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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Kurieg posted:

I'll give you three guesses what happened during the lead-in to Fifth Edition and none of them count.

I knew there was a reason the Forgotten Realms wiki was ignoring 5th Edition.

Yeah, I can understand that sort of stuff being written in the 1980's-1990's, even being a sadly overlooked part of the setting in the 2000's, but not bringing it back after nuking it out of existence.

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Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Kavak posted:

I knew there was a reason the Forgotten Realms wiki was ignoring 5th Edition.

Uhhh, I have bad news.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sundering_%28event%29

quote:

The changes to the Forgotten Realms when 4th edition D&D were announced in 2006 were done without the consultation of Ed Greenwood or any of the main Realms authors. Despite entreaties not to go through with them, they happened anyway. Ed and R.A. Salvatore worked together to come up with a plan to fix the inevitable damage that these changes would cause. They came up with The Sundering

It's flagged with a giant [citation needed] tag but the 5e people have come home to roost.


Seriously Ao just invents a magic reset button and presses it and everything from 4e goes away except for Dragonborn and Tieflings because they're okay I guess sufficiently 80's for Ed Greenwood.

Kurieg fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Feb 7, 2016

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


Rand Brittain posted:

Honestly, my main impression from reading old Realms stuff is that they pretty much just paid Greenwood to publish his campaign notes, because there's a whole lot of pointless stuff in the old books. Like, Cult of the Dragon has full stats for Sammaster at four different points of his life.

My favorite bizarre thing is the Magister. Let me tell you a story!

Once, Mystra decided that knowledge of magic was in danger. Somebody might murder all the wizards, or blow up the world, and everybody's knowledge of the Art would be lost. How terrible!

So, she decided to name a very special wizard as the Magister. The Magister would be in charge of teaching the Art and safeguarding the knowledge of magic for everyone. She'd get all kinds of special powers, and when she died, Mystra would choose a new Magister. Or, if you killed the Magister, you'd become the new Magister!

Tell me, children, can you pick out the sentence where this turned into a terrible, awful idea?

Anyway, the book is filled to the brim with the history of Magisters who lived miserable, hunted lives*, hiding from the wizards determined to kill them and take their office. At no point does it ever show any awareness of how completely Mystra hosed up this whole business or how messed-up it all is.

*including one spectacular tavern brawl where twelve new Magisters were appointed in one night, causing Mystra to change the rules--so that the Magister got plot armor for six hours.

What edition was this and what book did it come from? Because I want to read this madness and do my own :eyepop:

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Kurieg posted:

Uhhh, I have bad news.

Eh, I guess that's just the impression I got from there being so little stuff from 5th Edition in most articles. Maybe it's just selection bias?

Though it's hilarious that's how he decided to retcon things. Thankfully none of his god-NPCs age so the timeskip is meaningless to them!

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Kavak posted:

Eh, I guess that's just the impression I got from there being so little stuff from 5th Edition in most articles. Maybe it's just selection bias?

Though it's hilarious that's how he decided to retcon things. Thankfully none of his god-NPCs age so the timeskip is meaningless to them!

There's so much poo poo in the forgotten realms that I'm sure not all of the articles got updated. Also all of this is contained entirely in the novels. Even the SCAG doesn't actually touch on what happened in between the Neverwinter Players Guide and 5e.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
And there's Chessenta, where wizards were hunted and burned on pyres made of something called 'witchweed', the smoke of which screwed with spellcasting.

Then again, I can't really blame them, being so close to Thay and all.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Kurieg posted:

There's so much poo poo in the forgotten realms that I'm sure not all of the articles got updated. Also all of this is contained entirely in the novels. Even the SCAG doesn't actually touch on what happened in between the Neverwinter Players Guide and 5e.

The wiki is still being updated rapidly. I think it's the novels, nobody sane reads those, even people who like Greenwood.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Bieeardo posted:

And there's Chessenta, where wizards were hunted and burned on pyres made of something called 'witchweed', the smoke of which screwed with spellcasting.

Then again, I can't really blame them, being so close to Thay and all.

