazi Germany developed at the last stages of the war.
Probably about as useful.

It's a shark flying upright. Look at it. Fins, mouth structure at the base.

It's just a shark.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





juggalo baby coffin posted:

Did monty cook play Cultist Simulator and decide to steal all the mystical language and strange concepts and then weld it to his insanely lovely game mechanics?

Raided the same sources (actual occultism and Modernist literature) but had absolutely no thematic or conceptual structure, just stupid +2 to attacks.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I'm glad I give the ol' Cookerino absolutely no benefit of the doubt cause I saw the massive set of charts with nonsense linkages to different parts and thought "I bet this all boils down to unuseable garbage or boring incremental bonuses" and boy howdy, our boy did it. He made punching fear into people's brains boring.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Monte Cook isn't bereft of ideas, but he has no ability to translate them into mechanics. It begins and ends with pluses and minuses.

This reminds me of Monte Cook Presents Mike Mearls' Iron Heroes. It was lauded in its day for making Fighters interesting, but almost all the abilities of its dozen Fighter classes boiled down to bonuses, reducing penalties, and building up tokens to spend for bonuses.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Honestly, Invisible Sun is pretty short on ideas. It's full of little weirdnesses but none of them really mean anything.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


It's like comparing Dungeons the Dragonning to something like Feng Shui. Yeah, sure, Cooke put a guy with a book for a head in there, but he's there entirely to be a guy with a book for a head for one picture. There's no connective tissue to pull it all together and no point to any of it but to look 'evocative'.

Being gonzo or weird without just being aimless and hollow takes a lot of effort.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer



Young Orc

Night10194 posted:

It's like comparing Dungeons the Dragonning to something like Feng Shui. Yeah, sure, Cooke put a guy with a book for a head in there, but he's there entirely to be a guy with a book for a head for one picture. There's no connective tissue to pull it all together and no point to any of it but to look 'evocative'.

Being gonzo or weird without just being aimless and hollow takes a lot of effort.

It's just Numenera 2: Now with Extra Pretentiousness! (Also Numenera is just Monte Cook's World of Darkness 2)

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.


Wapole Languray posted:

Ok this isn't part of the proper F&F, but I figured it'd be nice to put one of the Fortes in full so you can see just how blindingly bad they are:




So, the arcs appear to be either, "I am good at punching things," or "My power is out of control,"? Maybe it will be more complicated than that, but it seems real dumb so far.

megane
Jun 20, 2008





Monte finally clued in to what players really care about. Joy: "The boss dropped a better weapon." Despair: "The GM won't let me use my Bluff skill to convince the cleric I'm his god."

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




To be fair to Monte, human beings have an extremely simple reward-reaponse loop.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



Night10194 posted:

It's like comparing Dungeons the Dragonning to something like Feng Shui. Yeah, sure, Cooke put a guy with a book for a head in there, but he's there entirely to be a guy with a book for a head for one picture. There's no connective tissue to pull it all together and no point to any of it but to look 'evocative'.

Being gonzo or weird without just being aimless and hollow takes a lot of effort.

See also Numenara.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Night10194 posted:

Being gonzo or weird without just being aimless and hollow takes a lot of effort.

Relevant Tangent posted:

See also Numenara.

"Trying to Be Jack Vance" is itself a classic D&D dungeon littered with the dusty skeletons of those who tried and failed

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012



Hostile V posted:

Fightmare.

Scare-Knuckle Boxing.

Tae Kwan Boo.

Along with everything else said, I like that the highest-level power is basically Whirlwind Attack with a damage bonus.

Double Plus Undead
Dec 24, 2010


Halloween Jack posted:

"Trying to Be Jack Vance" is itself a classic D&D dungeon littered with the dusty skeletons of those who tried and failed

Which is weird considering how little dungeons feature in his work.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Boodo, Muay Frighten, Craven Maga, Hap-Scream-Do.

sammyv
Nov 8, 2010


Night10194 posted:

It's like comparing Dungeons the Dragonning to something like Feng Shui. Yeah, sure, Cooke put a guy with a book for a head in there, but he's there entirely to be a guy with a book for a head for one picture. There's no connective tissue to pull it all together and no point to any of it but to look 'evocative'.

