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Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Also talking about how "RPGs are great and imaginative and isn't it good fun to pretend that the depression you feel is like part of some dark magical metaphysical reality," isn't Changeling: the Dreaming at the top of White Wolf's "psychiatrists are evil and want to lobotomize brainrape you into being a drooling conformist drone" charts? Because maybe when you're a teenager in high school and feeling generally lovely the way most teenagers in high school do that resonates on some level, but personally I find the pervasive vilification of therapy and psychiatric care as being some gruesome fate worse than death to be pretty loving stupid, short-sighted, and quite possibly harmful since I've known plenty of people who suffered from things like depression and PTSD who adamantly refused to go and get any sort of treatment because "those pills just turn you into a zombie." Meanwhile these days in the actual real world we have regular outbreaks of diseases that were formerly on the decline but are now experiencing resurgence because a bunch of B-list celebrities and self-appointed experts have convinced a whole lot of people that doctors are evil and want to infect their kids with the autism.

edit; before someone says anything no I'm not blaming the rise of antivaxxers on C:tD, simply using it as an example of why the whole "the real world is out to get youuuuuu" message doesn't exactly appeal when I can see exactly what that sort of thinking results in, and apparently it's kids with measles. No thanks.

Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Jun 7, 2016

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Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Count Chocula posted:

I've lost friends defending science!
Odd. How did that h-

quote:

In the real world, being great at words and art and symbolism makes you less than useless compared to knowing how math and physics and all that boring stuff work.
Hm yes I see.

As for the business with Changeling declaring scientists and doctors to be arch-banal, I agree that that was grody as hell, even if I don't think a research scientist would somehow necessarily be less banal than an average person. I would not be shocked if C20 presents a more balanced perspective on the matter, however, or at least recasts the issue ("clinically unstimulating environments are Banal even if the clinicians are merely ignorant.")

Roland Jones
Aug 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo


You know, on something of a tangent, I actually think one of the biggest disservices Beast does against its protagonists (I mean, besides... Everything) is that it tries to paint them as good and right. No other game line does that; Changelings still have the terrible things they can do presented as terrible things, while Prometheans don't have the damage their very existence can cause wiped away, and those are probably the two most sympathetic splats by default, with the former being thinly-veiled abuse victims trying to escape and rebuild their lives, while the latter are just cursed for existing at all. Hell, Demons are caught up in a war against the all-powerful embodiment of oppression and the status quo, and yet their book still doesn't pretend them doing things like tricking mortals out of their souls is at all justified, even when it's done for the cause of opposing the God-Machine, rather than just because you need a new Cover (or because you're an rear end in a top hat). Meanwhile the other lines, well, they vary, with the extreme to an almost hilarious degree of harshness being Vampire, and how it makes no pretensions towards its protagonists being anything but parasitic monsters whose best method of making the world a better place would probably be going outside and watching the sun rise.

The World of Darkness is a terrible place where you're probably playing either a broken person or a monster who may well be harmful by their very nature, and where fighting against that and being a good person is a struggle, and one that, with the semi-exception of Promethean, you probably won't be rewarded for. Which, really, is one of the reasons trying for that anyway is such an attractive option in it; people love that sort of stuff. (Edit: Promethean is a semi-exception because, while your final chances at becoming Human are based on Humanity, you can advance on your Pilgrimage just fine by being a monster, so long as you're learning what it means to be human in the process. Meanwhile, trying to be nice and not hurt people can easily bite you in the rear end and make things harder in a situation where getting to the end point already isn't a given. Still, it probably rewards decency the most, at least as far as I'm aware, compared to the other lines.)

Beast, though, deviates from this in a way that really isn't for the better. Every other game line is some form of, "you're a monster; how do you deal with your existence?" (Well, I hear Geist is pretty upbeat apparently; I don't know much about that one.) Beast, meanwhile, is, "you're a monster and that's loving awesome; go torture the people you don't like." It just doesn't fit at all, and that hurts it a lot. The authorial voice being blatantly biased in the favor of the Beasts, where every other line is straightforward and honest about the monstrosity of its characters and the occasional good they can do and how they can fight their natures and whatnot, doesn't help either. It practically revels in their terribleness. If Beast were written more like any other line, it'd... Still have the issues with things like direction and the mechanics being busted in some areas and whatnot, but it'd be better, at least. Even setting aside the abuse apologia, the book is just too positive about its monstrous protagonists.

