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Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Doresh posted:

Though I can at least understand why they would hesitate, at least to a point. A more accurate hacker/decker/whatever wouldn't even have to be on the same continent as the rest of the party. He'd probably just interact with them through a rad drone.
Wait, that actually sounds kinda cool.

That is kind of why I've heard people suggest that deckers should just be relegated to an NPC or Contact instead. Because that'd avoid the thing of decking being a game within the game itself.

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Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Cooked Auto posted:

That is kind of why I've heard people suggest that deckers should just be relegated to an NPC or Contact instead. Because that'd avoid the thing of decking being a game within the game itself.

That's it: The drone is the player character. The decker is just the guy that does favors for you.

Nuns with Guns posted:

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a new tabletop RPG setting must implement new nouns for every tired concept.

I gotta write that down for later.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Yeah, that came to mind. Of course, yeah, as Mastermind mentioned, you may as well make them individuals unless you're somehow using them in mooks in a really high-powered game.

They can still be individuals and have an umbrella term referring to all of them. Like a pantheon of jerks.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


You just need to resist the urge to overcomplicate hacking. Ironically, this is actually what technomancers are good for, since their sprites can do things like jam a gun or kill an engine in just one roll.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

Doresh posted:

Though I can at least understand why they would hesitate, at least to a point. A more accurate hacker/decker/whatever wouldn't even have to be on the same continent as the rest of the party. He'd probably just interact with them through a rad drone.
Wait, that actually sounds kinda cool.

There were a couple of fluff examples like that way back in 1E and the tie-in novels, even. One was blind in the real world, another was a paraplegic, and neither of 'em were going anywhere near the site of a run.

Likewise, they mentioned that important buildings had riggers jacked in, manning the cameras and native drones.

You could basically jack in from anywhere with a satellite uplink, care of Virtual Realities, but it was expensive, slowed you down, and hacking into the satellite was a risk by itself.

Frankly though, the best rule they had in there turned a decking run into a handful of die rolls, with modifiers that benefited lean-running decks rather than the Alienware nightmares that the construction rules let you develop.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

Siivola posted:

Smashing!

Taido is, believe it or not, an actual thing. "Battle twirling" describes it quite well.

Just about to say this. It is loving amazing to watch a Taido bout.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

The one I couldn't believe was real was Moo Gi Gong, the "just pick up whatever and hit people with it" martial art. It's apparently a weapon sub form of Hwa Rang Do famous for having 108 weapon training techniques.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Doresh posted:

That's it: The drone is the player character. The decker is just the guy that does favors for you.

I probably would've just played a Rigger in that case. You can pretty much achieve the same thing there anyway.

Crasical
Apr 22, 2014

GG!*
*GET GOOD
Considering the amount of Shadowrun chatter, I'm not sure I need to be doing a F&F of the game...

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer

Crasical posted:

Considering the amount of Shadowrun chatter, I'm not sure I need to be doing a F&F of the game...

Nah, do it. Clearly there's interest in SR discussion.

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Crasical posted:

Considering the amount of Shadowrun chatter, I'm not sure I need to be doing a F&F of the game...
Please do, for those of us who want to read along with the discussion but know nothing of the game beyond "yes there are video games based on this."

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Speleothing posted:

On a completely different note, does anybody have the bit about a cyberpunk adware infecting a person's thoughts with penis enlargement and great deals? It was from a very early f&f or grogs.txt and I always think about it when people start talking about AR and cybernetics.
There's a bit in Transmetropolitan where Spider's dreams get infected with advertising. This is presented as a totally normal thing in the setting and why most people (who aren't poor) go around wearing "mood filters" in public.

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Please do, for those of us who want to read along with the discussion but know nothing of the game beyond "yes there are video games based on this."
It's pretty amazing that one tabletop RPG got adaptations for both the SNES and Sega Genesis.

theironjef posted:

Raven "Cool Swine" McCracken
: City of Violence.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Feb 5, 2017

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN
I played the demo of Watch Dogs 2, and that seemed to split the difference between remote and in person hacking. As long as you're in the same building, you can hack through security cameras/your 2 drone buddies, but most important things required you to physically hack them. Plus you've got a magic wand phone for doxxing randoms and stealing their cash.

Mr.Misfit
Jan 10, 2013

The time for
SkellyBones
has come!

Halloween Jack posted:

There's a bit in Transmetropolitan where Spider's dreams get infected with advertising. This is presented as a totally normal thing in the setting and why most people (who aren't poor) go around wearing "mood filters" in public.
[...]

Isn´t Transmetropolitan a vision of a dystopia as Shadowrun imagined at the end of the 90s would be instead of the 80s? Also by a better writer, clearly.

