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When you play games with other people you have to accept the social contract from the outset, which includes things like 'actions have consequences' - in fact, this is one of the core rules of every MUSH I've played on, because the games are so heavily based in player consent that you need to have something there to go 'but you can't just refuse to consent to the consquences of your actions.' If you are unwilling to accept that social contracts exist or that people expect your actions to have consequences, I suggest finding a group that will accept your version of the social contract rather than just going on about ideaspace and postmodernism. You clearly don't have experience with MUSHing, so to sum up: this isn't about being too silly and playful, it is about breaking the accepted social contract and being an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:11
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The reason I brought up Princess is not because of grimdark, but more on the tendency to heavily define the magical girl condition like an entry from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. This is very true, in a game about Magical Girls, I'd just accept very general answers with very little in the way of a deep explanation, and some questions just left alone and played as it works best for each group. As entertaining as Jojo's Bizarre Adventure style over-explanation of a power can be, too much detail can really bog things down. Count Chocula posted:In a silly cartoon universe, you can have people changing forms constantly. Like in Looney Tunes or Plastic Man. And 'consistency' is only forced on us because we live in a physical world. If you're just making stuff up in a MUD or bullshitting in a game with friends, why wouldn't you change things around? The major issue with the MUDs thing is that no one else is playing that way it seems, there's nothing inherently wrong with playing an RP out with low continuity, as long as everyone else is playing along. It's less a matter of "she ignores the previous session in RP!" and more that she's playing an entirely different game and refuses to clue in, or play in a fitting way to the rest of the group. edit: Welp, beaten to it in a much clearer way! SpookBus fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 23:11
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Count Chocula posted:Sure, but they still exist in Ideaspace. 'Actions' only have 'consequences' because we're forced to obey the rules of a physical world. In the imaginative world we can ignore or suspend that rule. But so many RPGs seem to go in the opposite direction, adding MORE rules, until you get things like TORG turning what should be a post-modern play of genres into a mesh of interlocking systems, or that magical girl game turning stylistic choices from cartoons into rules. You are drastically misunderstanding the point. This has nothing to do with rules. If your character attacks mine in one scene, then turns around and wants to act like nothing bad happened in the next, and your character isn't explicitly possessed or has multiple personalities or something, then you shouldn't act confused or upset if I decide that my character isn't going to want to hang out with someone who tried to hurt them. This has nothing to do with mechanics or lack thereof and I have no earthly idea what point you're trying to argue.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:13
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do you know what else is forced on us in a physical world Bad Posting e: postmodernism means whatever we want it to mean 
Ningyou fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 23:26
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and the same goes for tabletop games unless they're specifically designated as one-shots. It's a bit like watching a production of MacBeth, and having Duncan walk back in to join his son in battle without anyone asking why the dead guy is back. Unless stated otherwise, when you got a persistent setting - and you play by the rules and actions, cause and effect is expected unless *otherwise explicitly stated*. So in this case, if I was Circe, I wouldn't be playing chess with the girl who nearly killed me by turning me into a cigarette. And that's the huge problem with Lucinda's characterization, she does horrific things on a daily basis, but everyone doesn't remember or forgives her too easily with no good reason. I'm pretty sure Post-Modernism doesn't mean "Actions have no consequences whatsoever" Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 23:27
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And the reason I even brought up the MUD/Mush thing is because Lucinda is in fact Abby Soto's own character she plays in those (as if the transforming and smoking don't make that obvious enough) and so this plus her attitude regarding persistent characterization and consequences helps explain why WGA Lucinda gets to do all this horrible poo poo and everyone still wants to hang out with her, because that's how Abby Soto thinks RPGs work.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:35
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To forcibly bring this back on the rails, how is this sort of thing handled in TOON? In fact has anyone ever done a writeup or anything for Toon? It seems from what I remember to have had interesting precursors of some of the things like FATE, as well as being ridiculous for being a game in which you were all cartoon characters.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:43
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Nessus posted:To forcibly bring this back on the rails, how is this sort of thing handled in TOON? In fact has anyone ever done a writeup or anything for Toon? It seems from what I remember to have had interesting precursors of some of the things like FATE, as well as being ridiculous for being a game in which you were all cartoon characters. iirc, no one dies in TOON - they just 'fall down' until the next scene, and it's explicitly treated as exaggerated non-lethal violence, the problem with WGA is it tries for the cartoon-y feel, but makes note people do go insane or die because of the actions.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:45
