Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!


I just completed annual security training for my work. Hell is a place where they make you play "spot the phish" flash games forever.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


wizzardstaff posted:

I just completed annual security training for my work. Hell is a place where they make you play "spot the phish" flash games forever.

Your answer has been recorded. Your personal hell is being prepared now.
Please login here to cancel this adjustment:
http://https.login.microsoft.com.portal.office.com.misosoft.co.nz/auth/hell/msad74921?authid=shs673829927373793&guid=iwiwoeuriHhsu

Wrex Ruckus
Aug 24, 2015

Rich people sure are different.


So I've noticed that I and others get scam texts for gift card giveaways in some weird amount like $110 or $115. Anyone know why they choose those numbers?

Inceltown
Aug 6, 2019



Wrex Ruckus posted:

So I've noticed that I and others get scam texts for gift card giveaways in some weird amount like $110 or $115. Anyone know why they choose those numbers?

Odds on if you ever see something about a scam that makes it obviously look off then it's to weed out the people who aren't going to fall for the scam. It's a test to see if you're going to be wasting their time. You only want the most credulous of people so you do everything you can to make sure no one else takes up the people you have working the scam.

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

wizzardstaff posted:

I just completed annual security training for my work. Hell is a place where they make you play "spot the phish" flash games forever.

We had to do that same training again because one of the obvious "click on this link" emails got through our company's system and five goddamn people clicked on it. (One of them was a team lead, and another was a manager ofc).

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Inceltown posted:

Odds on if you ever see something about a scam that makes it obviously look off then it's to weed out the people who aren't going to fall for the scam. It's a test to see if you're going to be wasting their time. You only want the most credulous of people so you do everything you can to make sure no one else takes up the people you have working the scam.

I was also thinking they have different sets of emails they send out and each one has a unique dollar amount assigned to them. That would make it easier to see which email got more traction.

nonathlon
Jul 9, 2004
And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

That dinari saga is wild, thanks for posting it. Amazing that it seems to have condensed out of thin air, there's literally not a single piece of truth about it.

EL BROMANCE posted:

FFS, it's looking like for the SECOND TIME IN A loving WEEK a credit card of mine has been cloned. Different provider to the one that happened a week ago (I lent my friend the card to get gas, and I think it had a skimmer on it) so it's not related to that, but two <$2 charges to a store called Mercari that looks to be online based. This is insane. Every single card I've had in the states has been cloned, no matter how few times it's been used - the first card back a year or two ago had been used a grand total of THREE times by me before Hulu and Xbox purchases were made on it.

What does a skimmer look like? Obviously enough like the real thing, but at a job I once had, we were regularly told someone had fit a skimmer to the nearest ATM and to "beware". But I was never sure what to look for.

Blue Moonlight
Apr 28, 2005
Bitter and Sarcastic

nonathlon posted:

What does a skimmer look like? Obviously enough like the real thing, but at a job I once had, we were regularly told someone had fit a skimmer to the nearest ATM and to "beware". But I was never sure what to look for.

They can be pretty clever:

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





nonathlon posted:

That dinari saga is wild, thanks for posting it. Amazing that it seems to have condensed out of thin air, there's literally not a single piece of truth about it.


What does a skimmer look like? Obviously enough like the real thing, but at a job I once had, we were regularly told someone had fit a skimmer to the nearest ATM and to "beware". But I was never sure what to look for.

The ones I’ve encountered are injection molded plastic or 3D printed parts that are pretty close to the shape of the part on the ATM or gas pump they go over. They’re usually identifiable by color being off, uneven paint job, poor quality of the molding, or obviously 3D printed and not finished well. When in doubt pull on it, they’re often applied with double sided tape and will detach with hand manipulation or being pried up with a key while a legit component won’t move with those. There are larger or more sophisticated ones that cover the whole front of an ATM or gas pump but those are rare in the US.

Edit: for example in the photo above the color is off just a little.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



If we could just convince banks and payment processors to drop the lovely magnetic strip skimming would go away.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


If they could get merchants to switch en masse they probably would do away with the strip. Banks don't like losing money due to fraud.

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG

Collateral Damage posted:

If we could just convince banks and payment processors to drop the lovely magnetic strip skimming would go away.

Or at the very least the business model would move away from cloning cards to charging NFC transactions in the lowest common amount that banks set.
Not nearly as profitable, and a lot easier to trace because they'd need a receiving account with a real financial institution.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Skimming only works on the magstripe right? I don't think I've used that for... must be at least five years. Probably more.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



The Lone Badger posted:

Skimming only works on the magstripe right? I don't think I've used that for... must be at least five years. Probably more.
Yep. But any terminal where you fully insert the card (gas pumps and ATMs for instance) is still vulnerable to skimming the magstripe, even if the terminal itself uses the chip. There are a few ways of attacking the chip itself, but they are much harder to pull off and less powerful than traditional skimming.

