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Thanks! I was always curious about this but far too lazy to read primary sources. Unrelated: someone should really do a tv series revolving around an officer getting fragged and the investigation following, it's way too interesting a subject to be ignored in works of fiction.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:15 |
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# ? Jan 15, 2025 15:16 |
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open_sketchbook posted:(poo poo no it's straight up Sailor Moon in this piece. You choose your powers by customizing your costume!!!!!) I have myself been contemplating how to make an enjoyable Sailor Moon derived magical girl game, so I am eager to see what you come up with. Mors Rattus posted:I actually have a strong argument for Creamy Mami being stealth Gnosticism in magical girl form, but no one cares except me. I wish to subscribe to this newsletter. inklesspen fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Oct 3, 2017 |
# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:15 |
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open_sketchbook posted:There's so much interesting (which is to say, loving horrifying) stuff about atomic warfare, especially our attitudes towards it in the early Cold War, it really does deserve its own book.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:27 |
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inklesspen posted:I have myself been contemplating how to make an enjoyable Sailor Moon derived magical girl game, so I am eager to see what you come up with. The short form is that the entire premise is built around God, in the form a magic space alien, showing up to give Mami secret knowledge, which grants her incredible power. This power is in the form of a test - to see if Mami can keep it secret, and not reveal the divine truth to this world of flesh and earthly concerns, while also pursuing her dream (of being a famous idol singer, and also an adult). If Mami should ever reveal the truth of her power to anyone, she will lose it forever, as the uninitiated inherently taint the divine gnosis. Also, there's some trippy-rear end dreamscape sequences whenever Alien Space God comes up, and Mami unlocks new abilities through understanding the inner secrets of her nature and the nature of the world around her. Unrelated, I am now working on Gargoyle and Robot Kindred lineages.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:46 |
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Speaking of Sailor Moon themed games... coming soon to an F&F near you... The Starlit Kingdom (100% less likely to be abandoned than Witch Fated Souls writeup!)
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:49 |
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Hell yeah, cybered up terminator hunter Robert cop shall be a reality!
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 21:03 |
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Mors Rattus posted:The short form is that the entire premise is built around God, in the form a magic space alien, showing up to give Mami secret knowledge, which grants her incredible power. This power is in the form of a test - to see if Mami can keep it secret, and not reveal the divine truth to this world of flesh and earthly concerns, while also pursuing her dream (of being a famous idol singer, and also an adult). If Mami should ever reveal the truth of her power to anyone, she will lose it forever, as the uninitiated inherently taint the divine gnosis.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 21:17 |
Since we got the designer on the horn and a bunch of other people: Would it feasible to do a "Metal Gear" style campaign using Patrol's rules? I'm defining this as the baseline being in the muck and poo poo but the focus characters being cinematic people, if not sufficiently cinematic to entirely rise above the mud, even if they have weird mutant powers or the ability to eat mushrooms and recharge their radio batteries.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 21:57 |
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Isn't metal gear like 50% stealth and 999% insane cold war ramblings? I think that you need a significantly more anime type RPG then Patrol.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:03 |
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Gargoyles are complete, Robots not yet begun.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:21 |
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You could probably get the tone of Metal Gear but not the gameplay. Like if the game stopped so the players could discuss the M16 as the military-industrial complex suffering an overflow error where presence of anti-jamming features means that those features can be removed because jams won't happen.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:22 |
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I think the only metal gear game that would work even remotely with patrol is probably MGS4 since you are a dying old man constantly injecting drugs to keep going, while not really caring about what happens around him which would probably work well with the fatigue system. I'm not sure Patrol is the best system for playing old men beating the crap out of eachother on top of a broken submarine though.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:22 |
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I appreciate All Your Strengths because I could see using it as a game wherein you triumph over stereotypical WoD style gloom by being completely, totally comfortable with the kind of game you're playing and the PCs you are rather than being held back by going 'No really, Dr. Ghostraven is a very serious examination of what being half raven and half mutant medical doctor ghost would be!'