This is usually a prudent course of action in every single D&D setting, though.

Wizards are just one step behind those drat gods in terms of troublemaking.

Fossilized Rappy
Dec 26, 2012

Young Freud posted:

BTW, how does the Banestorm look on the other end? Is it just dudes putzing around and just vanishing in clear day or a major atmospheric event and people disappearing?
One of the short fiction pieces that start each chapter describes it as going through a really rough storm, and then when the storm is over and you are on Yrth you realize everything is wrong. The temperature feels different, the wind isn't right, you can't tell where you are, and it's all very disconcerting.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

NachtSieger posted:

What edition was this and what book did it come from? Because I want to read this madness and do my own :eyepop:

The book is called "Secrets of the Magister," is from 2e, and is not to be confused with "The Magister," which is about something totally different.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Rand Brittain posted:

The book is called "Secrets of the Magister," is from 2e, and is not to be confused with "The Magister," which is about something totally different.

Isn't that the one where the Elminster fucks all of Mystra's clergy, then is turned into a woman and fucks them all again because only lesbian sex can teach you the true meaning of magic?

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Zereth posted:

They made a D&D arcade game set in Sigil? :monocle: Link please.

Nah, I misread, I'm very tried. Tired. Something.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN

Ratoslov posted:

Litheroy seems like the nicest Superior to deal with. Eli's a close second, but he's, y'know, insane even by Superior standards. Yves is niceish, but he's also cryptic, which I have mentioned I have a intense dislike of.

While I think the whole story of the time Andre banged Roy is cute, I do gotta wonder what circumstances it could possibly have occured in, given Litheroy's stated 'SMASH DEMON FACES' stance.

EDIT: Oh, something I've been meaning to ask: Is Litheroy made up 100% of whole cloth, or is there a historical/angelological origin for the name?

Really? He sounds like the most annoying Superior, even more than Kobal. Like a set-up for constant Data/Sheldon from Big Bang Theory scenes of him taking things literally or explaining everything at length. He's a Wikisperg. He's the ultimate pedant. He sealions (harasses with questions) all over the place.

I find Yves, Gabriel and Eli the only tolerable Archangels. Where is it stated that Eli is 'insane'? At worst he seems too much like a hippie.

I want to know more about Novalis. And Game, since he seems so powerful in Hell.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.



Your problem with exterminating all the wizards is that you're just asking for a necro-lord to come out of the wastelands with a skeleton army and institute a skullocracy. Then again perhaps that's for the best.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

Rand Brittain posted:

The book is called "Secrets of the Magister," is from 2e, and is not to be confused with "The Magister," which is about something totally different.

The Magister, easily mistaken for an adventure module at a glance, being one in a long line of books compiled from Greenwood's 'conversations' with Elminster and containing stats for a hojillion unique magic items and grimoires.

It was a pretty nifty little booklet, even if it had a terrible title. Introduced me to the concept of the traveling spellbook, for when you don't want to risk your whole goddamned library on a murderhobo spree.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN

wiegieman posted:

You become the embodiment of eternal hunger and consume several gods until you get bored and leave for greener pastures. It's pretty metal.

In Nomine should have an Haaganti ending like this.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Nessus posted:

Your problem with exterminating all the wizards is that you're just asking for a necro-lord to come out of the wastelands with a skeleton army and institute a skullocracy. Then again perhaps that's for the best.

Skullocracy is rule by whoever has the most skull(s), right? Sounds like a good form of government for murderhobos.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Nah, I misread, I'm very tried. Tired. Something.

Planescape the sidescroller would be loving awesome, though.

Also the Mystara games are on sale on Steam right now: http://store.steampowered.com/app/229480/

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013



Kurieg posted:

The way it works is basically AO is a true neutral rear end in a top hat who understands that Mortals need to exist, but can't fathom a reason to actually care about them. So he can't fathom why the lesser gods would care either, so he created a system where they have to care. The gods are powered by belief, and without belief they wither and die. And to ensure that the mortals would believe, he created the wall of he faithless. Where those who refused to believe would be punished for all eternity. The time of Troubles was AO enforcing the status quo.
The weird this is that Ao didn't make the wall in the first place. Myrkul made it as a way to get power, and to high light why it's a bad idea for an evil dude to be in charge of the realm of the dead. When Jergal was god of the dead unclaimed shades just sort puttered around everywhere, and because Jergal is basically just cheerful old man he left them alone. So Ao observed someone else create the most evil of all possible things and think it was such a good idea he needed to preserve it.