If nothing else, a game about how kickass it is to be a monster who isn't beholden to anyone and can gently caress up people's lives on a whim isn't one that belongs in the CofD, because, dark as it is, that kind of poo poo generally doesn't fly in any of the games that aren't Beast and causes you Problems, rather than being expected and rewarded. Whether as a revenge fantasy game or just for the sake of being awful, that belongs in a different setting. (Edit: Wait there are rules for Slashers, I forgot about those. But those are at least honest about what the characters are still.)

Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Jun 7, 2016

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





I'd argue Wraith is an exception to the "now you're a monster" business too, but then most of the bullying wraiths do is to each other. Or to.. themselves.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN


Nessus posted:

Odd. How did that h-
Hm yes I see.

As for the business with Changeling declaring scientists and doctors to be arch-banal, I agree that that was grody as hell, even if I don't think a research scientist would somehow necessarily be less banal than an average person. I would not be shocked if C20 presents a more balanced perspective on the matter, however, or at least recasts the issue ("clinically unstimulating environments are Banal even if the clinicians are merely ignorant.")

It was for defending GMOs and vaccines. And many scientists and doctors are banal. Science and medicine hope to become banal - repeatable, normal, part of life. It's good banality- most banality is good when looked at objectively. The fact that TVs and microwaves and medicine and malls WORK is a great achievement. But that doesn't mean people can't have a problem with how they make them feel, and expressing that in a harmless game isn't a problem.

I do agree that the stigma against psychiatrist meds is terrible.

This is all just the old Apollonion vs Dioynisian/Romantic vs Enlightenment argues filtered through elfgames. But oMage and oChangeling do capture very real feelings people have. Maybe you subvert that. Maybe you're an architect who designs beautiful, magical malls or a doctor who encodes old runes in DNA molecules or something. A bit of Situationist detournment, like Unknown Armies does - it makes EVERYTHING magickal.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





The last few pages have brought back memories of the Knights of the Scarlet Woman thread. Good times.

That said Count you're a good poster, even if your opinions are sometimes baffling.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN


Thanks. I'm just operating under a different Paradigm.

WhitemageofDOOM
Sep 13, 2010

... It's magic. I ain't gotta explain shit.

Count Chocula posted:

This is all just the old Apollonion vs Dioynisian/Romantic vs Enlightenment argues filtered through elfgames. But oMage and oChangeling do capture very real feelings people have. Maybe you subvert that. Maybe you're an architect who designs beautiful, magical malls or a doctor who encodes old runes in DNA molecules or something. A bit of Situationist detournment, like Unknown Armies does - it makes EVERYTHING magickal.

Everything doesn't need to be magickal, because everything is already magical.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


I mean, I don't have personal experience with abuse. I'm from a happy family that is supportive and I thank God for that. But my father is a doctor and one of his side gigs is working as a prosecution expert witness on child abuse trials. This means I've heard a lot about what people will do to people weaker than them to 'teach them lessons'. Beast brings to mind those sorts of people and it makes me viscerally angry, because I know out there there are people who will poison their kids 'just a little' (and sometimes accidentally kill them that way) to 'learn them' and that's one of the loving example characters.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Cassa posted:

So delta prime puts nothing but Snuffer's in those iron-man suits, right?
Pfft, why would you waste a fellow Delta's life? Armorgeddon pilots are soldiers or actual pilots. Again, the suit can be rebuilt if it's destroyed, the pilot is expendable. The Gadgeteer who built the suit is hard to replace and Delta Prime, in general, is not a fan of gambling the lives of other Deltas because less Deltas means less power.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

The perfect Beast PC!

BinaryDoubts
Jun 6, 2013

Looking at it now, it really is disgusting. The flesh is transparent. From the start, I had no idea if it would even make a clapping sound. So I diligently reproduced everything about human hands, the bones, joints, and muscles, and then made them slap each other pretty hard.


potatocubed posted:

Power Addict (4 BP drawback) is pretty cool. Basically, you love one of your powers so much you use it for everything that might even be remotely applicable. (DC 20 D + E check to resist, as usual.) It's characterful, it causes both mechanical and fluff problems for you, but it's not overwhelmingly bad to the point where the character's unplayable.