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:56 |
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All The Strengths knows exactly where it came from.quote:Now, vampires and werewolves have never gotten along terribly well, due largely to a
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:06 |
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Starfinger Core Rules Part #07: "Everybody on the Serenity has something to do on Firefly. Everybody on Star Trek has a job." (James Sutter, Starfinger Creative Director, Game Informer interview.) Skills! Are you excited? I'm faking being excited! Man, this is the best part of any book! It's not at all boring! If you're played d20, you'll know the drill for the most part. Characters in Starfinger can invest skill ranks in a skill up to their level, add their ability modifier, and if it's a class skill for them, they get +3 to their rolls with it. Almost every class gets (4 + Int modifier) for skills, multiplied by 4 for the 1st level, except for Mystics that get (6 + Int modifier), and Envoys and Operatives get (8 + Int Modifier). This is because the best educated people in society are priests, con artists, and thieves. You get all your basic features here - opposed skill checks, taking 10, taking 20, aid another, and then we get into specific mechanics. You can "Identify Creatures" with the Mysticism skill for magical creatures or Life Science for mundane-ish creatures. There's "Recall Knowledge" where you aim at an arbitrarily decided target number with any appropriate skill to know facts, but taking 20 requires a special information resource like a database or library (notable mainly because a number of class features let you ignore that requirement). This looked cool and then I realized "Hey, wait, they can't hit a guy ten feet away?" We've also got an issue here with the Difficulty Classes (DCs); some of them are based out off the Challenge Rating (CR) of an NPC you're targeting (or the Item Level of a device). For example: tumbling through a threatened area with Acrobatics, feinting a foe in combat with a Bluff, befriending somebody with Diplomacy, identifying or repairing an item with Engineering or Mysticism, or demoralizing a foe with Intimidation. And that can have issues where enemies end up being homogenous; a big dumb thug is as hard to feint as a canny mastermind of the same CR. But more than that, the DCs are based off (1.5 x CR), often something like "15 + (1.5 x CR)". Which means, presuming that the heroes are facing NPCs with CR equal to their character level (the norm), the DC increases faster than their ability to increase their bonus. This is subtle, but with "15 + (1.5 x CR)", the average maximized character will need a 8 or higher on a d20 to succeed at level 1 against CR 1, but a 13 or higher at level 20 against CR 20. That's a 25% increase in difficulty, meaning that you're less competent at high level than low levels. Now, to some extent this can be offset by equipment and classes which grant skill bonuses. (It's already presumed you're getting all the ability score boosts you can.) But when you need to get class bonuses in a skill (like the Operative does) just to keep up, something has gone wrong math-wise. The skill bonus from a class should make you better than the average, not just allow you to keep par. Mind, most skill rolls are thankfully still quite functional. But this will be getting even worse - to a game-breaking extent - when we get to the skill rolls involved with starships. I'd normally hold off on mentioning that since that's chapters ahead, but's infamous enough at this point to just establish right now. So the skills are very similar to Pathfinder, but let's go over them all once again:
And that's skills! It's nice to see them skim it down somewhat, but... there's still redundancy and a lot of charts most GMs will never touch, and the DCs are just utterly hosed in some cases. You'd think they'd understand the how math underpinning the d20 system functions after working with it for around a decade, but as the book goes on, it just doesn't seem like they understand their actual system inside and out like you'd expect. Hell, like I expected. I didn't think I'd be blown away, but I also didn't think I'd feel this disappointed. It's baffling. I can only guess that being at the top of the hill made them complacent. And, I suppose, why bother when most fans aren't likely to notice or care? It's too early for me to start drinking down buttermilk for bitterness, maybe the next section will be better, right? What's up next? Next: Feats for 'Finger. Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Oct 3, 2017 |
# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:51 |
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Isn't metal gear like 50% stealth and 999% insane cold war ramblings? I remember someone did an Adventure! mod to -play Metal Gear and barely had to change anything. Years ago though, so it's probably lost in the bowels of the web.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:59 |
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Nessus posted:Since we got the designer on the horn and a bunch of other people: Would it feasible to do a "Metal Gear" style campaign using Patrol's rules? I'm defining this as the baseline being in the muck and poo poo but the focus characters being cinematic people, if not sufficiently cinematic to entirely rise above the mud, even if they have weird mutant powers or the ability to eat mushrooms and recharge their radio batteries. Patrol appears to be loving great at this, actually, just not with the specific challenges of Metal Gear, as Hel pointed out. Let Thrones Beware is doing admirable work in this vein, but their game is still in development and is a fantasy game inspired by D&D 4e. If, if you're fine with a rules-lite version, Tactical Waifu is a Lasers & Feelings hack with Japanese schoolgirls doing Metal Gear. I haven't read it, but the game that specifically set out to do what you're asking for (as well as Hitman, Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex, Splinter Cell, and several others) is BLACK SEVEN.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:05 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:[*]Piloting: Science is divided up, and weapons require all sorts of profiencies, but if you know how to pilot one thing, you know them all. You can use this to shoot in lieu of a combat bonus (haha, gently caress you, combat classes... in space!), navigate around, or roll to make maneuvers or stunts. The more advanced a vehicle it is, the harder it is to pilot!... which also means the more expensive a vehicle it is, the worse it handles. Starfinger logic! (Well, at least the DC is just increased by the Item level, meaning you can actually get better at it.) Actually, if I'm reading this right, the italicized bit sounds like a surprisingly clever (by Pathfinder standards) bit of genre emulation. In most science fantasy settings I'm familiar with (most popular being of course Star Wars), most of the Rebel pilots we see are also decent shots. Plus it gives the combat classes a skill that makes them useful in ship combat, where you'd expect any melee fighter to be about as useful as a chocolate hammer.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:10 |
