Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL


Ah, a good plan I hadn't considered.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



First you need to find an abandoned building, then paint the words Bank Of Amerlca on the side of it...

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL


No no no, I'm SELLING a car, not pretending to buy one.

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

I hated your old avatar so much I paid for this one from a gay furry visual novel. gay rights and smoke weed every day

Initio posted:

I think Konstantin has it right. Complete the transaction at their bank. They can give you a legit cashiers check, or they can withdraw the $10k and hand it to you.

The biggest issue with a cashiers check or a money order is that you have no idea if itís real or not.

Just hold it up to the light, look real close at it, make a few Mmm hrmmm noises. If the guy runs away, you know it's real.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Why not just do a direct funds transfer?

Initio
Oct 29, 2007
!

Is that a thing in the US?

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!





The Lone Badger posted:

Why not just do a direct funds transfer?

What would happen if this was found to be from a compromised bank account? Could they reverse the transaction?

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

I hated your old avatar so much I paid for this one from a gay furry visual novel. gay rights and smoke weed every day

Red Oktober posted:

What would happen if this was found to be from a compromised bank account? Could they reverse the transaction?

That catch me if you can guy talks about never using his bank account in any way because once the money's gone it's gone, i think.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Initio posted:

Is that a thing in the US?

There's a few services now, Venmo (owned by PayPal) and Zelle (which seems to be advertised by banks themselves). They seem OK, I still found the services in Europe to be better though.

Initio
Oct 29, 2007
!

How much can I trust PayPal in general now?

I remember them from when eBay owned them, and they would basically not give people you their money because of a buyer/seller complaint, and essentially you had no recourse because they werenít officially a bank.

Should I be worried that the buyer would try to just reverse the transaction? Or that PayPal would because it turns out the buyer didnít actually have the funds?

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Initio posted:

How much can I trust PayPal in general now?

I remember them from when eBay owned them, and they would basically not give people you their money because of a buyer/seller complaint, and essentially you had no recourse because they werenít officially a bank.

Should I be worried that the buyer would try to just reverse the transaction? Or that PayPal would because it turns out the buyer didnít actually have the funds?

I would never trust PayPal with a significant amount of money as a seller; itís just too easy for a buyer to scam you. PayPal almost always sided with the buyer, and even if they eventually give you the money, itís on YOU to prove that the buyer is a scam artist.

Iíve sold several fairly high-dollar($5K-$15K) vehicles for cash, and Iíve either met at the DMV or the bank to do the final exchange. Cashierís checks from private parties have a terrible scam rate.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag



Yeah, between individuals just do whatever it takes to make it safe to use cash. PayPal is great for buying poo poo online or getting your roommates' rent, but it's not reliable enough for anything else.

Raldikuk
Apr 7, 2006

I'm bad with money and I want that meatball!

Corsair Pool Boy posted:

Yeah, I lived in one place where we could pick between Comcast and Verizon for cable/internet, but otherwise everywhere I've lived has a single cable/internet provider, a single power company, a single natural gas company (if it's an option at all). But it's totes not a monopoly!

No one argues they aren't a monopoly...they're referred to as natural monopolies. The reason they're called that is for any sort of utility it doesn't make sense to run duplicate lines so the only competition would be from distributors all sharing the costs of the delivery systems and using the same ones. So for natural gas you would have a set of natural gas pipelines and multiple suppliers feeding into it. For utility generation economies of scale really play a huge role so that is inefficient. Ideally a natural monopoly should be heavily regulated with pricing approved by the regulatory body.

In your case the reason comcast and verizon existed as separate internet providers is because they each maintain separate distribution systems. For comcast it is the cable tv infrastructure of coax and such and for verizon they use phone distribution of copper paired wires and fiber.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



EL BROMANCE posted:

There's a few services now, Venmo (owned by PayPal) and Zelle (which seems to be advertised by banks themselves). They seem OK, I still found the services in Europe to be better though.

Can't you just use the bank itself?
(Internet banking allows me to transfer money to any given account using an app on my phone. I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to do this in other countries?)

The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 16, 2019

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Yeah US banking sucks. I grew up and lived in the UK for 30+ years and stuff I took for granted ainít gonna happen here. My bank app basically advertises a 3rd party service to move money around -



I amaze people when I tell them back home I could send people to an ATM with nothing but a secret number that would allow them to take cash out of my account. Here i get charged $3 for the audacity of checking my balance on an ATM that doesnít belong to my bank. I pretty much only get cash from supermarkets when paying for my food.