Being gonzo or weird without just being aimless and hollow takes a lot of effort.

This is utterly tangential, but there was a Marvel comic called The Order a few years ago which was pretty good, but was loaded with writer Matt Fraction's meta-referential and self-aware tics. There's a panel early on where one of the characters punches a giant cyber-bear in the chops and says, "Seriously, y'all, I'm punching a bear in the face! What the hay is going on?"

Now, by no means am I against this kind of superhero silliness, but I want it given to me straight. I don't want characters to point out how absurd it is, because that comes with the stink of the author suggesting that they have noticed how absurd it is and need you to know they are above it somehow. Neither do I buy into the idea that some concepts are inherently 'awesome' or 'weird' or 'gonzo' to the degree that they can be used in infinite combinations and never lose their flavour. This mummy is a ninja, and all that guff. I mean, yes, a sentient cyber-bear is a shedload of fun, but no bear is an island. Your wacky ideas exist among a million competing others, and without some kind of inner life or connection to a wider world, at a certain point all you're giving me is bear after bear, book-head after book-head.

That was a lot of text to say I agree with you, and I'm apparently sick of bears.

megane
Jun 20, 2008





Hostile V posted:

Boodo, Muay Frighten, Craven Maga, Hap-Scream-Do.

Caposcarea

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?




it seems like any nightmare puncher bonuses would be offset by the stat penalties you would get from never getting any drat sleep

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



If sleep loss causes loss of reaction time and dulled reflexes like being nice and drunk, Nightmare Fist Technique is simply a more horrifying and more sober spin on Drunken Boxing.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Have any roleplaying games ever done Drunken Boxing without making it tedious and stupid?

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!




Coalition Wars 6: Final Siege, Part 5- "Always seem dark, sinister and dangerous."


"You humans certainly have developed a strange form of torture! I like it!"

Beasts of War

This is kind of a hodgepodge section supposedly themed around the notion of monsters that Tolkeen has summoned, as well as various battle howdahs and the like for them to wear. Really, it feels more like "Kent Burles drew some cool poo poo and we worked out what the hell it was later." Which is fair enough, but I wish the art was honored a little more. They fee like they tell distinct stories and not just the series of generic gun platforms we get.


"Look, just be confident, be bold... you look great!"

Basic Gargoyles get a reprint because they serve Tolkeen loyally. Apparently all it takes to win their loyalty is just the privilege of murdering humans. I'm not sure they need to be "given" that, but apparently, some now consider Minnesota their promised land. "Moose Mountain belongs to the winged now!"

Rifts Coalition Wars 6: Final Siege posted:

Those who do not fight to the death will consider Minnesota to be their "home." They will be back!

For revenge, no doubt. Rifts, the game where PCs have to start arranging a calendar out for returning villains. "Look, you're just going to have to go back to your home dimension and wait, this weekend is all just blocked out for ARCHIE-3..."


"Behold the power of earth, mortals!... and also missiles."

We get the EGM Missle Bunker (300 M.D.C.), a missile dispenser, the Weapon Throne (320 M.D.C.), which is a set of manned laser and rail gun turrets, both of which are designed to be carried around by a giant being of some sort. The Lightning Fortress (1000 M.D.C.) is a fort with "lightning throwers" designed to be wheeled around by a team of giant creatures. The Beast Tank (290 M.D.C.) is a howdah with lasers and mini-missiles to be carried by giant quadrapeds.


"Let me tell you about how jet fuel can never melt steel, Earthlings."

In addition, we get some new monsters. Chatterlings (170+ M.D.C.) are dragon-like trickster beings from another dimension. They get a variety of illusion spells and mental psionics. Though they were summoned to act as spies for Tolkeen, it turns out they're too self-serving and dishonest to be reliable, and they couldn't be easily sent back. While some have served the kingdom, chances are they're stealing or scheming on the side.


Nanananananabathiiiing!

Threno Bat-Things (217+ M.D.C.) were summoned as they supposedly know "some dark soul-twisting magic", but if they do, they're not sharing. Still, they found work with Tolkeen as generally awful sadistic demons. Bored of Witchlings and Black Faeries, two other hovering cruelty dispensers? Get yourself a Threno Bat-Thing! They have some telekinetic psionic powers and sharp hearing, but don't have much to distinguish them from other generically evil torture monsters.


