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  • Locked thread
Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

TheCog posted:

Its deliberately not a meta read, if it were a meta read, I'd call out posts and point at specifics, its a gut judgement. There's not enough content for me to make a meta read.

If you think it was a bad post, but not scummy, why did you feel compelled to point it out?

I like your answers so far actually. How do you feel about 100YrsofAttitude?

If the read requires a reference to another game, I think it's by definition a meta read, fwiw.

If you double-check the post in question where all of this started, you'll see that I'm actually talking about my read of Trasson, not of Friction, so I don't think "compelled to point it out" is necessarily fair.

I'm actually about to be commuting, so the requested read on 100Yrs will have to wait for a little while, but I promise not to forget about it.

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Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


Alright, so the big thing to go off of: TheCog's massclaim plan and reactions to it. There's likely other useful data, but I'm going to just concentrate on this subset since I feel it's a good place to start, although I'm sure there's lots to criticize.

Gulag is the first one to show support for it, and continues to do so even after everyone else is like "Umm, no.".

A bit later, Flying Leatherman comes out in support of the motivation of his plan though not the actual idea.. Some other people had said his plan's a bad one but at least town intentioned, but FL is a little more direct in supporting TheCog as Town, and even calls out the plan post as, paraphrasing, reminding [FL] of his content posts [when he was town].

Lumpen then asserts that, as the setup designer, a D1 massclaim in any way would be a bad idea. I think this is legit: aside from the prevailing wisdom in the thread, Lumpen has no reason to lie: if he's town, he wants to tell the truth. If he's scum, he wants to look town.

Cog then responds saying he believes an open setup is there to be broken and that he'd let the idea rest since there wasn't enough support. He then goes on to defend the massclaim plan. He also outs himself as being an experienced player, but new here. This was known secondhand (to me, at least; I might have missed a post from him on it), but this is a confirmation of that fact.

Concerning Operation Masslcaim, King Burgundy finally shows and comes out with soft support but has no issues waiting until later, while Friction.123 chimes in with a distilled version again condemning the idea, but respecting the thought behind it.

TheCog makes his second defense of his plan after saying he'd drop it in response to Kashuno's outright statement that attempting to solve by claim at this point would be scummy.

TheCog then makes another post on voting for someone off of a rule of thumb heuristic. Kashuno comes out and condemns MassClaim and backs it up with a vote. We then get TheCog Defense #3 after saying he'd let his plan rest. Some more back and forth ensues, with TheCog claiming he'd willingly trade a cop for a scum. Gulag chimes in with agreeing with the plan but backsteps, calling Cog out on expending effort defending a plan that won't happen. A couple of followup comments about Gulag not caring if the power roles survive are made. 100yrs agrees that power roles are support for winning, not the victory methods.

Friction votes Gulag, and Gulag again comes out in support of massclaiming. He also thinks pineapple on pizza is merely okay, so he's scum based on that alone, but let's continue to be objective.

We'll skip ahead a few pages of TV discussion and small debates on whether or not Friction/myself are scum, as it's not the topic I'm looking at here.

100yrs comes out with a soft defense of gulag, a read on some other people, and then votes for imgay with no reasoning given. Later, he posts his reasoning: based on a meta read of how imgay has played as scum/town. Cog chimes in with a defense of imgay based on a couple of games he looked at; 100yrs brings up some others. A bit later he gives a final read on imgay, Friction, and Metos, standing by his vote.

Then we get to the recent bits I addressed in my last post.


So, what do I takeaway from this?

Cog stood a little too strongly behind his plan even after saying he'd drop it. He's either dedicated or stupidly stubborn, no matter which side he's on. If he were full on new I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but if half the board (which by definition must include townies) is saying they think your plan sucks defending it is not how you look good. He's either scum gone rogue, the SK, part of a smokescreen for the other scum, part of a really hail mary scum plan, or just an eager young space cadet promising kittens and rainbows. My preference is towards SK: he has a vested interest in trying to out as much of both sides as possible, consequences be damned. Note his insistence on the power/not power claim, and his surety that the Mafia would claim power. The scum claiming power is bad for them, for exactly the reasons Cog keeps saying. He doesn't care, though! If the town claims their power then most of his job is done for him. If the Mafia are dumb enough to counterclaim power then he's got an easy coast to victory. Additionally, as the SK, he'd have a hard time of things scoring victory; more than anyone the SK has an interest in a longshot play.

