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Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013



Young Freud posted:

River piracy was laughably minor in comparison and Mediterranean piracy was more an extension of "War of Civilizations" between Christian Europe vs. Muslim Ottomans.

Is river piracy a weird way to say vikings, something to do with mega rivers like the Congo/Amazon that connect places as widely set apart as Mediterranean, or something much less interesting than either of those two?

As for Mediterranean piracy it could make for a good game, but you'd need to go back further, much further. No Christians yet because the golden age of Mediterranean piracy was during the Iron Age before the fall of Carthage.

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Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

Terrible Opinions posted:

Is river piracy a weird way to say vikings, something to do with mega rivers like the Congo/Amazon that connect places as widely set apart as Mediterranean, or something much less interesting than either of those two?

River piracy is a wierd way of saying Chinese bronze-age river piracy. Because clearly what I am expecting in a game of swashbuckling adventure set in the middle of the Age of Sail with art of western pirates with tricornes everywhere is goddamn bronze-age Chinese river piracy.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Terrible Opinions posted:

Is river piracy a weird way to say vikings, something to do with mega rivers like the Congo/Amazon that connect places as widely set apart as Mediterranean, or something much less interesting than either of those two?

Wick's response to people pointing out that a game called 7th Sea which drew ostensible inspiration from the Age of Sail contained very little to no venues for sailing or piracy threw Chinese river piracy in their faces like the world's smuggest idiot.

e;fb

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.
Much like L5R, 7th Sea is set in a fantasy land inspired by a fascinating real-world circumstance and time period that uses absolutely none of what made its period/inspiration fascinating.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Wait, what did Lot5R miss? Sengoku Jidai warfare?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.
Being anything like actual Feudal Japan? Or like a Kurosawa movie? Either would've been better.

Also having every Scorpion knifed.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Night10194 posted:

Being anything like actual Feudal Japan? Or like a Kurosawa movie? Either would've been better.

Also having every Scorpion knifed.

Ah, I read that adventure (Do more of those, I want Wickhate) and assumed it was doing the "courtly politics and duels" side of things. Didn't know it was that inaccurate.

Did Wick have a pet faction in 7th Sea?

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Kavak posted:

Did Wick have a pet faction in 7th Sea?
Not really - he didn't do much with the card game and left AEG after only contributing to one or two RPG books after the core.

I think the immortal not-Cuchulain iconic character of the not-Irish civilization is the closest 7S has to a self-insert for Wick.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Kavak posted:

Ah, I read that adventure (Do more of those, I want Wickhate) and assumed it was doing the "courtly politics and duels" side of things. Didn't know it was that inaccurate.

Did Wick have a pet faction in 7th Sea?

There aren't any hot, devious not-Japanese ninjas to be his waifu so no.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Kavak posted:

Ah, I read that adventure (Do more of those, I want Wickhate) and assumed it was doing the "courtly politics and duels" side of things. Didn't know it was that inaccurate.
One of the things L5R does, as I recall, is poo poo on ronin mechanically and otherwise at every opportunity.

Meanwhile in reality traveling all over the place and getting into swordfights with lots of different people who fight differently is the way to be the best swordfighter. Pretty sure Miyamoto Mushashi was a ronin for example.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Kavak posted:

Ah, I read that adventure (Do more of those, I want Wickhate) and assumed it was doing the "courtly politics and duels" side of things. Didn't know it was that inaccurate.

Did Wick have a pet faction in 7th Sea?

Yes, the Voddace, who are the standard 'Machiavellian evil Italians'.

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

Kavak posted:

Wait, what did Lot5R miss? Sengoku Jidai warfare?

Good rules.

L5R's rules aren't, relatively speaking, that bad but they're trapped in the 90's and nobody at AEG was brave and/or paid enough to make a new system. 4th edition isn't that bad and actually made a lot of improvements but they really needed to rework everything from the ground up. Hopefully FFG will do that.

Zereth posted:

One of the things L5R does, as I recall, is poo poo on ronin mechanically and otherwise at every opportunity.

Meanwhile in reality traveling all over the place and getting into swordfights with lots of different people who fight differently is the way to be the best swordfighter. Pretty sure Miyamoto Mushashi was a ronin for example.

Per the fiction too, ronin and commoners who aren't part of the nobility, in that they possess noble blood or whatever, should be able to become the greatest champions of Rokugan. The mechanics don't even accurately depict the fiction they were made to depict.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Kai Tave posted:

Wick's response to people pointing out that a game called 7th Sea which drew ostensible inspiration from the Age of Sail contained very little to no venues for sailing or piracy threw Chinese river piracy in their faces like the world's smuggest idiot.

e;fb

One of my IRL friends often defends 7th Sea's choice to do this by pointing out that most stories Wick was inspired by were landbased and that swashbuckling isn't necessarily about sailing. It seems to be one of his pet peeves on the subject. Personally, I feel that argument misses the point as a lot of the cover art depicts sailors and boats, but it's a fair of an opinion as any other, I suppose.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Covok posted:

One of my IRL friends often defends 7th Sea's choice to do this by pointing out that most stories Wick was inspired by were landbased and that swashbuckling isn't necessarily about sailing. It seems to be one of his pet peeves on the subject. Personally, I feel that argument misses the point as a lot of the cover art depicts sailors and boats, but it's a fair of an opinion as any other, I suppose.

Kind of like how Hunter the Reckoning's art says Buffy and its writing says Frailty.

I get the Scorpions "Playing by the rules is STUPID you do what you need to WIN even if the game's mechanics are written to give huge bonuses to high honor" but was there a reason besides Wick being Wick for his hatred of Ronin?

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
A game about early modern European history (with folklore and magic and national cultures) is a great idea. Zorro and the Ancien Regime and King Arthur and Merlin and the Unseelie Court and Baba Yaga and Saracens and Musketeers and Galileo and Newton all crammed into it sounds like a hell of a good time. Except it was sold as "7th Sea" and the promotional art was full of pirates and ships and the CCG it was a spinoff was literally had players controlling fleets of ships sailing from place to place. And the setting literally had NO PLACE for those age of sail pirates and ships in it.

Just astonishing. Wick trying to play it off as, oh I meant river piracy :smug: is just the cherry on the poo poo sundae.

Kavak posted:

was there a reason besides Wick being Wick for his hatred of Ronin?
Ronin are popularly regarded as badasses (see Miyamoto Musashi, see Yojimbo and Sanjuro) and Wick's special cause is breaking down players who have the temerity to think they're badasses. Also Ronin are free of a certain amount of House bullshit and can just bail and move on if they're put in some ridiculous blood-and-honor "heads you lose, tails you lose" dilemma like Wick loves to stick players with.

FMguru fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 12, 2016

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Covok posted:

One of my IRL friends often defends 7th Sea's choice to do this by pointing out that most stories Wick was inspired by were landbased and that swashbuckling isn't necessarily about sailing. It seems to be one of his pet peeves on the subject. Personally, I feel that argument misses the point as a lot of the cover art depicts sailors and boats, but it's a fair of an opinion as any other, I suppose.

Also the game is called 7th Sea.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Night10194 posted:

Yes, the Voddace, who are the standard 'Machiavellian evil Italians'.

Nah to be fair Voddace often got their comeuppances and their OP fate magic poo poo involved literally fraying the very fabric of reality. They get a bit too far up their own rear end in some parts but he actually does a decent job showing 'yea hey sometimes the big cool schemer guy doesn't actually win'.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

Ratoslov posted:

River piracy is a wierd way of saying Chinese bronze-age river piracy. Because clearly what I am expecting in a game of swashbuckling adventure set in the middle of the Age of Sail with art of western pirates with tricornes everywhere is goddamn bronze-age Chinese river piracy.

River piracy existed in Europe as well, but there was no difference between a river pirate and your average road brigand.

For example, this is the most famous of Europe's river pirates, Yermak Timofeyevich, a Cossack pirate who operated on the Volga river ended up exploring the Siberian frontier for Ivan the Terrible...



Not exactly Calico Jack material.

Supposedly, it's still a big deal in Europe, with Serbian river pirates along the lower Danube between Romania and Bulgaria, but judging from this article on the matter, their loot is less gold and precious metals and something akin to what meth-heads in the United States would steal from construction sites.

Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

Kavak posted:

I get the Scorpions "Playing by the rules is STUPID you do what you need to WIN even if the game's mechanics are written to give huge bonuses to high honor" but was there a reason besides Wick being Wick for his hatred of Ronin?

It'd be kind of cute if the Scorpion Clan's ideological opposition to honor was actually their greatest weakness. Their history would be nothing but a cycle of crises caused by their own dishonor, which in turn causes a Scorpion hero to arise, who is then publicly lauded as a hero but privately either regarded as a useful idiot or assassinated for being too dangerous. Then like five years later a crisis shows up that the either dead or useless hero would have been a perfect counter to, which wrecks their poo poo while all the other clans daimyos high-five. Their greatest victories are not because of their ideology, but in spite of it.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Kai Tave posted:

Also the game is called 7th Sea.

Doesn't it also have rules for ships of the type that there's no reason for the inhabitants of the world to have ever developed, too? What you want out of a ship that never has to get far from a coastline to get anywhere it wants to go are quite different from one that needs to cross the Atlantic ocean without making a pitstop.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Zereth posted:

Doesn't it also have rules for ships of the type that there's no reason for the inhabitants of the world to have ever developed, too? What you want out of a ship that never has to get far from a coastline to get anywhere it wants to go are quite different from one that needs to cross the Atlantic ocean without making a pitstop.
Yep the geography of the world means there's no reason for anyone to develop anything more sophisticated than the equivalents of shore-hugging dhows or junks. Maybe if you wanted to go far in rough seas someone would build the equivalent of a Viking longship. Certainly no reason at all for anyone to develop all the intermediate steps that lead to fully-rigged multimasted age of sail vessels.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

Lipstick Apathy

Covok posted:

One of my IRL friends often defends 7th Sea's choice to do this by pointing out that most stories Wick was inspired by were landbased and that swashbuckling isn't necessarily about sailing. It seems to be one of his pet peeves on the subject. Personally, I feel that argument misses the point as a lot of the cover art depicts sailors and boats, but it's a fair of an opinion as any other, I suppose.

Yeah but it's still named 7th Sea. I mean, if the point is to have swashbuckling adventures that don't necessarily need to be on a boat, the alternative is something like Elder Scrolls: Redguard

Just Dan Again
Dec 16, 2012

Adventure!
If I remember right the D&D version of Rokugan eschewed ronin as a viable option as well. Reading Oriental Adventures as a kid, I wondered what kind of plot gymnastics you would have to pull to get a whole party of people from different clans to work together on the regular. It might have made more sense to have the big clans act as inspiration and backdrop rather than being the core character concepts for PCs. That would probably have made fans of the CCG super mad when they couldn't play their pet factions in tabletop, but scrappy ronin trying to work their way into a clan's good graces sounds like a really fun low-level game to me.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.
I've noticed an awful lot of RPGs have the problem of 'Why would 4-5 of these nutjobs be hanging out together'.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Just Dan Again posted:

If I remember right the D&D version of Rokugan eschewed ronin as a viable option as well. Reading Oriental Adventures as a kid, I wondered what kind of plot gymnastics you would have to pull to get a whole party of people from different clans to work together on the regular. It might have made more sense to have the big clans act as inspiration and backdrop rather than being the core character concepts for PCs. That would probably have made fans of the CCG super mad when they couldn't play their pet factions in tabletop, but scrappy ronin trying to work their way into a clan's good graces sounds like a really fun low-level game to me.

It wasn't that bad. It basicaly suggested that ronin should use the fighter or maybe barbarian classes. Since samurai was just a worse fighter(feats on third levels instead of second) with a free magic sword, being a fighter was way more desirable anyway.

I read that 3e OA book before ever hearing of L5R, so to me all the Rokugan poo poo contained therein was just a method by which people could intentionally make their game stuffy and boring if they wanted. Every cool thing in the book ended the first paragraph with "these do not exist in Rokugan."

NutritiousSnack
Jul 12, 2011

Young Freud posted:

Goddamn, I never noticed that really. But yeah, it's supposed to be Fantasy Europe, but it ignores all the intercontinental trade that went on to make places like Italy the center of the universe off-and-on for more than a millennium and why Spain was so loving important.

I honestly don't care at all about this line of thought, normally. Nearly all fantasy fiction takes place in Not Europe, because Western Europe's mythology is unsurprisingly popular in the west and is ingrained in our culture to require next to no research to bullshit on the game table while African mythology isn't.

The problem is pirate fiction, doesn't usually take place near...ummm...Europe or Not Europe. It takes place in Africa and the Caribbean or if your going more niche covering Chinese pirates, Korea and China. I mean pirate crews and even most naval time crews had a surprising amount of diversity too, so while NotEurope nations should make up a lot of the fluff for character backgrounds, even on that count those places should be where you draw a lot of your mythology and historical goodie digging.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

FMguru posted:

A game about early modern European history (with folklore and magic and national cultures) is a great idea. Zorro and the Ancien Regime and King Arthur and Merlin and the Unseelie Court and Baba Yaga and Saracens and Musketeers and Galileo and Newton all crammed into it sounds like a hell of a good time. Except it was sold as "7th Sea" and the promotional art was full of pirates and ships and the CCG it was a spinoff was literally had players controlling fleets of ships sailing from place to place. And the setting literally had NO PLACE for those age of sail pirates and ships in it.

Just astonishing. Wick trying to play it off as, oh I meant river piracy :smug: is just the cherry on the poo poo sundae.
Ronin are popularly regarded as badasses (see Miyamoto Musashi, see Yojimbo and Sanjuro) and Wick's special cause is breaking down players who have the temerity to think they're badasses. Also Ronin are free of a certain amount of House bullshit and can just bail and move on if they're put in some ridiculous blood-and-honor "heads you lose, tails you lose" dilemma like Wick loves to stick players with.

Man he sounds like a complete rear end in a top hat

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


drrockso20 posted:

Man he sounds like a complete rear end in a top hat
Wick.txt

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



FMguru posted:

A game about early modern European history (with folklore and magic and national cultures) is a great idea. Zorro and the Ancien Regime and King Arthur and Merlin and the Unseelie Court and Baba Yaga and Saracens and Musketeers and Galileo and Newton all crammed into it sounds like a hell of a good time. Except it was sold as "7th Sea" and the promotional art was full of pirates and ships and the CCG it was a spinoff was literally had players controlling fleets of ships sailing from place to place. And the setting literally had NO PLACE for those age of sail pirates and ships in it.

Just astonishing. Wick trying to play it off as, oh I meant river piracy :smug: is just the cherry on the poo poo sundae.
Ronin are popularly regarded as badasses (see Miyamoto Musashi, see Yojimbo and Sanjuro) and Wick's special cause is breaking down players who have the temerity to think they're badasses. Also Ronin are free of a certain amount of House bullshit and can just bail and move on if they're put in some ridiculous blood-and-honor "heads you lose, tails you lose" dilemma like Wick loves to stick players with.

Let's not forget Ogami Ittō.

Sword for hire.

Son for hire.

Seriously, at least a quarter of Lone Wolf and Cub is "Honor lets Ogami Ittō loving kill the hell out of you." without having it be entirely a mug's game.

(He'd probably kill all the Scorpions with a minigun in his son's baby carriage. )

Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

chiasaur11 posted:

Seriously, at least a quarter of Lone Wolf and Cub is "Honor lets Ogami Ittō loving kill the hell out of you." without having it be entirely a mug's game.

(He'd probably kill all the Scorpions with a minigun in his son's baby carriage. )

I've seen Lone Wolf and Cub around for years, but you have finally convinced me to read it. Good work.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

FMguru posted:

Yep the geography of the world means there's no reason for anyone to develop anything more sophisticated than the equivalents of shore-hugging dhows or junks. Maybe if you wanted to go far in rough seas someone would build the equivalent of a Viking longship. Certainly no reason at all for anyone to develop all the intermediate steps that lead to fully-rigged multimasted age of sail vessels.

poo poo, anyone who has played Civilization knows that if you can maneuver around in Triremes, there's was no reason to invest in Navigation and building Sailing Ships until later in the game or obtain the Advance through trade, theft, or invasion.

The best is when you play the real world map and go for the Leif Erickson route and get a head start on colonizing the Americas before any of the other civilizations can.

NutritiousSnack posted:

I honestly don't care at all about this line of thought, normally. Nearly all fantasy fiction takes place in Not Europe, because Western Europe's mythology is unsurprisingly popular in the west and is ingrained in our culture to require next to no research to bullshit on the game table while African mythology isn't.

