|
Leraika posted:Yeah, I was gonna comment on that, too. It seems a profoundly stupid idea to make the stat that gets lost first the preferred stat of the guy who's gonna be in the middle of combat all the time. The thing is, Traveller (and I bet some other games) also does "damage goes right to stats so you don't have a separate HP stat", but Traveller also doesn't make you spend your stats to help you succeed at things. You can almost see where the design fits together where the goal is to only ever attempt things that you will automatically succeed at (by reducing the difficulty to zero) so that you never roll and thus can't get any Nat 1 Intrusions, but the moment you have to push yourself to using Effort to do that, you're draining your own HP anyway. I suppose it's possible that we're overstating this and it actually all works out in the end, but I'm really disappointed that they never even tried to modify it even slightly for the "2nd Edition".
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 13:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jan 16, 2025 05:02 |
|
|
Yeah, this isn't even a 1.5 - this is a glorified reprint with a setting book attached. Even Call of Cthulhu editions changed more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 14:06
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:The thing is, Traveller (and I bet some other games) also does "damage goes right to stats so you don't have a separate HP stat", but Traveller also doesn't make you spend your stats to help you succeed at things. I imagine that in those cases, you either had a choice of which stat got burnt or different abilities drained different stats, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 14:17
|
|
|
occamsnailfile posted:Of course, these are just the beginning characters, the disparity will grow over time. Also guess which stat Glaives have to spend to power their abilities? The one that takes damage first. Starfinger has you spend "Resolve Points" to activate your strongest abilities. Resolve Points are also what you use for out-of-combat healing and to avoid dying when put into a downed state. This sort of bush league mechanic is gonna be with us for awhile, it looks like.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 14:28
|
|
|
In fairness, Blades in the Dark lets you take stress to get bonuses, too, but it does it...actually well?
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:This case study of "What if FATE but D&D" run back and forth through Google Translate is fascinating. It used to be FATE and now it's Fate. On the subject of Numenera, one of the things they changed for the video game was the introduction of a more traditional hit point bar -- so MCG have a concrete example of how the game might play if they threw out their death spiral mechanic, they just chose not to implement it for version 2.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 15:53
|
|
|
Warhammer Fantasy: Realm of the Ice Queen Men sing songs of better days, and wait for the taint to kill them. Praag is marked by its great bridges and massive walls. The city has always been under siege in one capacity or another, being a big bastion of wealth and trade, and after every sack and fall they have rebuilt the walls before anything else. The southern gate is also the city's river-dock, because Praag is on the north-eastern run of the Lynsk river (one thing I've always appreciated in Hams is that they understand how important river and sea travel are compared to road travel in the time/context they're written for), which allows goods to flow out the south towards Erengrad and the sea. To the east is the great Mountain Gate, leading out onto the trade roads that will cross both the World's Edge Mountains and the Darklands to Cathay. And in the north is the Gate of Gargoyles, a long-suffering gate that has fallen many times over the centuries. Ever since the 2302 sack, people say the gargoyles are haunted, and that if anyone accidentally looks one in the eye it will hunt you down that night. No-one knows of this is true, but given all the other awful things Chaos dumped on Praag this wouldn't be out of sorts. The two great bridges of Old Town lead across the Lynsk, within the original city walls rather than the 16th century expansion walls. One is Karlsbridge, named for a great Ungol leader who first tried to lead Praag to secession from Gospodar domination. It was built by dwarven craftsmen, and so has never fallen in any of the sacks, despite the damage Chaos has tried to inflict on it. The northernmost bridge, the Bridge of Death, is so called because it leads directly to the training grounds and barracks of the city's citadel. Men and women cross it to become soldiers, and in Kislevite tradition, this is seen as going to your death until proven otherwise by surviving it. This bridge is haunted; anyone crossing at night will feel someone following them, and if they look back, a cloaked figure will draw nearer and nearer as they get further along the bridge, though it never catches up. The Old Town is the core of Praag, and was spared the worst in 2302 because it was behind a second set of walls and defenses. Despite Kul's desire to destroy