FATAL & Friends 2016-19: Bad Rules and Hidden Jewels

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Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

Kai Tave posted:

I think he means Wick's tl;dr rant about D&D3E.

Yeah, that one.

(Although I'm still kicking myself for not saving the version with the MST3k-style embedded commentary)

# ? Apr 12, 2016 22:34

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# ? Dec 5, 2024 16:48

LatwPIAT: Jun 6, 2011

Covok posted:

Or that his love of obfuscation has gone to new insane heights in 7th Sea 2nd edition with a new dice system which, according to numerous individuals I know who understand math very, very well, is impossible to optimize. For those who don't know, you roll a number of d10s then try to make groups of 10s with your result (or 15 for double successes if your skill is high enough). Apparently, you can neither easily predict your odds of success nor can you really ever reliably optimize or ever know if your actually increasing your odds of success with a decision.

Well, it's solvable but Lethe, that's one of the most fiendish systems I think I've ever heard of. Finding the the chance of success for a given number requires, for XdY, covering nearly Y^X cases through dynamic programming. If I ever were to be forced to play 7th Sea 2e, I'd probably want to write my own dice-roller (which is a lot, lot easier than determining the chance of success). Then it might be useful to run the dice-roller a million times or so to find the distribution experimentally.

In case anyone want to throw themselves into the fray, any given dice roll vector (a vector containing the rolled values) can be optimized the following way:

quote:

The function F does the following: For n dice, you first generate the 2^n binary numbers as vectors. Then, for each binary vector{

Multiply the dice roll vector by the binary vector. This "turns off" some of the dice. If the result is 10 or greater, or 15-if-you-have-high-skill continue, otherwise skip to the next binary vector.

Then run F on a dice roll vector containing the numbers you "turned off". Add 1 to the result (or two if you could make a group of 15 and have high skill).

Is this a better result than the last kept option? Then discard the last option and keep this one. (Always keep the first option.)

}

Now you have the best possible result. Return it.

E: as a friend of mine points out though, the expected value of 1 dice is roughly 0.55, except at 1 dice, where it's 0.1.

LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 12, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2016 23:02

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

fix your fuckin' tables

# ? Apr 12, 2016 23:03

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 4, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Evil Mastermind posted:

Then I told him the truth and he was baffled about why anyone would play games with the guy.

I'm not at all surprised. Maybe it's because I've known a number of John Wicks, but being charismatic and engaging and being a control nut aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think reading through Play Dirty gives an accurate picture of John Wick as a GM, either. Point is: don't trust John Wick writing about John Wick, folks.

Kai Tave posted:

I'll be honest, I'm legit surprised that as many people here jumped on the 7th Sea Kickstarter bandwagon given how well-documented Wick's inability to craft a good game, pen a good metaplot, or give good advice is.

Well, a lot of it came down to getting the whole back catalogue in PDF, which was a nice deal. But calling 7th Sea or Legend of the Five Rings a "John Wick game" is, frankly, deceptive. As John Wick himself said about 7th Sea at the time, it's not a "John Wick Game", it's an "AEG Game". Because he's built up such a persona, people seem to forget Jennifer Wick and Kevin Wilson and Dave Williams' contributions to the core, and it's reductive. Wick only wrote for number of early books in the line, even- while you can argue his writing was formative for the game, he wasn't even the line developer (that was Rob Vaux). Saying it's a "John Wick Game" is a tremendous disservice to Ree Sosebee, Kevin Wilson, Rob Vaux, and all those that easily wrote as much as Wick did for the game. It's just not true. There's a lot of stuff in the game that would have never been in there had it been solely up to John.

It's a flawed game line in many ways, to be sure, but it's got a lot of fun stuff in it, too, and it's still fairly unique amongst RPGs. I'd like to play it again, should the opportunity pass my way.

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Apr 12, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2016 23:07

Vox Valentine: May 30, 2013; Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

MARS PART TWO

American Martian City States: America didn't really intend to conquer parts of Mars like the other players on the field. The original plan was to have trade agreements and diplomacy; some of the principalities they were allied with allowed them to have military bases or US government bases as a sign of goodwill. America ended up conquering when the Prince of Mircanok had every human captured and decapitated with their heads returned to the US as a sign that they would not be willing to tolerate a human presence. In response, General McArthur had US troops perform maneuvers near the Mircanok border. The Prince did the same and Martian forces ended up firing on Rocket Rangers performing scouting by the border, which lead to America conquering Mircanok in three weeks because McArthur wanted a fight and didn't want to wait for orders. A collection of Martian troops responded in kind and attacked Mircanok but American troops were bolstered by friendly Martians and British Colonial Marines. In the long run, America's hold on Mircanok stuck and General Patton relocated to Mars to help with defense. America's holdings have been growing with the same pattern; a principality attacks, America responds with overwhelming defensive force and takes their land then expands the trench defenses that border their land (McArthur is a big fan of emulating WWI trench warfare). The conquest boosts America's economy back home and gives them "fair" access to Martian technology and goods. The governmental/state departments aren't happy with it, though. They believe we're doing too much too soon to the Martians (who are having trouble adapting to democracy and free-market capitalism) and it also doesn't help that President FDR really isn't too on board with it either.

US Principalities

Haviling was a small city state that lost most of its Warriors attacking the trench borders and skirmishes with American forces. The Prince, Prince Ghilascat, immediately surrendered when he had the chance. The US has allowed him to remain in power and Haviling is pretty peaceful, being inconsequential to American interests and away from the frontlines. Instead, the State Department has been more interested in Haviling, performing tests on the Martian civilians and using them for American interests. Now the fields of Haviling grow ethanol corn for the US' Martian vehicles, the Craftsmen are making goods for an American market and ore/minerals are being mined to be shipped to Earth in exchange for money from the government, private companies and assistance from doctors, technicians and researchers. It's doing well for itself, though society has been altered.
Kostrast took advantage of the American/Mircanok war to steal up as much free land as they could to make the principality grow. Prince Tyriolik is firmly pro-America and has let Earthlings join his courts, explore his new lands and tinker with ancient Martian technology. Our arrival was the best thing that could have happened to him; he got to steal the land of his enemies and he's rich beyond his wildest dreams now. As a result, Kostrast is one of the top places for American interests to visit.
L'Tang is the latest principality to be taken over. As a result, the military and state department are fighting over control. As a result, FDR has turned L'Tang into a test for an American Martian Administration; everything is now run by a committee of three state department diplomats, three staff officers and three Noble Martians (who can't actually vote). Nothing actually gets done or decided as a result, and the only reason the principality functions at all is because Martians without orders will just act according to tradition and because Americans will ignore orders if they feel like it.
Mircanok has been reduced to just the city of Mir. Mir is the seat of American Martian government and General McArthur is its governor. Since he's a Martiaboo in this universe instead of being infatuated with Japan, let's pretend he likes to wear traditional Martian cloth robes while he rules. The army rules the city, but the Martians consider McArthur to be their new Prince, and things are relatively comfortable and stable. The Army Corp of Engineers has been hard at work replacing/repairing Ancient Martian technology.