At the same time, it's ignoring that the geography plays a large part in the histories and mythologies of nations. You can't just move poo poo around and expect it to have the same effect. France and Germany are different countries largely because one got invaded by the Romans and one didn't, as well as the various interplay between France and the British Isles. The reason Italy wasn't a hell hole of squabbling ethnic groups and the Balkans were is largely because the latter was the front line between Europe and the Ottoman Empire for centuries. Spain could never exist without the Moors invading the Iberian peninsula and occupying it for 7 centuries. There's no real Spanish Inquisition if there isn't a Reconquista to cause the new owners to hunt down the old occupants and anyone who allied with them.

NutritiousSnack posted:

The problem is pirate fiction, doesn't usually take place near...ummm...Europe or Not Europe. It takes place in Africa and the Caribbean or if your going more niche covering Chinese pirates, Korea and China. I mean pirate crews and even most naval time crews had a surprising amount of diversity too, so while NotEurope nations should make up a lot of the fluff for character backgrounds, even on that count those places should be where you draw a lot of your mythology and historical goodie digging.

This is kinda why I like the Shadowrun splatbook "Cyberpirates", despite it's artwork not really matching the content. The art direction predates the conception of the modern piracy being "Somali fisherman-turned-raider with an AK" so it's more "sail the seven seas with a cyberleg", otherwise it would totally be that because that's what the content is: it concentrates on the Caribbean, the Gold Coast of Africa, and Japanese-corporate-occupied Philippines islands and the desperate, desperate people involved in piracy, guerrilla warfare, and drug smuggling and why you'd get involved in that poo poo in the first place.

Young Freud fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Apr 12, 2016

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

Lipstick Apathy

Young Freud posted:

poo poo, anyone who has played Civilization knows that if you can maneuver around in Triremes, there's was no reason to invest in Navigation and building Sailing Ships until later in the game or obtain the Advance through trade, theft, or invasion.

The best is when you play the real world map and go for the Leif Erickson route and get a head start on colonizing the Americas before any of the other civilizations can.
One of the most bullshit changes of Civ 5 was to make it so that ocean tiles were straight up impassable for triremes, rather than a chance-to-sink-per-turn that they previously were.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008
When I was gaming with some friends in college, I went into 7th Sea expecting a Princess Bride pastiche and hijinks, and god-drat it, that's how I ran it.

So I had things like the head of the Inquisition in Castille explain all his plans to a PC from Eisen while the latter was suspended over a pool of sharks.

The Grand Inquisitor was basically Cardinal Richelieu as played by Tim Curry. He also vowed: "and once I am Heirophant of the Vaticine Church, I will declare war on the Objectionists and reignite the War of the Cross. Just to gently caress with you, specifically!"

So anyways, I deeply disappointed the two players who actually knew the setting and we all played something else after about three sessions. :shobon:

Just Dan Again
Dec 16, 2012

Adventure!

Doresh posted:

Valor - The Heroic Roleplay System



Alteration Modifiers

This is where most general Modifiers land. A lot of them let you replace the Technique's Active Attribute with something more desireble (for Muscle Wizards and Punch Witches).


I didn't really understand these when I was looking through the book. If you want an area attack based on strength, wouldn't it make more sense to just start with a strength damage core and modify it appropriately? It seems like a waste to spend levels modifying the base attribute when you can start from any attribute you like.

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?




quote:

Winter is the season of endings,
The season when fertility and life hide themselves,
The season when everything seems to stand still.

Here you will find various kinds of information for Golden Sky Stories.
A town where stories can take place. People who live in the town. Animals of the town.
And, the mysterious local gods.

These things are written here.
Please, use them to tell your very own stories.

Winter: Animals
It's time for some NPC fodder! Populating a fair chunk of your game will be animals - not henge, but just regular ones.

These animals can't talk to humans, and can only talk to henge of the same species as themselves - a fox henge can talk to foxes, but not to cats. Animals generally won't be very helpful, being absorbed in their own affairs, but it's courteous to say hello as your paths cross, and meeting a lost or injured animal could begin a story.

Foxes
Henge 1 / Animal 2 / Adult 1 / Child 0
Fearful of humans and some other animals, seldom showing themselves. Discussed already in the henge chapter.

Raccoon Dogs
Henge 1 / Animal 2 / Adult 0 / Child 1
Taking life at a laid-back pace; timid yet inquisitive. Discussed already in the henge chapter.

Cats
Henge 1 / Animal 2 / Adult 0 / Child 1
Living life according to their own eccentric whims, may intentionally contact henge. Discussed already in the henge chapter.

Dogs
Henge 1 / Animal 0-2 / Adult 0 / Child 0-2
Coming in wide varieties, friendly and perservering. Discussed already in the henge chapter.

Rabbits
Henge 0 / Animal 3 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Catching a wild rabbit would be a difficult task even for a henge. Discussed already in the henge chapter.

Birds
Henge 0 / Animal 4 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Animal drops to 0 if it can't fly for whatever reason. Discussed already in the henge chapter.

Bears
Henge 0 / Animal 6 / Adult 0 / Child 0
The stongest, buggest animals around. Taller than a man, seldom coming near the town. Adept climbers and swimmers, hibernating in winter. Mild, easygoing animals, but with a tendency to throw their strength around when startled. Some can become mountain gods.

Bee Swarms
Henge 0 / Animal 3-4 / Adult 0 / Child
The most dangerous animals in the area, far more than bears, are actually the bees. Their hives can show up in unexpected places, and they'll attack if you get close. If you're fleeing a swarm of bees, you'll have to go indoors or underwater. Please be careful.

Board
Henge 0 / Animal 5 / Adult 0 / Child 0
The sturdiest animals in the area. They charge when startled, but won't do more than chase away whoever's right in front of them. Sometimes they come into town when food becomes scarce. Boar children and parents get along will with other animals. Some can become local gods.

Chickens
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Can't fly, but runs faster than your typical flying bird. If they're being raised in large numbers, an escape will cause a huge ruckus. They seldom become henge.

Cows
Henge 0 / Animal 4 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Bigger than boars, quite strong, but they'd rather not move around. Generally not dangerous, often protected by humans. They're only interested in eating and raising children. They never become henge or gods.

Deer
Henge 0 / Animal 4 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Docile animals living far from the village. When taking care of children, they'll avoid other animals or people. Very fast, incredible jumpers, often traveling in large groups. Older deer can sometimes become local gods, but deer gods tend to avoid contact with people.

Fish
Henge 0 / Animal 3 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Animal 0 when out of water. Countless kinds of fish live in the local lakes and rivers, no matter where you go. Fish can sometimes become henge that never come on dry land, or local gods of ponds or rivers.

Mice/Rates
Henge 0 / Animal 2 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Mice, rats, or hamsters live just about everywhere, in surprising numbers. Mice can become henge, looking after themselves and their families with strange powers. They seldom become gods, and have trouble getting along with cats or foxes.

Monkeys
Henge 0 / Animal 2 / Adult 0 / Child 1
Smart, agile, strong. They live in groups in the forests or mountains, and they carry strong bonds with each other. When they spill into town, monkeys almost always cause trouble. Some monkeys can rise to become group leaders, but they never become gods.

Snakes
Henge 1 / Animal 2 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Often hated by humans even when not doing anything to harm them, due to some of them being poisonous. Older snakes can become gods or henge, and are often acquainted with nearby fox henge. Powerful snakes can get very large, some as long as 5 meters. Can't be found in cold areas, seldom seen in the winter.

Weasels
Henge 1 / Animal 3 / Adult 0 / Child 0
Small, clever, excellent climbers. Related to skunks, some of them may spray foul smells when chased or frightened. Weasels can become henge, but they're even more whimsical than cats, and seldom associate with others. They wander too much to become gods.

Other animals
Bats fly in the evening, flying squirrels come out at night. In the woods, squirrels and wildcats. Underground, moles. In the rain, frogs. In the water, turtles. There are countless animals living in the country, most of them seldom seen by huma eyes. Many of these stranger animals may appear as local gods. If animals not covered above appear, the Narrator can give them attributes based on similar animals from the list.

Henge of species beyond those covered in the book can be treated as animals that are capalbe of looking and talking like humans. If you want, you can give them some powers from other species - a bat henge would surely be able to use a few powers from the bird henge's list.

Animals in Stories
Animals can be used just to set the mood, or they could approach the henge with heir own problems or thoughts. The language barriers provide interesting challenges - if a bear wandered into the village, the henge would need some means other than words to persuade him to head back to the mountains.

The Narrator may allow someone to participate in a game as an animal if they want. They're created with the same attributes as the animal's section in this chapter, and don't get a human form or any powers.



Next: Those most mysterious of creatures, the humans.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

theironjef posted:

Personally I sort of figured he was leaving the rest of the world for sourcebooks, which is fine (I mean, no one busts on core Rifts for only mentioning that the NGR is governed by a Rahu-Man).

Did somebody mention Rifts? :v:

The Rahu-Man hero of Germany introduced in Conversion Book was a something folks busted on, actually! This is because when they put out Triax & the NGR, they declared that Germany had given all nonhumans the boot, and certainly didn't have any tolerance for a 20' tall, four armed golden giant. It didn't make much sense to have a supposed national hero for a country that hated and feared his kind.

18 years later, once Triax & the NGR was old enough to vote, they put out Triax 2, which explained there was a Rahu-Man who had saved a bunch of Germans and was a national hero too popular to get the boot, and had become a senator fighting for d-bee acceptance and rights. Actually a pretty cool guy and a neat thing to come out of what was originally a big continuity goof.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Regarding 7th Sea: The wall of fire just separates Cathay and Ussura. The entire continent, however, was sealed off by some kind of storm shield alien magic time forcefield bullshit; Cristo Colombo got trapped in it and supposedly found a bunch of weird poo poo before his ship passed through time and crashed with all hands missing off the coast of Ussura or something.

And then Cabora (read: Atlantis) got discovered and the engines protecting it were shut off and that turned off the time forcefield.

And then the line ended shortly afterwards, before anything about the New World could be published.

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014

Just Dan Again posted:

I didn't really understand these when I was looking through the book. If you want an area attack based on strength, wouldn't it make more sense to just start with a strength damage core and modify it appropriately? It seems like a waste to spend levels modifying the base attribute when you can start from any attribute you like.

It lets you do things like roll to-hit based on Muscle but use your Spirit Attack for the damage - and since the Blast Radius modifier is cheaper for Spirit attacks you'd... okay actually that case just breaks even but if you were using say a Line Attack instead you avoid the drawback of having less area on it (and get more benefit the more levels of Line Attack are on the Technique).

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
Basically, the stat-swapping modifiers are extremely niche, but we wanted them to be there if someone had a weird build that could take advantage of them.

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Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

drrockso20 posted:

Man now I'm remembering an attempt at a fan splat based on Tokusatsu Heroes I tried to make back in the day, and still occasionally fiddle with, could never really figure out an exact niche for them though, let alone a consistent origin for them

Their niche is that they can turn this World of Darkness into one of Brightness. And their origin is magic / spiritual power that is indistinguishable from technology.

theironjef posted:

Personally I sort of figured he was leaving the rest of the world for sourcebooks, which is fine (I mean, no one busts on core Rifts for only mentioning that the NGR is governed by a Rahu-Man). I'm really more incensed that the game lacks a proper Caribbean for pirates to pirate around in.

Classic Wick move.

AweStriker posted:

Well, you could if there weren't actually a hard limit of one summon per character at a time.

And here I was wondering "Having three of these guys around sounds a bit too much..."

Just Dan Again posted:

I didn't really understand these when I was looking through the book. If you want an area attack based on strength, wouldn't it make more sense to just start with a strength damage core and modify it appropriately? It seems like a waste to spend levels modifying the base attribute when you can start from any attribute you like.

AweStriker posted:

It lets you do things like roll to-hit based on Muscle but use your Spirit Attack for the damage - and since the Blast Radius modifier is cheaper for Spirit attacks you'd... okay actually that case just breaks even but if you were using say a Line Attack instead you avoid the drawback of having less area on it (and get more benefit the more levels of Line Attack are on the Technique).

Buying an Agility-based Ranged Attack and then switching to Muscle as the Active Attribute also sounds like a good idea to give you more range. That and the two area effects seem to be were you can get something out of it.

Of course the Attribute responsible for the damage shouldn't be too far behind your main one. Just enough that switching to the other Active Attribute is more desirable.

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