This sounds potentially hilarious, depending on the power. Kinda like the superhero version of that guy who always uses his feet to pick things up for no good reason (I have no idea if this is a common human experience, but I've known multiple people like this).

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009


Hostile V posted:

Pfft, why would you waste a fellow Delta's life? Armorgeddon pilots are soldiers or actual pilots. Again, the suit can be rebuilt if it's destroyed, the pilot is expendable. The Gadgeteer who built the suit is hard to replace and Delta Prime, in general, is not a fan of gambling the lives of other Deltas because less Deltas means less power.

Well I mean, if I here to put anyone inside a walking tank, to use against super powered criminals, it'd be peoples who's ability is to stop those powers working.

But I do see your point.

Just Dan Again
Dec 16, 2012

Adventure!


The various Uratha tribes having their own favored prey differentiates them in a way that I don't remember being as clear in 1e. The Hunt being central to a werewolf's existence is a great way to make them both monstrous and understandable, underlying their other motivations by weaving that thread through everything they do. The way that each tribe's favored prey sets up conflict also helps to make the Pure stand out more as antagonists rather than just different factions. I really like that there is only one Forsaken tribe that has werewolves as their favorite prey, and everybody else thinks they're probably crazy. On the other hand ALL of the Pure include Forsaken as their sacred prey along with a bunch of other mystical mumbo jumbo about bloodlines and betrayal.

Planes of Chaos is like a trip down memory lane, spending summer vacation reading the Manual of the Planes and whatever setting supplements I could get my hands on... :allears:

I also enjoyed the Pathfinder Beginner Box review more than I thought I would. Seeing what approach a team of product designers took to introduce people to the hobby helps me think about how to do it myself, and it seems like whatever else can be said about their game Paizo did put a lot of effort into making the box both useful in itself and a gateway to deeper investment.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

If I didn't know better, I'd conclude that Beasts was anti-LGBT propaganda thinly disguised as a product marketed to that community but in fact shouting "THIS IS WHAT THE GAYS ACTUALLY BELIEVE". Sort of a Chronicles of the Elders of Zion in RPG form.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Cassa posted:

Well I mean, if I here to put anyone inside a walking tank, to use against super powered criminals, it'd be peoples who's ability is to stop those powers working.

But I do see your point.
Yeah, absolutely. Hell, that would be clever and a good way to throw off the PCs. Unfortunately that's not the case, that's the rationale the book's author and the book gives.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Werewolf: the Forsaken, 2nd Edition

The game presents five example idigam, and each of them is essentially an entire campaign to take on and defeat. First is Lu'im Iduth, the Deceiver Lune. It never appears the same way twice, an existence of light and shadow with shimmering tendrils that trail behind it, or a muscular form covered in moonlight. It can appear as any sort of Lune and is often mistaken for a real one. Its servants claim it is potent enough to have transcended phases and that it is one of the maslunim, or Hidden Lunes. At least, those that know the word. Even the idigam has forgotten its true appearance, an amorphous quicksilver form that changes shape and color constantly. Those that have studied ancient werewolf history may or may not have found references to it as a spirit of breaking and/or madness, found in the empty spaces of thought. The Deceiver Lune gathers followers and hides among them, keeping at least three werewolves with it at any time, all driven insane by its presence. It refuses to stay in one place long, toa void being hunted down and to add to its cult.

As is appropriate to an idigam, Deceiver Lune has both complex and yet simple plans for the cult. It believes that a werewolf's life is dangerous and hard - it'd be easier to just give in and take an offer of forgiveness. It can't be everywhere, so it will recruit mouthpieces to spread its message. Thus, it has recruited the Urdam, or Believer Wolves, who are Ghost Wolves that believe it to be a powerful Lune. It considers these servants valuable, using them to bring in new converts who aim to create a new tribe of Uratha with the Deceiver Lune as their 'totem.' It will then use this tribe to destabilize Uratha society and destroy it. Once that's done, it will drive its followers mad so they kill each other. It isn't really sure what it wants - it's not doing this because it has some kind of agenda, but because that is its nature and obsession. Or, perhaps, because it is so broken that it believes this will put it back together.