French Mars: France controls its Martian interests the same way it approaches Indochina, North Africa and its other interests. Diplomats and businessmen in employ of France do most of the work slowly squeezing its principalities dry the French way: promise military protection and trade Martian tech/treasure for our tech and knowledge. There's a single garrison of soldiers and unfortunately for France, its interests are very close to the territories Italy, Germany and the USSR control. They lack any power for an excursion beyond "defeat Martians" and if things get too hot, they'll be at a substantial disadvantage.

Kolpith was taken in the only display of French military power on Mars. Consisting of four cities in well-defended mountains, Kolpith had an intense dislike of the principality of Harkanith. The next time Kolpith's forces left the mountains to fight Harkanith, they were attacked by the French (who made a deal with Harkanith's prince for help. In the long run, Kolpith ended up solely under French rule (Harkanith's prince didn't really care about governing it, only defeating it) with Charles De Gaulle acting as military governor. Kolpith is doing well, blending French diplomacy and Martian bureaucracy to turn a profit.[/list]

His Britannic Majesty's Martian Dominions: Britain is no stranger to what they're doing and they've made it abundantly clear that Mars is India II: Electric Boogaloo; it doesn't help that Britain is getting bored with the constant troubles with their other colonies. Britain controls 29 principalities, 9 of them directly with the rest as allies. They're controlled with military and politics but the big killer is economic control by enslaving the principalities to the British economy and putting them into debt through loans from the Crown. It really doesn't help that the Princes in debt to Britain have a habit of blowing the loan money on fancy Earth cars and planes and other neat Earth things.

_{British Mars.}

Fathire is a good example of this debt. Fathire is rich in copper, gold and iron but it also has an Ancient machine that recycles ore and scrap into usable metal. The price of keeping the machine running and repaired made Prince Fathin CVI turn to borrowing money to pay a repair crew, but he kept taking out more loans and misusing the money for his own means. Now Fathire does whatever Britain wants, and what Britain wants is ore turned into ingots.
Opalar was a principality nestled in the obsidian mountains of an old volcanic range. In spite of the natural defenses, the principality was taken over by the British army using artillery and bombers. Opalar would like to rebel but isn't really feeling it; not much has changed besides that their Prince lives on Earth and never visits because Britain wants Opalar just to have it, not to rule it.

The Soviet Client States: The three Martian principalities of the G'Hascar Triangle (Sutinu, Taretnia and Uvalon) were infiltrated by Soviet agents spreading Communism. This resulted in the Warrior castes of all three principalities taking to the streets to force change by executing the Priests and Nobles. The combined military might of three principalities almost wasn't enough, but the Interplanetary Comintern of the USSR joined them in overthrowing their masters and establishing a base on Mars for Russia. Considering how the rebellion went down and how comfy the Russians have made themselves, they're not going anywhere soon.

Uvalon is allegedly the worker's paradise of Mars. Sure, the castes exist socially though they've been formally abolished. Sure, Soviet advisors dominate the collectives that answer to the Central Collective but they're supposed to be temporary. Sure, the USSR has basically just replaced the Noble caste but look how stable we are compared to those other principalities with humans. Nikita Khrushchev is the Chairman of Uvalon and he's interested in keeping everything stable, calm and productive if the facade of success ever wears off.

Italian Mars: Italian Mars controls three principalities and is right next to Germany's land. It really only owns them because of Germany's help getting to Mars. Italy is openly looting their principalities (not very well) and enslaving the native Martians. Frankly, Italian Mars is a lot like North Korea, carrying on and showing off what they're doing while Mussolini begs Hitler for assistance in putting down another revolt.

Nuova Roma was the principality of Jailkarv until the Italian army killed 70% of the population. The Priest, Noble and Warrior castes were completely killed while the others were kept in camps as the Italians looted/burned Jailkarv for a straight month. The principality is now known as Nuova Roma; the Martian art was destroyed/sold and replaced with pro-fascist art, the streets were renamed, the fields are worked by Martian slaves and the temples were destroyed and replaced with Catholic churches. It's essentially a crime to be Martian in Nuova Roma. The money in Nuova Roma stems from cheap factory-made Martian crafts, agriculture and tourism.

Nazi Occupied Mars: Originally, Germany was cut-off from the space race due to the Treaty of Versailles. When the other great powers re-evaluated the Treaty and allowed Germany to build rockets for scientific or exploration purposes, the Nazis quickly embarked on the scientific project of exploring Mars by taking it over. In an attempt to avert another World War (rimshot), the great powers let Hitler get away with it. Now Germany owns 39 principalities and is hungry for more, growing rich with bald-faced plunder of treasure and technology. Of all countries on Mars, Germany's exploration of Ancient technology has resulted in the most change. Nazi Mars has the Deutsche Marskorps, an army of soldiers utilizing the War Walkers (bipedal assault mechs that run on water) and are greedily ferrying technology back to Mercury for R&D. This isn't even mentioning that Nazis don't view Martians as sapient beings, openly executing them if they're not working them to death.

_{Deutsche Marskorps on the move.}
Neu-Berlin is the capital of Nazi Mars, a sprawling production city of factories, farms, slave labor and weapon production. The Martians are kept as house slaves or used to do dangerous/manual/agricultural work, the Germans work the factories and the governmental offices. It's a lean, clean Nazi machine and it only grows stronger with every inch of Martian land taken.

The Freebooter States: The Freebooter States are six scattered Martian principalities who have been overthrown or changed but not by a specific country.