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009

Count Chocula posted:

I played the demo of Watch Dogs 2, and that seemed to split the difference between remote and in person hacking. As long as you're in the same building, you can hack through security cameras/your 2 drone buddies, but most important things required you to physically hack them. Plus you've got a magic wand phone for doxxing randoms and stealing their cash.

Yeah, or take a page out of Invisible Inc, the party has a 'hacker pool' which they can spend on hacking devices or disabling doors and such. Load it with different abilities to alter how the pool refreshes or takes down targets.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Mr.Misfit posted:

Isn´t Transmetropolitan a vision of a dystopia as Shadowrun imagined at the end of the 90s would be instead of the 80s? Also by a better writer, clearly.

Transmetropolitan isn't even a dystopia, really. It's gotten weirder, but politics are always dirty and the world gets a little weirder every year as it is. It's a comedic political conspiracy thriller, except it's in the future.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

By that time mankind will have mastered genetic engineering and humane micropigs will be all the rage. This is right before some kid in Milwaukee unleashes a super virus on the world that he accidentally created in his organic life replicator.


You could sponsor a pig at a no kill shelter farm too.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Yeah, mostly all a "mini" pig means is "about the weight of an adult human". Won't fit in your shopping bag for very long.

But yeah, there are a number of rescue organizations for pigs because of all the misconceptions around pet pigs, you could look into seeing if you could sponsor or the like if it ever comes to that.

JackMann posted:

There is an actual breed of pig that only gets 50-150 lbs (instead of 300-500 lbs), but yeah, you'll never get a pig that's going to stay small pet size.

senrath posted:

Well, yes, but those are called kunekune. Anyone who is selling a "micro" or "teacup" or "mini" pig is preying on ignorance.

JackMann posted:

Well, no. There are a few other breeds as well. The Gottingen, for example, averages around 80 lbs and is occasionally seen in the pet trade (though it's mostly sold to laboratories). There's also a variant of the Chinese pig in the US (EDIT: also mostly sold to laboratories) that averages around a hundred, and they're variously called mini or micro pigs. It's just that they're a lot less common in the pet trade than someone who wants to sell a regular piglet and claim it's a micro or mini pig (and then pretend they don't get over thirty pounds, which just ain't gonna happen with pigs).

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
So, a few months back, I talked about the Metabarons rpg and someone asked me to take pictures. Since I don't want to damage my books, I've taken lovely cellphone picture instead. I've got the corebook (in english) and the Universe book (in french). The pictures are from the second book, as I gather it's much harder to find. The universe book is insane in the best way. It starts with an introduction by Jodorowsky where he calls the game devs "mutants" who plundered the universe contained in his head or something. Then we learn that the emperors of mankind are the Trans-Bourbon dynasty, founded by Louis XVII of France. Louis XVII, who was smuggled out of prison by immortal alchemist Nostradamus, was an hermaphrodite immortal, took over after the 6th World War in the 28th Century and ruled for almost 10 000 years as Rosemonde the 1st.

It's great is what I'm saying.

























thatbastardken
Apr 23, 2010

A contract signed by a minor is not binding!
Ah yes, such famous historical noble houses as the Medicis, the Romanovs, Americans, and Women.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

thatbastardken posted:

Ah yes, such famous historical noble houses as the Medicis, the Romanovs, Americans, and Women.

Those are the Ante-Kenedi and the Retro-Windsors, I'll have you know.

It's completely insane I told you.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN

wiegieman posted:

Transmetropolitan isn't even a dystopia, really. It's gotten weirder, but politics are always dirty and the world gets a little weirder every year as it is. It's a comedic political conspiracy thriller, except it's in the future.

The one decent gag in Kevin Smith's 'Bluntman & Chronic' was just calling Transmet 'Fear & Loathing in a Quasi-Dystopian Future'. It's like Futurama - the future is WEIRD, not good or bad. I also recently heard the Pogues song its named after.

I asked for those Metabarons pics, and I'd got mixed up and thought it was all Moebius art. That art is a bit too generic, but 'not as good as Moebius' doesn't mean 'bad'. That gauntlet is amazing.

Cassa posted:

Yeah, or take a page out of Invisible Inc, the party has a 'hacker pool' which they can spend on hacking devices or disabling doors and such. Load it with different abilities to alter how the pool refreshes or takes down targets.

Yeah have the AI be an equivalent of those Werewolf group Totems. One player controls them, no body but they do hacking & intel, maybe a drone if you want a physical body to interact with.