One for Alliance, one for Horde.

Both the Wind-Water Sail Ray (210+ M.D.C.) and the Craaphery Demon Snake (225+ M.D.C.) serve similar roles as flying mounts, usually with Techno-Wizard platforms with sensors or weapons attached. The Sail Ray is gentle and generally used for scouting, as they detest conflict. The Demon Snake is an eeevil predator that is only really kept tame by giving opportunities for murder. One of these days, I'd like to see an eeevil herbivore: "only eats pine needles and lichen, but murders humans because it's a real rear end in a top hat."

The Unbidden refers to creatures that have come through to Tolkeen. Some were already in contact with Tolkeen's mages but never summoned for various reasons, while a few found their way through the rifts that open during the chaos by chance. We're told Minnesota Aftermath (later renamed Rifts Aftermath) will have more details on some of the creatures that slip through during the magical disasters. It will not. The term will show up later in a Rifts article as general term for accidentally summoned monsters but this notion will be generally forgotten. We also get notified that Tolkeen, for all its cooperation with demons and evil creatures, hasn't worked with Vampires due to their infectious nature. In case that was in doubt? Well, they are supposed to be Hubris Central.

Next: Masters of magic.

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




Halloween Jack posted:

Have any roleplaying games ever done Drunken Boxing without making it tedious and stupid?

Weapons of the Gods had an alright one

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



Alien Rope Burn posted:


"Behold the power of earth, mortals!... and also missiles."

Aw! It's like a charming Power Rangers villain! Possibly with a silly name based on ICBM.

LaSquida
Nov 1, 2012

Just keep on walkin'.


ZeroCount posted:

Weapons of the Gods had an alright one

Drunken Monkey was a pretty good defensive style; it also synergized with but didn't require a Silver breath hyperactivity from being a supernaturally huge drunkard, which was nice.

Ithle01
May 28, 2013


ZeroCount posted:

Weapons of the Gods had an alright one

Weapons of the Gods in general had a lot of good ideas. That and Legends of the Wulin. Unfortunately, the core dice mechanic, while cool in theory was actually a huge pain in the rear end. And LotW ripples were another cool idea that kind of fell flat because of the core dice mechanic. I've never read the WotG comics, so I have no bearing for how that game mapped onto them, but when it was just doing general kung-fu stuff it seemed like a cool game.

Unfortunately, despite reading the WotG core book like a dozen times I've never actually gotten to play or run a game (I did a game o LotW for about four sessions before we all quit). If I had some actual experience to relate stuff to I would love to do a read through of it, but coming from me it would be just my dumb-rear end uninformed opinion about what works or doesn't.

edit: just to give you an idea of what I mean about LotW ripples. I tried a test fight with my players against some fairly easy opposition and it went on for about three hours. By the end we were rolling about 30+ d10s looking for matches and the penalties when you acquired injuries just didn't seem that interesting.

Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 17, 2019

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




My understanding is that the comics involved the titular Weapons of the Gods way, way more, and had poo poo like the occasional offhand mention of something like "if you get really, really jacked you can jump up to Heaven and kick in the doors to register your complaints" actually happen frequently. Not that they were storming Heaven every five issues or anything, but the general power level was such that a starting PC in the game would be a nameless background mook in the comic.

Not that I've actually read the comics, this is just what I heard thirdhand so I may be wrong.

Ithle01
May 28, 2013


Zereth posted:

My understanding is that the comics involved the titular Weapons of the Gods way, way more, and had poo poo like the occasional offhand mention of something like "if you get really, really jacked you can jump up to Heaven and kick in the doors to register your complaints" actually happen frequently. Not that they were storming Heaven every five issues or anything, but the general power level was such that a starting PC in the game would be a nameless background mook in the comic.

Not that I've actually read the comics, this is just what I heard thirdhand so I may be wrong.

That was more or less my understanding too, the corebook has the titular weapons stated in the back and holy poo poo they are crazy, and this is why I thought the game worked best when it was just being presented as a regular kung-fu game with some occasional high powered NPCs lurking out there on top of mountains.