Emancipation was an attempt to teach the Martians democracy by American freebooters called the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. Formerly Yatharith, Emancipation was ruled by a dangerously inbred cult of Nobles whose Prince was the Martian Caligula. It was overthrown after a campaign of infiltration and revolution and renamed. A lot of Emancipation is better than it was (running water, electricity, banished caste system) but a blight has affected the crops and the elected government (of actual Martians) can't do much to stop the Priests that secretly preach doom of defying Mars' order and the displaced higher castes who don't want to take orders from people lesser than them.
Herscal had a military that amounted to the palace guards and the Prince was more than happy to hire the Sons of Sol to help protect the principality. After about a month of service, the Sons took all of the Nobles hostage and made themselves rulers, spending two months drinking, partying, murdering and looting while Herscal's people watched. This lasted until a wandering Venusian named Ophali'kilf passed through and challenged the Sons to a duel and killed them all. The Priests "conveniently" found an old prophecy that foretold of a hairy prince and the people of Herscal have elected Ophali'kilf to the position of Prince. He means well, generally, but Venusians have no concept of monarchy and the way he treats his people (nicely) is seen as bizarre to them.
New Jerusalem (formerly Sacaranon) was an attempt to rule a principality with a Martian-Earthling religious cult that resulted in religious violence and anarchy.
J'lkarinie is ruled by a human swordsman who legitimately challenged the Prince in single combat, won and became the new Prince. He mostly does whatever and lets everything go on the way it previously did.
Polintal has a Princess who married the Freebooter who saved her principality and they rule together quite happily with full blessings of their people.
Sagran is ruled by a displaced Princess who decided "screw it, I'm gonna be a pirate" and fought her way into the palace through bloody war.

The Camps of the Warlords: The Warlords are west of Soviet lands and consist of Warriors who abandoned the Revolution rather than be beholden to Communism and the Soviets. The camps are made up of Warriors, Craftsmen, Merchants and Slaves who thought it would be better to live like the Chanari. The camps have only been growing, bolstered by runaway slaves, Chanari and dissenters from other principalities. The Warlords are:

Tal-Matuth, who joined the revolution to get rich then promptly turned on the Soviets and fled to the deserts with his men where they enslaved a tribe of Chanari. Their warrior tribe is an active hindrance to the Soviet occupation and he enjoys looting, pillaging and marauding but has gotten away with it for now; there might be another country backing him to get at the Soviets.
Jisiliasc, whose men killed their Soviet allies before the principalities were taken and declared him to be the High Prince of Mars. Jisiliasc ultimately does want to rule all of Mars, so for now he and his soldiers are covertly asking the other nations for help. They're well equipped with weapons (and they even have airplanes) but are waiting, gathering power until the right moment to strike at Soviet Mars.
Hyscanthock, a corporal who rescued captive Priests from execution and fled to the western Highlands with them to help keep the Martian religion alive in the region.
Laskat, who refused to rebel and instead looted Uvalon's stocks and armories before fleeing across the Great Silt Sea on silt skimmers to start his own pirate band.
The survivors of a military junta who refused to give a city to the Soviets and became a roaming band of raiders when they lost the city after three months.

Ancient Mars: Ancient Mars consists of everywhere not colonized but full of Ancient ruins. Not much is known about the Ancient language, but that doesn't stop explorers from poking around ruins or old principalities to see what they can dig up. There are five big known sites, the biggest of which is Jastariv.

_{The outskirts of Jastariv.}

Jastariv is where Tesla found plans for the RAY guns and other tools. Jastariv is where Hitler's scientists discovered plans for the War Walkers. These discoveries have made the ruins of Jastariv the focal point of most of Mars' archaeological efforts, the city surrounded by a sea of tents. Since nobody claims the city, there's no real law but there's a sense of it. America has two outposts (one State, one Army), Nazis and Soviet explorers often violate the peace of the city and other nations scramble for a stake. The unaffiliated archaeologists run the spectrum of "actually trained" to "looter" with many countries paying them to sabotage other jobs or bring back a claim's bounty.

Independent Mars: There are principalities that have never seen a human or don't know anything about what's been going on in other principalities. Mars, for the most part, abides and just keeps on doing its own thing. G'Pak is the sample principality of Independent Mars, an oasis in the middle of the Great Silt Sea. Because everything needs to be imported and it's one of the few safe places to stop when traveling, the true power of G'Pak lies in the populous Merchant caste's ability to run everything and get everything. It's the Martian equivalent of Hong Kong; you can get anything you need for a small tariff and you can sell anything.

PERSONALITIES OF MARS

Princess D'Larna came to power the same year Einstein, Tesla and Armstrong arrived to her principality of U'Lavik. She became the public face of Mars and many admirers and diplomats came to beg her favor. But she was unsure who to trust or if the humans were trustworthy and had a ship built to take her to Earth, becoming the only Princess/Noble to ever visit Earth. When she traveled the Earth, she was accepted into every capitol and came to a conclusion about us. We were creative, we were inventive and honorable as much as we were bigoted, greedy, chaotic and violent. D'Larna returned to her home and banished all Earthlings from her court except for the ones she felt exemplified the human spirit's greatness. She's not planning for a war; she's planning for whichever nation casts eyes on her land, making sure it's technologically and socially prepared with the help of her human advisors.

High Priest Farthou is sick and tired of Earthling exploitation of Ancient technology. Using his ties in the Sacred Order of the Hamaxe and the help of the lower castes, he has started a resistance movement consisting of guerilla warbands. Small archeological expeditions can be attacked and killed while bigger ones should be sabotaged or rigged or have accidents/incidents blamed on the Chanari. Not everyone supports him, but he has his followers.

_{Not related to Farthou but relevant to Martian resistance.}

Alphi was a Warrior palace guard who managed to escape a Freebooter revolution-turned-Noble coup. He was tasked with guarding the heir apparent to the throne, a six-month-old Noble girl. He brought her with him and almost lost his life to another group of Freebooters but was saved by her cries and their mercy. They have since pledged loyalty to the baby Princess and are helping Alphi prepare for a war to retake the throne of Tasmanip but they need more manpower.

Hantha was the courtesan to a cruel, violent Prince who let Tal-Matuth into the palace as part of the Soviet's coup. She's the brains to Tal-Matuth's Warrior might, her courtesan training giving her diplomatic skills. As such, she's the one that actually runs the Warlord's camp and juggles the factions. She can't do this forever, though. All things fall.

Yatlik was a Merchant who lived for the days of traveling the open sands of Mars. Now he's a slave under Italian oppression, forced to give up everything he knows for menial toil (and worship of Catholicism, which is amusingly referred to as "The Three-Pronged Ancestor God and his Living Prince on Earth"). He's completely on board with revolution in Nuova Roma but he also realizes that if they're not careful, the next revolution will fail. As such, he's taken it upon himself to mastermind the next one and is slowly spinning a web of intrigue.