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I can't believe I'm actually typing this, but would smoking Circe actually kill her? I'm assuming that the mundanes are ash, but her reaction to returning to human form with her hips turned into one of RPGpundit's siglines seems more 'ugh! you little bitch!' than 'OH MY GOD WHERE'S THE REST OF ME?!' The chessboard thing is probably just a cheap metaphor for carefully crafted antagonism, made cheaper by the fact there's clearly nothing careful about it.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:51
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Robindaybird posted:iirc, no one dies in TOON - they just 'fall down' until the next scene, and it's explicitly treated as exaggerated non-lethal violence, the problem with WGA is it tries for the cartoon-y feel, but makes note people do go insane or die because of the actions. Also Toon doesn't reek of being someone's fetishbait.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:04
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Robindaybird posted:iirc, no one dies in TOON - they just 'fall down' until the next scene, and it's explicitly treated as exaggerated non-lethal violence, the problem with WGA is it tries for the cartoon-y feel, but makes note people do go insane or die because of the actions.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:05
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I remember a player on a Marvel Comics MUSH that was like that, she'd do insanely questionable poo poo and then next scene would be like "well I'm evil why don't you just accept that" like it was just a natural condition and not, say, abuse. She'd throw terrible tantrums if you called her out on it, and was kind of obsessed with murder and transformation and- huh. Nahhh. 
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Mar 8, 2016 00:34
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Mors Rattus posted:You know what I want out of earnest magical girls? Fuckin' court politics. I'd imagine it's so you can have magical girl vs magical girl brawls without making either side evil or genuinely wrong. From my [extremely] limited understanding of the genre, it's fairly typical for two to come into conflict over a guy or how to solve a particular problem, level half a city block in the battle, and go out for ice cream.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:41
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You don't actually see that many brawls. Fights, yeah, but they tend to involve more shouting and glaring and swearing never to speak to each other again. Then we learn a Valuable Lesson about Friendship and they get back together. Violence is usually reserved for actual enemies.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:43
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I remember a player on a Marvel Comics MUSH that was like that, she'd do insanely questionable poo poo and then next scene would be like "well I'm evil why don't you just accept that" like it was just a natural condition and not, say, abuse. She'd throw terrible tantrums if you called her out on it, and was kind of obsessed with murder and transformation and- huh. Sounds like how the X-Men treat Magneto, minus the transformations (that's more Mr Sinister).
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Mar 8, 2016 00:47
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WERE THEY RIGHT? Lucinda: no Magneto: yes I rest my case.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:53
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I remember a player on a Marvel Comics MUSH that was like that, she'd do insanely questionable poo poo and then next scene would be like "well I'm evil why don't you just accept that" like it was just a natural condition and not, say, abuse. She'd throw terrible tantrums if you called her out on it, and was kind of obsessed with murder and transformation and- huh. Nahhh is probably right. I've met a small handful of people that fit that description in various RPG circles over time. I'm really wishing I hadn't, actually.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:54
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I remember a player on a Marvel Comics MUSH that was like that, she'd do insanely questionable poo poo and then next scene would be like "well I'm evil why don't you just accept that" like it was just a natural condition and not, say, abuse. She'd throw terrible tantrums if you called her out on it, and was kind of obsessed with murder and transformation and- huh. I have a friend who's still active in MUSH roleplay circles, and she always described people like that as not looking at the game as "we are all in this story", but as "you are in my story". They tend to end up getting serially banned from various communities because they just end up pissing everyone else off.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:57
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Count Chocula posted:Sounds like how the X-Men treat Magneto, minus the transformations (that's more Mr Sinister). Well, Magneto is more a victim of duelling writers than anything else, so expecting him to remain consistent when he's constantly being de-aged, re-aged, cloned, driven mad, impersonated, mind controlled, or just plain hopped up on sentient drugs is a bit much. A character with over forty years of comics with wildly varying quality is a slightly different situation.
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Mar 8, 2016 01:03
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senrath posted:Nahhh is probably right. I've met a small handful of people that fit that description in various RPG circles over time. I'm really wishing I hadn't, actually. Likewise, I can think of a few different people I've met in MU* that fit that kink and behavior.
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Mar 8, 2016 01:05
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, Magneto is more a victim of duelling writers than anything else, so expecting him to remain consistent when he's constantly being de-aged, re-aged, cloned, driven mad, impersonated, mind controlled, or just plain hopped up on sentient drugs is a bit much. A character with over forty years of comics with wildly varying quality is a slightly different situation. God help us if Soto and Claremont ever teamed up.