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:Actually, if I'm reading this right, the italicized bit sounds like a surprisingly clever (by Pathfinder standards) bit of genre emulation. In most science fantasy settings I'm familiar with (most popular being of course Star Wars), most of the Rebel pilots we see are also decent shots. Plus it gives the combat classes a skill that makes them useful in ship combat, where you'd expect any melee fighter to be about as useful as a chocolate hammer. That's the intent, definitely. The actual net effect is that because of that, the best pilots or drivers aren't Soldiers or Engineers or Solarians, but Envoys and Operators - classes that get more skill points and bonuses they can apply to being a pilot. At least until we get to full-scale spaceships, but that's going to be a mess for everybody involved.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:28 |
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Homebrew complete!quote:Gargoyles quote:Robots Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Oct 4, 2017 |
# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:29 |
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God I want to play as a Party Gargoyle so bad.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:39 |
Hel posted:I think the only metal gear game that would work even remotely with patrol is probably MGS4 since you are a dying old man constantly injecting drugs to keep going, while not really caring about what happens around him which would probably work well with the fatigue system. I'm not sure Patrol is the best system for playing old men beating the crap out of eachother on top of a broken submarine though.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:47 |
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Hello fellow vampires, I am PRINCE OF SPACE!!! All of Their Strengths is pure Stephen Brown Vampire the Masquerade as it was always meant to be. There's nothing wrong with play Vampire as Superheroes with Fangs; the problem is, the fanbase and the writing were held in tension between Personal Horror and Superheroes with Fangs because the mechanics were held in tension the same way. AoTS is a great irony: a more abstract, narrative system than Vampire ever was, but embracing the superheroic aspects of the genre Vampire created rather than the Romantic ones. I'm trying to think of the best games that tried to out-Lestat Vampire itself in focusing on the tragic personal horror. gently caress, it might be the rules-lite "Monster Garage" variant of Vampire: the Requiem in the Requiem Chronicler's Guide!
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:58 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:[*]Profession: Hahaha fuuuck whoever left this trap option in, seriously. I wish I could have an extra arm grafted on I would just to give however approved this a threesome of different rude gestures at once. Whoever you are, personally, stop it. Stop writing things like this. Stop it. All it does is let you earn pocket change between adventures. And I mean that - you're making like 5 to 30 or so credits a week in a game (no, it doesn't scale to your actual wealth level at all) in a game where the most basic 1st-level equipment will cost you hundreds. And if you think people don't put ranks in Profession, I was just talking to a new Starfinger player the other day that had maxed it out to fluff out his concept. Because it sounds good on paper, but is near-useless in play. Just my DM, but they've basically been running Profession as our 'one cool thing' because holy poo poo keeping up with skills is super hard.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:55 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:That's the intent, definitely. The actual net effect is that because of that, the best pilots or drivers aren't Soldiers or Engineers or Solarians, but Envoys and Operators - classes that get more skill points and bonuses they can apply to being a pilot. Isn't that also kinda genre accurate? Han Solo definitely isn't a Soldier or an Engineer. Not to say that Starfinder is a good game, but you're just being antagonistic here.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 02:44 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:
AC's too high. Verisimilitude. Anyway, my misgivings that Starfinger might possibly be tainted by Traveller in some way are proven false by this skill list. I don't even know what I'd have to roll on Profession to act as butler to richer space ship patrons than me.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 03:33 |
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Mors Rattus posted:Homebrew complete! Checks out.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 03:38 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 04:33 |
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It was pretty stone cold how he did that.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 04:42 |