Kavak posted:

Once Ed Greenwood dies, the first thing they should do is permanently kill that rear end in a top hat off or (My personal canon) have someone finally nail him to the wall for one of his countless sex crimes and lock him in Spellhold forever.
Spellhold is from Eberron a much better setting.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Terrible Opinions posted:

The weird this is that Ao didn't make the wall in the first place. Myrkul made it as a way to get power, and to high light why it's a bad idea for an evil dude to be in charge of the realm of the dead. When Jergal was god of the dead unclaimed shades just sort puttered around everywhere, and because Jergal is basically just cheerful old man he left them alone. So Ao observed someone else create the most evil of all possible things and think it was such a good idea he needed to preserve it.

Sounds more like someone forgot that setting detail or didn't know about it and it shifted over time.

quote:

Spellhold is from Eberron a much better setting.

There's two.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015
Bloody hell, Forgotten Realms is a lot more messed up than I imagined o_O

"How dare the IP owners change the setting without my consent! Now I will undo everything. Elminster and Drizzt will never change!"

Kavak posted:

Also the Mystara games are on sale on Steam right now: http://store.steampowered.com/app/229480/

Money well spend. Just make sure to deactivate the filter that's on by default. Makes everything look like it's covered in vaseline.

Also all the unlockable artwork is art from the 3.X books instead of concept art. That's... odd?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


I doubt there's much in the way of concept art for a side-scrolling arcade game, though I wish they'd picked art from 2nd Edition when the games came out.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Kavak posted:

I doubt there's much in the way of concept art for a side-scrolling arcade game, though I wish they'd picked art from 2nd Edition when the games came out.



These games are actually based on either Basic D&D or the Rules Cyclopedia AFAIK. Still, more "peroid appropriate" art would've been nicer.

And there probably is concept art around. You can't just make a pixel spritesheet without having a more or less clear idea of what the character's supposed to look. All the port offers are some promotional pictures from the US and Japan.

Then again unlocking stuff isn't really what an arcade game is about, is it? It's all about beating stuff up and trying to make sense out of the digitized voices (I swear the Elf shouts "My mother!" or something when she's KOed.)

Oh, and is it normal for old D&D do have so drat durable scorpions? These little buggers take about as many axes to the head as gnolls.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Feb 7, 2016

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Gnolls aren't supposed to be that tough either, so I don't think so. Probably just picked it because it looked tough.

Also I just remembered that the Drow, pre-transformation*, were called the "Dark Elves" and had brown skin and dark hair. So...yeah.

*Seriously, what kind of "good" god curses an entire people and all their offspring for their sins? At least when that happened in The Elder Scrolls to the Dunmer the setting doesn't portray Azura as pure good.

Kavak fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Feb 7, 2016

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Kavak posted:

Also I just remembered that the Drow, pre-transformation*, were called the "Dark Elves" and had brown skin and dark hair. So...yeah.

*Seriously, what kind of "good" god curses an entire people and all their offspring for their sins? At least when that happened in The Elder Scrolls to the Dunmer the setting doesn't portray Azura as pure good.

Did they use to live underground before this curse? I'm certainly confused how elves could spend their entire lifes without ever seeing the sun without ending up looking like freaky, near-blind albinos. Then again, magic.

Maybe all the good gods used to be "good" in the same way as Old Testament God? Then again, that would actually imply that the setting (or rather the gods) can change.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Doresh posted:

Did they use to live underground before this curse? I'm certainly confused how elves could spend their entire lifes without ever seeing the sun without ending up looking like freaky, near-blind albinos. Then again, magic.