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL


This is why I love my credit union. I can use any ATM and accept whatever ridiculous surcharge they have and I just get it refunded within a few days. I kind of hate cash only businesses, but in some cases there isn't really any way around it (like certain marijuana dispensaries for example) so if I forget to bring cash with me I can use their ATM without getting screwed for it.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





EL BROMANCE posted:

Yeah US banking sucks. I grew up and lived in the UK for 30+ years and stuff I took for granted ainít gonna happen here. My bank app basically advertises a 3rd party service to move money around -



I amaze people when I tell them back home I could send people to an ATM with nothing but a secret number that would allow them to take cash out of my account. Here i get charged $3 for the audacity of checking my balance on an ATM that doesnít belong to my bank. I pretty much only get cash from supermarkets when paying for my food.

Do they charge you for Zelle? If they do change banks. I use it all the time and it's free to send and free to receive for when I send my sister-in-law cash to buy poo poo for the kids.

I agree the ATM stuff is straight up bullshit.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Iím not sure to be honest, never had anyone ask for it. Used Venmo a few times and thatís been free, but I wonder if thatíll be the case forever.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Plus, a lot of those online services have low limits. Venmo is $3,000, which isn't enough to buy a decent car.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Konstantin posted:

Plus, a lot of those online services have low limits. Venmo is $3,000, which isn't enough to buy a decent car.

That is a good point. I've never sent more than $700-$800 at a time so I probably never bumped against the upper limit.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Proteus Jones posted:

Do they charge you for Zelle? If they do change banks. I use it all the time and it's free to send and free to receive for when I send my sister-in-law cash to buy poo poo for the kids.

BofA (yes, I should change banks) showed a Zelle popup when I signed in earlier this week. I didn't check for fees, but I will before I use it. Anyway, it's spreading in the US.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004

by Cyrano4747


College Slice

Inspector 34 posted:

I'm going to sell a car in the next couple months. I'd prefer cash but I know some people wouldn't really want to bring $10k around someone they don't know so I guess a cashier check would be alright? Isn't it money orders that can be scammed somehow? Or do I have that the wrong way around and cashier's checks are the ones to avoid?

Only accept payment in iTunes gift cards.

SomeJazzyRat
Nov 2, 2012

Hmmm...


gently caress, I just bought a bridge with old navy gift cards. :(

On a scale from 1 to 1998's Deep Impact, how screwed am I?

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL


Armageddon

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




ruh roh

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Konstantin posted:

Plus, a lot of those online services have low limits. Venmo is $3,000, which isn't enough to buy a decent car.

It's plenty for most camshows though

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

I have a tremendous hard on for MLM's so thanks to the person who posted The Dream podcast links. I found their presentation was odd though and just recently watched "Betting on Zero" which is an Herbalife doc. I've read "Merchants of Deception" which I recommend but...

I still don't think the definitive story has really been told about these companies though.

It's the ultimate scam and in many ways a microcosm of just how rigged the system is and how rich criminals get to write the rules. These business models are lovely and horrible in so many ways and have so many layers to them. From praying on greed, exploiting religion, trickle up economics, selling illusions of freedom, exploitation, indoctrination, brainwashing, victim blaming, commercialism...selling the myth that hard work equals success...

God drat it grinds my gears. These companies are legitimized behind a veneer of lobbyists, paid politicians and celebrity endorsements. They essentially manufacture right wing evangelical republican voters and blind loyal consumers. Their entire business model is based on deception and lies, building a cult of "independent business owners" that are nothing but customers. Naive people sign up to buy overpriced products and then, when they buy, say, $5,000 worth, they get a "discount" and a check for $450 that keeps them buying more. They might get a check for $2500 that they can show their friends but leave out the part that they spent 20 grand to get it.

Its like "owning" a car dealership where you just keep buying cars from Ford at sticker price and everyone you recruit does the same thing while the cars sit on the lot, undriven. Then, once you've bought enough cars, you get a price CLOSE to wholesale that your downline buys from you. To this day I hear people that should know better claim that "some people are making some decent money selling Amway". No they are not. I promise you.

The whole thing is obscene and illegal and I guess it bothers more than most scams because of its air of legitimacy. Like the Amway center in Orlando and the celebrity guest speakers they rope in to pitch this bullshit.

The definitive documentary of this scm would involve an undercover approach. Someone signs up, buys all the crap, goes to the rallies, does the pitches and robs people blind while recording it all for 5 or 10 years and I'm semi surprised no one has done that yet. But these companies are HUGE and have teams of lawyers, non disclosure agreements along with US senators and even presidents extolling their virtues. The FTC seems disinterested at best.

I wanted to keep this short but it's impossible. I hate megachurches, televangelists and MLM's more than just about anything and they're all kind of one and the same really.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



The only people making money on MLM are selling DVDs/conferences.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


BiggerBoat posted:


The definitive documentary of this scm would involve an undercover approach. Someone signs up, buys all the crap, goes to the rallies, does the pitches and robs people blind while recording it all for 5 or 10 years and I'm semi surprised no one has done that yet. But these companies are HUGE and have teams of lawyers, non disclosure agreements along with US senators and even presidents extolling their virtues. The FTC seems disinterested at best.


