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TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

Your original idea was "POWER" or "NO POWER," please don't change your idea now.

Yes. And if you get too many power claims you then do individual role claims. As stated multiple times.

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Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

Yes. And if you get too many power claims you then do individual role claims. As stated multiple times.

that doesn't work. At all. Think.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

that doesn't work. At all. Think.
Except it does. You end up with two cops? One is mafia. Two doctors? One is mafia. What are they going to do "I'm a power role but I refuse to say specifics"?

I mean yes, if you think outing power roles for mafia lynches is bad, fine, but as to it working? It works. Clearly people don't like the odds the plan generates day 1, and I'm OK with that, but the logic is not that hard to follow.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

Lumpen posted:

As the designer of this setup, I can confidently say this would have a bad outcome for us at this time. I think you're more likely Town for proposing it, though. You have the right intuition; In this setup, a massclaim is strong and necessary at the right moment. There's a balance of risk and reward that tilts with every flip and every night result and every claim. In Slack Mafia #2, where this setup originated, the Scum had the game virtually wrapped up (if the Scum would have been online to drop their votes together, the game would be over), but Town was able to take the win by massclaiming at that time and leveraging Scum fakeclaiming mistakes into logic traps, when the various counterclaims were weighed against the posting, voting, and play of previous days. It was quite thrilling.

lol it was pretty great

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

##vote captain foo hiding behind a policy vote that he claims he will stick to until imgay is dead

FOS@U SIR not a action just a strong fos

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

Except it does. You end up with two cops? One is mafia. Two doctors? One is mafia. What are they going to do "I'm a power role but I refuse to say specifics"?

I mean yes, if you think outing power roles for mafia lynches is bad, fine, but as to it working? It works. Clearly people don't like the odds the plan generates day 1, and I'm OK with that, but the logic is not that hard to follow.

Say 2 scum claim power and 3 dont, everyone else is honest. Then what? You helped scum and didn't help town at all.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

it's really not rocket science.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

Say 2 scum claim power and 3 dont, everyone else is honest. Then what? You helped scum and didn't help town at all.

You sequentially claim roles. Aka. Cop claims. Then doctor. Etc. You now have two doctor claims. You lynch into the pair, 50% odds of mafia. If you miss, guaranteed mafia lynch the next day *and* you have another pair to lynch into. Congrats, mafia handed you half the scum team by day 4.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

I'm talking to a wall omg.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

I'm talking to a wall omg.

This is how I feel.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

IF YOU MISS YOU GUARANTEED KILLED A POWER ROLE.

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

IF YOU MISS YOU GUARANTEED KILLED A POWER ROLE.

Power roles are here so we can kill scum. I'll happily trade 1 for 1 power roles for mafia.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

Power roles are here so we can kill scum. I'll happily trade 1 for 1 power roles for mafia.

were I scum, I'd easily trade myself for the town cop

TheCog
Jul 30, 2012

I AM ZEPA AND I CLAIM THESE LANDS BY RIGHT OF CONQUEST


Kashuno posted:

were I scum, I'd easily trade myself for the town cop
With a godfather and a Miller in play? I'd much rather have a scum lynch than a cop.

But if that's how you see things there's no way you'll find my plan reasonable.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

there's a reason no one is agreeing with your plan.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



i agree that the plan would work. i don't know why you're expending so much effort arguing about something that's not going to happen, but, you are wrong.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

If one scum claims a power role then they've sacrificed themselves to out all the other power roles, not just the one they're doubling up on. That's a pretty good trade, imo.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

TheCog posted:

Opportunistically joining the bandwagon. Specifically as a rule of thumb, votes between 3 - 5 on an early bandwagon are from scum who feel comfortable enough with the possibility of getting the train rolling, without the scrutiny of being one of the first votes.

This reason is pretty simplistic and doesn't hold true a lot of the time.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



i dont giv ea poo poo if any of these power roles survive and neither should you

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

thank you asiina you see common sense.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Kashuno posted:

thank you asiina you see common sense.

Don't suck up.

GulagDolls posted:

i dont giv ea poo poo if any of these power roles survive and neither should you

Roleblockers exist.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



Asiina posted:



Roleblockers exist.

ummm,...again i dont care

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Save the power claim for like day 3 or something

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


Maybe I am dumb but it seems pretty obvious to me that taking all your tools for finding scum and putting them out there for all the scum to easily manage is a very scum move?

Again, I agree with the general opinion that TheCog wasn't doing it from a scum angle but I have my doubts about some others.


edit: misclicked edit instead of quote trying to recover original

Truth Quark fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jan 31, 2016

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Lipstick Apathy

Guys the reason mass claiming doesn't work is because unlike other games you aren't locked into your claim, the vanilla town becomes the power roles later so someone who claims no power now could have a power later, the scum that claim no power could later claim power and it wouldn't be damning. If the vt were regular vt this would be different but its not

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



i dont think that would matter at all jakep.

Friction.123 posted:

Maybe I am dumb but it seems pretty obvious to me that taking all your tools for finding scum and putting them out there for all the scum to easily manage is a very scum move?

Again, I agree with the general opinion that TheCog wasn't doing it from a scum angle but I have my doubts about some others.
a bluuuh. a bluuh bluuh bluuuh!!!!! if you think i am scum then say so.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Kashuno posted:

I'm talking to a wall omg.

You'd think you'd be used to it by now.

TheCog posted:

With a godfather and a Miller in play? I'd much rather have a scum lynch than a cop.

But if that's how you see things there's no way you'll find my plan reasonable.

Though the miller's claimed, it's Kash.

GulagDolls posted:

ummm,...again i dont care

Yeah to be fair, power roles are aides, not the way the game should be won.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


GulagDolls posted:

i dont think that would matter at all jakep.

a bluuuh. a bluuh bluuh bluuuh!!!!! if you think i am scum then say so.

I think you are scum

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


Friction.123 posted:

I think you are scum

In fact, ##vote GulagDolls

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.


Plaster Town Cop

For content's sake, let's vote on whether to massclaim today.

&&Massclaim: NO

Patterns in stances on whether or not to massclaim may be more useful than massclaiming. Let's do it every day until a majority vote to massclaim.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



Friction.123 posted:

I think you are scum

good. now elaborate on why i am scum and thecog is not, if u pleeze


i'm for massclaiming but think pineapple on pizza is just okay

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies


GulagDolls posted:

i'm for massclaiming but think pineapple on pizza is just okay
Well that just convinces me that all of your opinions are terrible

##Against Massclaiming this early, but will reevaluate for later days

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


GulagDolls posted:

good. now elaborate on why i am scum and thecog is not, if u pleeze


i'm for massclaiming but think pineapple on pizza is just okay

I've already stated my reasons for this, I'm not gonna write a big effort essay to satisfy your opinions on my mafia knowledge thanks.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



Friction.123 posted:


Again, I agree with the general opinion that TheCog wasn't doing it from a scum angle but I have my doubts about some others.

no this is the only thing you said, actually.

that bitter refusal to explain something pretty basic (who asked for an essay) is awfully fishy

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


GulagDolls posted:

no this is the only thing you said, actually.

that bitter refusal to explain something pretty basic (who asked for an essay) is awfully fishy

Its in the same exact post you quoted, the line above. :?:

Which I accidentally clicked edit on but I think the post is the same as it was before.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

Friction.123 posted:

Maybe I am dumb but it seems pretty obvious to me that taking all your tools for finding scum and putting them out there for all the scum to easily manage is a very scum move?

Again, I agree with the general opinion that TheCog wasn't doing it from a scum angle but I have my doubts about some others.


edit: misclicked edit instead of quote trying to recover original

Hi Friction, glad you are joining us! You're new so I will say this nicely

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER EVER FOR ANY REASON EVER EDIT YOUR POSTS EVER OMG NO.

:sun:

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


Kashuno posted:

Hi Friction, glad you are joining us! You're new so I will say this nicely

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER EVER FOR ANY REASON EVER EDIT YOUR POSTS EVER OMG NO.

:sun:

I know, it was a misclick and I thought I was quoting myself, turns out I was editing. My mistake.

Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



Would vote kash just for :sun:

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



Friction.123 posted:

Its in the same exact post you quoted, the line above. :?:

Which I accidentally clicked edit on but I think the post is the same as it was before.

so the difference between the two people advocating the same idea.... IS???????!?!

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Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



Friction.123 posted:

Maybe I am dumb but it seems pretty obvious to me that taking all your tools for finding scum and putting them out there for all the scum to easily manage is a very scum move?

Again, I agree with the general opinion that TheCog wasn't doing it from a scum angle but I have my doubts about some others.


edit: misclicked edit instead of quote trying to recover original
Who do you have doubts about?


If you think someone's scum say it

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