Where's a good thread in Games to discuss which game has better hacking? I'm leaning towards Invisible Inc, since that's the focus of the game, but I haven't played much Watch Dogs. If Klei got the Shadowrun license I don't think anyone would complain.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

thatbastardken posted:

Ah yes, such famous historical noble houses as the Medicis, the Romanovs, Americans, and Women.

Looking at that, the American house is the Kennedys and the all-female portrait is of the Windsors, where the modern British royal family descends from. There's also a Hyper-Hapsburgs.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
Oh my god. Thank you for taking those photos, I can feel the batshit absurdity radiating off of them from here.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
For those who haven't seen it, Jodorowsky's Dune is a must-see and a good insight into the head of Metabaron/Incal creator Alejandro Jodorowsky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBUjGFMhuDg

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

Bieeardo posted:

Oh my god. Thank you for taking those photos, I can feel the batshit absurdity radiating off of them from here.

I'm almost thinking that the American House should be Bush-Kennedy, but I'm not sure when this RPG was published.

If it was today, it would probably be Bush-Kennedy-Trump.


MonsieurChoc posted:

For those who haven't seen it, Jodorowsky's Dune is a must-see and a good insight into the head of Metabaron/Incal creator Alejandro Jodorowsky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBUjGFMhuDg

Shorter version...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKjpH2qO8XY

JackMann
Aug 11, 2010

Secure. Contain. Protect.
Fallen Rib
Ah, once again we discuss the Rogue Problem.

Man, I need to update that more often.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

From left to right:

"Is she wearing a lamp on her head?"

"I'm wearing a lamp on my head!"

"I'm hoping my giant tie will distract people from the lamp on her head."

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN

MonsieurChoc posted:

For those who haven't seen it, Jodorowsky's Dune is a must-see and a good insight into the head of Metabaron/Incal creator Alejandro Jodorowsky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBUjGFMhuDg

Just drop acid and watch The Holy Mountain instead. Or maybe El Topo.
http://366weirdmovies.com/the-holy-mountain-1973/


Those photos don't seem 'absurd' to me, they appear to show normal-ish people. Which isn't what I want in my Jodorowsky sci-fi. I want high strangeness, pure Moebius-like weirdness, trippy 70s New Wave sci-fi ideas. That purple cityscape is a good start.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

Count Chocula posted:

Those photos don't seem 'absurd' to me, they appear to show normal-ish people. Which isn't what I want in my Jodorowsky sci-fi. I want high strangeness, pure Moebius-like weirdness, trippy 70s New Wave sci-fi ideas. That purple cityscape is a good start.

I don't know I about laughed when I saw Space America. But yeah, they needed someone who could draw like Moebius or at least Enki Bilal.

Tasoth
Dec 12, 2011
The thing to remember about The Incal and The Metabarons is Jodorowky's Dune script was the size of a phone book and he kept it. Those two stories (and probably the others linked to them) are him turning that script into completed media.

They also start out really strong and then just go weird with things slipping out of right field in the end portion. He works with good artists, though.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Robindaybird posted:

I found Shadowrun's tabletop rules to be way too unwieldy and there were massive issues like deckers having an almost different game running and the inevitable arguments over tone (Mirror Shades vs Pink Mohawk)
To clarify, if you're not a Shadowrun fan, I think what Robin's referring to is the conflict between "espionage thriller vs. Hong Kong action." This is a problem the game itself encouraged in the art (pictures of people carrying huge weapons through a street market like it ain't no thing) and in the equipment available to the PCs.

But in my experience, it was a cancer that really metastasized in the fan community. Shadowrun was the first game I posted a ton about online, on the old Dumpshock forums. There were people, there and in other places, who were all like "If you have to fire your gun, the run is hosed." Shadowrun grognards are pretty much the same as D&D grognards: like, if you want to play D&D as heroic fantasy and not as an exercise in paranoia where you poke everything with a 10' pole, you're a dumb idiot baby who didn't earn his fun. Shadowrun grognards loudly and proudly declare that the game is meant to be played like Sneakers in mirrorshades and nothing else, despite all the aforementioned heavy weapons.

rumble in the bunghole posted:

I have no idea what the appeal of shadowrun is. The setting is a mess of stuff that doesn't work together and everyone hates the system. Is cyberpunk 2020 that bad?
I think a good bit of it must have just been that Shadowrun had better advertising, and the Elves & Dwarves stuff was appealing. I got into Shadowrun through franchise novels I bought at Waldenbooks; there weren't any CP2020 novels with cool covers on the shelves. And I quickly found people to play with in high school. Once I was into Shadowrun, there wasn't much reason to get into CP2020.