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

Ithle01 posted:

Weapons of the Gods in general had a lot of good ideas. That and Legends of the Wulin. Unfortunately, the core dice mechanic, while cool in theory was actually a huge pain in the rear end. And LotW ripples were another cool idea that kind of fell flat because of the core dice mechanic. I've never read the WotG comics, so I have no bearing for how that game mapped onto them, but when it was just doing general kung-fu stuff it seemed like a cool game.

Unfortunately, despite reading the WotG core book like a dozen times I've never actually gotten to play or run a game (I did a game o LotW for about four sessions before we all quit). If I had some actual experience to relate stuff to I would love to do a read through of it, but coming from me it would be just my dumb-rear end uninformed opinion about what works or doesn't.

edit: just to give you an idea of what I mean about LotW ripples. I tried a test fight with my players against some fairly easy opposition and it went on for about three hours. By the end we were rolling about 30+ d10s looking for matches and the penalties when you acquired injuries just didn't seem that interesting.

How in the gently caress did it take that long to take anyone out, what the hell. Like I have some serious questions as to what yall were doing that would make anything require double-digit numbers of d10s to end a fight.

Also I have a couple issues of the original WotG comic and it's super different from the game other than like, NPC and faction names and general wuxia stuff. At one point the main character is flying through a canyon shooting chi beams at giant bees, which is rad as gently caress but also not what the game does. I talked to Brad Elliott a bunch of years ago and asked him about it, and they pretty much just got the license included the stuff that made sense to include and then let Jenna Moran write a whole lot more.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Lynx Winters posted:

Also I have a couple issues of the original WotG comic and it's super different from the game other than like, NPC and faction names and general wuxia stuff. At one point the main character is flying through a canyon shooting chi beams at giant bees, which is rad as gently caress but also not what the game does.

I kinda want that game, though.

That Old Tree
Jun 23, 2012

nah




Zereth posted:

I kinda want that game, though.

It's quite possible with the base game, but only after your characters reach mastery or near-mastery of one or two kung fu styles. And you'd have to add the bees yourself.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!




Coalition Wars 6: Final Siege, Part 6- "This melancholy vagabond has given up adventuring, and chooses to wander through life as a disheveled and grubby hobo."

Tolkeen NPCs
By Kevin Siembieda & Bill Coffin


Yep, it's taken six books, but it's time to finally get the skinny on Tolkeen's top thaumaturges.


Heavy is the head that forgets to wear the crown.

King Robert Creed (10th level Ley Line Walker), leader of Tolkeen, is finally detailed. Despite earlier books waffling on his true nature, finally they settle into the notion of him being a fallen idealist. Appointed as king for his charm and talent, he eventually took a hard line against Coalition aggression, escalating the conflict gradually and becoming more embittered by the conflict. Willing to take any measure to defeat the Coalition, he was the one to put forth calling upon demons and other figures of "dark magic".

It turns out he's the one in possession of Poor Yorick, the "oracle skull" from Rifts Coalition Wars 1: Sedition, and used it to good effect, but apparently has grown weary of its predictions of doom for Tolkeen. And though it predicts a "swarming horde" from the North, apparently he presumed it meant the Xiticix rather than the Coalition, and never apparently positioned scouts up there. The whole "brilliant maneuver" of Holmes seems more and more forced the more words you read...

When Tolkeen falls under Siege, he tries desperately to find a winning solution, but eventually realizes that he's lost and undergoes a nervous breakdown. He tries to evacuate how he can, and gives a public proclamation that the battle is over and it's time to flee. Their demonic allies, disgusted, will generally flee rather than assist with the evacuation. Similarly, hardliners will attempt to leave Creed to die at the Coalition's hands. He helps open a rift and (1d6 x 1000) + 6000 people escape through it! How many escape? Let a random roll determine their fate!