Gulag is also in a lot of support for Plan Massclaim, and is the only one to show unconditional support. This is weird if they're both scum, but if Cog is SK then Gulag could be scum and potentially reap the benefits of the claim. As town the play makes little sense: why are you coming out so hard in favor of what most feel is an antitown play? That just makes your position worse when arguing for who's scum. Of course, the same goes for if he's scum, so that's a wash. Gulag being scum fits, but if he flipped town I wouldn't be completely surprised.

100yrs is also in defense of the plan but sends his votes in a different direction. As someone pointed out, there's plenty of content to make use of. Why make a meta vote? Cog is against it, and brings up previous games, and 100yrs brings up even earlier games. This is suspiciously convenient if and only if they're both Mafia; it's merely coincidental otherwise. As much as I'd like to say 100yrs is scum based on this, I don't have enough backing it up.

If pressed I'd go and give a look at some other players but at that point I'd probably just be looking for evidence to fit a narrative (I mean, even more so than this looks). Based on the above I'm feeling most strongest on TheCog as scum, but I'll certainly keep an open mind as deadline approaches. Nevertheless, I shall put my money where my mouth is in the meantime:

##vote TheCog

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


By the way, I'm sure someone more experienced is going to call all of that out as wrong, but hey, bad opinion better than no opinion, right?

Which I guess is a defense of Thecog, but....eh. Gotta make a choice at some point.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Trasson posted:

Alright, so the big thing to go off of: TheCog's massclaim plan and reactions to it. There's likely other useful data, but I'm going to just concentrate on this subset since I feel it's a good place to start, although I'm sure there's lots to criticize.

Gulag is the first one to show support for it, and continues to do so even after everyone else is like "Umm, no.".

A bit later, Flying Leatherman comes out in support of the motivation of his plan though not the actual idea.. Some other people had said his plan's a bad one but at least town intentioned, but FL is a little more direct in supporting TheCog as Town, and even calls out the plan post as, paraphrasing, reminding [FL] of his content posts [when he was town].

Lumpen then asserts that, as the setup designer, a D1 massclaim in any way would be a bad idea. I think this is legit: aside from the prevailing wisdom in the thread, Lumpen has no reason to lie: if he's town, he wants to tell the truth. If he's scum, he wants to look town.

Cog then responds saying he believes an open setup is there to be broken and that he'd let the idea rest since there wasn't enough support. He then goes on to defend the massclaim plan. He also outs himself as being an experienced player, but new here. This was known secondhand (to me, at least; I might have missed a post from him on it), but this is a confirmation of that fact.

Concerning Operation Masslcaim, King Burgundy finally shows and comes out with soft support but has no issues waiting until later, while Friction.123 chimes in with a distilled version again condemning the idea, but respecting the thought behind it.

TheCog makes his second defense of his plan after saying he'd drop it in response to Kashuno's outright statement that attempting to solve by claim at this point would be scummy.

TheCog then makes another post on voting for someone off of a rule of thumb heuristic. Kashuno comes out and condemns MassClaim and backs it up with a vote. We then get TheCog Defense #3 after saying he'd let his plan rest. Some more back and forth ensues, with TheCog claiming he'd willingly trade a cop for a scum. Gulag chimes in with agreeing with the plan but backsteps, calling Cog out on expending effort defending a plan that won't happen. A couple of followup comments about Gulag not caring if the power roles survive are made. 100yrs agrees that power roles are support for winning, not the victory methods.