the city utterly, he did not have infinite time and settled for planting seeds of taint rather than the utter devastation visited on Novygrad. This area is safe enough, even at night, though the people can seem a little strange and forlorn. Old Town is marked by the original city walls, and its buildings have always been tight-packed to represent how people tried to use all available space before expanding the city and having to build a second set of walls 8 centuries back. Rebuilding proceeds apace here, both from the 2302 horror and the latest, lighter damage inflicted by the Storm. The area is still marked by the taint of Chaos, and mutation is much more common in the Praag Old Town than it is in most of the Old World. Those who remain...presentable are simply allowed to exist, because trying to kill everyone with a minor deformity like a simple third eye or extra finger would depopulate the city. Here in the Praag Old Town, you can find all manner of goods from Cathay, Ind, Nippon and beyond, as well as dark and forbidden relics and books, strange art objects, and exotic magical ingredients. Novygrad is a nightmare. The region close to the north gate, packed with the poorest and newest citizens of the city, it was the first to be put to the corrupting touch of evil in 2302. It suffered so badly that the people of Praag have simply had to wall it up. Even burning the place to the ground, multiple times, has not quite erased the deep and abiding darkness visited upon the land. This is a place for cultists, criminals, outcasts, and rebels, because no sane person enters Novygrad during the day, and even the mad scurry back out of it at night. Sunworms, Chaos Slime, and other threats still live, oozing out of the basements where whole families were sacrificed by the invaders when the sun goes down. Wandering Noygrad at night is like a small taste of being in the Chaos Wastes; the streets will change where they go and where they lead. Buildings shift and move places. What looked like road becomes deadly quicksand. Obviously, this is an excellent place to strand PCs for awhile, looking for some lost valuable from centuries ago! The garrison tries to clear the place out occasionally, or put down the worst nests of corruption, but by this point it's just accepted that Novygrad may well be lost for good. The Deep City, or Glubograd, was built ages ago by dwarf allies of the city and then promptly lost to the ages. The area beneath the town's citadel is full of vast catacombs, constructed on the order of Z'ra Zoltan, one of the city's past leaders. He believed that with sufficient engineering and aid from the dwarfs, shelters could be built that could protect thousands of people even if the city's walls fell and a siege or sack lasted for years. To that end, he asked his personal Ice Witch assistant, Walpurga, to research how they could replicate the sun down below in order to farm and grow crops, in case of needing to live there for extended times. Legend has it that she succeeded, and that down in the true Deeps of the city there are catacombs with sun and food and water, but that she also discovered some kind of strange and terrible power deep at the heart of the stone beneath the city. Something that made sure all maps to this 'True Deep' were destroyed, both in the Great War and before it. No-one knows what might really be waiting down beneath the salt-soaked crags, in those blackened arcades of antiquity... And if that isn't an adventure hook, what the hell is? The Noble Quarter sits in the south east of the city, and as such has always been the least touched when Chaos damages the place. This is home to some of the greatest artists, museums, and architecture in all of Kislev. It is also where one finds the Great Opera House. Praag's Opera House is one of the joys of the city, and performances have resumed as soon as possible after every sack and every war. The people of Praag believe that their art, their poetry, and their opera are one of the ways to show they defy the Dark Gods' desire to destroy their city, and the Opera House is the most world-famous focal point of that struggle. The Druzhina of the city consider this one of their duties, and they pour gold into patronage and elaborate public festivals to keep the city from falling completely into despair. This is one of the parts that makes Praag my favorite of the various cursed and ruined places in the great human nations. The Merchant Quarter is in chaos, as the refugees from the northern parts of the city that *aren't* Novygrad fled the attack by Archaon and took over abandoned warehouses and businesses to live in. The local merchants, whose trade is essential to the survival of the city (even before the corruption, Praag couldn't feed itself and the land around it was always terrible for agriculture), are mixed on whether this represents a wonderful opportunity or an unwanted intrusion. Some of the worst have turned to the flesh trade, selling refugees as debtor-laborers and slaves to the passing caravans. Considering that one of the races waiting in the Darklands on the caravan route is the Chaos Dwarfs...this is, uh, bad. The Merchant Quarter of Praag is usually not so dark, though. The furriers, silversmiths, and sellers of exotic goods are more common than the slavers, though crime is rampant wherever there is so much money to be made or lost. The Merchant Quarter of Praag is also unique for being rife with Ogres. Ogre mercenaries and laborers often accompany the caravans, because Ogres aren't evil, just very hungry. As long as the merchants can keep them in good food, a giant, boisterous mountain of muscle can be a good thing to have around. Next: The Place of the Cursed City.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 15:54
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:In fairness, Blades in the Dark lets you take stress to get bonuses, too, but it does it...actually well? I don't know about BitD, but balancing different choices of where to spend your resources is a fine mechanic that plenty of good games benefit from. It's more of an issue when the sole penalty for failing to balance properly means either losing your character or having to sit out on gameplay for an extended time. It's not a terribly interesting penalty to apply, particularly when there's no escalation or warning mechanics to give some indication of when you need to preserve your resources more carefully.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:In fairness, Blades in the Dark lets you take stress to get bonuses, too, but it does it...actually well? Stress is a pool, not an attribute. You never resolve a roll against stress. In Numenera your pools ARE attributes. This is the kind of thing that's so dumb you should try it out for one round of play testing and then trash it, but here it is in the successor of a popular? completed game. E: Surely, Monte Cook has written a design blog on this bizarre decision. I'd love to read it. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Sep 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
Numenera is a perfect storm of D&D sacred cows and bad design decisions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:Numenera is a perfect storm of D&D sacred cows and bad design decisions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
but it doesn't come with a plastic hand statue to jack off with
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
Numenera is yet another game that just staggers me with its lack of innovation. You're reality-hopping bearers of the secret power underlying all reality, who twist causality itself to your whim and change identities like coats... and just by pure coincidence the archetypes your mystical power can manifest in are exactly The Fighter, The Rogue, and The Wizard, and the primary thing you do in the multiverse is collect Magic Items that let you do things like see in the dark or shoot fireballs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
megane posted:Numenera is yet another game that just staggers me with its lack of innovation. You're reality-hopping bearers of the secret power underlying all reality, who twist causality itself to your whim and change identities like coats... and just by pure coincidence the archetypes your mystical power can manifest in are exactly The Fighter, The Rogue, and The Wizard, and the primary thing you do in the multiverse is collect Magic Items that let you do things like see in the dark or shoot fireballs. That's actually a different game entirely, called The Strange. Well, different game, same engine, and really nothing you said changes at all. I'm actually kind of amazed they made it worse in v2. Wizard spells had fixed costs. Skill checks, which the not-wizards would be making, were made easier by spending Effort, and now dropping multiple levels of it is actually more expensive. Unless they've changed the level-up math? Or it wasn't mentioned in the quickstart, because you can only put out 1 level at level 1.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:The Deep City, or Glubograd, was built ages ago by dwarf allies of the city and then promptly lost to the ages. The area beneath the town's citadel is full of vast catacombs, constructed on the order of Z'ra Zoltan, one of the city's past leaders. He believed that with sufficient engineering and aid from the dwarfs, shelters could be built that could protect thousands of people even if the city's walls fell and a siege or sack lasted for years. To that end, he asked his personal Ice Witch assistant, Walpurga, to research how they could replicate the sun down below in order to farm and grow crops, in case of needing to live there for extended times. Legend has it that she succeeded, and that down in the true Deeps of the city there are catacombs with sun and food and water, but that she also discovered some kind of strange and terrible power deep at the heart of the stone beneath the city. Something that made sure all maps to this 'True Deep' were destroyed, both in the Great War and before it. No-one knows what might really be waiting down beneath the salt-soaked crags, in those blackened arcades of antiquity... And if that isn't an adventure hook, what the hell is? Back in the dark, forgotten era of 1st ed. when the gods of Order were still a thing, wasn't Praag where Arianka was (supposedly) imprisoned? Fake edit, after a quick googling: yes, yes it was!
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
RedSnapper posted:Back in the dark, forgotten era of 1st ed. when the gods of Order were still a thing, wasn't Praag where Arianka was (supposedly) imprisoned? I had no idea this was a thing in a prior edition (I don't know 1e well, it's literally as old as me) but it remains with the famed opera The Lady In Glass. An epic about a cursed Chaos Warrior who laments his fate, and who is drawn down to the deepest part of Praag to meet a beautiful woman imprisoned in a glass box who can only be awakened by his kiss. Even knowing she will destroy all Chaos afflicting Praag, and that that includes him, he falls in love and accepts his redemption by annihilation, saving the city by freeing the Goddess. Locals usually assume the Lady is Shallya or something. Locals also like to scam adventurers by telling them they know where the real Lady is, and by hiring unmarried women to sit in glass boxes for hours as attractions for the con.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 17:50
|
|
|
The gods are deffo still a thing in 2e, just...different gods. (So not Arianka.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
I wouldn't really call them Gods of Order so much as normal pantheons of Gods that normal people would worship, as opposed to the crazy 'Kill everyone then yourself' Chaos Gods. E: Yeah, looking her up, there's nothing like her in 2e. Just 'Normal Polytheistic Pantheon' vs. 'The Devil But Actually It's 4 Devils' Night10194 fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Sep 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
Oh yeah, there's no overarching 'everyone who is good and just worships these gods' gods.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 19:23
|
|
|
Glazius posted:That's actually a different game entirely, called The Strange. The Strange and Numenera are pretty interchangeable. About as much as 1e and 2e Numenera, it seems. The big add-ons to The Strange are the ability to swap the adjective and the reality-jumping mechanics which is a glorified skill check with a big table of random crit fails. Numenera is even suggested as an alternative prime world instead of Earth, and possibly a place you can travel to through the Strange Starjammer-style. Speaking of The Strange I swear I'll keep going with my writeup now that I'm caught up on the thread again. Got 30 pages beind at one point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
They kept the same mindbogglingly stupid health pool system from the first version. How does that even happen? Ive never encountered a person who seeing that doesnt instantly realize how dumb it is. The video game doesnt even use that and it slavishly kept several other dumb mechanical rules from the tabletop.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
Barudak posted:They kept the same mindbogglingly stupid health pool system from the first version. How does that even happen? Ive never encountered a person who seeing that doesnt instantly realize how dumb it is. The video game doesnt even use that and it slavishly kept several other dumb mechanical rules from the tabletop. Because Monte "I would be flattered if the group bought this game for me, as it means that they think I'm a good enough DM to take on such a challenge." Cook is in charge.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
So, I parsed a few posts wrong...Mors Rattus posted:but it doesn't come with a plastic hand statue to jack off with Glazius posted:That's actually a different game entirely, called The Stranger.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
Glazius posted:I'm actually kind of amazed they made it worse in v2. Wizard spells had fixed costs. Skill checks, which the not-wizards would be making, were made easier by spending Effort, and now dropping multiple levels of it is actually more expensive. I didn't put in the costs in the write-up because I didn't want to get too detailed, but Onslaught still costs 1 Intellect, same as it did in the first version. For that matter, Bash and Thrust also continue to cost 1 Might point to use, though in all cases, Edge will reduce these costs (to zero). Using Effort is less expensive. Whereas in Numenera 1, the cost of applying Effort is [2 + level of Effort], in Numenera 2, it's just a flat 3 Effort every time (with Edge also applying). In both cases, there is a maximum amount of Effort you can apply, but these quickstart rules don't include leveling up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 02:48
|
|
|
The damage system explicitly loving over melee then range then wizards is absolutely hilarious. Fragged Empire does the Stats as HP thing, but you have an ablative shield before that, which is easy to recharge, and also it's randomised what stats get dunked on so it's hard to feel too intentionally hosed over.2menera posted:* Rolling a natural 17 or 18 grants +2 damage. Rolling a natural 19 grants +3 damage, or a "minor" effect. Rolling a natural 20 grants +4 damage, or a "major" effect. Those effects are things you're supposed to make up yourself. Could be exciting, are there no examples of major effect?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 03:29
|
|
|
So, I finally got hold of one of the few WHFRP books I didn't have, the Warhammer Companion, which I had thought had playable Ogres in it. It does not have playable Ogres. It is also the worst sourcebook in the line. Like, full stop. I suppose the random bits on a couple Tilean cities might be useful but all the rest of the 'articles' in it are stuff like 'Extremely complicated rules for running trade routes' or 'Suddenly we declare all Shallyans are poo poo at medicine but also here's 'realistic' medicine rules whereby you have to check for Quack and Infection and clean your wounds or cauterize them with gunpowder or-' or 'Hey here's rules for telling players they have to spend Fate to attempt to use Social skills' It's awful. Absolutely worthless. It's hilarious. It's all the sort of super-detailed stuff no GM has ever used. And where all the 'detail' translates to 'gently caress your players'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 03:34
|
|
|
Cassa posted:Could be exciting, are there no examples of major effect? quote:When you roll a natural 19 (the d20 shows “19”) and the roll is a success, you also have a minor effect. In combat, a minor effect inflicts 3 additional points of damage with your attack, or, if you’d prefer a special result, you could decide instead that you knock the foe back, distract him, or something similar. When not in combat, a minor effect could mean that you perform the action with particular grace. For example, when jumping down from a ledge, you land smoothly on your feet, or when trying to persuade someone, you convince them that you’re smarter than you really are. In other words, you not only succeed but also go a bit further.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 03:58
|
|
|
So Monte Cooke believes that players should be able to have a cool narrative influence over the game about 10% of time. Truly a ground-breaking system.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 12:11
|
|
|
Rolling very high on a die is an important part of a narrative, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 12:31
|
|
|
Strange Matter posted:So Monte Cooke believes that players should be able to have a cool narrative influence over the game about 10% of time. Truly a ground-breaking system. Don't forget that Monte is the guy who defended his ludicrously expensive game by saying that play groups should band together to buy it as a "reward" for their DM's, completely ignoring the fact that some/most DM's run the games they like/feel comfortable with and getting a three hundred dollar game sight unseen is a gigantic imposition. When asked about that he just went off on a self fellating spree about how this was the best game ever and any DM worth their salt should feel honored that their group considers them mature enough to handle Monte Cook's Plastic Hand.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 13:30
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Rolling very high on a die is an important part of a narrative, right? You joke, but there's no shortage of "and then ... he rolled a natural 20! oh man it was the best!" stories across this hobby. I mean, that's no excuse for the design, but some people genuinely believe that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 13:36
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:You joke, but there's no shortage of "and then ... he rolled a natural 20! oh man it was the best!" stories across this hobby. It's such a shame too since the Numenera game world is so cool. I'd love to run it in, say, Reign or something similar (which actually HAS balanced Martial vs Magical mechanics!)
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 13:43
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:You joke, but there's no shortage of "and then ... he rolled a natural 20! oh man it was the best!" stories across this hobby. I mean, if we're being honest, one of my favorite gaming stories involves my character getting several critical successes in a row and divine-smiting the gently caress out of the climactic final boss of an adventure after literally kicking in the 3 story tall stone door of his temple. Though that may be because the DM allowed for such insanity to resolve in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 13:45
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Don't forget that Monte is the guy who defended his ludicrously expensive game by saying that play groups should band together to buy it as a "reward" for their DM's, completely ignoring the fact that some/most DM's run the games they like/feel comfortable with and getting a three hundred dollar game sight unseen is a gigantic imposition. Whoawhoawhat??? Numenara costs $300?!? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:02
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:Whoawhoawhat??? Numenara costs $300?!? No. Monte Cook's Invisible Sun costs 300 bucks. That's the one that Cook was saying players should buy for their GM as a gift.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:06
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:No. Monte Cook's Invisible Sun costs 300 bucks. That's the one that Cook was saying players should buy for their GM as a gift.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
Strange Matter posted:Has there been a Fatal and Friends on Invisible Sun? I feel like I've seen one and just laughed at how important and beloved Monte Cooke thinks he is. He's like the American McGee of tabletop games. It's not out yet -- scheduled for next spring.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:15
|
|
|
Also someone would have to have paid for it to be able to review it, unless it gets leaked/pirated.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:18
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:Whoawhoawhat??? Numenara costs $300?!? Kurieg posted:In other news: Monte Cook's latest kickstarter is up, and it's a doozy. Mors Rattus posted:Also someone would have to have paid for it to be able to review it, unless it gets leaked/pirated. That would be a lot of pirating, remember? https://i.imgur.com/4FJGjov.mp4
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jan 16, 2025 05:02 |
|
|
 Wouldn't you give this man your money?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 14:22
|
|