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Yeah the Tau have good tech that they understand. But they are still pretty new and don't have better stuff then everyone. They are still surpassed by other species in many ways.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:51
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Imperials understand computers just fine, they just refuse to use any of them that aren't spending significant percentages of their resources singing the right kind of hymns.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:52
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wiegieman posted:Imperials understand computers just fine, they just refuse to use any of them that aren't spending significant percentages of their resources singing the right kind of hymns. I had no idea WH40k and Ar tonelico had so much in common!
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Apr 13, 2018 22:53
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Leraika posted:I had no idea WH40k and Ar tonelico had so much in common! Computers who were the equivalent of the guy who stays seated in church when everyone else is standing up and singing once tried to kill literally everyone everywhere.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:55
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah the Tau have good tech that they understand. But they are still pretty new and don't have better stuff then everyone. They are still surpassed by other species in many ways. And the Imperium can on occasion pull out technology that makes the Tau look like stone age barbarians all over again. The Tau do have auxiliary races who have psykers who can navigate the Warp, but the Tau Empire in general refuses to research the Warp because, well, it's an insane hell dimension that wants to eat you. They regard the Imperium as batshit insane for being willing to deal with the Warp on a regular basis. Bear in mind that the Tau believe the Chaos god Slaanesh is dead because they killed a Chaos Lord who had proclaimed himself the avatar of Slaanesh.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:55
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There is one thing the AdMech knows for sure and it is 'Abominable Intelligence was a major part of blowing up the mythic technological golden age we loved'.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:56
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Night10194 posted:There is one thing the AdMech knows for sure and it is 'Abominable Intelligence was a major part of blowing up the mythic technological golden age we loved'. A legit Men of Iron ship showed up in one of the audio novels. The AdMech is goddamn right to be terrified of them.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:58
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Night10194 posted:There is one thing the AdMech knows for sure and it is 'Abominable Intelligence was a major part of blowing up the mythic technological golden age we loved'. Not that some AdMech dudes care. Archmagos Cawl for sure has created many AI's based on his own brain. (But the AI's and Cawl claim they are simply advanced servitors.)
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Apr 13, 2018 23:16
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Sorry I am not up on the lingo. What is an AdMech? Sounds like a Mechwarrior Wildcat crossed with NASCAR.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:22
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Cythereal posted:A legit Men of Iron ship showed up in one of the audio novels. The AdMech is goddamn right to be terrified of them. And as bad as they were, with their spaceships that could blow up suns and swarms of nanites that can strip planets clean much faster than Tyranids, they still lost.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:23
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marshmallow creep posted:Sorry I am not up on the lingo. What is an AdMech? Sounds like a Mechwarrior Wildcat crossed with NASCAR. Adeptus Mechanicus. Where all the techpriests and all that come from.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:24
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marshmallow creep posted:Sorry I am not up on the lingo. What is an AdMech? Sounds like a Mechwarrior Wildcat crossed with NASCAR. Adeptus Mechanicus, the techpriests of Mars. The guys who are so important they get away with following a completely different religion focused around the Quest for Knowledge and the idea that the Dark Age of Technology was humanity's golden age.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:25
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White Coke posted:And as bad as they were, with their spaceships that could blow up suns and swarms of nanites that can strip planets clean much faster than Tyranids, they still lost. And how they rewrote physics when they ate information. Not books or word documents or whatever, raw physical information about the cosmos.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:25
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marshmallow creep posted:Sorry I am not up on the lingo. What is an AdMech? Sounds like a Mechwarrior Wildcat crossed with NASCAR. Adeptus Mechanicus. The people in charge of all the tech in the Imperium.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:25
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Night10194 posted:The Tau don't have Navigators and can't go directly into the Warp because they don't even have pyskers. They're stuck using a really inefficient computerized solution and kind of grabbing warp currents instead of entering it period. They don't really get lost, mind, but they're much, much slower than anyone else. Their big space battleship building is in its infancy, too, and most of them are converted mass conveyors or colony vessels strapped with enormous numbers of smart missiles. Missiles well beyond what others build because the Tau are the only people in the setting with good computers they actually understand, still. Right I forgot Tau's baller torpedoes that get to turn or whatever, those are pretty much the only thing their own ships have going for them. Now the Kroot Warsphere and Demiurg battleship, those things are as terrifying as they are hilariously expensive and the Demiurg one has to be balanced by basically Necron-ing the gently caress out when it gets crippled unless they're fighting Orks because the Tau aren't paying them enough to die. e: Demiurg are, of course, better known as Squats. Feinne fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 23:26
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Night10194 posted:Adeptus Mechanicus, the techpriests of Mars. The guys who are so important they get away with following a completely different religion focused around the Quest for Knowledge and the idea that the Dark Age of Technology was humanity's golden age. AND THEY TOTALLY DON'T WORSHIP A C'TAN I mean it's the God-Emperor just with cogs.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:53
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I feel like the real advantage the Tau have is 'Allies, literally any allies whatsoever' Which coincidentally is what let the fantasy Warhams beat the hell out of Chaos IIRC
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Apr 14, 2018 00:55
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Joe Slowboat posted:I feel like the real advantage the Tau have is 'Allies, literally any allies whatsoever' Very much so.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:57
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Night10194 posted:Which begs the question, why the gently caress would you ever take your totally-irreplaceable and incredibly expensive Navigator down to a planet with a flak vest and a laspistol and get them shot at by space bugs? So you can keep an eye on the rear end in a top hat, obviously! Rule 1 of Rogue Trading: Trust nobody.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:08
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The Lone Badger posted:So you can keep an eye on the rear end in a top hat, obviously! Rule 1 of Rogue Trading: Trust nobody. And conceivably it's your best way to communicate with your ship, I think is also some reasoning.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:19
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The Astropath, sure, but the Navigator?
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Apr 14, 2018 01:22
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Obviously, it's to keep Ferrus dan Buellerophon from hotrodding your space-cathedral anywhere he wants to go while Dad's down on the planet.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:23
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Pieces of Peace posted:Obviously, it's to keep Ferrus dan Buellerophon from hotrodding your space-cathedral anywhere he wants to go while Dad's down on the planet. Relax man, we'll just fly the cruiser home backwards and he'll never know the difference!
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Apr 14, 2018 03:07
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Really the more I read it closely for the review the more I'm convinced RT is a pile of bolted on, complicated subsystems that have very little actual player input or real content.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:11
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The Tau would make sense to use tons of drones and missiles in space combat. One of their numerous weaknesses in that area is that they don't have much experience in the way of grand-scale warfare and ridiculous superweapons; there's a bit in the surprisingly good Fire Warrior novel where it takes a while for the Tau protagonist to realise what he's looking at when he sees an Imperial Titan, because it's such an utterly ridiculous and impractical weapon from his perspective. (this before the Tau started building proper Gundams) Of course, it remains to be seen whether they stay that way; a logical progression might be for them to start making use of carrier type ships and maybe drone fighters as well as the self-guiding missiles. Tau are loosely based on modern-day real-life humans in their warfare and aesthetics; practical camouflage and highly mobile warfare, emphasis on fighting smarter and not taking unnecessary losses. IIRC they really don't like to have to fight defensive and hate sieges, when a position is at risk of being overrun they prefer to retreat and retake it later rather than fight on the defensive, to a sometimes irrational degree. (Strongly contrasting the Imperium's typical ludicrous stubbornness and willingness to sacrifice the only resource they have in excess; human life) Being poo poo at melee combat probably doesn't help that attitude, given how willing so many of their foes are to get into melee and extremely good at it. (especially the Orks and Tyranids, you sure as gently caress don't let Tyranids get any closer than the maximum range of your guns if you can help it)
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Apr 14, 2018 03:15
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The Tau did get a new fleet of vehicles from Forgeworld, which is fitting for them because they're the ones that are always creating new and better tech. Forgeworld also ended up giving them Titan equivalents, which is hilarious because the Tau were originally skeptical of large land units, thinking they were a waste of resources and instead using their air support to take them out.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:18
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Night10194 posted:Really the more I read it closely for the review the more I'm convinced RT is a pile of bolted on, complicated subsystems that have very little actual player input or real content. And I was playing the Navigator.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:19
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:And I was playing the Navigator. My Navigator player was the first to eventually approach me and go 'Hey, so, it's been kinda fun but can we go back to Dark Heresy, I want to be a rad flamethrower nun again or a crazy wizard.'
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Apr 14, 2018 03:23
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Night10194 posted:My Navigator player was the first to eventually approach me and go 'Hey, so, it's been kinda fun but can we go back to Dark Heresy, I want to be a rad flamethrower nun again or a crazy wizard.'
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Apr 14, 2018 03:26
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The Imperium also had Manta equivalents, and still does have some in mothballs. They were largely retired from service at the beginning of the Great Crusade for being hangar queens that were ridiculously expensive and time-consuming to make and maintain. The Thunderhawk was the replacement, much smaller, much cheaper, and able to be mass produced with ease.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:30
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White Coke posted:The Tau did get a new fleet of vehicles from Forgeworld, which is fitting for them because they're the ones that are always creating new and better tech. Forgeworld also ended up giving them Titan equivalents, which is hilarious because the Tau were originally skeptical of large land units, thinking they were a waste of resources and instead using their air support to take them out. The fluff reason was that air support started to be too expensive and needed in other areas, rather then blowing up titans. Pretty much they needed the air support in the air and they were too valuable to be potentially be shot down on a bombing run of a titan. Pretty much while using air ships with powerful guns to take out Titans is the best solution, they need those ships to fight the powerful Imperial Navy and those ships were too valuable to lose to destroy a Titan. And they lack the infrastructure as a result of their comparatively small size to the Imperium to have enough ships to both defeat the Imperial Navy reliably and have ships to spare that have the armaments to take out Titans. Ultimately Deciding the best way to deal with the Titan problem after a while, what with Tyranid and Ork style Titans coming in as well. That they just needed something big and shooty and could withstand being shot back at. They were largely created mainly as Titan Hunters, but were useful in other ways in case a Titan did not show up. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 03:37
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We solved the “Navigation is hell of boring” problem by having everyone run a bridge character and an away team character. (I ended up getting into the game late and playing the Archmilitant and the Void Master,  .) It worked okay but Navigation checks were easily the worst part of the game, especially because we were using the Navis Primer version. Play ground to a halt while one player made a series of rolls to determine exactly how hosed we were, every time.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:37
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It is heartening to get confirmation that the Rogue Trader rules really are the malign bullshit they seemed to be, and it wasn’t just me misunderstanding something basic.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:45
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One of the example RTs stole a Warlord class Titan and stuck it on his ship as a hood ornament. Never uses it for anything else. Just has it there to say he has it. Trask is a weird man. He's also the guy on the cover. E: I should really call this review 'No, it wasn't you: Rogue Trader is just kind of a poo poo game.' Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 03:46
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Kind of a deal given the Imperium's problem is most of their big fancy superweapons are increasingly rare and lost technology; Baneblades used to be light (or medium) battle tanks compared to models now lost and forgotten, and many Titans can only be produced on rare Forge Worlds that still have the facilities, tooling and know-how. (the Space Marine game was set on one of these worlds under Ork invasion that would have brought down Exterminatus if it wasn't too valuable to lose) Even their more practical stuff like carrier vessels being too resource-intensive to use isn't surprising, given everything eventually degrades into a rare, valuable, unreliable superweapon. On the other hand, the Tau are improving their technology and logistics, as well as their tactics and strategy, and producing new weapons and armaments to fulfil battlefield niches, so it makes sense for them to change their approach over time, even if they still have their core strengths.
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Apr 14, 2018 05:40
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One interesting thing is that the one area the Imperium canonically isn't stagnant in and falling behind in is shipbuilding. They're constantly experimenting with new hulls and concepts for starships, which, when they don't work out to the Navy's tastes, get sold off to Rogue Traders. In Battlefleet Koronus, a lot of your ship types are lovely prototypes and failed superweapons you bought on the second hand market. Or ships like the highly practical Claymore Corvette, which is a totally solid convoy/defense escort but which has a reputation as cheap and glory-less for its captains, and so they sell them off to system defense fleets or RTs who need something to protect their transport as soon as the war they're built for is over.
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Apr 14, 2018 05:53
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I like the Clipper from that book. It goes fast. There's no profit in expending ammunition and taking damage you'll have to pay to fix, so just leave your foes behind and go make some more profit using your expansive cargo hold.
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Apr 14, 2018 06:11
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Some news about the Tau. From reading through a bit of the new codex for them. They seemed to have gone more back towards their old tone. Being the naive newcomers who think everything would be better under their control, but having no idea of how big everything else is. The Ethereal's are still a tad shady in some areas, but they are largely all for peaceful co existence with the races they absorb and don't mistreat them. They are still a conquering Empire who will fight you if you don't agree to join them but that was always part of them. (Though they do offer many chances even after lots of fighting. It took years until the Ethereals decided that the greater good would be better off without the Orks.) And what they offer to the Humans is way better then the Imperium. No mention of stuff like Sterilizing populations. The book points out that the Tau are spread thin in lots of areas and need all the warriors they can get and humans tend to be all aboard for that stuff and join the Tau military pretty often. They also tend to have no issues with how their auxiliary races continue their culture, mainly hoping that the influences and exposure of their own culture will eventually cause them to act more like them. For examples the Kroot are allowed to continue their cannibalism despite the Tau finding it distasteful, and the Humans are still allowed to worship the Emperor, despite the Tau viewing it as pointless. But hope that eventually through expose to the Greater Good and Tau culture they will move beyond that on their own. (It so far has worked better on humans then Kroot.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 06:18
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I kinda want to play a game of Water Caste. You've been sent out beyond the borders of the Tau empire in a captured Imperial voidship to desperately try and find some people who want to be friends. Why does no-one want to be friends?
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Apr 14, 2018 06:38
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So how do the Tau handle the whole psyker issue?
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Apr 14, 2018 07:23
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