Sezhant H'Laghtil was disillusioned with the state of the Warrior caste, wanting to rise higher than his current rank. He turned to Communism when he had the chance, eager to join the other Warriors replace the Nobles that ruled them, but his promotion never came. The political officer he talks to says he's not ideologically pure enough; perhaps if he can turn these Craftsmen, Slaves and Merchants into soldiers, he might be able to prove his loyalty.

Opali'kilf treats his Martian subjects the way he'd want to be treated. He's polite, he considers their opinions regardless of caste, he treats them like equals. But they won't change for him, not really. He hates the ceremony of the whole thing, he hates that he feels like they treat him like a child, a figurehead. His only respite from being Prince is his hunting trips. His trips are taking longer, though, and there's whispers of unrest.

_{Opali'kif, Venusian Prince of Mars.}

Lt. Kenneth Spencer is a white officer of the black Buffalo Soldiers cavalry (yup, it's the 30s) and went to Mars with his men when Patton relocated them. At least he comes from a lineage of abolitionists. He's been with Patton and McArthur for the long haul: fighting in campaigns against attackers, helping stop rebellions, clandestine operations. He's a typical cowboy cavalryman with a saber, ivory-handled RAY gun pistols and a horse on Martian soil.

_{Lt. Spencer.}

Francois le Sage is a genius when it comes to Ancient technology but will only work where France allows him to. The country uses him as a bargaining tool: accept our terms and he might look at your technology. For his part, le Sage prefers to operate autonomously and conduct his own business and repairs as he sees fit. He won't take every job, but the ones he does take tend to make things much better for the Martians and French.

_{A spot of info on the languages of Ancient Mars.}

Sir Daniel Edmund Pelham-Kole is not the real Sir Daniel Edmund Pelham-Kole. He is actually his batman, an orphan named Daniel Kirby, and was injured in the Battle of the Somme while the real one was killed. He took his identity and papers and ring to survive in a German hospital rather than a prison camp and was released when the war ended. He took Sir Daniel's life thanks to his facial injuries, knowledge of his life and the fact that Sir Daniel's family died in the war from war, disease and age and is now the shrewdest diplomat from England, responsible for getting England on Mars. He's even introduced the Martians to cricket and polo.

Otto Skorzeny is the real Otto Skorzeny. He's tough, strong, cunning and honorable and is responsible for espionage all over Mars on Germany's behalf. He works directly under Rommel, but as history as shown about him, he's not necessarily going to engage in the atrocities the Nazis want him to do.

NEXT TIME: the Asteroid Belt and beyond!

# ? Apr 12, 2016 23:19

Robindaybird: Aug 21, 2007; Neat. Sweet. Petite.

apparently people who worked with John Wick on L5R didn't care for him very much either.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 01:25

Kavak: Aug 23, 2009

Rocket Age is a great counterbalance to discussing John Wick.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 01:29

Zereth: Jul 8, 2003

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I'm not at all surprised. Maybe it's because I've known a number of John Wicks, but being charismatic and engaging and being a control nut aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think reading through Play Dirty gives an accurate picture of John Wick as a GM, either. Point is: don't trust John Wick writing about John Wick, folks.

Of course what he does present as good about himself and his GMing in Play Dirty are fairly worrying even if they're not accurate accounts.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 02:09

LatwPIAT: Jun 6, 2011

I got bored. Here's a 7th Sea 2e dice statistics calculator:

code:

from random import randint

from pythonds.basic.stack import Stack

def divideBy2(decNumber):
    remstack = Stack()

    while decNumber > 0:
        rem = decNumber % 2
        remstack.push(rem)
        decNumber = decNumber // 2

    binString = ""
    while not remstack.isEmpty():
        binString = binString + str(remstack.pop())

    return binString

def sevensea2roller(rolls):
    dn = len(rolls)
    binary = [0]*dn
    result = 0
    unusedd = rolls[:]
    actived = [0]*dn
    maxv = 0
    curv = 0
    for i in range(2**dn):
        a = str(divideBy2(i))
        unusedd = rolls[:]
        actived = [0]*dn
        for j in range(1,len(a)+1):
            binary[-j] = int(a[-j])
        actived = [a*b for a,b in zip(rolls,binary)]
        if sum(actived) >= 10:
            unusedd = [a-b for a,b in zip(unusedd,actived)]
            while 0 in unusedd:
                unusedd.remove(0)
            if len(unusedd)>0:
                curv = 1 + sevensea2roller(unusedd)
            else:
                curv = 1
        maxv = max(maxv,curv)
    return maxv
                

#print(sevensea2roller([10,10,3,4,5]))

rolls = 10000 #this is the number of times the dice are rolled to calculate the distribution
dice = 5 #this is the number of dice rolled.
results = [0]*(dice+1)
atleast = [0]*(dice+1)
nums = [0]*(dice+1)

for i in range(rolls):
    rolledd = [0]*dice
    for j in range(dice):
        rolledd[j] = randint(1,10)
    a = sevensea2roller(rolledd)
    results[a] = results[a]+1

for i in range(len(results)):
    results[i] = results[i]/rolls
    nums[i] = i

atleast[-1] = results[-1]

for i in range(2,len(atleast)+1):
    atleast[-i] = results[-i]+atleast[1-i]
    
print('Chance of getting exactly/Chance of getting at least:')
print(nums)
print(results)
print(atleast)
print('Expected value:')
print(sum([a*b for a,b in zip(nums,results)]))

The function sevensea2roller(rolls) calculates the optimal grouping of a list of rolled dice. The program itself currently runs sevensea2roller(rolls) for 10,000 randomly generated rolls of five dice and tallies how often a given number comes up. Then it divides the tallies by 10,000 to get the probability of those numbers appearing.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 04:49

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Halloween Jack posted:

Wick despises the D&D convention of the murderhobo PC with no family, no friends, no holdings, no social position, and no purpose but killing and looting. So he deliberately writes games where that's prohibitive or impossible. Supposedly, he got the idea for Houses of the Blooded from going to conventions and playing a D&D Fighter named "Fighter." Supposedly he did this many times without his character's name, much less his background, ever mattering a drat. So he wrote a game where your character's name and family determine your stats.

A game about samurai is right up Wick's alley for obvious reasons. But a ronin in fantasy Japan is too much like a D&D PC...no holdings, no family, no master, probably reduced to being a footloose mercenary.

