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ProfessorProf posted:I wish this had come up when it was still deal of the day. But... Twenty-five dollars.
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# ? Feb 19, 2025 04:31 |
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ProfessorProf posted:I wish this had come up when it was still deal of the day. That sounds fantastic, but that price point. The art was that expensive?
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Why am I tempted to not only buy this $25 game, but then F&F it so everyone can have their curiosities sated?
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Couldn't you still review it but instead take it from a designer perspective as in comment on why you made certain decisions and what systems you liked how they turned out and what you view as not quite meeting your original goal.
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Poison Mushroom posted:Man, that seems really loving cool and it's very intriguing. How did you arrive at that price point, ProfessorProf?
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LeSquide posted:How did you arrive at that price point, ProfessorProf? My co-writer has been handling the business end of things, I'll get word from him on the thought process later today. BTW, I made a thread.
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gradenko_2000 posted:As further background, Bill Webb himself is the CEO of Frog God Games, the publisher of Original D&D retroclone Swords & Wizardry (and also Pathfinder-compatible equivalents), and especially the Rappan Athuk megadungeon, which is purportedly inspired by Gygaxian classics like the Tomb of Horrors. Dammit I like Swords & Wizardry. I just hope none of his ideas made it into the actual core rules. quote:Putting this in context is a module like Tomb of Horrors. Imagine a player who has 500 hours invested in learning to play his character; he knows his skills and abilities inside and out. He values and holds dear the life of his character as if it were his own. Now take a player who has maybe 50 hours of play with the same power. Now put them both in Gary’s Tomb. The second guy is in for a short adventure. I don't think I need 500 hours of experience to wrap my head around "I'm a level 10 Fighter. My skills an abilities are that I can hit stuff! And I may or may not have a castle somewhere!" quote:Even players using the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game could try this approach. It would take some getting used to, but I encourage you to give it a try and see how the players adapt. Try the 3d6 method, too. Players used to all high scores may complain at first, but after a while they get used to it and start using their heads instead of their stats to make characters legendary. The single highest level player character ever to play in my Lost Lands campaign (Flail the Great) had a 17 wisdom and nothing else above 9. That's out to work well. It's not like Attribute bonuses are slightly more important in recent D&D iterations than they used to be. "Player skill" is also not entirely helpful if the game mechanics are actually somewhat sound and your character just sucks in terms of probabilities and stuff. gradenko_2000 posted:Foraging Aren't thieves supposed to be more at home in cities? What do they know about wilderness survival? Or maybe that's just my experience with The Dark Eye breaking through. gradenko_2000 posted:Not really? It's the thing that always happens in heartbreakers when someone comes up with an idea to make combat more "realistic", often at the expense of Fighters, and then never (or in this case, only barely) makes the connection that anything that makes Fighters worse makes Wizards indirectly better as a consequence. "I demand absoluate adherence to realism in my fantasy game of orcs and elves in which wizards violate every law of physics there is!" ProfessorProf posted:A friend of mine is prepping to run a One Piece game in it as we speak, it's more or less perfect for it. Gundam could work, although a lot of details would need to be abstracted (at least until we get our mecha splatbook out). People were talking about Pretty Cure / Sailor Moon earlier, also works great for that sort of thing. Gotta test myself. For you see... Poison Mushroom posted:Why am I tempted to not only buy this $25 game, but then F&F it so everyone can have their curiosities sated? I already have. I'm downright decadent in the first few months of each year because Christmas and my birthday are so close together. I could do a F&F if nobody else wants to. Hunt11 posted:Couldn't you still review it but instead take it from a designer perspective as in comment on why you made certain decisions and what systems you liked how they turned out and what you view as not quite meeting your original goal. I'd say someone else does it while he comments on each post.
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gradenko_2000 posted:Not really? It's the thing that always happens in heartbreakers when someone comes up with an idea to make combat more "realistic", often at the expense of Fighters, and then never (or in this case, only barely) makes the connection that anything that makes Fighters worse makes Wizards indirectly better as a consequence.