The Deceiver Lune was not one of the first idigam to return to Earth. It feared a trap by the Lunes and that the potential freedom was a lie. It held back and waited, watching every time the humans came and left, as a few idigam went with them each time. At last, in 1971, it concluded that the Lunes were not, in fact, going to do a drat thing, and it boarded Apollo 15 to get back to Earth. On Earth, it fled from splashdown and remained Formless for a long time. It hid in the darkness, but was eventually discovered by a Lune in the Himalayas. Panicking, it Coalesced around the Lune and absorbed it. As it gained the Lune's memories, it pieced together how the Uratha and Lunes interacted, for the most part. Then, it found a broken, insane werewolf in the foothills, more spirit than flesh, who was the last survivor of a pack war between the Uratha and the Pure, maddened cannibal who had retreated into Shadow to hunt for Essence. The Deceiver Lune saw a kindred spirit in this werewolf, and made him the first servant it took, giving it the name Ili Sugin'dah, the Penitent.

Deceiver Lune, unlike most idigam, goes out of its way to not leave a presence on the world. That is the job of its followers. The Ghost Wolves that believe in it do not understand what it truly is - they are devoted to it and its offer of 'forgiveness' from Luna. Most are tilted towards spirit, so it has a bodyguard in Shadow at all times. Primarily, the idigam uses its powers to taint Loci, making it so that when the Urdam take Essence, they become more faithful to it and are protected somewhat from silver. Despite its lack of raw physical power, Deceiver Lune has the dangerous ability to create Su'ur - that is, Empty Wolves. It only ever uses Lunes as the spirit half of these creatures, and they are inevitably driven insane, though the rest of the Urdam see these beings as a sort of holy order they hope to join. Otherwise, it only ever uses its ability of Essence Shaping to accomplish immediate goals, in order to avoid attention.

You might run into Deceiver Lune when the Urdam set up camp in your town, or when you hear rumors about them preaching Luna's forgiveness. Or maybe you hear about Lunes going missing, kidnapped by other werewolves. Fighting Lu'im Iduth isn't easy. It's not a warrior, but is extremely good at disorienting people and running away. When it does have to fight, it will fight hard and nasty, but the actual battle is the easy part. The problem is the Urdam - they're still the People, and most of them are merely deceived, but more than willing to kill to protect their spirit-leader. They're idealists, and if their 'god' dies, they'll try to get another Lune to serve as a new one, and likely won't believe it when the Lune tells them they were lied to. Besides hunting Lunes, they continually try to recruit other werewolves. Without Lu'im Iduth backing them, that'll be harder, but they can be quite eloquent and will remain a threat if they aren't somehow stopped.

Deceiver Lune, unlike most idigam, only wants werewolf serrvants. It ignores humans and Wolf-Blooded, even if they're part of a pack. Its servants currently follow willingly, believing it to be a Lune leading them to forgiveness. Most are normal werewolves, untainted by its touch, and while they are dangerously unbalanced, they are fully functional. Most of their leaders, however, are hollowed it and made into Empty Wolves, wom the Urdam know as the Devoted, or Zid Gissu - literally, loyal shadows. The Urdam are persuasive when dealing with Ghost Wolves who have no pack. They claim to follow Numun Sala, the Lune of Mercy, who offers the forgiveness of the Moon to those that follow. Their doctrine is simple - the Forsaken and Pure are wrong, spurning Luna. They align with the Firstborn or the spirits. Luna, however, can give forgiveness to any werewolf that seeks Her out properly, using a ritual they call the Purity of Moon's Heart. It's a sham, a bullshit ritual that never does anything and has its results entirely decided by the Deceiver Lune and its Empty Wolf servants. The 'tribe' remains small enough that no one has yet argued over this, and seniority is respected to the extent that abuse of authority is rampant. Only a few Empty Wolves exist, and they all follow the Penitent when Deceiver Lune is not actively around.

The Penitent himself claims to be date back to the year 1300 in Germany, but no werewolf has ever lived that long. Sometimes he claims he was a Pure forgiven by Luna, who returned his Auspice. The only common thread he's got is the Pure - he's fixated on them, perhaps due to his half-remembered history with them in the Himalayas. He is the last survivor, and in his more lucid moments he believes he killed his old pack himself. When he met the Deceiver Lune, it told him that he was the Lune of Mercy, and by promising him forgiveness, it has enslaved him. He is a true believer, but he can't tell his hallucinations from his memory any more. He is the only one of the Devoted that is not an Empty Wolf, but his years of service to the Deceiver Lune mean he might as well be.