Friction votes Gulag, and Gulag again comes out in support of massclaiming. He also thinks pineapple on pizza is merely okay, so he's scum based on that alone, but let's continue to be objective.

We'll skip ahead a few pages of TV discussion and small debates on whether or not Friction/myself are scum, as it's not the topic I'm looking at here.

100yrs comes out with a soft defense of gulag, a read on some other people, and then votes for imgay with no reasoning given. Later, he posts his reasoning: based on a meta read of how imgay has played as scum/town. Cog chimes in with a defense of imgay based on a couple of games he looked at; 100yrs brings up some others. A bit later he gives a final read on imgay, Friction, and Metos, standing by his vote.

Then we get to the recent bits I addressed in my last post.


So, what do I takeaway from this?

Cog stood a little too strongly behind his plan even after saying he'd drop it. He's either dedicated or stupidly stubborn, no matter which side he's on. If he were full on new I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but if half the board (which by definition must include townies) is saying they think your plan sucks defending it is not how you look good. He's either scum gone rogue, the SK, part of a smokescreen for the other scum, part of a really hail mary scum plan, or just an eager young space cadet promising kittens and rainbows. My preference is towards SK: he has a vested interest in trying to out as much of both sides as possible, consequences be damned. Note his insistence on the power/not power claim, and his surety that the Mafia would claim power. The scum claiming power is bad for them, for exactly the reasons Cog keeps saying. He doesn't care, though! If the town claims their power then most of his job is done for him. If the Mafia are dumb enough to counterclaim power then he's got an easy coast to victory. Additionally, as the SK, he'd have a hard time of things scoring victory; more than anyone the SK has an interest in a longshot play.

Gulag is also in a lot of support for Plan Massclaim, and is the only one to show unconditional support. This is weird if they're both scum, but if Cog is SK then Gulag could be scum and potentially reap the benefits of the claim. As town the play makes little sense: why are you coming out so hard in favor of what most feel is an antitown play? That just makes your position worse when arguing for who's scum. Of course, the same goes for if he's scum, so that's a wash. Gulag being scum fits, but if he flipped town I wouldn't be completely surprised.

100yrs is also in defense of the plan but sends his votes in a different direction. As someone pointed out, there's plenty of content to make use of. Why make a meta vote? Cog is against it, and brings up previous games, and 100yrs brings up even earlier games. This is suspiciously convenient if and only if they're both Mafia; it's merely coincidental otherwise. As much as I'd like to say 100yrs is scum based on this, I don't have enough backing it up.

If pressed I'd go and give a look at some other players but at that point I'd probably just be looking for evidence to fit a narrative (I mean, even more so than this looks). Based on the above I'm feeling most strongest on TheCog as scum, but I'll certainly keep an open mind as deadline approaches. Nevertheless, I shall put my money where my mouth is in the meantime:

##vote TheCog

Defending the logic of my idea doesn't mean I want to go through with it, it means I want to clearly lay out the logic to avoid scum claiming its mafia motivated. It was evident shortly after I posted it that we weren't going to go through with it, the point then, was no longer "can we go through with it" but rather "what do people's reactions to the plan tell us about them". Kashuno's pigheadedness for example, led me to think he's town.

Honestly, you've written up what events occurred in the game yes, but I haven't been pushing the plan especially hard, specifically, I've not told anyone to claim. I've merely backed up its logic when people have called it stupid. Because I think the logic is sound, and because, frankly, I take it a little personally when people call my plan stupid, and because again, calling it "stupid" is an easy contribution, that by refuting can expose false logic/bad motivations. FYI, the logic of the plan also screws over the SK, as he winds up in the small people of vanilla townies the mafia have to shoot into if they claim POWER, or worse, the 50% odds pool town is lynching into. But I'm really tired of defending a plan that literally follows logical paths.

If you really think I'm a serial killer, then I'm the ballsiest motherfucker out there. My plan would get me killed as SK, *even if* the mafia played really stupid. SK is a delicate balance of keeping kills more or less even, my plan does the opposite.