If you never use the magstripe and are confident that you'll never need it you can just run a magnet over the stripe a few times to scramble the data.

nonathlon
Jul 9, 2004
And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

Blue Moonlight posted:

They can be pretty clever:



That's a lot more professional than I imagined. Thought it would be some clunky, obvious thing. Thanks!

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



They're still fairly obvious if you know what you're looking for, but could be easily missed if its an unfamiliar style of ATM.

Kerbtree
Sep 8, 2008

BAD FALCON!
LAZY!


Collateral Damage posted:

Yep. But any terminal where you fully insert the card (gas pumps and ATMs for instance) is still vulnerable to skimming the magstripe, even if the terminal itself uses the chip. There are a few ways of attacking the chip itself, but they are much harder to pull off and less powerful than traditional skimming.


But once a country moves off using the stripe, fraud detection systems can be set to flag stripe transactions on home turf as automatically weird.

On a related note:

I work for the fraud department of the UK bank. Styles of scames goes in waves. Seeing a resurgence in HMRC stuff that went away for a while.

Pekinduck
May 10, 2008


I actually have a friend who used to do IT for a bank. Its been a cat-and-mouse game dealing with skimming. The skimmer devices used to be obvious but are now very well made and hard to detect. Some are tiny and thin and actually jammed inside the card slot. Modern ATM equipment has countermeasures though.



The two circles below the slot are photodetectors that can tell if a skimmer has been placed over the reader. The ATM itself has these too.

On retail terminals they sometimes glue a rubber wedge that looks like a keyboard key to prevent a skimmer being placed over it. Its effective because the criminal has little time to attach a skimmer at a retail location. They ask the cashier for cigs and slap it on while they're turned around.

Gas pumps have notoriously bad security, they can be opened right up and a skimmer plugged into the cable going from the card reader to the pump computer. They've been putting security stickers over the door but I always see these ripped off so who knows.

A lot of their effort is focused on the spending end, detecting suspicious usage patterns and shutting down ways to convert stolen cards to cash.

I went on forever but I find this stuff fascinating.

nishi koichi
Feb 16, 2007

everyone feels that way and gives up.
that's how they get away with it.


or the whole drat thing:

https://gfycat.com/sandyuniqueant

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Those are the hardest to spot, but they're also expensive and kind of hard to install. They're not commonly seen in the US though if I remember correctly parts of Central and South America as well as Eastern Europe had a rash of complete overlay skimmers several years ago.

nishi koichi
Feb 16, 2007

everyone feels that way and gives up.
that's how they get away with it.


Midjack posted:

Those are the hardest to spot, but they're also expensive and kind of hard to install. They're not commonly seen in the US though if I remember correctly parts of Central and South America as well as Eastern Europe had a rash of complete overlay skimmers several years ago.

these big ones are obviously well made and incredibly sophisticated, are they something atm manufacturers design and build for other clients with cash and no questions asked, or something?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





bad posts ahead!!! posted:

these big ones are obviously well made and incredibly sophisticated, are they something atm manufacturers design and build for other clients with cash and no questions asked, or something?

I doubt that they’d do it wittingly, they would have to be custom made for each customer’s deployment of ATM so it would be really obvious where they were coming from. You do have to have access to a real machine to make one that will fit over it well enough and not fall off. My understanding is that many of them are made mainly from OEM parts purchased through repair channels with some custom electronics and attachment hardware on the backside.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


I've had something weird happen to me twice on AbeBooks: I order a book from a seller, get a confirmation of the order, then get not tracking number for at least a week, ask them where the tracking number is, get some weird bullshit about here being a miscommunication with the delivery company or something, then when I ask for another update they say the item got lost and issue me a refund. Is the idea that a lot of people might forget they've ordered it, or might not use the extremely simple contact interface to ask what was up?

Pekinduck
May 10, 2008


Absurd Alhazred posted:

I've had something weird happen to me twice on AbeBooks: I order a book from a seller, get a confirmation of the order, then get not tracking number for at least a week, ask them where the tracking number is, get some weird bullshit about here being a miscommunication with the delivery company or something, then when I ask for another update they say the item got lost and issue me a refund. Is the idea that a lot of people might forget they've ordered it, or might not use the extremely simple contact interface to ask what was up?

This has happened to me too and Ive wondered that. Maybe they're just incompetent though.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005

by Fluffdaddy


Plaster Town Cop

If even 10% of people forget to follow up on their impulse buys then that's a lot of easy pure profit

-Zydeco-
Nov 12, 2007




Absurd Alhazred posted:

I've had something weird happen to me twice on AbeBooks: I order a book from a seller, get a confirmation of the order, then get not tracking number for at least a week, ask them where the tracking number is, get some weird bullshit about here being a miscommunication with the delivery company or something, then when I ask for another update they say the item got lost and issue me a refund. Is the idea that a lot of people might forget they've ordered it, or might not use the extremely simple contact interface to ask what was up?