The wiki isn't really clear on when they turned into the Drow or how (Cursed? Worshipping evil gods? Interbreeding with demons?), but Corellon definitely ordered them underground. The Drow are his fault.

quote:

Maybe all the good gods used to be "good" in the same way as Old Testament God? Then again, that would actually imply that the setting (or rather the gods) can change.

I think the problem is just elves. Elves are second only to wizards in massive gently caress-ups, and they often overlap.

Jarvisi
Apr 17, 2001

Green is still best.
So wait, how the gently caress are Bhaal and Myrkul back? How are there two gods of the dead? I never questioned it before but this makes absolutely no sense in any way possible.

Edit: Wait, Mask is back too?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Doresh posted:

Did they use to live underground before this curse? I'm certainly confused how elves could spend their entire lifes without ever seeing the sun without ending up looking like freaky, near-blind albinos. Then again, magic.

Maybe all the good gods used to be "good" in the same way as Old Testament God? Then again, that would actually imply that the setting (or rather the gods) can change.

The Drow are basically a D&D version of the Curse of Ham, an old (racist as gently caress) idea that slavery was justified because dark-skinned people were the descendants of Ham, who Noah cursed for being nearby when he woke up from a bender naked. He cursed him to always be the servant to his other brothers, though the actual biblical story doesn't mention dark skin at all. The dark skin thing got added on as apocrypha by future generations.

It's really loving shameful, especially with that Epic Destiny of 'be reborn a good white elf' thing they gave drow later.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Night10194 posted:

It's really loving shameful, especially with that Epic Destiny of 'be reborn a good white elf' thing they gave drow later.

Doesn't Pathfinder's Golarion or some other setting feature the possibility of a normal elf becoming a drow? That's right kids, if you're evil, you will turn black!

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Doresh posted:

Doesn't Pathfinder's Golarion or some other setting feature the possibility of a normal elf becoming a drow? That's right kids, if you're evil, you will turn black!

Yup, and it's a dark secret that the all powerful shadowy council of elf wizards works hard to hide from the outside world.

Golarion is composed of equal parts "Hey that's kind of neat" and "Oh god why would you do this!?"

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015
Double Cross - Infinity Code


Scenarios

Infinity Code comes with two example Scenarios, only one of which makes use of the new stuff from this book. Also included again are a couple Scenario Starters aka Scenario ideas, but these are a lot more elaborate this time around, with each one including a Progressive Check and enemy writeups.

Venomous Hate

I think my hair is on fire.

The big bad of this FH Agent Iwao "Grim Reaper" Sagae (Balor), a hardcore misanthrope whose ultimate desire in life is to kill everyone after getting hit with a case of the Gjaum. He's currently holed up in an abandoned FH lab to develop his own version of the Infinity Code. This one doesn't actually have anything to do with Renegade evolution, but is just called that way because he's using the Infinity Initiative's Ouroboros know-how to build himself a WMD.

As it's typical for these Scenarios, the PCs enter the scene with all kinds of objectives and motives: Two want to take down Iwao for good (dude ain't called "Grim Reaper" for nothing), one is tasked to find out what happened to UGN Agent Eiji Takasu (Neumann/Morpheus, the messed-up guy on th picture) who went MIA when he investigated the lab, one is a Renegade Being tasked with Xenos to stop Iwao's Ouroboros shenanigans, and PC1 is an Ouroboros Overed himself who got kindapped and is now waking up inside the lab.

Inside the lab, PC1 meets the adorable Renegade Being Infinity Code (*dun dun duuun*), though she calls herself Renee (Ouroboros/Solaris) because that's cuter.

Renee posted:

"Renee's short for Renegade. Because I'm a Renegade Being. Renegade, Renee. Get it?"
My next DX character will be called Ovee.

Unfortunately for everyone, Iwao's not alone in the lab and brought a couple Gjaum friends with them, and they're busy hunting after Renee and PC1.

(Though according to RAW, PC1 could just mob the floor with all of them because they Scenario specifically mentions they're Extras aka a PC can defeat them by saying so. Plot convenience!)