I'd love to hear how a plan that relies on the mafia team being stupid and that assumes the town is smart enough to follow it, is at all a winning play.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Trasson posted:

By the way, I'm sure someone more experienced is going to call all of that out as wrong, but hey, bad opinion better than no opinion, right?

Also stop doing this. Its a good post. Wrong, flawed, based on not understanding the line of play you'd typically expect from a serial killer, and fundamentally misunderstanding my plan. But it's a solid effort. You're at least trying to post, which is more than some people are doing.

Double down. Yell at me. Refute my posts. If you really think I'm a SK, tear me apart. Experience is good and all that, but there's nothing like a solid analytical mind, and reading the thread. You seem to be doing that, so don't let something like being new hold you down.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

Trasson, JakeP, Asiina, Kashuno, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics, Metos, Tommunist, Captain Foo, GulagDolls, I summon you and demand you give me 3 names of people you are willing to contribute to lynching today.

:siren:3 hours and 30 minutes remain!:siren:

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Hey y'all kash here not really reading thread anyways derop

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back



This post is full of a lot of words disguised as content. The first half of the post is just a rundown of things that happened with no analysis or reads.

The second half is full of hedging.

Trasson posted:

Gulag being scum fits, but if he flipped town I wouldn't be completely surprised.

Trasson posted:

As much as I'd like to say 100yrs is scum based on this, I don't have enough backing it up.

Trasson posted:

Based on the above I'm feeling most strongest on TheCog as scum, but I'll certainly keep an open mind as deadline approaches.

That's what scum do - make reads but leave the door open to back out of them if it makes them look better.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

Hi AnonymousNarcotics why are you posting but not helping me to fill out my chart?

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


Lumpen posted:

Trasson, JakeP, Asiina, Kashuno, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics, Metos, Tommunist, Captain Foo, GulagDolls, I summon you and demand you give me 3 names of people you are willing to contribute to lynching today.

:siren:3 hours and 30 minutes remain!:siren:

The three at the end of my last post will do.

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


AnonymousNarcotics posted:

This post is full of a lot of words disguised as content. The first half of the post is just a rundown of things that happened with no analysis or reads.

The second half is full of hedging.




That's what scum do - make reads but leave the door open to back out of them if it makes them look better.

First two are hedging, yes. I'm not sure, but thinking in that direction.

I did not mean Cog as hedging. I mean him as "I think he's scum but if I need to switch my vote somewhere else so we can hammer someone scummy rather than sit there going nyah nyah I think you're wrong/my choice is better/whatever let's no lynch then I will".

Hilariously I meant to be more decisive on that one exactly because of your earlier statement on my hedging.

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


Oh and the first half of my wall of text was more for reference benefit as opposed to useful content. I was compiling what happened re: Cog's plan to reference as I looked it over anyway so figured I'd just have it in my post since why not?

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

Lumpen posted:

Trasson, JakeP, Asiina, Kashuno, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics, Metos, Tommunist, Captain Foo, GulagDolls, I summon you and demand you give me 3 names of people you are willing to contribute to lynching today.

:siren:3 hours and 30 minutes remain!:siren:

I don't really have a confident scum read on anyone this game so far. I'm honestly a bit overwhelmed by the effort some people are putting in, which is a good thing for the state of this mafia game but i don't have the attention span to really read and take in all the super big posts. Not gonna lie I have done a fair bit of skimming. I could give you a list of more than 3 that I would be most willing to lynch, and they are mostly as a result of me having town reads on a lot of players and null reads on others. Those players are KB Imgay Gulag Anon Captain Foo, Flying Leatherman, Asiina and 100yrs. Wow so yeah I called out like half the game (if I wasn't me I would include myself on this list most likely, I am not satisfied with my level of participation thusfar).

If I need to lock in on 3 it would be KB, Leatherman, and Asiina, but I would vote anyone on that list if it was going to be a no lynch and one of them was a vote leader.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

Now that I have typed that out I want to do a takeback and switch asiina for 100yrs

dont call me out for still voting foo please it would trigger me

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

I forget Podima makes early deadlines.