See why didn't he just do a game set in Glorantha? Players are tied to an actual clan and all that, but you get to create different stats and poo poo anyway. I mean you even get the advantage of setting up murderhobos if you desperately want to.

Thinking about it, are there any RPGs that start with a good reason why all the characters are together?

# ? Apr 13, 2016 06:05

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Josef bugman posted:

See why didn't he just do a game set in Glorantha? Players are tied to an actual clan and all that, but you get to create different stats and poo poo anyway. I mean you even get the advantage of setting up murderhobos if you desperately want to.

Thinking about it, are there any RPGs that start with a good reason why all the characters are together?

I mean it depends on what you define as a good reason. Any given superheroes RPG has a built-in reason from the get-go...you're forming a league of some sort, presumably justice-oriented. There are plenty of RPGs where the fundamental premise involves characters belonging to a particular organization, things like Delta Green or any given military game or even things like Atomic Robo where the default assumption is that the players work for Tesladyne.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 06:11

Robindaybird: Aug 21, 2007; Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Josef bugman posted:

See why didn't he just do a game set in Glorantha? Players are tied to an actual clan and all that, but you get to create different stats and poo poo anyway. I mean you even get the advantage of setting up murderhobos if you desperately want to.

Probably because Ducks are too silly and it's made by a "Weird hippy shaman"

# ? Apr 13, 2016 07:28

NutritiousSnack: Jul 12, 2011

Young Freud posted:

poo poo, anyone who has played Civilization knows that if you can maneuver around in Triremes, there's was no reason to invest in Navigation and building Sailing Ships until later in the game or obtain the Advance through trade, theft, or invasion.

The best is when you play the real world map and go for the Leif Erickson route and get a head start on colonizing the Americas before any of the other civilizations can.

At the same time, it's ignoring that the geography plays a large part in the histories and mythologies of nations. You can't just move poo poo around and expect it to have the same effect. France and Germany are different countries largely because one got invaded by the Romans and one didn't, as well as the various interplay between France and the British Isles. The reason Italy wasn't a hell hole of squabbling ethnic groups and the Balkans were is largely because the latter was the front line between Europe and the Ottoman Empire for centuries. Spain could never exist without the Moors invading the Iberian peninsula and occupying it for 7 centuries. There's no real Spanish Inquisition if there isn't a Reconquista to cause the new owners to hunt down the old occupants and anyone who allied with them.

I get this, but the balance of laziness, a desire not to offend, and appeals to surface/hobby enthusiasm of European History and Tolkien Fantasy is to blame for a lot of pop dnd settings and it's an excuse I sympathize with and when it comes to Eberron/Ravenloft (not the Roma poo poo though) will even defend. It's indeed a problem but when it infects poo poo like L5R and 7 Seas.

There is a poo poo ton of pop history written about samurais or pirates, along with so much art/pulp entertainment available, there's no excuse entirely because it's extremely easy not to gently caress up and if your into that stuff so it should be a nostalgia trip to do basic research.

Young Freud posted:

This is kinda why I like the Shadowrun splatbook "Cyberpirates", despite it's artwork not really matching the content. The art direction predates the conception of the modern piracy being "Somali fisherman-turned-raider with an AK" so it's more "sail the seven seas with a cyberleg", otherwise it would totally be that because that's what the content is: it concentrates on the Caribbean, the Gold Coast of Africa, and Japanese-corporate-occupied Philippines islands and the desperate, desperate people involved in piracy, guerrilla warfare, and drug smuggling and why you'd get involved in that poo poo in the first place.

I really want a pirate rpg that handles stuff like this or swashbuckling adventures, and I would think it's a popular genre ripe to dig into, but man no one is even trying to tap into it.

It's kinda weird because Shadowrun is a bad system and has uneven products when covering topics like this, usually they're the first ones to pull Civil War South and WWII Japan are back, crap.

Hostile V posted:

Lt. Kenneth Spencer is a white officer of the black Buffalo Soldiers cavalry (yup, it's the 30s) and went to Mars with his men when Patton relocated them. At least he comes from a lineage of abolitionists. He's been with Patton and McArthur for the long haul: fighting in campaigns against attackers, helping stop rebellions, clandestine operations. He's a typical cowboy cavalryman with a saber, ivory-handled RAY gun pistols and a horse on Martian soil.

_{Lt. Spencer.}

A whole lot of white officers of segregated units where involved in the civil rights movement or efforts of desegregate the army, either because serving with them and living with them changed their opinions on race relations for numerous and obvious reasons or because they specifically took the job to make a point about the absurdity of white supremacy and to prove black americans equally skilled and patriotic as white americans.

Not a big surprise they went that route

NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Apr 13, 2016

# ? Apr 13, 2016 07:49

echopapa: Jun 2, 2005; El Presidente smiles upon this thread.

Robindaybird posted:

apparently people who worked with John Wick on L5R didn't care for him very much either.

Note that one of the authors of 7th Sea was Jennifer Wick.

Note that prostitutes in Theah are called �jennies.�

I think there is good reason to believe that there was a certain lack of harmony at AEG when 7th Sea was published.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 08:22

Count Chocula: Dec 25, 2011; WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN

echopapa posted:

Note that one of the authors of 7th Sea was Jennifer Wick.

Note that prostitutes in Theah are called �jennies.�

I think there is good reason to believe that there was a certain lack of harmony at AEG when 7th Sea was published.

I could be charitable and suggest it's old slang, like in The Ballad of Pirate Jenny.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 08:28

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 4, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Robindaybird posted:

Probably because Ducks are too silly and it's made by a "Weird hippy shaman"

Wick loves Glorantha and Pendragon, and I've only seen him have high praise for Stafford. This shouldn't be a huge shock to anybody that's read Orkworld, which is very much inspired by Runequest; the guy's an old-school Chaosium fan.

Count Chocula posted:

I could be charitable and suggest it's old slang, like in The Ballad of Pirate Jenny.

To "crack Jenny's tea cup" is purportedly old pirate slang for visiting a brothel.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 10:48

Quinn2win: Nov 9, 2011; Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?

Winter: People
The inhabitants of the town. They all have their own worries, their own joys, and their own goals. Any meeting with a person can be a story, getting to know a new friend can be a story. These are slightly different from the animals section, in that each one has some number of small plot hooks attached.

There's a sidebar with a bunch of Japanese names for inspiration, but I find google usually does the trick pretty well for that.