Deceiver Lune itself is a rank 4 spirit, powerful but not unstoppable. Its ban is that must obey anyone carrying part of the actual Falcon landing module or an authentic Apollo 15 mission patch, so long as it is not asked to do anything suicidal or impossible. Its bane is sunlight, and it travels only by night.

Next time: The Endless

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

SirPhoebos posted:

If I didn't know better, I'd conclude that Beasts was anti-LGBT propaganda thinly disguised as a product marketed to that community but in fact shouting "THIS IS WHAT THE GAYS ACTUALLY BELIEVE". Sort of a Chronicles of the Elders of Zion in RPG form.
Like I said before, Beasts are like a DIE CIS SCUM parody of what Gamergaters think the robocops are really like, but played totally straight.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!


Halloween Jack posted:

Like I said before, Beasts are like a DIE CIS SCUM parody of what Gamergaters think the robocops are really like, but played totally straight.

What the heck is a robocop?

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 7, 2016

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Davin Valkri posted:

What's the heck is a robocop?

Site's word filter for Es Jay Double-u.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Best word filter.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Halloween Jack posted:

Like I said before, Beasts are like a DIE CIS SCUM parody of what Gamergaters think the robocops are really like, but played totally straight.

The fact that so many people are willing to buy into Beast as written does show that what is supposedly a demented parody still has some traction with people.

Thesaurasaurus
Feb 15, 2010

"Send in Boxbot!"



Bedlamdan posted:

The fact that so many people are willing to buy into Beast as written does show that what is supposedly a demented parody still has some traction with people.

Maybe that's what's missing from Beast as-written - a Natural Born Killers sort of reading of the incestuous relationship between Beasts and Heroes, like the whole thing is a sick reality TV show that has to keep on sinking to new depths of depravity to keep up its ratings.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Bedlamdan posted:

The fact that so many people are willing to buy into Beast as written does show that what is supposedly a demented parody still has some traction with people.

How many people actually buy into Beast though? Like, the DTRPG reviews as was pointed out are basically the equivalent of those Amazon reviews that read "A+ product for the service, very good of quality and would buy again" that you see spammed everywhere. Are there any Beast actual plays going on right now? Someone running a sweet Beast podcast so we can see what a game is actually like out in the wild? Obviously there are people who'll go to bat for anything and go digging through a comatose teenage girl's stat block to find evidence that she deserved to be "taught a lesson" if you know what I mean, but there's a difference between the sort of person who likes to argue that Star Wars' Empire is actually a noble force for stability and order and an actual fandom.

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

Kai Tave posted:

How many people actually buy into Beast though? Like, the DTRPG reviews as was pointed out are basically the equivalent of those Amazon reviews that read "A+ product for the service, very good of quality and would buy again" that you see spammed everywhere. Are there any Beast actual plays going on right now? Someone running a sweet Beast podcast so we can see what a game is actually like out in the wild? Obviously there are people who'll go to bat for anything and go digging through a comatose teenage girl's stat block to find evidence that she deserved to be "taught a lesson" if you know what I mean, but there's a difference between the sort of person who likes to argue that Star Wars' Empire is actually a noble force for stability and order and an actual fandom.

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759812-Beast-The-Primordial-Roots-in-the-Community

The only actual play I'm able to find is the one McFarland posted on RPG.net he did for his own group. Surprised red flags didn't already pop up when one of the characters describes "I'm going to a kid's soccer game and I look at the crowd. If I see any parents on the cell phone while the game is on, I'll know whose children to kidnap later."