The PCs eventually meet up with Renee and PC1 and gang up on the Gjaums, but not before one of them manages to sneak up on Renee. It doesn't go very far as it suddenly starts screaming and dropping dead on the ground. Renee herself doesn't quite know what's going on as she doesn't actually know how to control her powers (*dun dun DUUUUN*).

When Iwao makes his entrance via a wall monitor, he tells everyone how he needs Renee and PC1 for his human extermination plan, and he uses his hack Enemy Powers to separate the lab from the outside world, trapping them until they give up or die.

After some investigating, they find the half-dead Eiji and can even safe him if they manage to patch him up. In any case, he spouts exposition about how Renee's main Power is some kind of super poison/acid that can kill just about anything. Renee herself however is perfectly harmless and doesn't want to hurt anyone.

For Evil-aligned PCs, the Scenario does mention they can basically kill Renee and skip most of the remaining Scenario. But could you really kill this:

quote:

“PC1, will you be my friend?”

(PC1 says yes) “Yes! Thank you! Wow, I have a friend…”
(Begins to roll around on the floor)

(PC1 says no) “Ah, come on! I’m just going to keep on
asking. Please? Please please? Please please please please
please please?” (Begins climbing onto PC1’s back
Awwwwww :gerty:

Unfortunately for less dickish players, Renee suddenly starts losing control and going all Tetsuo (if you replace "gross biomechanic mess" with "poison everywhere") and gets spirited away by Iwao, who is now planning to reconnect the lab with the world and flood it with the poison.

Further exposition explains that Renee is basically a designer Renegade Being that Iwao fed with just the right Powers and strains for the super poison (which is even a selective poison, which probably means he's not targeted by the poison). Unfortunately for him, Renee's own Ouroboros strain that holds everything together is very weak (not to mention that she dared develop a free will), so he had PC1 kidnapped, hoping that she would absorb enough from his Ouroboros strain for the whole poison production to finally get started.

Before everyone can go beat up Iwao, they have to enter a Progressive Check whose goal is it to get PC1 to the poison-spewing Renee in order to have him destabilize her Ouroboros strain again. Failure to do so will get everyone eaten by super death poison.

If everything ends well, Renee will end up in UGN custody, where visting rights for PC1 probably look a bit grim because getting her too close to another Ouroboros Overed is a very, very bad idea.

Angry Impulses

That's an oddly sinister look.

This is a somewhat odd one. It's about the FH Agent Orie "Reproductor" Higusa (Solaris/Neumann/Morpheus), a Gjaum passing off as a school counselor in order to brainwash students during tutoring class and having them go berserk. She takes a special interest in Shizune Yagusa, a classmate of PC1. Naturally, the goal is to rescue Shizune (and hopefully everyone else). Certainly tamer and less insane than most other Scenarios.

This Scenario also probably has the weakest bad guy so far. She doesn't have any end goal and is just trolling people for the evulz. I guess this makes sense as she's a Gjaum, but other villains before her stole missiles, tried to destroy the world or turned into skeleton pirates.

Though there's one cool bit she does: At one point she uses the Neumann Simple Power that turns you into Sherlock Holmes in order to profile the PCs and record a video that seemingly responds to all of their reactions. A shame none of her other actions scream "mastermind villain".

Scenario Starters

These are lots of fun. So on with it:

  • Shadow Island: Rival teams from UGN, FH and False Hearts have to work together when they figure out that the Ouroboros EX Renegade they're fighting over on a remote island is the island itself, and its out to get them. Imagine if The Thing absorbed an entire island.
  • Saying Goodbye: An Ouroboros Renegade Being breaks free from a FH lab and starts roaming City N in the form of dead people because as an immortal being itself, it's a bit obsessed with death.
  • Rodent Pandemic: Turns out the Renegade can infect computer viruses and have them hack people.
  • Jester's Crown: A FH assassin who dresses up as a clown wrecks havoc because he also happens to be able to turn everyone else into killer clowns. Its like having Pennywise everywhere.
  • Man Hunt: The PCs are looking for an Overed whose Powers cause her to subconsciously kill people. Or is it really her killing everyone?
  • Halation Ghost: It's paranormal activity time at school (mainly Poltergeist and haunted mansion type stuff, no creepy ghost kids or body horror). Turns out it's caused by the Gjaum-ified remains of a frail school girl who died during her first day at school after being so happy to finally get out and make friends :smith:.
  • Run Lola Run: The PCs have a race against time with a bike-obsessed FH Agent in order to find the precognitive Lola. Man, reading about refrences to a German movie from the 90s makes me want to turn the Killer Condom into an EX Renegade.
  • Giant Killer: A daikaiju-sized Gjaum starts rampaging the countryside, and its up to the PCs to climb on its back beat up its individual body parts as if they're fighting Sin from FFX. A shame the vehicle section doesn't include flying submarines with drills.

Soo, that's it so far in terms of English DX releases, which are relatively complete as far as the core setting itself goes. The missing stuff (AFAIK) boils down to a UGN-centric supplement, a couple Scenario books (including at least one campaign / Adventure Path) and around a dozen alternative settings, including a .hack clone, a Weird War setting, a tokusatsu/superhero setting and a post-apocalyptic alternate universe in which a tiny population of Overeds have to survive on a whole planet full of Gjaums.
Oh and one set in Akihabara. Just, Akihabara. Maid cafes and model kits galore.

I'll take a short break for now and will return in a week or so to tackle Silent Legions, Keving Crawford's OSR game of Lovecraftian horror where you are encouraged to replace the Lovecraftian stuff for your own mythos. I will of course follow up from my threat a couple pages ago and reflavor Winnie the Pooh as an Eldritch horror.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 7, 2016

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Count Chocula posted:

Really? He sounds like the most annoying Superior, even more than Kobal. Like a set-up for constant Data/Sheldon from Big Bang Theory scenes of him taking things literally or explaining everything at length. He's a Wikisperg. He's the ultimate pedant. He sealions (harasses with questions) all over the place.

I find Yves, Gabriel and Eli the only tolerable Archangels. Where is it stated that Eli is 'insane'? At worst he seems too much like a hippie.

I want to know more about Novalis. And Game, since he seems so powerful in Hell.

Asmodeus has an expanded writeup too. He's pretty cool when players and GMs aren't wanking over him. As for likeable Superiors, it depends on how you as a GM portray them. Canonically, the writing is too over the place for most writeups and usually comes across as everyone being a giant sperglord rear end in a top hat who's impossible to deal with. The intent, however, is that they're pretty ok to work for, just don't poo poo on their Word and screw around. They're ancient element beings with some human traits, not humans with some ancient elemental traits.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Kurieg posted:

Yup, and it's a dark secret that the all powerful shadowy council of elf wizards works hard to hide from the outside world.

Golarion is composed of equal parts "Hey that's kind of neat" and "Oh god why would you do this!?"

And here I thought the elf queen having an implied romantic relationship with her pet falcon was weird.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer
What made me like Litheroy was his encounter with Andrealphus. Both the idea that he basically broke the Prince of Lust by pure curiosity and that Dominic upon hearing this encounter just started to laugh before warning him to be more careful next time.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Litheroy is a pretty cool dude. Believe me when I say that a naive super-truth spitting happy snake is vastly preferable to how most Seraphim are, which is usually arrogant, socially impossible, violently adverse to lies, disdainful of humans, disdainful of every Choir below them, and about as easy to talk to as an actual basket full of enraged vipers.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Black August posted:

Asmodeus has an expanded writeup too. He's pretty cool when players and GMs aren't wanking over him. As for likeable Superiors, it depends on how you as a GM portray them. Canonically, the writing is too over the place for most writeups and usually comes across as everyone being a giant sperglord rear end in a top hat who's impossible to deal with. The intent, however, is that they're pretty ok to work for, just don't poo poo on their Word and screw around. They're ancient element beings with some human traits, not humans with some ancient elemental traits.