Lonely
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 2 / Child 2
An introvert, but one who doesn't like being alone. He tends to worry about things where no one is at fault. He's suffering alone to make sure he doesn't trouble others. In short, he needs a friend.
Story Fragment: He has trouble making friends, or feels he can't show his true self at home or at school. He can't speak up for fear of being hated.

Top Brat
Henge 0 / Animal 2 / Adult 1 / Child 2
There's a group of kids who cause mischief, and this one's the leader. He's healthy and charismatic, but his spot on top may be short-lived. He takes the initiative, and is usually the first to speak up.
Story Fragment: He initiated a scheme that's going a bit too far, but now he can't stop it. He might be lonely after thoughtlessly quarreling with his friends. He could be lost after clumsily falling in love.

Diligent
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 3 / Child 1
Honor student, dedicated and hard-working. Not a bad person, but his worldview is a bit narrow. If someone shows him an outside viewpoint, he may realize that there's more to the world than he thought.
Story Fragment: May get troubled when accidentally forgetting something, or making a small mistake. Pretending to know what he's doing may leave him in over his head. Maybe he just wants to cry or complain but feels that he can't express himself.

Princess
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 3 / Child 3
Daughter of a well-to-do family. Privileged, but sheltered. She has an easy, safe, well-protected path laid out in front of her, but she'll inevitably want to stray from it, at least a little.
Story Fragment: She's tired of her family's restrictive rules, and just wants to play by the river with the other children. She doesn't realize someone's in love with her.

Mismatched Couple
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 2 / Child 2
They might not really be confident that they're lovers, or they might be too young to really understand love. Maybe it's a one-sided love, or maybe they're both very stubborn. Their young love is clumsy enough to make others want to meddle in it.
Story Fragment: They're unable to easily forgive each other after a quarrel. One of them might not be able to express how they feel. There could even be an awkward one-sided love between a human and a henge, in either direction.

Siblings
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 1 / Child 2
Connected by a bond of blood they couldn't break even if they wanted to. They quickly bounce back after quarreling. However, they may sometimes need someone to cut in between them.
Story Fragment: The older sibling says something unreasonable to the younger one. Twins change places to cause mischief. A henge's brother or sister may make an appearance in the story.

Farmer
Henge 0 / Animal 2 / Adult 2 / Child 1
The town is self-sufficient when it comes to food. They sell their crops, but edible food that doesn't look good enough to sell may end up given away to people who live nearby. Henge could also get such gifts if they're friends with a farmer.
Story Fragments: Henge might get a reward for helping out at the farm. Monkeys might caause trouble in a farmer's fields. A playing child might fall into a rice paddy or irrigation canal. Something significant to a fox or local god might get dug up in someone's field.

City Person
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 4 / Child 0
A transfer student, or an adult on a business trip. Busy and distracted, with no time to believe in the supernatural. When witnessing something magical, treat their attributes as 2 lower for Surprise purposes.
Story Fragments: A city person gets lost in the countryside. She might refuse to accept the existence of henge, or have trouble adjusting to a new lifestyle.

Baby
Henge 0 / Animal 0 / Adult 0 / Child 3
It's a lot of work to take care of a baby, but their smile makes up for any hardship. At times, parents may need help from the town's residents - or henge - looking after a baby.
Story Fragments: A baby wanders off while the mother is looking away. A mother asks the henge to look after her baby while she takes care of something.

Grumpy Old Man
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 2 / Child 0
You darn kids with your color TV and your fox ears and your cell phones and your supernatural powers! He's actually so rough because he worries about kids, but he doesn't mean them any harm. He may scold henge the same way he yells at children.
Story Fragments: He's troubled because he accidentally made some kids cry. He gets drunk and cries while telling the henge about his past. Children may ask the henge to talk to him in their place.

Sensei
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 3 / Child 3
A word that refers not only to teachers but also to writers, doctors, scholars, painters, any learned professional. He can be very busy at times, but is good friends with the children. Knowledgeable as an adult, but still childish in some ways, which makes him popular with lots of people.
Story Fragments: He has visitors coming and going from the city. When he's busy, he might lose his temper, but apologize later.

Lady from the General Store
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 1 / Child
The general story doubles as the town's only candy shop. Loves kids, gives sweets to the henge. She might accept money from the fox's offerings, or might ask the henge to help out around the shop instead. She may know that they're not exactly human.
Story Fragments: She comes down with a cold, and asks the henge to mind the store. An older henge like a fox may have been friends with her for a long time.

Buddhist Priest
Henge 1 / Animal 1 / Adult 2+ / Child 1
Or any other sort of priest. He knows well about the world of gods and henge - for purposes of Surprise, his attributes are 4(!) higher than normal. He welcomes visitors at his temple or shrine, and is a good person to go to for advice.
Story Fragments: Playing around graves could draw his ire. He asks the henge to help out with an upcoming festival. Someone comes to the temple seeking shelter from the rain.

Shrine Maiden
Henge 1 / Animal 1 / Adult 1+ / Child 2
Daughter of the family that runs a Shinto shrine. If a fox has a shrine nearby, they likely know of each other. Her attributes are 2 higher than normal when it comes to Surprise. She maintains the shrine and lives life at a leisurel pace.
Story Fragments: Another girl starts to idolize her. She made a promise with a local god when she was younger. She tries to convince a fox to make it rain so that she can weasel out of the athletics festival.

Leaving Town
Henge 0 / Animal 1 / Adult 1+ / Child 1+
Someone will be going away for any sort of reason. Maybe it's because of family, maybe it's to follow their dreams. Maybe it's because they're going somewhere far away from this world. They'll be gone soon, so give them one last happy story, and don't forget them.
Story Fragments: Before they leave, they have something important they want to say to someont hey care about. An apology, a message, a confession of love.

People in Stories
Unlike Henge, people have no powers - they can only spend Feelings, never Wonder. Most people the henge meet in stories will have some small problem that they need help with, which becomes the seed of a story. However, not all stories are about resolving some incident. They're about encounters and contact.

With Narrator permission, someone who has played a henge before can try playing a human in another story. It may be hard on the player, since children may have restricted freedom and not be able to appear in as many scenes. Humans can't have a Henge or Animal above 2, but Adult can go as high as 5.

Next: The gods.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 13:29

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

I know I'm a couple-few days late to comment on Bellum Maga, but I have to say I did really enjoy the part where the book said "Killing innocents is bad. Here's all the ways you can turn slaughtering children into magical power for your own use. Wink."