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FMguru posted:Way back in grognards.txt, we noticed that fantasy games and supplements that add rules and options for fighting always ended up making fighting characters weaker (fatigue points, weapons getting damaged, bowstrings snapping, armor getting rusty, etc.) while games and supplements that added more rules and options for spellcasters always made them stronger (more spells, more specializations, more magic items, more things to summon, more rules for crafting items, etc.) It's like some sort of favoritism towards what is essentially the medieval fantasy equivalent of nerds.
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FMguru posted:Way back in grognards.txt, we noticed that fantasy games and supplements that add rules and options for fighting always ended up making fighting characters weaker (fatigue points, weapons getting damaged, bowstrings snapping, armor getting rusty, etc.) while games and supplements that added more rules and options for spellcasters always made them stronger (more spells, more specializations, more magic items, more things to summon, more rules for crafting items, etc.) My knowledge isn't exhaustive, of course but that is the general impression I got when I still bothered to look through D&D splats. Only exceptions I can think of would be the book of Weaboo-Fighting Magic and a book a friend of mine broke out the one time it was suggested we play 3.x: it had rules for some kind of ultra-heavy platemail that started to gain non-magical enhancement ratings because it's so drat heavy and/or well-crafted. As I recall it was basically 40k Space Marine armor, going by the art.
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Probably Races of Stone, which had a bunch of new types of heavy armor and feats to try and make wearing it more attractive.
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Doesn't help with the Wizard spell selection that after a point, you can make a pretty viable part out of one-two Cleric/Druids and three-five wizards if you can survive the initial low-level hump.
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gradenko_2000 posted:Bill Webb's Book of Dirty Tricks Since AC scales differently in Swords & Wizardry than it does in PF, what does he say about using it in PF? Use it as-is, or try a different method? A 0 AC is really good in S&W, but under the ascending variant it's a value of 19 AC. Since everything scales faster in Pathfinder, a 19 AC in that game's not very impressive at middle to higher levels. A 0 AC in that game would probably be the thematic equivalent of a 25 to 28 AC in that this is a good value for people to have at most levels.
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Libertad! posted:Since AC scales differently in Swords & Wizardry than it does in PF, what does he say about using it in PF? Use it as-is, or try a different method? I'd first like to note that for the most part, the "compatibility" with Pathfinder seems to be more perfunctory than anything else - the Pathfinder sidebar for the foraging and traveling rules for example, basically says "look up the Pathfinder core rules for foraging and traveling, since that's already covered there" That said, for this particular rule, if we work backwards from "needs a 17 or better to hit a target with AC 0", then I feel like the Pathfinder interpretation would be that Fighters have a flat BAB of +3. If your target has plate mail and a shield for AC 20, you'd need to roll a 17 or better on a d20 to hit them: 17 + 3 BAB = 20 The punchline is that while you could squeeze out more bonuses from your STR modifier and your weapon's magic enhancement bonus, the former won't happen because these houserules suggest using 3d6-in-order even while playing PF, and the latter won't happen because these houserules suggest tight control of loot and treasure! And finally, you are correct insofar as AC in PF isn't "capped" like it is in OD&D/S&W, such that the model will break down at some point unless you also start rejiggering the AC numbers of high-level monsters.
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I'm getting the feeling that Bill hates elves because Bill leans on secret doors too heavily, and Bill's players caught wise-- like the one who started casting buffs when he noticed that particularly dense fluff descriptions coincided with a likely rain of poo poo.
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Bieeardo posted:I'm getting the feeling that Bill hates elves because Bill leans on secret doors too heavily, and Bill's players caught wise-- like the one who started casting buffs when he noticed that particularly dense fluff descriptions coincided with a likely rain of poo poo. Plus they have darkvision (depending on the edition of course, but definitely in his own Swords & Wizardry game), and adversarial GMs hate it if you deny them such fun tricks as "Everyone in the entire area knows you're coming because of your torches" or "Nobody said anything about lighting torches, so I assume you've all been stumbling around in the dark for hours and are now ambushed by monsters".
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Doresh posted:Plus they have darkvision (depending on the edition of course, but definitely in his own Swords & Wizardry game), and adversarial GMs hate it if you deny them such fun tricks as "Everyone in the entire area knows you're coming because of your torches" or "Nobody said anything about lighting torches, so I assume you've all been stumbling around in the dark for hours and are now ambushed by monsters". In my current Pathfinder campaign we have a tiefling, a goblin, and three drow forming our party. Being able to see in the dark all the time without worrying about torches is a real game-changer. Of course, that mostly matters if the GM's a stickler for that kind of thing, which I can see in OSR games due to the whole resource management of dungeon-delving.
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So have you ever found yourself reading Witch Girl Adventures and thinking “You know what, this could really stand to be more like the World of Darkness”? If so A: Seriously re-evaluate the decisions in your life that have brought you to this point. and B: You are, unfortunately, not alone.![]() Bellum Maga is brought to us by “Novus Dea Games” which I’m told is bad latin for “New Goddess”, Bellum Maga is “Female wizards of War” but I’m guessing they were aiming for “War Witches”. Novus Dea Games consists of Abigail Soto,(one of Witch Girl Adventure’s main artists), her sister Penelope, and a small army of female artists providing interior art. There’s also an editor credited but near as I can tell this book has had absolutely no proofreading beyond a spellcheck pass because there are several fairly obvious typos that can be noticed with even the most casual reading. ![]() It has a “condemnation” section that’s completely superfluous given the entirety of the rest of the game’s context, and contains our first typo (trying to turning), it won’t be the last. And since this game is White Wolf as gently caress, it has opening in-character fiction. quote:Coming Full Circe quote:But before we get to my story, let me tell you another one, a sad one. quote:Digahol is everything you should fear about small town life. It’s a farm town and I have nothing against farmers or farming, I personally like food and I have the curves to prove it. But it’s also a very insular town, with a population of just under six-thousand, the three non-white families are treated and viewed as if their zoo exhibits and are known with upmost respect as the friend of the family-Johnsons, the Gomexies and the Chinks-Chans(who last name wasn’t even Chan). Since our ‘protagonist’ is describing herself, I might as well post the accompanying photo. ![]() Yes, her hair is purple, to what degree it is purple varies widely depending on the artist, but we’ll be seeing a lot of her. quote:Like many a small town Saturday night is either football in the fall or party night for the teens at the lake. The lake is where a sad chubby little girl named Tammy Winters was raped twice, once at age fifteen and one again at age sixteen. Also: as the next paragraph will tell us she apparently graduated at the age of sixteen, with the rest of her class, despite the fact that we were previously told that this mysterious nexus of sexism and racism in rural iowa doesn’t have an advanced placement program and she spent two years in a downward spiral of sex, drugs, and self harm? This is ludicrously implausible. ![]() quote:New York City, is no place for a sixteen year old girl with a bag full of clothing, 34 dollars in her pocket, half a pack of cigarettes and no friends or family. Tammy learned several hard lessons her first year in “The Big Apple”. She learned how to beg, how to steal and how to ignore the pains of hunger that rumbled in her stomach. Roaming the streets with teenagers like herself that slept in abandoned house, ran from the police and got high sniffing glue in central park she knew her life would be a short one but still the freedom she found here was better (at least in her mind) than the one she had in Digahol. quote:So yeah, rock bottom, suicidal and alone when not sleeping where I could I made my way to the Central Library where like a lot of the homeless hid from the weather and police, but unlike a lot of my downtrodden brothers and sisters I also used my time there to read and on the internet. It was there I saw that fourteen year old girl was killed in for witchcraft in the suburbs of Omaha. Burned as a witch in the 21st century, in an American suburb it was unthinkable and it shocked me. Shocked me so much that it consumed my thoughts, it replaced my self hate and I like so many others started to chant on the streets “Avenge Ashley”. ![]() quote:I was still an atheist. I didn’t believe in God, Santa Claus, or Superman and FYI at the time I placed them all in the same category. But still here I was with this book, my life marginally better and a mind that was once again curious and aching for knowledge. So against my better judgment and my logical mind, I prayed to Circe, I confessed my sins and my fears. ![]() I feel like I’m stroking out please send help. quote:She.. It… was Circe, tall perfect, voice like honey and eyes as green as the sea. She told me I was special and that she had heard my prayers. That I was being tested before being tapped for the most important mission of all. I was to be her priestess and that the world that I knew, it’s history and it’s present were a lie created by a creature she called “The Old Garden Snake”. Hey Tammy, here’s a question you should ask your god, “Why did you feel the need to rape me 5 times?” ![]() quote:The rite was Simple, a silver knife, a bath tub, candles, a full moon and drop of Circe’s blood in the tub where I slit my wrist and bleed out hoping against hope I was right and I wasn’t dreaming the days previous events. So, about 10pm that night Tammy Winters died, and Minerva Winters was born. quote:I thought when I woke up I would be a supermodel, but you see the idea of the supermodel is a lie of the snake, physical beauty and perfection comes in all shapes and sizes. I was me, but not me, I was curvy, still needing glasses and still as pale as a Nordic ghost. My brown hair was gone replaced by naturally purple hair, my favorite color, a color t shared with my eyes. I no longer felt tired or sluggish, I felt alive, I had new lungs, new liver, new heart and a new brain sharper than ever. I was a Maga, a Demi-Goddess in the flesh and beyond all of that and the joy of a new life I felt something else…. I felt magic. ![]() quote:So it came to the surprise of no one when Selene found herself on the run after spray painting “Pigs” on multiple police cruisers. That after being arrested, she was handcuffed and beaten, but instead of taking the beating Selene grabbed the gun of a careless Policeman and shot her attackers and killed four policemen before being tasered, beaten and shot herself. quote:That’s the “the Old Garden Snake” works, it corrupts an organization and that organization it’s members and soon that corruption spreads. It’s on that mission I learned sometimes you have to cut out the “cancer” to save the body. I came in posing as an idealistic lawyer. A little bit of magic made the ruse believable but the serpent’s men knew I was coming or at the very least sensed me there and attack. LIke I said I was new, I was green and I had never been shot at. In the end I failed to reach Selene. The first time. ![]() So yes, not knowing what would happen she poisoned her charge and set her on fire, and then it all worked out okay, and then they left for New York somehow! And she doesn't understand how commas and periods interact! Don’t worry everything's fine! Would you believe me that this is going to get worse before it gets better? Since it’s exceptionally short, let’s squeeze in the first chapter as well. ![]() Chapter 1: Beginnings It opens with an in character form letter from “Minerva, High Priestess Circe” that doesn’t have many typos outside of her apparently not being the High Priestess of Circe. And the phrase “Time to woman up!” What is Bellum Maga (No question mark) Take the modern world, and “place it a fantasy setting” where witches battle the patriarchy for the minds and souls of earth. Is this a Feminist Game? The fact that this isn’t just “loving YES! NEXT QUESTION” in 72 point font is a travesty. Since most RPGs are full of male fantasies, vapid female characters and racial prejudice (“I know a lot of you are thinking that’s not true, but it is if you really look at it.”) they decided to make their own. That’s not to say that they’re wrong, RPGs have usually been male power fantasies, the issue is that they went way too far in the other direction. quote:That’s not to say men and boys can’t play this game. Nor is it saying this game has any agenda other than having fun in a different kid of universe. One where the ladies are taking the lead and bringing right-wing-conservative-racist-luddite leaders and their followers to task. That isn’t to say that the “Patriacracy” isn’t probably primarily caucasian and male. Just that there should be some outliers, just look at Fox News. Once Upon a Time “The world of Bellum Maga is based on two premises That History is a lie and that Fairy Tales are real.” Right so.. a summary. In the beginning women ruled the world (as was right) because mankind still revered the earth and the Goddesshead. This universal time known as the “Pax Majestrix”(Peace of the Great Woman) came to an end 5000 years ago when Cain(yes, that cain, apparently) made a deal with a being of discord and destruction known as Rex Anguis (The Snake King). Cain freed the Snake and it engaged the Goddesshead in a stalemate battle and the power of the Maga weakened as the Goddesshead used it to try and cage the serpent which was feeding off of mankind;s “war, greed, intolerance and ignorance”. The Maga thought they were abandoned and either killed themselves so their power could return to the Goddesshead, or went into hiding. “Man” in this time villified the Maga, turning them into the “dark sorceress, the evil queen and the deomoness.” until Maga faded into myth. But then a girl was burned at the stake in Nebraska(I’m still confused as to why) and there was a nationwide outrage of women which weakened the Serpent and empowered the Goddesshead to create more Maga. One thing to note is that this game uses white wolf's dice system, but with d6s instead of d10s, 123 is a failure, 456 is a success. Critical hits and failures still exist, but as "all 1s" and "all 6s", meaning that it's virtually impossible to crit once you get higher amounts of dice, but it's also nearly impossible to crit fail. Now it’s time for our second favorite part of any white-wolf-ish book (there aren’t stereotypes, sadly) the lexicon! ”Lexicon” posted:
The chapter closes out with a chat log where women reduce men to things only fit to do their housework. No seriously. ![]() Next time: Character Creation: Take two Parts World of Darkness, one part IKRPG, add Fate to taste
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These parts of the GMG are handy for some flavor ideas for a setting, though they are pretty dry around this point. It picks back up when it discusses the timeline, and then how to make Superiors work for your setting.
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Kurieg posted:
It's got two. That lovely, lovely font is obscuring a superfluous 'I' in Condemnation.
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I lost count how many times I rolled my eyes at the introductory stuff in Bella Maga. Though to be fair, the murder of a young girl in such a brutal fashion sells newspapers like hot cakes, so it's gonna be reported even if it took place in Nebraska.
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![]() Alright people. Someone sent us 3rd edition Synnibarr, the continued brainchild of the oracular madman Raven "Carbonadium Smasher" McCracken, and so after avoiding it and trying not to look at it for months, we finally reviewed the drat thing.
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Excellent. And hey look, it's my favorite WoD game: Femi, the Nazying. I'm not sure what's worse: That they so didn't stick the landing, that the mustache-twirling patriarchs will just go "Hur hur women can't type for poo poo" before returning to their daily reading of FATAL, or that they apparently missed the transgender bandwagon for extra progressiveness. Or maybe men just cannot be redeemned, even if they identify as a woman? And since this seems to be the perfect opportunity to mention it, this is apparently a thing. Could this be the exception of the magical girl RPG rule "In the grim darkness of the Silver Millenium, there is only Meguca"? I dunno, but I'll keep it in my F&F todo list. Doresh fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Doresh posted:Or that they apparently missed the transgender bandwagon for extra progressiveness. Or maybe men just cannot be redeemned, even if they identify as a woman? They address this next chapter. They do not address it well.
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Placing an early bet on "addressed like a TG fetishist would address it in a TG fetish comic." Or is that like betting that the author breathes oxygen and obtains nutrition from food?
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Ooh, playing the longshot, huh? I'll take the safe bet and place my money on "handle it like a radfem would handle it".
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Pretty sure the answer is "You're both right", which is why I suggested the game be called "TERF Wars" in the Industry thread where it first came up.
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Robindaybird posted:I lost count how many times I rolled my eyes at the introductory stuff in Bella Maga. Missing White Girl syndrome. unseenlibrarian posted:Pretty sure the answer is "You're both right", which is why I suggested the game be called "TERF Wars" in the Industry thread where it first came up. Given this is a Witch Girls spin off and turning white men into objects/animals is a thing, maybe it's "fetishist sadistic vore" stuff. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Yeah, my money is on "Fetishized" or "TERF"
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I like how between Bill Webb and Bellum Maga, the Ravenloft review is the -least- horrifying thing in this thread right now.
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I have a distinct feeling that transformation spells are excruciatingly painful.
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Why is 'Fairy-tales are real!' a lynchpin of the setting? A lot of fairy-tales are quite sexist.
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The obvious solution is to have a wizard who casts fireball describe how they cast the spell. If it sounds legit make them roll to hit, if they fail roll on the scatter table to see how far it deviates. That would be a good way of enforcing Paradigm in Mage. Done right, it encourages research on cool real magic rituals (which is usually weirder than anything a game designer would come up with). I'd never play this guy's tabletop game, but if he designed Dark Souls/Fantasy Oregon Trail as a brutal roguelike he'd rake in the dough on Steam. I think Darkest Dungeon is the latest darling, but everyone seems to buy those type of games.
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Crasical posted:I like how between Bill Webb and Bellum Maga, the Ravenloft review is the -least- horrifying thing in this thread right now. . Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Aug 24, 2016 |
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Ratoslov posted:Why is 'Fairy-tales are real!' a lynchpin of the setting? A lot of fairy-tales are quite sexist. Revisionist Fairytales are in vogue, and admittedly some are actually not that bad, but yes a lot of them are horseshit sexist, especially Bluebeard, where some versions blames the bride for being curious and disobedient.
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Bieeardo posted:I'm getting the feeling that Bill hates elves because Bill leans on secret doors too heavily, and Bill's players caught wise-- like the one who started casting buffs when he noticed that particularly dense fluff descriptions coincided with a likely rain of poo poo. The review mentioned something about dwarves being able to get more info on stone-based traps automatically, which brings to mind a Fantasy GUMSHOE where you automatically make Investigation rolls based on your character's knowledge. Robindaybird posted:Revisionist Fairytales are in vogue, and admittedly some are actually not that bad, but yes a lot of them are horseshit sexist, especially Bluebeard, where some versions blames the bride for being curious and disobedient. One of last year's best sci-fi movies was based on Bluebeard, Ex Machina. It's like the Angela Carter version. Her 'revisionist fairytales' are the best:
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Count Chocula posted:The review mentioned something about dwarves being able to get more info on stone-based traps automatically, which brings to mind a Fantasy GUMSHOE where you automatically make Investigation rolls based on your character's knowledge. There's an earlier version or perhaps, just one with the same basic story fame called Fitcher's Bird, where the bride instead of crying for help, the bride escapes by disguising herself as a strange bird. King Thrushbeard is sexist no matter how you spin it.
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Robindaybird posted:I lost count how many times I rolled my eyes at the introductory stuff in Bella Maga. That would be huge news! Especially since it plays into the prejudice the North has against the South and prevailing narratives about sexism. Speaking of sexism: quote:You know, in a world where a sixteen year old girl can lose herself in drugs, whore herself out, still graduate two years early from highschool at the top of her class, run away to New York City, get lost in the cracks again, whore herself out again, get put in a mental institution and escape, and there exists an all powerful Patrikakrkachakchy. The fact that a New York news magazine would give two fucks about a fourteen year old girl killed for witchcraft in loving Nebraska is the most implausible thing. To then be quickly topped by her somehow stumbling her way into a witchcraft support group with helpful seed money and a “how to witch” book. Huh? Heaps of people do drugs, 'whore themselves out' (to use your charming phrase), still get good grades, go to New York, and leave mental insitutions. Some of them even have colorful hair! It's almost like there's some kind of all-pervasive social system that causes these problems and then shames the victims of them! Some kind of... Patriarchy. Did you really imply it only exists in the game? The writing and editing are crap, and this book totally deserves mocking by some smart women, but we need more riot girl witch RPGs and fewer fantasy heartbreakers.
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Count Chocula posted:Huh? Heaps of people do drugs, 'whore themselves out' (to use your charming phrase), still get good grades, go to New York, and leave mental insitutions. Some of them even have colorful hair! It's almost like there's some kind of all-pervasive social system that causes these problems and then shames the victims of them! Some kind of... Patriarchy. I'm saying it as a woman. Yes, stuff like this happens and yes male privilege makes things hard for women and the patriarchy does exist to an extent. But the whole narrative just reeks of melodrama for the sake of scoring Mary Sue bingo points, and not a real look into the causes of self-destructive behavior, or how it's society's fault beyond "Well because!" or "Because white men!" - that's a childish oversimplification of complex social issues There's a certain point when the tragedy is piled on too high and it becomes a farce, especially when wrapped up in a "Circe was just testing me!" narrative.
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# ? Feb 19, 2025 04:31 |
It's badly written and cheesy, but there's so many male power fantasies that are just as bad. Maybe some kind of resistance can help - creating stories, no matter how dumb, that women can use as sources of power, or stepping stones to read deeper. I dunno, maybe the whole 'power of stories' thing is privileged bullshit. But everyone deserves imaginative armor to step into. And hey, pretending to beat up rednecks and right-wing assholes can be fun.
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