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Sampatrick posted:Isn't that also kinda genre accurate? Han Solo definitely isn't a Soldier or an Engineer. Not to say that Starfinder is a good game, but you're just being antagonistic here. We'll, genre fiction, aside from that parts which are directly inspired by RPGs, generally doesn't care about slotting characters into neat roles. Is Luke an Engineer? He's good at fixing stuff and has a robot companion. He's a crack shot, so is he a Soldier (sharpshooter)? He talks to dead people and can see the future, is he a Mystic? He swings around a lightsaber and jumps like a rabbit, so Solarian seems essential. Rocket Raccoon is good at Engineering and makes his own weapons. But he's also great with weapons and is a skilled tactician, like a Soldier. But he's also a master of breaking in and out of places, like an Operative would be. Sure, Han was a great pilot, but so are Luke and Rocket. But I don't get the impression genre emulation is what Starfinger is fundamentally about. It's D&D with some genre trappings bolted on, and D&D was never great at emulating anything other than D&D. Starfinger's not a dedicated genre emulation RPG like Feng Shui, The One Ring, or Masks. And so it ends up on this uncomfortable place where basic genre character concepts like Dan Dare, a Soldier pilot, would be a substandard piloting build despite being "The Pilot of the Future!" So I'm not sure using "genre emulation" is a strong defense of Starfinger. It wants to eat its cake and still have it afterwards, to both use D&D's structure and to try and emulate Space Opera at the same time. But the two notions are fairly exclusive, and though you can hack and kitbash D&D to be more like a given genre, there will always be elements that are quintessentially D&D. Starfinger is a game that uses the familiar elements of D&D to be more approachable and marketable, but those elements - like classes - make it a failure as a genre RPG. It may seem unfair to both recognize that and judge it as a genre RPG, but I think recognizing the issues with that contradiction is a basic core criticism of the game. Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Oct 4, 2017 |
# ? Oct 4, 2017 12:05 |
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But what genre is D&D exactly? I mean, we know it´s not Conan, because Howards stories speak of an intelligent rogue who wielded a two-handed sword and was called barbarian due to his enemies being "civilized" snake people. It´s not Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, because magic there isn´t ubiqoutus or easy to master, comes with its spoils of danger and rests on the idea that a clever strongman and his wily rogueish friend survive more often by luck and friends than anything else (which it doesn´t model either). I mean, if we really get down to it...what exactly does DnD model, other than wargaming extended into "free-play" segments where the worth of the characters is no higher than that of other miniatures on the field (as modeled by building NPCs and enemies by almost the same rules as pcs)?
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 12:12 |
What D&D models at this point is D&D.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 12:20 |
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So ARB, you doing spells after feats? I need to know what class to play if I want to use the titular StarFinger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B69_-ouSvio
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 12:23 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:But I don't get the impression genre emulation is what Starfinger is fundamentally about. Which is funny because there's always someone blogging out about to recreate [Insert Currently Popular Genre Chracter Here] in Pathfinder
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 12:32 |
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D&D makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a single-unit miniatures wargame born of Napoleonics and heavily influenced by pulp fantasy. Stuff like roleplaying and storytelling came out of it, but it was not originally designed around those elements, nor was genre emulation a particular concern. Fantastic elements were mashed on because they seemed interesting or cool, but with no real unified setting or tone. And so D&D is uniquely what it is, a melange of fantastic and mythical ideas mashed together, but not with any real unifying structure other than what later authors tried to impose on it.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 12:48 |
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Would you believe I actually looked right past your post when I was looking to make sure nobody else made that joke?
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 13:05 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:And so D&D is uniquely what it is, a melange of fantastic and mythical ideas mashed together, but not with any real unifying structure other than what later authors tried to impose on it. You can see this especially in some of the development blogs for D&D 4E, which IMO did try to build in some elements of genre emulation into its rules (that genre being basically "the action scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies," but still), only to hit pushback on points like "wizards still need their ten million utility spells that do everything" and "fighters should have fewer skills than other classes."
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 13:24 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:D&D makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a single-unit miniatures wargame born of Napoleonics and heavily influenced by pulp fantasy. Stuff like roleplaying and storytelling came out of it, but it was not originally designed around those elements, nor was genre emulation a particular concern. Fantastic elements were mashed on because they seemed interesting or cool, but with no real unified setting or tone.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 13:39 |
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Cassa posted:Just my DM, but they've basically been running Profession as our 'one cool thing' because holy poo poo keeping up with skills is super hard. Yeah, a lot of folks run it that way, and it's a decent fix. gradenko_2000 posted:Which is funny because there's always someone blogging out about to recreate [Insert Currently Popular Genre Chracter Here] in Pathfinder And that's fine, the thing just is if you do Conan in D&D, it's not going to be Conan, its going to be Conan in D&D. The old Lankhmar supplements for AD&D so a decent job at hacking the game to simulate the setting (being a magic- user suuucks in it, for example) but it's still ultimately just Lankhmar-flavored D&D5
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 13:41 |
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# ? Jan 15, 2025 15:16 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:Would you believe I actually looked right past your post when I was looking to make sure nobody else made that joke? Not like I have a monopoly on low hanging jokes anyway. But I'm pretty sure that Coldstone would be a Robot Gargoyle Frankenstein.
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# ? Oct 4, 2017 13:45 |