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Apr 13, 2016

# ? Apr 13, 2016 15:17

Halloween Jack: Sep 11, 2003; La morte non ha sesso

LatwPIAT posted:

Many RPGs labour under the dilemma that they want to let the players play anything, but not everything plays well together. I think the best solution is to simply have a narrower focus and not let players play everything, or build the entire setting around the existence of groups of disparate player characters. The always excellent Delta Green did both, because it tried to solve the problem of why the bellhop, a university professor, and a private eye always end up working together: first, you really should be playing US FedGov employees, and second, you're all part of the same inter-agency group of FedGov agents organized into inter-agency task forces by the FBI Director.

I think it's just that in the 90s, there was a big push for PC types to have more background and flavour. So there was this explosion of creativity and world-building that went too far and ignored playability. (The problem is exacerbated when a lot of these games were urban fantasy or otherwise "dark" games where the PCs belong to factions that have reason to be secretive and suspicious of one another.)

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I don't think reading through Play Dirty gives an accurate picture of John Wick as a GM, either. Point is: don't trust John Wick writing about John Wick, folks.

But so what if it isn't? He says he's an rear end in a top hat GM, we take him at his word...that's not a brilliant troll.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 15:34

Doresh: Jan 7, 2015

Hostile V posted:

Nazi Occupied Mars: Originally, Germany was cut-off from the space race due to the Treaty of Versailles. When the other great powers re-evaluated the Treaty and allowed Germany to build rockets for scientific or exploration purposes, the Nazis quickly embarked on the scientific project of exploring Mars by taking it over. In an attempt to avert another World War (rimshot), the great powers let Hitler get away with it. Now Germany owns 39 principalities and is hungry for more, growing rich with bald-faced plunder of treasure and technology. Of all countries on Mars, Germany's exploration of Ancient technology has resulted in the most change. Nazi Mars has the Deutsche Marskorps, an army of soldiers utilizing the War Walkers (bipedal assault mechs that run on water) and are greedily ferrying technology back to Mercury for R&D. This isn't even mentioning that Nazis don't view Martians as sapient beings, openly executing them if they're not working them to death.

_{Deutsche Marskorps on the move.}

I love that these are Reichsflugscheiben with legs.

PoptartsNinja posted:

I know I'm a couple-few days late to comment on Bellum Maga, but I have to say I did really enjoy the part where the book said "Killing innocents is bad. Here's all the ways you can turn slaughtering children into magical power for your own use. Wink."

But what if... the children aren't innocent *dun dun duuun* ?!

# ? Apr 13, 2016 16:40

Ratoslov: Feb 15, 2012; Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

Halloween Jack posted:

But so what if it isn't? He says he's an rear end in a top hat GM, we take him at his word...that's not a brilliant troll.

Yeah, even if rear end in a top hat GM isn't a genuine expression of his GMing soul, then he's the kind of dude who thinks it's cool to pretend to be an rear end in a top hat. It's more generous towards him to think he's a rear end in a top hat than to think he's a disingenuous rear end in a top hat.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 18:53

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Also, it's a book of advice where all the advice boils down to 'be an annoying rear end in a top hat'.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 18:55

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, even if rear end in a top hat GM isn't a genuine expression of his GMing soul, then he's the kind of dude who thinks it's cool to pretend to be an rear end in a top hat. It's more generous towards him to think he's a rear end in a top hat than to think he's a disingenuous rear end in a top hat.

John Wick, the original ironic shitposter.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 20:35

Doresh: Jan 7, 2015

Night10194 posted:

Also, it's a book of advice where all the advice boils down to 'be an annoying rear end in a top hat'.

Written by someone who clearly loves the sound of his own voice a bit too much.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 20:43

Valatar: Sep 26, 2011; A remarkable example of a pathetic species.; Lipstick Apathy

I can completely get behind wanting characters to have families, friends, motivations. Just not to the point of flogging players through the rule mechanics about it.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:07

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Kai Tave posted:

John Wick, the original ironic shitposter.

He has to develop his posting persona and defend his posting honor, while leaving a posting history behind him for the clever to use as weapons against him. It checks out, Max!

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:23

Calde: Jun 20, 2009

Doresh posted:

But what if... the children aren't innocent *dun dun duuun* ?!

Then we're back to discussing Beast and it's examples of play, I suppose.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:37

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Calde posted:

Then we're back to discussing Beast and it's examples of play, I suppose.

Thinking about Beast and Hunter has be annoyed yet again. Folks said Beast is supposed to be the "multiplayer" game line that bridges and involves all the different nWoD game lines, yet Hunter already does that. Hunters are plausible and interesting antagonists to every single game line in the World of Darkness and even if some of the compacts and conspiracies may not be suitable at least one of them probably is and street-level hunter cells are always a viable option.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 00:17

Vox Valentine: May 30, 2013; Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

The weird thing about Hunter/Beast is that in all of the Hunter lines, Hunters don't really have the full story when it comes to other monsters. They just see what's on the surface for the most part and get some things right (vampires, werewolves, mages) or have no loving clue what the hell/aren't even sure any of these powers or beings are related (changelings, prometheans, sin-eaters, mummies, demons). If a Hunter sees a Beast, though, and the conclusion they draw is "this is a person with the primal powers of a monster and they literally feed on fear" or "this is a monster in the shape of a person", they're absolutely right. There's not much more nuance to Beasts and that oddly puts Hunters in a position where they're more likely to have the full story or picture from the get-go, especially if they grill a Hero for information (at the very least, Heroes and Hunters don't get along). Yeah, they're missing some minor details (Beasts have to choose to become Beasts, they only make Heroes when they starve themselves) but I feel like part of the fun/horror of Hunter is not having the full picture and having to figure it out as they go. What's to figure out with a Beast, who they target? Why does that matter when they can only function in society by inflicting terror on a regular basis so they're a constantly operating presence, a serial-spooker. Hunters, to Beasts, are just mostly sane, mostly capable threats who can actually get abilities that threaten them (from drugs, Jesus, gribbly surgeries, etc.).

# ? Apr 14, 2016 04:49

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Is Inklesspen's FNF scraper down? I'm not seeing a lot of the more recent updates on there.

Calde posted:

Then we're back to discussing Beast and it's examples of play, I suppose.

I can't wait until I get to the hunting examples in the next chapter because it does a much better job of undermining Beast's premise than I ever could.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 04:50

Covok: May 27, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Kurieg posted:

Is Inklesspen's FNF scraper down? I'm not seeing a lot of the more recent updates on there.