Creed's fate is left open for GMs to interpret. If left to his own devices, he'll probably go down fighting. However, if he's knocked out, chances are he'll be rescued and become a guilt-ridden hermit, and may return as a far more humble leader figure in the future. And because this is Palladium and insanity is just a failed saving throw away, he may become so guilt-ridden and shocked as to suffer from amnesia. He calls himself "Erin Roberts" and believes himself to be a survivor of Tolkeen. However, Scard will recognize him no matter what happens in any sort of chance encounter, and attempt to kill him.

He has a litany of magic spells, artifacts, and unrollable attributes. It also has "King Creed knows all invocations, levels one through six..." and then... lists all invocations, levels one through six. Which is weird, but I guess it saves double-checking.

Then finally we get to the Circle of Twelve, the ruling council under the king.


Corin, Mied, Baarrtk, and Malik.

  • Warlord Corin Scard (11th Level Gunfighter) has been referenced as the primary baddie over and over, and it's only now that we get... anything on him, really. His family was murdered by the Coalition, and he became a notorious bandit and gunslinger. When he fended off a Coalition raid, the King had a personal encounter with him and decided to appoint him to the circle as a skilled Coalition-fighter. He turned out to be the most ruthless figure in the Tolkeen leadership, and only became more extreme as the war went on because... reasons, vengeance, something? Well, it's what it says on his character sheet, as he has a litany of madnesses like "Obsession: Revenge against the Coalition", "Obsession: Punish all traitors", "Mania", "Sadomasochism, hypre-aggression, and mass murder", and "Paranoia". Of course, we're reassured he'll survive the war, seek revenge on any terrible peacemongers associated with Tolkeen, and then go on a relentlessly evil-allied campaign of vengeance against the Coalition. Whew! I was almost worried we'd have a three-dimensional character here, but thankfully he instantly spirals into R-rated Skeletor territory.
  • Mied Elektis (12th Level Earth/Fire Warlock): The chief representative of the local Warlock Local Union 401, she's a 491 year old elf who was said to be an adventurer in her centuries of youth. After the war, she's likely to seek political asylum in Lazlo, where she helps refugee effords, helps forewarn them of Scard likely seeking revenge, and help a resistance effort to thwart the Coalition in Minnesota. She's said to be distastefully "manipulative" and has an Anarchist alignment but with no real examples of such- she seems pretty straightforwardly well-meaning if you look at her post-war actions.
  • Malik Savant (8th Level Techno-Wizard): A "boy genius" at 21 years of age, Mailk is the youngest member of the Circle. He's a optimist who believes that there's a Techno-Wizard solution for everything, and has been responsible for many of Tolkeen's innovations. He was always opposed to the war, though, feeling that victory was too improbable to consider. Though he fell in line in the hope he might make a difference, he remained opposed to the kingdoms' alliances with monsters and demons. In the fall of Tolkeen, he helps refugees escape (including somehow finding 3,000 unused Turbo-Wing boards to whip people away on, which feels like a hella stretch to have lying around). He's best buds with Baarrtk Krror, and though Rifts never would, I'd be willing to presume something more is going on there. I'll ship 'em.
  • Baarrtk Krror (16th Level Great Horned Dragon): One of the original Dragon Kings of Freehold, Baarrtk Krror (which is somehow pronounced "bear-rock crow") coped badly with life on Earth. Most of his time was spent as a drunk (what could actually get him drunk that's readily available?), lording over humans, and generally making a murderous rear end of himself. Getting into a fight with the top dragon of Atlantis, he was beaten and then tortured to the point he permanently lost an eye (something something bio-wizardry probably). He didn't fit in at Freehold, and settled down at Tolkeen as a professional grump. Despite having no hesitation in war, he was against it due to the risk to Tolkeen. His friendship in Malik has begun a redemption arc in him, and he protects the Techno-Wizard from murderjerks like Scard. If Malik survives, he'll probably become a better dragon thanks to his influence. If Malik dies, though, he'll just go on a murder spree through the Coalition until he's brought down.


Anya, Glorissa, Denwyn, and Rostigor.