I am currently out grocery shopping and feeling like death, but I'll come back in an hourish and reread what's been posted since last night, since I've honestly been skimming most of the day.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

uhhh gently caress 7pm is early okay I will do my best to come back

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Ok, we have like three hours to consolidate on a lynch.

This is the current count.

:awesomelon: Votecount for Day 1 :awesomelon:

King Burgundy (3): Asiina, TheCog, Lumpen
imgay (2): Captain Foo, 100YrsofAttitude
TheCog (2): AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123, Kashuno, Trasson
GulagDolls (2): Tommunist, AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123, Friction.123
AnonymousNarcotics (2): TheCog, GulagDolls, King Burgundy, TheCog
Captain Foo (2): JakeP, Metos
Tommunist (1): Asiina, Asiina, Flying Leatherman
Friction.123 (0): Asiina, Asiina
Trasson (0): Lumpen, Lumpen
Asiina (0): Tommunist, Tommunist
Kashuno (0): Tommunist, Tommunist

Not Voting (2): Friction.123, imgay :ffg:

With 16 alive, it's 9 votes to lynch. The current deadline is February 01st, 2016 at 7 p.m. EST -- that's in about 2 hours, 51 minutes.

Could we maybe consolidate onto someone? Ending on a no-lynch is the worst.

I'll settle for any of my scum-reads. Or try selling me on a case.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

JakeP posted:

Now that I have typed that out I want to do a takeback and switch asiina for 100yrs

dont call me out for still voting foo please it would trigger me
You are voting Captain Foo but he's apparently not even in your top FOUR suspects? What in the heck!?!
:chloe:

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



TheCog posted:

Ok, we have like three hours to consolidate on a lynch.

I'll settle for any of my scum-reads. Or try selling me on a case.

TheCog posted:

I will however happily share my current scumreads, I'm just gonna c/p from the google doc I've got going.

Flying Leatherman - Low volume of posts.

Friction.123 - Could be newbie town, but the eagerness to jump on a wagon, any wagon, is worrying. It also felt like voting on me was jumping on a wagon of opportunity.

Metos - Mafia, based on


So these are your three current scum reads, and yet, your vote is still on me. If you actually meant to do that, I'd like to hear your scum reasoning on me.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


King Burgundy posted:

So these are your three current scum reads, and yet, your vote is still on me. If you actually meant to do that, I'd like to hear your scum reasoning on me.

I thought I'd voted flying leatherman in my earlier post. Apparently I didn't.

I am, however going to vote for the person who hasn't even made a token effort to address my concerns.

##Vote: Metos

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies


TheCog posted:

I thought I'd voted flying leatherman in my earlier post. Apparently I didn't.

I am, however going to vote for the person who hasn't even made a token effort to address my concerns.

##Vote: Metos
Yo literally just woke up (8:41am here in Melb now). Lemme get on that right now and also address Foo's thing from earlier

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Hi Cog, got home and read 100Yrs and I think while there are not a ton of posts there I also think that they're in general pretty okay. Asking the right questions and, after the game starts to pick up, making some reads. I think that the commitment to an imgay vote is questionable, but that's only because imgay is reading to me to be exactly the same as in every game that I've ever seen him in ever, i.e. completely null read.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

I'm back and really, really want to take a nap (being sick sucks) but I'll give a readthrough before I do.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

at this point I feel more comfortable voting KB over imgay

##vote kb

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies


TheCog posted:

Metos - Mafia, based on

1.) Spurious reasoning about gulag that's not actually substantiated with anything.
2.) Why do you vote for a lurker when you have two people you think are mafia? Feels like a "safe" vote. Especially the "I'm happy to switch to X, if there's a wagon building!"
3.) Saying "I think X" is mafia but also arguing they've posted like nothing is... stretching, it feels like a poor vote justification.
1) Not substantiated with anything? How about actually reading their posts? Wanting to kill off power roles and sacrifice them for a weird shot of possibly finding the mafia but if they play better than us actually just loving us over and costing us the powers permanently at a gain that could be too slow that we're all dead before the mafia are, how is that not a terrible scummy thing to suggest.
2) Because I wanted him to post way more and I knew I'd wake up before the deadline and could see the response, which incidentally, totally worked and we all have much more information from it. I don't want to let a bunch of people sit at the 10 post barrier with a bunch of non-content and fly under the radar by just not being present, they need to be forced out.
re: 'wagon building', no, people are pulling that out of there which is not what I meant, what I meant is 'Gulagdolls is my other choice for scum, so if other people are voting for Gulagdolls you can count my vote as a guaranteed one there since we'll need to consolidate as we only get one lynch, however my vote being for Foo at the time was more useful to me to pull him out more'.
3) I think I've covered that in 2

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies


Captain Foo posted:

only time this has ever been said lmfao


i don't like the phrasing here about willing 2 follow the vote-train around
See above post, not about a vote train

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



JakeP posted:

at this point I feel more comfortable voting KB over imgay

##vote kb

Why do you phrase it like we are the only two options? Cog, Gulag and AN are all also at 2 votes, if that is what you are basing it on.

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies


Lumpen posted:

Trasson, JakeP, Asiina, Kashuno, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics, Metos, Tommunist, Captain Foo, GulagDolls, I summon you and demand you give me 3 names of people you are willing to contribute to lynching today.

:siren:3 hours and 30 minutes remain!:siren:
Sure.

Gulagdolls, Trasson, still deciding on third, not convinced its KB

##Unvote
##Vote Gulagdolls

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


im currently suspicious of jakep for trying to put words in my mouth

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


FL, KB, currently don't have a third. Phone bound and in lab but if I get to a computer soon enough I can make a more detailed write up.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


i haven't really liked trasson's play but he can have the D1 shield

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


im annoyed by lumpen trying to take over the game but i don't really think it's scummy per se

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Captain Foo posted:

im annoyed by lumpen trying to take over the game but i don't really think it's scummy per se

I want him to post his updated graph, since I think it is neat.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


anything about kb's posting style being indicative of scum i do not buy at all, content-wise i'd have to review in more detail

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


i would still be incredibly happy to lynch imgay

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Asiina posted:

This is a bad vote.

explain

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Trasson posted:

Alright, so the big thing to go off of: TheCog's massclaim plan and reactions to it. There's likely other useful data, but I'm going to just concentrate on this subset since I feel it's a good place to start, although I'm sure there's lots to criticize.

Gulag is the first one to show support for it, and continues to do so even after everyone else is like "Umm, no.".

A bit later, Flying Leatherman comes out in support of the motivation of his plan though not the actual idea.. Some other people had said his plan's a bad one but at least town intentioned, but FL is a little more direct in supporting TheCog as Town, and even calls out the plan post as, paraphrasing, reminding [FL] of his content posts [when he was town].

Lumpen then asserts that, as the setup designer, a D1 massclaim in any way would be a bad idea. I think this is legit: aside from the prevailing wisdom in the thread, Lumpen has no reason to lie: if he's town, he wants to tell the truth. If he's scum, he wants to look town.

Cog then responds saying he believes an open setup is there to be broken and that he'd let the idea rest since there wasn't enough support. He then goes on to defend the massclaim plan. He also outs himself as being an experienced player, but new here. This was known secondhand (to me, at least; I might have missed a post from him on it), but this is a confirmation of that fact.

Concerning Operation Masslcaim, King Burgundy finally shows and comes out with soft support but has no issues waiting until later, while Friction.123 chimes in with a distilled version again condemning the idea, but respecting the thought behind it.

TheCog makes his second defense of his plan after saying he'd drop it in response to Kashuno's outright statement that attempting to solve by claim at this point would be scummy.