Honestly, the AP is just so full of inane jargon that it gives me the impression McFarland's been writing for WW too long. His head is just so completely up his own rear end with terms from 6-7 different games that it's completely unintelligible to someone with even a passing interest in RPGs.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Werewolf: the Forsaken, 2nd Edition

The second sample idigam is Sag'suga Isim, the Endless or the Empty Hunger. The Endless prefers to hide in decaying areas, as they are comforting and familiar to it. It is not so much interested in death as the idea of material breakdown - rot, decay, entropy. Necrotic tissue, decaying buildings and ruined networks are all equally interesting to it. The Endless loves decay, both physical and metaphorical, and it likes to study these things. It prefers to avoid werewolves, who tend to tamper with its experiments and are naturally resistant to the degeneration that it is interested in. They heal, they live longer, they resist poison and disease, and they get in the way of the Endless' investigations of rot and destruction. It is far more interested in these experiments than any revenge, however, unlike most idigam. Occasionally, though, it does capture a werewolf and use them as a test subject for all kinds of decay, as they are quite durable. The Endless studies them occasionally to learn more about the limitations of their regenerative ability, sot hat one day it can find a way to nullify them and accelerate necrosis. Despiteh aving Coalesced in the darkness, it has no ties to the dark but instead to the ideas of entropy and decay. Eventually, all things will break, and it wants to understand that process. If it can find ways to sustain entropy indefinitely, it can turn everything into something like itself - an indefinite state of necrosis that it can control.

The Empty Hunger is an idigam that was never Moon-Banished. Rather, it hid deep in the earth and in the dark places of Shadow. It waited until Father Wolf died, then came forth. Or, rather, most of the Earth-Bound did. The Endless did not. It remained in the dark, studying how things broke down, and even took spirits apart to better understand the process of entropy. Despite all that, it never comprehended it. All it found was that it became emptier and emptier as it consumed. It Coalesced, trying to become entropy that it might understand. It built the first of its entropy elementals from other spirits, and emerged to find the modern world, with few Earth-Bound left. It never bothered to find out why. It's a quiet sort of idigam, unlikely to be noticed except by the effects of its actions. It can't really help but to break things near it, causing chaos and entropy. It takes human prey for preference - usually those with set schedules. It disrupts them, first subtly and then more and more, then strikes only when they are at their wits' end, consuming them for Essence or turning them into the Empty. This makes its activities easy to track...but only once it's already done them. Being proactive is much harder against the Endless. However, it always sticks around to observe its experiments and their results, which can prove useful if you survive the first fight.

Between its entropic nature and curiousness, the Empty Hunger cannot help but break things. Its careful in its study, but it changes the subjects entirely, wearing them down and rotting them away. It doesn't limit itself to physical things, either - it will happily decay relationships or intangibles, if it can, and it's a master manipulator, with an interest in anything orderly or resistant to decay. It doesn't act at random, however. Every choice it makes is deliberate, an experiment in some aspect of entropy. It wants to understand entropy, so that it can understand itself. Part of that is in observing entropy on others, and it doesn't ever wait for volunteers.

Noticing the Endless is the hard part. It leaves a trail of devastation, but it's a very subtle idigam. You might notice it as it destroys a community's order or sets about putting a normally more routine situation into utter chaos and devastation. The Endless is not infallible, and it can be lured into laces it cannot easily flee out of, with care. Another situation might be a pack showing up tracking the thing into your territory, regardless of who stands in the way, or the thing deciding to camp out on your lawn and destabilize your territory to see how you react. It will, in any case, avoid combat if possible - it'll straight up offer to leave and will give any reasonable concession, on the basis that it's immortal and you aren't. If that won't work, it will study the area for blackmail or to turn others against you. If that fails, it will finally fight, and in combat, it is a bitter foe, but it will run at the first chance it gets.

Primarily, servants of the Endless are spirits that it warps into entropy elementals. In Flesh, it will hollow out humans and use their bodies as servants - or, more rarely, animals. These, which are called the Empty, are used primarily to find other subjects to experiment on. All of its servants are both experiment and tool, as it studies the necrosis within them. It uses them as necessary for its plans, but prefers to rely on its own abilities when it needs something done right, hollowing out humans and turning them into heralds. Note that the entropy elementals aren't actually entropy spirits - they're spirits corrupted and warped by the idigam. The Empty, meanwhile, are literally empty - they are inflated bags of flesh surrounding necrotic energies, and when killed, they deflate, with no bone or muscle. They appear identical to humans, save that their eyes are replaced by empty, blank holes of blackness, they have no souls, they are immune to any mental domination because they're puppets being piloted by an idigam and they have no memories of their lives, though they retain any skills they had. They can communicate, but rarely do.