  • Anya Svetska (8th Level Mystic Kuznya): A mystic smith from Russia, she was banished from Russia by the other smiths for unknown reasons. She traveled over the arctic to America, and settled in Tolkeen, become valued for her skills and tactical wisdom. Despite her ability to make magic items, she has only done so for choice warriors and not in general. Once Holmes destroys Tolkeen's defenses, she tries to assist with emergency services and saving civilians and eventually gets involved with assisting the Cyber-Knights in the evacuation. Warlord Scard is really pissed at her but he pretty much seems upset with anybody with an alignment above Miscreant. So it goes.
  • Glorissa Trenshire (8th Level Conjurer): Having worked independently as an anti-Coalition guerrilla, she was recruited by Creed to lead anti-Coalition commando units. Her group is known as the "Invisible Workshop", and prevented an early attempt by the Coalition to nuke Freehold (by sabotaging the nukes so they blew up their own base). She eventually tries to escape with her operatives. She's a hardliner that despises "doves" like Lazlo or the loyalist Cyber-Knights, and her attention will remain on undermining and battling the Coalition States.
  • Denwyn Ironheart (10th Level Ley Line Walker): A wizard who somehow transferred his soul into an iron golem, Denwyn became well-known as one of Tolkeen's premier warrior-mages. Brought into the Circle by the King, he brought his experience fighting the Coalition as well as a group of groupie warriors. He's seen as a big hero, but the truth is being trapped in a golem body has driven him insane, and he barely acknowledges others too much. His litany of Palladium-brand crazy includes "Obsession: Solitude", "Obsession: Secrecy", "Obsession: Destroy the Coalition", and "Delusion: Can not be destroyed". This raises two questions: one, how does he cope with being part of the circle and two, how is he still alive?. You'd think he'd have Leroy Jenkins'd himself into oblivion by now. In any case, if he does survive, he'll just be looking to start things up against the Coalition again however he can.
  • Rostigor Dur Grola (9th Level Battle Magus): A Gromek (dragon-ish-guys from back in Rifts Conversion Book), he was always obsessed with becoming a more badass ronin dick-swinger. Falling into a rift and landing on Earth, he left a trail of fallen challengers on his way to Tolkeen, seeking great warriors there, Creed was already waiting and offered him the chance to fight the greatest army on the planet: the Coalition Army. After "testing" a Coalition unit and barely surviving, he agreed and joined up. He's one of the main leaders of the Tolkeen air forces, and is likely to die against the Coalition while the Flight of the Valkyries plays. (How is he a Battle Magus? He's never even seen Dweomer, where they're taught...)


Salkind, Cervega, Kueda, and Maxim.

  • Salkind, the Metal Mage (8th Level Shifter): A shifter from Tolkeen, Salkind sought more power in other dimensions. However, he ran into the "Drolians", ancient Techno-Wizards that made him into a special wizardly cyborg that can cyber-cast spells. Destroying an entire force of Coalition force with genius tactics after his return, he was called in by Creed who did his now-usual "Oh, you're good at murdering skull guys? Have a government seat!" It turns out, though, he's a conduit for the Drolians who provide power and advice to him. Also, they're eeevil and have made him totally eeevil. They help him survive the war because they like watching streams of him killin' peoples. After the war he'll probably get guided by them to find a new conflict to get immersed him for those sweet extradimensional Twitch subscribes. I just made that sound cooler than it actually is; he's just an eeevil guy guided by other eeevil guys.
  • Cervega Klister (9th Level Mystic): With a half-mask that hides the left side of his face, Cervega is a mysterious mystic of mystical mysteries. It turns out he's a sinister creature from another dimension, and the magic mask hides his nature and alignment, and makes him super-charming. He wormed his way into the Tolkeen hierarchy and genuinely helps against the Coalition, but mostly just wanted a taste of power before the city falls. As Tolkeen falls, he takes the time to get revenge against anybody who crossed him, and likely try to steal some important artifact before fleeing. The masked part of his face is hideous, which- it's odd that he's not a Syvan from Rifts Conversion Book, given being duplicitous and half-ugly is their whole thing. In any case, he has one note to play and he sure as hell plays it to death.
  • Kueda the Grey (10th Level Grey Seer): The old experienced generic mentor guy, he's foreseen the upcoming war for years, but wanted to and change things. He's pretty bummed out by his failure to change the future, but copes pretty well. He helps other benevolent members of the Circle of Twelve, and likely just sticks around to help towards the end, figuring the Coalition might let him go. Apparently, they see Grey Seers harmless for the most part and he might just overwhelm them with generic nobility. You know, the kind of nobility that seemingly stood by as Creed took a moral dump all over Tolkeen. Either way, he'll go around being objectively wise at people afterwards.
  • Maxim Current (9th Level Water Warlock): A daredevil aquaman, he became a leader in Northern Minnesota by terrifying people with his perm and grumpy looks. And Creed was like "c'mon down!". He's very judgmental and rewards those who serve him well and squashes those who fail him. A hardliner, he was a cold hard guy who served dutifully in the Sorcerer's Revenge. Though he'll acquit himself well in the final battles, he'll eventually just try to punch through the Coalition lines with his men to make his escape. He doesn't have much personality, but he'll put what little character he has to fighting the Coalition another day. Very much a "eh, we ran out of ideas" last guy on the list. Also, boy, that name. Maxim Current, huh?
Well, a good number of the Circle of Twelve are pretty decent characters, and it's nice to leave Creed's fate up to individual campaigns. It's kind of weird to have it largely assume they all survive, but I suppose if you really want one dead, it's not hard to just scratch out their "siege notes" section. Scard is officially The Worst - he's boring, none of his characterization follows, and there's nothing interesting to do with him. He's not even that threatening, outside of who might follow him- gunfighting just isn't as impressive rules-wise as Siembieda thinks it is.