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Mar 8, 2016 01:08
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Bieeardo posted:I can't believe I'm actually typing this, but would smoking Circe actually kill her? I'm assuming that the mundanes are ash, but her reaction to returning to human form with her hips turned into one of RPGpundit's siglines seems more 'ugh! you little bitch!' than 'OH MY GOD WHERE'S THE REST OF ME?!' I'm not going back to check.
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Mar 8, 2016 04:54
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, Magneto is more a victim of duelling writers than anything else, so expecting him to remain consistent when he's constantly being de-aged, re-aged, cloned, driven mad, impersonated, mind controlled, or just plain hopped up on sentient drugs is a bit much. A character with over forty years of comics with wildly varying quality is a slightly different situation. I specifically meant how he'll try and kill the X-Men, then play an ominous game of chess vs Xavier a few hours later.!
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Mar 8, 2016 05:00
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Time for some of that Afterthought, people. This is the one where we answer the real question, the question that's only been answered by every roleplaying game ever made: What is a roleplaying game?
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Mar 8, 2016 05:10
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I have a bad habit of constantly buying new rpgs despite not having played most of them, so rather than just let them collect dust, I thought I'd review some that I find interesting. Fantaji Universal RPG Part 1: Background and Basic Overview Originally called Mazaki no Fantaji, Anthropos Games ran a Kickstarter for their game they described as: quote:A cinematic Tabletop RPG inspired by the most gripping JRPGs and rowdy anime, using qualitative stats and a unique, tile-based system. It only raised about half of the $16,000 they wanted. So they changed the name to just Fantaji, billed it as more of a universal system than they had before, and lowered to the goal to just $3,400. This time the Kickstarter was successful. So, how is the game? Well, let's let Anthropos Games explain it: quote:The system is crazy versatile, yes, but how so? Glad you asked! Players "play to" qualitative character Traits and shared Themes to add dice to their pool, banking small successes on early turns to build "Drama" that carries over to future rolls. When you feel like making an attack, you add up your Drama and play to more Traits and Themes to roll against your opponent. The defender does the same, and high numbers win. Every die of mine that beats your highest counts as a success. Try to ignore that last part, the game has an annoying tendency to act like it is going to blow your mind and that it is, in their words, the “best kept secret in the biggest gaming and anime conventions”. But once you get past the irritating attempts to get you to buy the book (which for some reason continue while you are actually reading the book), the Fantaji system itself is actually kinda cool, and can handle a large variety of situations. Also interesting is how everything is built around four types of "tiles": Character tiles, for the PC's and any recurring nemesis; Obstacles, for everything that gets in the way of the PC's, whether that's mooks, dragons, a locked door, or trying to land on a jet while free-falling; Themes, which cover the overall mood of the story during a specific scene; and Conditions, which are narrative facts that can be used to "trip up" an opponent, or could be used against the players. In the next part, I'll go through the introduction of the book, and explain a bit more of how this system actually works.
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Mar 8, 2016 05:17
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Bieeardo posted:I can't believe I'm actually typing this, but would smoking Circe actually kill her? I'm assuming that the mundanes are ash, but her reaction to returning to human form with her hips turned into one of RPGpundit's siglines seems more 'ugh! you little bitch!' than 'OH MY GOD WHERE'S THE REST OF ME?!' Well, the Abby Soto game Bellum Maga has actual rules for what happens when you turn someone into a cigarette and smoke them, if you're really curious...
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Mar 8, 2016 05:19
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Adnachiel posted:
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Mar 8, 2016 05:20
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Hostile V posted:I know you're explicitly saying "not involving magic" for craft/repair but now I'm just imagining someone lawyering the definition of "craft" or "repair" to do something like fix an injured pet or in fact build a new dog or something outlandish and intentionally silly. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if WGA had bizarrely specific rules rules for Cronenberg-ing something.
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Mar 8, 2016 05:25
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Barudak posted:At this point I wouldn't be surprised if WGA had bizarrely specific rules rules for Cronenberg-ing something. That would require self-awareness.
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Mar 8, 2016 05:29
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Barudak posted:At this point I wouldn't be surprised if WGA had bizarrely specific rules rules for Cronenberg-ing something. It would be weirder if it didn't. Man I'm glad to hear the version we reviewed has been quietly scoured off the internet. It was weirdly light on Lucinda being a horrorshow of someone's half-closeted fetishes.