Sag'suga Isim itself is a rank 4 spirit, quite potent, but subtle in its powers. Its ban is that against a truly inspired creation, it cannot defend itself. It can't use its (considerable) Defense against attacks from those who are inspired to create or repair - doctors, construction workers, artists, chefs, performers, that kind of thing. Anyone with three dots and a specialty or four or more dots in Crafts, Expression or Medicine certainly counts, unless symbolically they destroy rather than creating, such as a demolitions expert. Its bane is any freshly-made handcrafted item - a sword fresh from the forge is fine, if it wasn't mass-produced, but so is a handmade wicker basket. The basket just won't last very long as a weapon.

Next time: The False Father

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


One should not White Wolf too greedily or too deep.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Night10194 posted:

One should not White Wolf too greedily or too deep.

If you stare at the White Wolf for too long, the White Wolf will stare back at you.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Kai Tave posted:

How many people actually buy into Beast though? Like, the DTRPG reviews as was pointed out are basically the equivalent of those Amazon reviews that read "A+ product for the service, very good of quality and would buy again" that you see spammed everywhere. Are there any Beast actual plays going on right now? Someone running a sweet Beast podcast so we can see what a game is actually like out in the wild? Obviously there are people who'll go to bat for anything and go digging through a comatose teenage girl's stat block to find evidence that she deserved to be "taught a lesson" if you know what I mean, but there's a difference between the sort of person who likes to argue that Star Wars' Empire is actually a noble force for stability and order and an actual fandom.
Beast's only useful function in the world is apparently diverting people to only stalk fictional teenage girls.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:


Night10194 posted:

One should not White Wolf too greedily or too deep.

Does this make me Frodo or Gandalf?

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

Does this make me Frodo or Gandalf?

Depends on whether Beast leaves you maimed and poisoned for the rest of your life or causes you to rise again as Kurieg the White.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:


"Fly you fools!"
"Well, actually, do you have the right to kill the Baelrog? I mean, who knows what kind of upbringing it had, it may have come from a broken home. Also isn't it technically Black?"

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Simian_Prime posted:

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759812-Beast-The-Primordial-Roots-in-the-Community

The only actual play I'm able to find is the one McFarland posted on RPG.net he did for his own group. Surprised red flags didn't already pop up when one of the characters describes "I'm going to a kid's soccer game and I look at the crowd. If I see any parents on the cell phone while the game is on, I'll know whose children to kidnap later."

Ignoring the "I kidnap kids for lulz", you don't know what's going on - parents could be arranging a ride (or a pizza party if it looks like the kids' team is winning), taking pictures, giving a play-by-play account to a relative who couldn't be there, or checking on a sick person, or it's job-related.

Someone being on a phone during a game isn't necessarily a sign of a bad parent ffs

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Robindaybird posted:

Someone being on a phone during a game isn't necessarily a sign of a bad parent ffs

It is in Badass Revenge Fantasy: The RPG.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Robindaybird posted:

Ignoring the "I kidnap kids for lulz", you don't know what's going on - parents could be arranging a ride (or a pizza party if it looks like the kids' team is winning), taking pictures, giving a play-by-play account to a relative who couldn't be there, or checking on a sick person, or it's job-related.

Someone being on a phone during a game isn't necessarily a sign of a bad parent ffs

It is when you have the maturity of a nerd, never had kids, and only know about children and raising a kid while managing your own life through bad dramas.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Kurieg posted:

Does this make me Frodo or Gandalf?

As long as you don't go full Turin.

Never go full Turin.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Simian_Prime posted:

The only actual play I'm able to find is the one McFarland posted on RPG.net he did for his own group. Surprised red flags didn't already pop up when one of the characters describes "I'm going to a kid's soccer game and I look at the crowd. If I see any parents on the cell phone while the game is on, I'll know whose children to kidnap later."
Meanwhile, another Beast is planning to punish all the parents for not noticing the other creepy single childless dude at the kids' soccer game.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

MonsieurChoc posted:

As long as you don't go full Turin.

Never go full Turin.

Instead, just go full Huan and beat up Sauron and an army of werewolves while being a dog

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Kaza42 posted:

Instead, just go full Huan and beat up Sauron and an army of werewolves while being a dog

Agreed: Forsaken is a better game. :smug:

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Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Kaza42 posted:

Instead, just go full Huan and beat up Sauron and an army of werewolves while being a dog

Or go the Sam route and become a Hunter.

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