There are many websites, blogs, etc. by people who have been part of Amway, Herbalife, etc., and got out because they realized it was a scam and they were being bled dry, and they explain exactly how it's nothing but a scam that takes advantage of gullible, vulnerable people.

The information is out there, but it still doesn't stop people from being suckered into it. Some people can't help it, just like some people can't help believing that a Nigerian prince is going to give them $10,000,000 just for letting them use their bank account for a wire transfer. You can't fix stupid.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




I'm reading this guy's free book in PDF, it's pretty all right, especially because I went to UC Santa Cruz and saw all this dumb hippie poo poo around town.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/confessions-of-a-quack-holistic-harry-tells-the-inside-story-of-alternative-medicine/

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

MightyJoe36 posted:

There are many websites, blogs, etc. by people who have been part of Amway, Herbalife, etc., and got out because they realized it was a scam and they were being bled dry, and they explain exactly how it's nothing but a scam that takes advantage of gullible, vulnerable people.

The information is out there, but it still doesn't stop people from being suckered into it. Some people can't help it, just like some people can't help believing that a Nigerian prince is going to give them $10,000,000 just for letting them use their bank account for a wire transfer. You can't fix stupid.

One of the most common reasons people get into it is just sheer desperation. Their lives are just awful and hopeless and some MLM comes along selling hope. It's a lie of course but it's extremely tempting.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

MightyJoe36 posted:

There are many websites, blogs, etc. by people who have been part of Amway, Herbalife, etc., and got out because they realized it was a scam and they were being bled dry, and they explain exactly how it's nothing but a scam that takes advantage of gullible, vulnerable people.

The information is out there, but it still doesn't stop people from being suckered into it. Some people can't help it, just like some people can't help believing that a Nigerian prince is going to give them $10,000,000 just for letting them use their bank account for a wire transfer. You can't fix stupid.

I know. I'm talking about a film or a 6 part documentary or something where you could really see it.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


I saw this promoted tweet from this company and... I mean... is this some kind of MLM? It looks scammy but I have a hard time understanding what it is they're actually selling. What's an IMO? What's a "Rogue" IMO?

Hoshi
Jan 20, 2013

:wrongcity:


Absurd Alhazred posted:

I saw this promoted tweet from this company and... I mean... is this some kind of MLM? It looks scammy but I have a hard time understanding what it is they're actually selling. What's an IMO? What's a "Rogue" IMO?

If it's financial services it very well could be an mlm, the only acronym I'm familiar with is independent (or sometimes field/FMO) marketing organization, one of the channels companies sell annuities through

Bad Titty Puker
Nov 3, 2007

:twisty::ok::goose:!!

Soiled Meat

Looks like an insurance company plus some motivational poster weirdness

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



Absurd Alhazred posted:

is this some kind of MLM? ... I have a hard time understanding what it is they're actually selling

The answer was in your heart all along.

Original_Z
Jun 14, 2005
Z so good

BiggerBoat posted:

To this day I hear people that should know better claim that "some people are making some decent money selling Amway". No they are not. I promise you.

The dream does find someone whoís pretty successful at the business and is one of the top people in the state and their income is only something like $46,000, I mean I guess itís all right but even if you do ďplay the gameĒ correctly you still wonít be getting Lamborghini money and if youíre that good at marketing and sales then you can probably make a lot more almost anywhere else. They also talk about the disconnect about how the corporate people talk about buying $750,000 homes with no sense of shame.

bamhand
Apr 15, 2010


750K will get you a modest townhome where I live, and that's probably still much cheaper than in a major city. Now let me tell you how real estate is a scam.

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 11 days!


bamhand posted:

Now let me tell you how real estate is a scam.
Okie dokie.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Original_Z posted:

The dream does find someone whoís pretty successful at the business and is one of the top people in the state and their income is only something like $46,000, I mean I guess itís all right but even if you do ďplay the gameĒ correctly you still wonít be getting Lamborghini money and if youíre that good at marketing and sales then you can probably make a lot more almost anywhere else. They also talk about the disconnect about how the corporate people talk about buying $750,000 homes with no sense of shame.

It's one of those situations where they aren't technically lying as there are a few people making a crap ton of money off of it. What they never tell you is that that's a very small handful of people at the top in the inner circle and I'll let you in on a secret; you aren't getting in. Ever. I forget the numbers but the amount of people actually making any decent money off of MLM is somewhere in the single digit percentages toward the low end; like 1% or some poo poo. People making six figures doing it is in the fraction of a percent.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply