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100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Metos posted:

But I don't want to say the wrong term later when everyone's going to tear out my throat thinking I made a scumslip.

Oh don't you worry. We'll do that later anyway.

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Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Metos posted:

But I don't want to say the wrong term later when everyone's going to tear out my throat thinking I made a scumslip.

I almost did this when I saw "I'm probably going to get owned by it" before I reread your post ;)

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

Confirmin', Totally Town, amigos!

Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



Metos posted:

Oh sweet thanks, my previous thinking was that its when they all voted together in a minute to cause the hammer and gently caress someone over, hence "throwing them under the bus". But I don't want to say the wrong term later when everyone's going to tear out my throat thinking I made a scumslip.

this is your first game yeah?

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

TheCog posted:

##Vote: AnonymousNarcotics

Actually, I'm considering something. I think the town might benefit from a mass claim.
We have, 5 power roles, 6 backups, 5 scum

If everyone claims POWER or NO POWER, we get 5 confirmed townies, 11 unconfirmed, of which 5 are mafia. If we lynch into that pool, we have high odds of hitting scum. Just under 50% in fact. It also forces scum to aim their kills at the people who claimed POWER, which means that the medic and bp are likely to be even more useful.

So after day 1, lets assume we lynch town. Two shots into power roles, lets assume both hit and kill. That leaves us 3 confirmed townies, 10 unconfirmed. BUT WAIT. The new promotes then claim. Suddenly we have, 5 confirmed town, 8 unconfirmed, of which 5 are mafia. That gives us 5/8 odds of hitting scum. 62.5% odds, not counting the fact that we have potential cop saves, potential lives saved from the medic suddenly having a much higher chance of protecting right (because if scum shoot into the NOT POWER pool, they just hurt themselves) AND if we have a weird number of claims, (6 POWER claims) we claim one role at the time, if mafia try to counterclaim, they've put themselves out.

Downsides: It tells the mafia where to aim their roleblock and kills, puts serious pressure on the mafia and sk to cooperate.

Thoughts?

As the designer of this setup, I can confidently say this would have a bad outcome for us at this time. I think you're more likely Town for proposing it, though. You have the right intuition; In this setup, a massclaim is strong and necessary at the right moment. There's a balance of risk and reward that tilts with every flip and every night result and every claim. In Slack Mafia #2, where this setup originated, the Scum had the game virtually wrapped up (if the Scum would have been online to drop their votes together, the game would be over), but Town was able to take the win by massclaiming at that time and leveraging Scum fakeclaiming mistakes into logic traps, when the various counterclaims were weighed against the posting, voting, and play of previous days. It was quite thrilling.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Lumpen posted:

It was quite thrilling.

You sound like a mad scientist.

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies


Tommunist posted:

this is your first game yeah?
Yeah I've read some of the Auspol ones since I'm Aus and the gimmicks sound way more interesting than in-person werewolf can be, like Bifauxnen's Jojo's one or Anidav's haunted house one, so I figured this'd be a good one to jump in and get a handle on it since I know my BSG.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

I'm a Miller

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



lets turbo lumpen

Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



Kashuno posted:

I'm a Miller

You've milked my heart

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



Lumpen posted:

As the designer of this setup, I can confidently say this would have a bad outcome for us at this time. I think you're more likely Town for proposing it, though. You have the right intuition; In this setup, a massclaim is strong and necessary at the right moment. There's a balance of risk and reward that tilts with every flip and every night result and every claim. In Slack Mafia #2, where this setup originated, the Scum had the game virtually wrapped up (if the Scum would have been online to drop their votes together, the game would be over), but Town was able to take the win by massclaiming at that time and leveraging Scum fakeclaiming mistakes into logic traps, when the various counterclaims were weighed against the posting, voting, and play of previous days. It was quite thrilling.

I am going to kick your rear end

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

I didn't read the setup and therefore didn't realize this was an open setup but yep I am the Miller confirming

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


Metos posted:

Yeah I've read some of the Auspol ones since I'm Aus and the gimmicks sound way more interesting than in-person werewolf can be, like Bifauxnen's Jojo's one or Anidav's haunted house one, so I figured this'd be a good one to jump in and get a handle on it since I know my BSG.

The latest Jojo game was fun as gently caress to read, not all games are quite that insane though!

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

I didn't read the setup and therefore didn't realize this was an open setup but yep I am the Miller confirming
I rate this claim as 100% believable.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


A couple comments:

Asiina posted:

Also yeah, it does kinda defeat the purpose of the game to logic puzzle it out on D1.

While I respect the sentiment, I disagree with it, for me mafia games also involve a strong element of logic, and part of that is if a setup can be broken, then it should be, its on the people designing the setup to make sure that its not possible to break the setup immediately. (And for the record, I still think my plan works, I don't think it *breaks* the setup in that its not instant victory, but I think it makes winning a lot easier for the town)

Lumpen posted:

As the designer of this setup, I can confidently say this would have a bad outcome for us at this time. I think you're more likely Town for proposing it, though. You have the right intuition; In this setup, a massclaim is strong and necessary at the right moment. There's a balance of risk and reward that tilts with every flip and every night result and every claim. In Slack Mafia #2, where this setup originated, the Scum had the game virtually wrapped up (if the Scum would have been online to drop their votes together, the game would be over), but Town was able to take the win by massclaiming at that time and leveraging Scum fakeclaiming mistakes into logic traps, when the various counterclaims were weighed against the posting, voting, and play of previous days. It was quite thrilling.
I'm willing to buy that a mass claim later in the game is stronger, actually, anyway, not enough people are on board with my plan, so I'll let the idea of doing it rest.

Metos posted:

Also this is dumb and you should sit in the corner and think about what you've said. If one mafia is going to claim a power why wouldn't every mafia claim a power? Then we have 9 claims to powers, 4 of which are doubled and we have a 50/50 shot of lynching the power role and losing it forever by not letting our backups come online. Spend 4 days doing that in the best case, but lets see how well we look trying that with all the night murdering happening too.

This is the best outcome for town. You have 9 people claim powers (assuming the SK isn't dumb enough to also claim a power), then you roleclaim one by one, assuming the scum team is smart you wind up with, 1 confirmed townie (the non repeat role) and a list of 4 townies and 4 mafia, paired off. You lynch into one pair at a time, with a 50% chance of hitting scum. Not only that, but if the mafia shoot *any* power roles, then you automatically get to kill their counter claim. Mafia *could* do that, but they out their entire team. 50% odds of lynching mafia is *insanely* good, and in many setups, mass claims are exactly how you force a win. Consider that day one, your odds of hitting mafia are around 25%, assuming town isn't full of gifted analysts. Which it could be, but in that case, 50% odds lets them narrow their focus even better. That said, I got it, people don't think the plan is good at this point in time. I'm ok with that, its a plan that requires a majority on board, so there's no point in me insisting.

And yeah, for the people asking if I'm new, I played mafia a lot about two years ago, I'm only new to playing on here.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


u guy spost a lot for a saturday night, also thecog is probably town. that being said, until demonstrated otherwise im going to policy ##vote imgay

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Captain Foo posted:

u guy spost a lot for a saturday night, also thecog is probably town. that being said, until demonstrated otherwise im going to policy ##vote imgay

This is a bad vote.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Hi

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


:siren: Important Change! :siren:
After thinking on it, I've decided to roll flavor into the open setup so as to preserve the game balance/intrigue without adding that extra complicating factor. All role PMs are now available in the OP. Thank you all for your flexibility.

Carry on!

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


:awesomelon: Votecount for Day 1 :awesomelon:

GulagDolls (2): Tommunist, AnonymousNarcotics
AnonymousNarcotics (2): TheCog, GulagDolls
imgay (1): Captain Foo
Tommunist (1): Asiina
TheCog (0): AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123
Friction.123 (0): Asiina, Asiina
Asiina (0): Tommunist, Tommunist
Kashuno (0): Tommunist, Tommunist

Not Voting (10): 100YrsofAttitude, Flying Leatherman, Friction.123, imgay, JakeP, Kashuno, King Burgundy, Lumpen, Metos, Trasson :ffg:

With 16 alive, it's 9 votes to lynch. The current deadline is February 01st, 2016 at 7 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 6 hours.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Podima posted:

:siren: Important Change! :siren:
After thinking on it, I've decided to roll flavor into the open setup so as to preserve the game balance/intrigue without adding that extra complicating factor. All role PMs are now available in the OP. Thank you all for your flexibility.

Carry on!

This is an outrage!

Death to the mod!

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



I think Cog's idea is fun and could work, but I'm fine waiting till later.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



I think AN's vote for Cog was weak and scummy.

##vote AN

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


Why is Billy a ninja? How is Billy a ninja? Can we roll that into his custom BSG character somehow?

Also just letting you all know right now if the Doctor dies and I inherit I'm going to say "Winter is Coming" over and over until I get lynched. You have been warned.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


So basically the 5 Step Plan boils down to:

Good: Narrows who is scum and who is not (theoretically), and we can't lose power roles to scum targeting because they'll just get inherited

Bad: 50/50 on lynching a power role and losing it forever

Personally I don't think risking out power roles this early is worth it, but I'm willing to buy that it at least came from a good place.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

There are vanilla backups in this game. Solving by claim is not feasible at this point in the game, and to suggest it is is extremely scummy

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

There are vanilla backups in this game. Solving by claim is not feasible at this point in the game, and to suggest it is is extremely scummy

Please qualify your statement, specifically refute the logic in my posts.

In fact, if its scummy, where's your vote for me? Why is it scummy?

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

King Burgundy posted:

I think AN's vote for Cog was weak and scummy.

##vote AN

I don't believe you.

##vote KB

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

Please qualify your statement, specifically refute the logic in my posts.

In fact, if its scummy, where's your vote for me? Why is it scummy?

Sorry I'm phone bound at the moment and just wanted to comment on a topic of discussion, I haven't read everything yet and had no idea who actually started the claim idea. When I get time to read it all over and put something together, rest assured I will! :sun:

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

Sorry I'm phone bound at the moment and just wanted to comment on a topic of discussion, I haven't read everything yet and had no idea who actually started the claim idea. When I get time to read it all over and put something together, rest assured I will! :sun:

I look forward to it then.

Asiina posted:

I don't believe you.

##vote KB

##vote KB

I think that's a good vote.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Kashuno posted:

There are vanilla backups in this game. Solving by claim is not feasible at this point in the game, and to suggest it is is extremely scummy

Nope, it isn't.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Asiina posted:

I don't believe you.

##vote KB

Weird. Ok.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



TheCog posted:

I look forward to it then.


##vote KB

I think that's a good vote.

:lol:

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

I look forward to it then.


##vote KB

I think that's a good vote.

Why?

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST



Opportunistically joining the bandwagon. Specifically as a rule of thumb, votes between 3 - 5 on an early bandwagon are from scum who feel comfortable enough with the possibility of getting the train rolling, without the scrutiny of being one of the first votes.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

##Vote: AnonymousNarcotics

Actually, I'm considering something. I think the town might benefit from a mass claim.
We have, 5 power roles, 6 backups, 5 scum

If everyone claims POWER or NO POWER, we get 5 confirmed townies, 11 unconfirmed, of which 5 are mafia. If we lynch into that pool, we have high odds of hitting scum. Just under 50% in fact. It also forces scum to aim their kills at the people who claimed POWER, which means that the medic and bp are likely to be even more useful.

So after day 1, lets assume we lynch town. Two shots into power roles, lets assume both hit and kill. That leaves us 3 confirmed townies, 10 unconfirmed. BUT WAIT. The new promotes then claim. Suddenly we have, 5 confirmed town, 8 unconfirmed, of which 5 are mafia. That gives us 5/8 odds of hitting scum. 62.5% odds, not counting the fact that we have potential cop saves, potential lives saved from the medic suddenly having a much higher chance of protecting right (because if scum shoot into the NOT POWER pool, they just hurt themselves) AND if we have a weird number of claims, (6 POWER claims) we claim one role at the time, if mafia try to counterclaim, they've put themselves out.

Downsides: It tells the mafia where to aim their roleblock and kills, puts serious pressure on the mafia and sk to cooperate.

Thoughts?

Everyone claims; all mafia WILL claim a power role. This will leave you with, more likely, our backups found out and scum gets a bounty of new information on who to target. This is a huge net negative for town, and is blatantly set up to help scum pick their targets. Another possibility; scum will mix and match power and no power, which gives town no new information, but gives scum more information. There is absolutely no way this benefits town, period. You seem like the kind of player who thinks before they post, so for you to ignore options that are apparent within half a second of reading your post screams scum that is trying to push a false narrative.

##vote TheCog this is the right vote.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

Everyone claims; all mafia WILL claim a power role. This will leave you with, more likely, our backups found out and scum gets a bounty of new information on who to target. This is a huge net negative for town, and is blatantly set up to help scum pick their targets. Another possibility; scum will mix and match power and no power, which gives town no new information, but gives scum more information. There is absolutely no way this benefits town, period. You seem like the kind of player who thinks before they post, so for you to ignore options that are apparent within half a second of reading your post screams scum that is trying to push a false narrative.

##vote TheCog this is the right vote.

Covered in my other posts. If we have too many power claims it guarantees scum lynches, because we then sequentially claim powers. Have two cops? Congrats you guaranteed yourself a mafia Lynch. Have 2 cops and two medics? You got half the mafia team. Oh *and* mafia can't shoot into the lower roles without outing themselves then.

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


I don't think saying dumb ideas warrants a vote, if it did everyone would just always vote kash.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

Covered in my other posts. If we have too many power claims it guarantees scum lynches, because we then sequentially claim powers. Have two cops? Congrats you guaranteed yourself a mafia Lynch. Have 2 cops and two medics? You got half the mafia team. Oh *and* mafia can't shoot into the lower roles without outing themselves then.

Your original idea was "POWER" or "NO POWER," please don't change your idea now.

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Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

The idea "Oh we have 6/7/8/9/10 people claim power? Everyone step forward." doesn't work. Especially as the game goes on.

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