TheCog then makes another post on voting for someone off of a rule of thumb heuristic. Kashuno comes out and condemns MassClaim and backs it up with a vote. We then get TheCog Defense #3 after saying he'd let his plan rest. Some more back and forth ensues, with TheCog claiming he'd willingly trade a cop for a scum. Gulag chimes in with agreeing with the plan but backsteps, calling Cog out on expending effort defending a plan that won't happen. A couple of followup comments about Gulag not caring if the power roles survive are made. 100yrs agrees that power roles are support for winning, not the victory methods.

Friction votes Gulag, and Gulag again comes out in support of massclaiming. He also thinks pineapple on pizza is merely okay, so he's scum based on that alone, but let's continue to be objective.

We'll skip ahead a few pages of TV discussion and small debates on whether or not Friction/myself are scum, as it's not the topic I'm looking at here.

100yrs comes out with a soft defense of gulag, a read on some other people, and then votes for imgay with no reasoning given. Later, he posts his reasoning: based on a meta read of how imgay has played as scum/town. Cog chimes in with a defense of imgay based on a couple of games he looked at; 100yrs brings up some others. A bit later he gives a final read on imgay, Friction, and Metos, standing by his vote.

Then we get to the recent bits I addressed in my last post.


So, what do I takeaway from this?

Cog stood a little too strongly behind his plan even after saying he'd drop it. He's either dedicated or stupidly stubborn, no matter which side he's on. If he were full on new I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but if half the board (which by definition must include townies) is saying they think your plan sucks defending it is not how you look good. He's either scum gone rogue, the SK, part of a smokescreen for the other scum, part of a really hail mary scum plan, or just an eager young space cadet promising kittens and rainbows. My preference is towards SK: he has a vested interest in trying to out as much of both sides as possible, consequences be damned. Note his insistence on the power/not power claim, and his surety that the Mafia would claim power. The scum claiming power is bad for them, for exactly the reasons Cog keeps saying. He doesn't care, though! If the town claims their power then most of his job is done for him. If the Mafia are dumb enough to counterclaim power then he's got an easy coast to victory. Additionally, as the SK, he'd have a hard time of things scoring victory; more than anyone the SK has an interest in a longshot play.

Gulag is also in a lot of support for Plan Massclaim, and is the only one to show unconditional support. This is weird if they're both scum, but if Cog is SK then Gulag could be scum and potentially reap the benefits of the claim. As town the play makes little sense: why are you coming out so hard in favor of what most feel is an antitown play? That just makes your position worse when arguing for who's scum. Of course, the same goes for if he's scum, so that's a wash. Gulag being scum fits, but if he flipped town I wouldn't be completely surprised.

100yrs is also in defense of the plan but sends his votes in a different direction. As someone pointed out, there's plenty of content to make use of. Why make a meta vote? Cog is against it, and brings up previous games, and 100yrs brings up even earlier games. This is suspiciously convenient if and only if they're both Mafia; it's merely coincidental otherwise. As much as I'd like to say 100yrs is scum based on this, I don't have enough backing it up.

If pressed I'd go and give a look at some other players but at that point I'd probably just be looking for evidence to fit a narrative (I mean, even more so than this looks). Based on the above I'm feeling most strongest on TheCog as scum, but I'll certainly keep an open mind as deadline approaches. Nevertheless, I shall put my money where my mouth is in the meantime:

##vote TheCog

that's a lot of words and also hedgy as hell after saying you're gonna draw a conclusion, but see my earlier post

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Kashuno posted:

were I scum, I'd easily trade myself for the town cop

kashuno u should know better than to make "if i were scum" posts :mad:

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Flying Leatherman posted:


3) Foo, for dropping an early vote and then showing back up after being called out by a couple people to make exactly 9 more posts before leaving again. It feels to me like specifically posting to try and avoid hated tomorrow. This one's subject to change if he's back and active for deadline.

u can eat my rear end :)

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Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


i get stronger scumvibes from anarc than kb based on the reactions to cogpost. but not very strong ones at that tbqh

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