If In Nomine ever gets a second edition, I hope it makes being Word-bound a lot less like being mentally ill. The Superiors tend to come across as obsessed with their tiny piece of the pie to the point that giving them leadership positions is fabulously unwise.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

IF YOU SEE ME SHITTING UP A THREAD ABOUT CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED MMORPG FINAL FANTASY XIV PLEASE REMIND ME THAT I QUIT THE GAME BECAUSE IT COULD NOT HANDLE MY LOFTY CRITICISMS OF VIOLENCE IN MEDIA

AND ALSO TO SHUT THE HELL UP

Black August posted:

Litheroy is a pretty cool dude. Believe me when I say that a naive super-truth spitting happy snake is vastly preferable to how most Seraphim are, which is usually arrogant, socially impossible, violently adverse to lies, disdainful of humans, disdainful of every Choir below them, and about as easy to talk to as an actual basket full of enraged vipers.

Eh, I think I prefer interpreting Litheroy as a hair away from Falling and generally being more of a problem for heaven than a help. In an ideal world, he'd be fine. But he's not in an ideal world, and doubly so when interacting with humans.

He's as arrogant and socially impossible as they come, just in a different way from usual.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Cythereal posted:

Eh, I think I prefer interpreting Litheroy as a hair away from Falling and generally being more of a problem for heaven than a help. In an ideal world, he'd be fine. But he's not in an ideal world, and doubly so when interacting with humans.

He's as arrogant and socially impossible as they come, just in a different way from usual.

Jaina's story seems like a pretty good indication of what working for Litheroy is like, complete with victim-blaming.

I wouldn't put him as anywhere near Falling, though.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

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Walls of Text
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Litheroy never does anything dissonant even slightly. He's nowhere near a Fall, however you read him, but he might well be totally useless at a lot of stuff.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Rand Brittain posted:

If In Nomine ever gets a second edition, I hope it makes being Word-bound a lot less like being mentally ill. The Superiors tend to come across as obsessed with their tiny piece of the pie to the point that giving them leadership positions is fabulously unwise.

That's another point touched on in some books. Wordbound are MEANT to come across as frighteningly focused, because they are less a person anymore, and more their Word - they are a living concept, and that's kind of unpleasant. But it gives tremendous power to Heaven and Hell both, so they're not going to stop anytime soon. They're also affected by mankind; there's one example where, if the concept of Flowers was somehow changed enough that everyone associated them primarily with poison, or death, then Novalis would either have to give up those aspects of her Word and become severely less powerful, or she'd have to embrace those ideas at risk to herself.

But this is why Litheroy is a Minor Archangel. He's limited, situational, but still powerful in his area.

EDIT: Yeah, Litheroy is nowhere NEAR a Fall unless you change the game to portray that. None of the Archangels are save Khalid in his adventure seeds, and people fear Eli may be. Eli is kind of insane, in the sense that you do not up and abandon your entire organization to go on walkabout unless you're hosed in the head, or you know something. Or both. There's also Gabriel, but her Fall would easily be the result of Word-friction over actually acting against her nature.

But this is why Dominic exists. They're in a War that's testing their natures every single goddamn day in the worse ways possible, while they have to blend into and remain secret among mankind. These are glass bubbles in a powerful storm.

Black August fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Feb 7, 2016

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

IF YOU SEE ME SHITTING UP A THREAD ABOUT CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED MMORPG FINAL FANTASY XIV PLEASE REMIND ME THAT I QUIT THE GAME BECAUSE IT COULD NOT HANDLE MY LOFTY CRITICISMS OF VIOLENCE IN MEDIA

AND ALSO TO SHUT THE HELL UP
I see Litheroy as being close to Falling because of how destructive to society his Word has made him: he has no concept of privacy, refuses to believe that anything is better left buried, and no social filter on what is and is not appropriate. He reads to me as profoundly autistic, and one act of misplaced faith away from being Outcast. Even if he comes back, I think it would be Alfred Nobel style: seeing the papers erroneously report his death by celebrating that the Merchant of Death is dead, which lead him to create the Nobel Prizes and seek a better way of being to the world.

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