I can't wait until I get to the hunting examples in the next chapter because it does a much better job of undermining Beast's premise than I ever could.

He said there is a bug he is working to fix.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 04:51

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Doresh posted:

Their niche is that they can turn this World of Darkness into one of Brightness. And their origin is magic / spiritual power that is indistinguishable from technology.

I'll keep that in mind, Kamen Rider Amazons is definitely making me want to do something with this idea(cause it has quite a bit of a WoD vibe to it)

# ? Apr 14, 2016 04:59

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 4, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Zereth posted:

Of course what he does present as good about himself and his GMing in Play Dirty are fairly worrying even if they're not accurate accounts.

Well. I don't think it's necessarily inaccurate per se as more a slice of a larger situation. I don't think Wick would get people coming back if it was just four hours of him feeding character sheets into a paper shredder. Do you? That's not to excuse Play Dirty, but you tend not to get repeat business as a GM that way. If there weren't moments of victory and interesting interactions to go with the occasional gently caress-over, I don't think he'd be able to talk much about getting to GM at all. Granted, nerds tend to be overly tolerant at the best of times. But at the same time gaming anecdotes are rarely complete pictures of an entire campaign, especially ones designed to prop up his tough-guy GM persona. And though folks here tend to find it repulsive, and I sure as hell didn't give Play Dirty 2 a complimentary review, it's also a persona that's help attract a dedicated fandom that see it as witty and frank. Once again, you'd get disagreement here, but I was a fan at a young age and so I understand why one might feel the appeal.

I generally believe people contain multitudes, ultimately. Some people were really upset after not liking the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game that I wasn't willing to condemn people for playing it, and wow, I don't get that. Doing these reviews is kind of cathartic for me, though. I don't need to fret the gently caress over what John Wick does in his home games. Somebody obviously enjoys what he does, and that's fine. I don't need to bring up my disagreements with him ad infinitum. I already put it in writing, after all.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 05:11

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Well. I don't think it's necessarily inaccurate per se as more a slice of a larger situation. I don't think Wick would get people coming back if it was just four hours of him feeding character sheets into a paper shredder. Do you?

Considering some of the poo poo I've seen people put up with in order to get a regular hit of elfgaming in their lives, it honestly wouldn't surprise me. Are you telling me you've never known, seen, or heard about a group of players that put up with a lousy GM that would have had you walking out the door before the first session was done? Like, I'm totally willing to believe that John Wick is an unrepentant self-aggrandizer among his many other lackluster qualities, but I'm also willing to believe that someone with Real Professional Game Designer cred to boast about could keep a desperate group of gamers welded together despite treating them poorly.

e; And anyway, as a poster on the Something Awful dot com forums you of all people should be familiar with the idea that ironically acting like an rear end in a top hat, or acting like an rear end in a top hat because you've adopted it as your gimmick, is still acting like an rear end in a top hat. I judge John Wick based on what he's decided he wants to be judged on, if that's not fair because I'm not seeing the full picture then tough, I'm not gonna go knock on his door and ask to hang out so I can get a better feel for the author of Play Dirty.

Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Apr 14, 2016

# ? Apr 14, 2016 05:17

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

At the same time if anyone actually does use the advice in Play Dirty I'm pretty sure that makes them a pretty lovely GM.

e: What I mean is, it fails as a book of advice designed to help newer GMs get used to the job, not that they're a terrible person for being misled by a book or whatever.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Apr 14, 2016

# ? Apr 14, 2016 05:20

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 4, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Kai Tave posted:

e; And anyway, as a poster on the Something Awful dot com forums you of all people should be familiar with the idea that ironically acting like an rear end in a top hat, or acting like an rear end in a top hat because you've adopted it as your gimmick, is still acting like an rear end in a top hat. I judge John Wick based on what he's decided he wants to be judged on, if that's not fair because I'm not seeing the full picture then tough, I'm not gonna go knock on his door and ask to hang out so I can get a better feel for the author of Play Dirty.

I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm not even really trying to defend him. I'm just saying that if one wants to ask questions like "how could anybody play with the guy?", reducing him to a caricature (even if it is self-illustrated) is going to keep one from understanding the answer.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 05:31

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm not even really trying to defend him. I'm just saying that if one wants to ask questions like "how could anybody play with the guy?", reducing him to a caricature (even if it is self-illustrated) is going to keep you from understanding the answer.

Okay but people actually behave that way in the really-real world is my point, I'm not reducing Wick to a caricature, if anything I'm being remarkably evenhanded by simply using the available evidence to deduce that he's both bad at GMing and also game design. The world is jam-packed full of people bad at things who dramatically overestimate their own talents, John Wick isn't being unfairly caricatured here.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 05:33

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 4, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

It's not a question of fairness to me. It's a question of awareness. I've actually met the guy and had him be amazingly considerate to a young fan. I also had him explode in my face. I've also had him apologize for exploding at me. Does the one time he was lovely to me wipe out all the other times? Well, I don't like painting things with one brush. It doesn't excuse what he did, but understanding what was going on in his life at least goes some way towards explaining it, and I find that a lot more interesting than being purely dismissive.

In any case, if you don't think I'm critical enough after my Way of the Scorpion review, I really don't know what else there might be to say.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 06:10

Just Dan Again: Dec 16, 2012; Adventure!

Rocket Age looks like so much fun, either to run or to play in. The sheer number of adventure hooks they throw at you is phenomenal and they look like they'd suit a ton of different playstyles. It's been interesting to read the review just after running through a bunch of the SLA Industries and Deadlands stuff on the F&F archive; Rocket Age presents so many problems, mysteries, and impending interplanetary catastrophes that part of me is expecting a metaplot book to come along to make sense of it all. Then I remembered that it was made in the 21st century, and that we've mostly left behind the idea that every game line was working toward some conclusion that ultimately doesn't involve any of the actual players.

Are there any modern games that even approach the metaplot shenanigans of yesteryear? Even the most edgelord stuff that's shown up in the thread seems to have found other ways of being up its own rear end.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 06:11

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# ? Dec 5, 2024 16:48

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 4, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Legend of the Five Rings was metaplot personified even recently, but the metaplot also came largely from the CCG and the game is on hiatus now, so who knows if that'll continue at Fantasy Flight.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 06:13

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > FATAL & Friends 2016-19: Bad Rules and Hidden Jewels

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