At least they also leave the council's fates open. Whether that's a good turn on Palladium's part or because they genuinely don't care about what happens to them is anyone's call. But it's a least a decent bone to throw to individual campaigns.

Next: The fightin' men of Tolkeen.

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jun 17, 2019

potatocubed
Jul 26, 2012

*rathian noises*


Lynx Winters posted:

How in the gently caress did it take that long to take anyone out, what the hell. Like I have some serious questions as to what yall were doing that would make anything require double-digit numbers of d10s to end a fight.

I had the same experience playing it. Against a handful of equally-competent enemies combat was about normal speed for a crunchy game, but against one powerful opponent it slowed to a crawl as he just picked up a gigantic stack of ripples that never resolved.

Like, I think the rippling system in LotW is great in theory, but in practice it's slow as hell.

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009


So what's the time between end of the war and 'Scard Was Right' shirts?

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




Man, Rifts really wants you to know how much obsessing with opposing the not-Nazis makes you evil and just as bad as they are


EDIT: Like, holy poo poo, Tolkeen just got obliterated as both a nation and a people. That's what was at stake the whole time. The pro-war 'hardliners' were absolutely right! How do you not realise this when you're the one writing it?

ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jun 17, 2019

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FBH991
Nov 26, 2010


ZeroCount posted:

Man, Rifts really wants you to know how much obsessing with opposing the not-Nazis makes you evil and just as bad as they are


EDIT: Like, holy poo poo, Tolkeen just got obliterated as both a nation and a people. That's what was at stake the whole time. The pro-war 'hardliners' were absolutely right! How do you not realise this when you're the one writing it?

No, you don't get it, according to Kevin, what Tolkeen should have done was abandon their city and flee off into the North West, abandoning their infrastructure and becoming a nation of refugees, hounded by both the coalition (who, being genocidal fascists with air transports seem unlikely to let them go) and by the various dangers of rifts earth, so that 20 years from now they can get killed again by the now far more unstoppable Coalition.

Obviously, this is a real alternative to war. Obviously.

Edit: It's especially hard not to despise people like Lazlo, who seem like they have at least the war-making potential of Tolkeen, who refuse to help out against the genocidal fascists kicking down Tolkeen's door even when the Coalition is super on the back foot, or give even token aid when the Coalition is about to move in and kill everyone.

I'd despise them too. "Sure is nice your principles are so important to you that you'll let the skull nazis murder all my friends and burn down my home."

Of course, in reality, the success of the sorcerer's revenge seems like it'd have caused the coalition to get swarmed by all its other enemies. Like, you'd think the Federation hardliners would be all abandoning Dunscon because of his failure to meaningfully fight the Coalition while Tolkeen was kicking the stuffing out of them.

FBH991 fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jun 17, 2019

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