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Mar 8, 2016 05:31
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Evil Mastermind posted:
I love this.
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Mar 8, 2016 05:56
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Cythereal posted:I'd imagine it's so you can have magical girl vs magical girl brawls without making either side evil or genuinely wrong. From my [extremely] limited understanding of the genre, it's fairly typical for two to come into conflict over a guy or how to solve a particular problem, level half a city block in the battle, and go out for ice cream. They don't really do that unless one of them is actually evil at that point. Or at least mind-controlled. Or guarding space-time. (Maybe except for Madoka again, but those cases mostly involve girls that are either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil. Or one of them is introduced as a psychopath before it turns out she is just obsessed with food.) And the correct answer to how magical girls resolve their arguments is not "Star Wars prequel senate stuff", but either "karaoke", "dance-off" or "spell that applies fighting game rules to the area".
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Mar 8, 2016 05:59
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Oh neat, a Fantaji review. I like the system a lot; it follows a lot of the mindset that FATE is built on, but in a way that reads a lot more satisfying to me mechanically. But no one really knows the game so I haven't tried it out myself. 
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Mar 8, 2016 06:37
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TurninTrix posted:Oh neat, a Fantaji review. I have literally never heard of this game until now so I'm actually interested to see where this goes, hyperbolic self-promotion aside.
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Mar 8, 2016 06:39
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Astus posted:
I think they do the advertising pitch in the beginning of the book because you see those pages in the quick and full preview on DTRPG.
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Mar 8, 2016 07:26
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Covok posted:I think they do the advertising pitch in the beginning of the book because you see those pages in the quick and full preview on DTRPG. I'll mention it in the next part, but I am completely fine with that advertisement pitch, especially since they outright say it is there to sell you on the book. But that isn't going to be the last time they try to sell you on how great Fantaji is. There is a sidebar on page 68, which is not in the preview, that is still written as an advertisement, and actually ends with them saying "Wow." as if this game is just completely mind-blowing. Anthropos Games do not understand how to get people to buy their product.
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Mar 8, 2016 07:44
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Astus posted:I'll mention it in the next part, but I am completely fine with that advertisement pitch, especially since they outright say it is there to sell you on the book. But that isn't going to be the last time they try to sell you on how great Fantaji is. There is a sidebar on page 68, which is not in the preview, that is still written as an advertisement, and actually ends with them saying "Wow." as if this game is just completely mind-blowing. Maybe they thought this would get people who flip through it on a bookshelf to buy it. I feel stupider having said that even though I might be right. Anyway, I've had this book sitting on my hard drive for a while. Been interested in it, but never got around to reading it.
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Mar 8, 2016 07:46
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Mors Rattus posted:You don't actually see that many brawls. Fights, yeah, but they tend to involve more shouting and glaring and swearing never to speak to each other again. Then we learn a Valuable Lesson about Friendship and they get back together. Violence is usually reserved for actual enemies. Except for, say, the second season of Nanoha.
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Mar 8, 2016 08:27
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Kai Tave posted:And the reason I even brought up the MUD/Mush thing is because Lucinda is in fact Abby Soto's own character she plays in those (as if the transforming and smoking don't make that obvious enough) and so this plus her attitude regarding persistent characterization and consequences helps explain why WGA Lucinda gets to do all this horrible poo poo and everyone still wants to hang out with her, because that's how Abby Soto thinks RPGs work. I guess she's an ERP dominatrix?  I seem to recall her attitude being that if your character argues with hers, that's because you want to play out an argument. If you don't think that's fun to play, don't play it, don't be forced to play it by "consequences". Which is.. Well, odd. Wonder if she ever played Second Life.. She'd probably explode.. By the way, I thought Book of Shadows was officially cancelled and replaced with "Respelled and a bunch of supplements that cover the stuff that was going to be in one huge book."
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Mar 8, 2016 11:38
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theironjef posted:Time for some of that Afterthought, people. This is the one where we answer the real question, the question that's only been answered by every roleplaying game ever made: What is a roleplaying game? P.B. Crisps. We are aligned. Man, bringing up that topic made me think my question was going to be addressed, but I'm guessing jef isn't checking his PMs. I mean, that's what's happening, right? 
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Mar 8, 2016 12:46
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