Comparing the two, Shadowrun is more clearly mission-oriented, and that's a huge selling point. I'm not really sure what the classes in CP2020 are supposed to do together. It seems to require the GM to put in the same amount of work to put a campaign together as in a game like Vampire, whereas in Shadowrun you just put a team together and do espionage missions for cash, like in any dungeoncrawl-oriented game.

Crasical posted:

Relevant fact the first: I’m 27 years old. I was born in late 1989.
Relevant fact the second: I started playing shadowrun about 3 years ago (2014, for those of you who are math challenged).

...

Fourth Edition got rid of that, gave a huge emphasis on a wireless world, smartphone-like mini-computers (commlinks) along with pervasive Augmented Reality rising up to become an alternative to the ‘jack in and go floppy/limp’ Virtual Reality. Space travel was touched on as occurring in the setting periphery as well as nanotech manufacturing and new, experimental nanotech augmentation. It paints a world that I find as scarily plausible to things we will have fifty or sixty years down the line. There are certain folks (likely on this very forum, indeed) who think that the world update from 3e to 4e made the world ‘Not Shadowrun’, or ‘Not Cyberpunk’, and instead ‘Transhuman garbage’. Considering that the game’s fifth edition is a ‘Throwback Edition’ in a lot of ways (Think of how 5e DnD is in a lot of ways a throwback to 3e), apparently at least some of the developers agreed with them. I don’t agree. When I talk about how much I love Shadowrun, a lot of that is SPECIFICALLY fourth edition SR, and I want to make that really clear before I start.
As somebody born in 1983 who started playing SR with 2e, the only things I missed in the transition to 4e was the Pools system--and I totally get that they caused a lot of problems. SR4e was an overall improvement in both its basic rules and in the specific design of magic and deckers.

gourdcaptain posted:

I'd love it if Shadowrun could come up with a new kind of enemy that wasn't bug spirits/shedim/nanobots possessing you.
Shadowrun doesn't need any kind of all-threatening metaplot enemy at all, any more than James Bond movies need an alien invasion.

hyphz posted:

From my brief experience running 4e, it's because of Hollywood hacking. Anything can be hacked at will, you don't have to hope or wait for a security hole, and only hackers themselves have the money or skills to run decent security software.
Yeah, this is the problem with 4e hacking. The corebook does not do a good job of explaining what you can and can't hack, and how that can be prevented. And part of the reason fans freaked out about it is that some people were like "So a hacker can just hack my cyberarm and make me blow my brains out with a single roll?"

Nea
Feb 28, 2014

Funny Little Guy Aficionado.
I've heard shadowrun anarchy adressed a alot of these problems, is that true?

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Count Chocula posted:

watch The Holy Mountain
FINALLY you say something reasonable

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN

quote:

Shadowrun was the first game I posted a ton about online, on the old Dumpshock forums. There were people, there and in other places, who were all like "If you have to fire your gun, the run is hosed."

I dunno if the SR game is like that, but that's how you're meant to play Invisible Inc, and even though Watch Dogs 2 and Deus Ex let you go in guns blazing, I get the sense from the community that no-kill runs are encouraged, or at least some kind of ideal (especially in Deus Ex). So I can see playing a tabletop cyberpunk game with that mindset- but you gotta let the players know!

Also it always struck me as silly that the flagship cyberpunk game had D&D races in it, but as established my opinions are kinda dumb. My favorite cyberpunk setting in this thread is the CyberPapacy.

I LOVE The Incal. It's soooooooooooooooooo gorgeous. But that's Moebius' doing.

The Lore Bear
Jan 21, 2014

I don't know what to put here. Guys? GUYS?!

Neopie posted:

I've heard shadowrun anarchy adressed a alot of these problems, is that true?

Yes. Also, no.

If your problem is that you liked the general setting of urban fantasy-oid cyberpunk but wanted a narrative friendly ruleset that still used the basic ideas of Everything Is Piles of D6 and Let's Keep Gear Neat, then it's a nice, simple system. But the main way it did this is by completely ignoring most of the rules complications and bring everything down to simple skill tests with small bonuses and penalties for gear/no gear/using gear wrong/etc. It didn't improve on the Shadowrun rules so much as pull out a lot of the subsystems and nearly start over.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

thelazyblank posted:

Yes. Also, no.

If your problem is that you liked the general setting of urban fantasy-oid cyberpunk but wanted a narrative friendly ruleset that still used the basic ideas of Everything Is Piles of D6 and Let's Keep Gear Neat, then it's a nice, simple system. But the main way it did this is by completely ignoring most of the rules complications and bring everything down to simple skill tests with small bonuses and penalties for gear/no gear/using gear wrong/etc. It didn't improve on the Shadowrun rules so much as pull out a lot of the subsystems and nearly start over.

The narrative mechanics are basically the new vogue of cooperative storytelling, what with being able to spend tokens to take control of the story, and the person currently talking getting to also run NPCs and villains and what have you, but yeah, it doesn't appear to actually make for a fast game. You're still rolling a handful of D6s against a handful of D6s for everything.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Halloween Jack posted:

I think a good bit of it must have just been that Shadowrun had better advertising, and the Elves & Dwarves stuff was appealing. I got into Shadowrun through franchise novels I bought at Waldenbooks; there weren't any CP2020 novels with cool covers on the shelves. And I quickly found people to play with in high school. Once I was into Shadowrun, there wasn't much reason to get into CP2020.

Comparing the two, Shadowrun is more clearly mission-oriented, and that's a huge selling point. I'm not really sure what the classes in CP2020 are supposed to do together. It seems to require the GM to put in the same amount of work to put a campaign together as in a game like Vampire, whereas in Shadowrun you just put a team together and do espionage missions for cash, like in any dungeoncrawl-oriented game.

In general in CP2020 you're usually running around as troubleshooters, it's presumed, but it doesn't have a focused design, it's true. A lot of the roles lead themselves to specific setups - like, corporate, rockerboy, or media work as the center of a campaign, but not as much as a random element thrown in.

I never really dug the idea of having elves and dwarves thrown in - even at a young age, I was like "wouldn't it be more like our mythology?" But then, I was in two Shadowrun games for a single session each. In the first game, my character met up with another PC for a job, then ended up catching a driveby bullet aimed at that PC and was hospitalized. I didn't play in that game again. The second dropped me into a middle of a run they were doing and I never actually saw another PC, much less got involved in their mission. I just wandered around aimlessly for a session. I didn't play in that game again. CP2020 I joined a session and got on a mission doing work for the mafia as a solo in a campaign that lasted two years. This is probably a good chunk of what led me to being a CP2020 fan at the time. That, and even today not understanding the general appeal of "suddenly, dwarves!"

I really did like the short blurb in GURPS Fantasy for a fantasy / cyberpunk crossover that's really just magic-punk - you replace the corporations with powerful guilds, cybernetics are replaced with magical enhancements or getting monster or golem parts implanted, etc. That kind of thing feels a lot more natural than the bolts-still-showing nature of Shadowrun in my eyes.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN
There's an amazing Discworld book, Going Postal, that somehow does cyberpunk with semaphore towers.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
(Deleting. Missed the point.)

lifg fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Feb 6, 2017

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.
Well lifg, you were right insofar as the 80s-90s stock vision of cyberpunk was "We'll all be corporate drones in overcrowded sprawling megacities" when what we actually got is "we're all underemployed and most of us live in sprawling stupidly-planned suburbs."

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I never really dug the idea of having elves and dwarves thrown in - even at a young age, I was like "wouldn't it be more like our mythology?" But then, I was in two Shadowrun games for a single session each. In the first game, my character met up with another PC for a job, then ended up catching a driveby bullet aimed at that PC and was hospitalized. I didn't play in that game again. The second dropped me into a middle of a run they were doing and I never actually saw another PC, much less got involved in their mission. I just wandered around aimlessly for a session. I didn't play in that game again. CP2020 I joined a session and got on a mission doing work for the mafia as a solo in a campaign that lasted two years. This is probably a good chunk of what led me to being a CP2020 fan at the time. That, and even today not understanding the general appeal of "suddenly, dwarves!"
As dumb as the premise is, they did some interesting things with it, and AFAIK didn't try to hew too closely to Tolkienesque stereotypes. Like there's a secretive and exclusive elven ethno-state, but no equivalent for orks and trolls who often comprise an inner-city underclass.

From a purely gamey point of view, races and magic give you more player options and a separate axis to develop your character along. (And from a purely game design point of view, this creates more problems than it solves.) I always looked as CP2020 as being a little old-fashioned and clunky compared to Shadowrun, and I figured "Well I guess you'd just want to become a full-conversion borg as soon as you could afford it, that's max level." Looking back, I'm sure that's a dumb assumption to make, but there wasn't as much info on the Internet when I was a teenager.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 6, 2017

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U.T. Raptor
May 11, 2010

Are you a pack of imbeciles!?

Count Chocula posted:

I dunno if the SR game is like that
Sometimes. A lot of the missions in Dragonfall and Hong Kong have at least a little forced combat, but there's at least a few you can do without fighting anything if you play your cards right.

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