Maybe allowing their website to oversell their stock assuming they will have some cancellations or get a new shipment in soon enough to cover? As long as you don't complain they let it ride until they can cover the order. If you do complain they just cancel. I had an Amazon seller do that. Sold me a desk showing 5 in stock and then just kept pushing the expected ship date every week.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


-Zydeco- posted:

Maybe allowing their website to oversell their stock assuming they will have some cancellations or get a new shipment in soon enough to cover? As long as you don't complain they let it ride until they can cover the order. If you do complain they just cancel. I had an Amazon seller do that. Sold me a desk showing 5 in stock and then just kept pushing the expected ship date every week.

Except they didn't communicate any progress until I bugged them, and even then they didn't say anything about the end date being postponed.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Absurd Alhazred posted:

I've had something weird happen to me twice on AbeBooks: I order a book from a seller, get a confirmation of the order, then get not tracking number for at least a week, ask them where the tracking number is, get some weird bullshit about here being a miscommunication with the delivery company or something, then when I ask for another update they say the item got lost and issue me a refund. Is the idea that a lot of people might forget they've ordered it, or might not use the extremely simple contact interface to ask what was up?

I'll have to keep an eye out for that. I often buy like 10 books at once and then the order gets fragmented into a ton of smaller orders which trickle in over weeks, so it's likely that unless it was the book I was after and not an add-on Gene Wolfe novel or something, I'd not notice.

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010


goons are old now, but has any goon gotten a grandpa/grandparent scam and actually played along?

i got one but hung up at the very start.

The American Dream
Mar 1, 2007
Don't Forget My Balls

Absurd Alhazred posted:

I've had something weird happen to me twice on AbeBooks: I order a book from a seller, get a confirmation of the order, then get not tracking number for at least a week, ask them where the tracking number is, get some weird bullshit about here being a miscommunication with the delivery company or something, then when I ask for another update they say the item got lost and issue me a refund. Is the idea that a lot of people might forget they've ordered it, or might not use the extremely simple contact interface to ask what was up?

My local used book store writes down every book sold on a note pad and then removes it from I assume Abe/amazon and eBay later that day.

So it might be a case of the store forgetting to remove it or someone stealing the book. Or just getting put back in the wrong section and getting lost.

MonkeyBot
Mar 11, 2005

OMG ITZ MONKEYBOT

We just had either a really dumb scam attempt or just a really dumb delivery person. Wife ordered groceries from Target because COVID is a good reason to be lazy. It was a fairly large order, almost $200. After everything was delivered my wife was going through the order and the receipt and comparing them and there were 3 $7 bags of nuts and a bag of avocados added to our order. Something like $25 extra of poo poo that we didn't order nor did we receieve in our delivery. The only way this scam would've worked (assuming that's what it was and not just an idiot delivery person) is because Shipt adds 25% to the initial bill for approval in case of changes to the order then adjusts to the actual total after it's all been completed. The extra poo poo would've been within this allowance so maybe the Shipt worker assumed we wouldn't notice? Everything was resolved and refunded the next day with a call to Target but I'm still pretty sure that was one of the laziest grifts I've ever seen.

bamhand
Apr 15, 2010


Speaking of delivery scams. We ordered something through Doordash but got somebody's Grubhub order instead. Went to the Doordash website and put in a complaint, got an automated message saying a credit had been issued for the order. 10 days later, no credit. We contact customer support and they say it's now too late for us to contest the issue. We went into the Doordash website and took a screenshot of the message saying we got a credit and they just completely ignored the email. So now we're doing a credit card charge back.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag


bamhand posted:

Speaking of delivery scams. We ordered something through Doordash but got somebody's Grubhub order instead. Went to the Doordash website and put in a complaint, got an automated message saying a credit had been issued for the order. 10 days later, no credit. We contact customer support and they say it's now too late for us to contest the issue. We went into the Doordash website and took a screenshot of the message saying we got a credit and they just completely ignored the email. So now we're doing a credit card charge back.

Doordash is nuts, I drive for them for a little extra money and when I couldn't get on a military base to deliver an order they told me to leave it on the sidewalk and drive away, and that they would not be refunding the customer. It's one of the better options where I live as a driver, but I'd never use it as a customer after that incident and a couple others.

bamhand
Apr 15, 2010


Are they just counting on people to be too lazy to destroy them with credit card disputes?

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





My roommate worked for doordash for a couple years and yeah they're insane. I guess there are some stores that won't/can't go through Doordash's usual payment system, so instead of you paying doordash, doordash forwarding that money sans fees on to the restaurant, and the dasher just picking up the order, the dasher has to use a credit card given to them by Doordash preloaded with money to pay for it at pickup. Well multiple times they forgot to reload the card and my roommate wouldn't be able to pay for the food, and each time support would tell him "oh well then use your own card and we'll reimburse you." It eventually happened enough times (and a few instances where they "forgot" to reimburse him and he had to hound them for it) that he put his foot down and the support person told him that if he didn't pay with his own card and complete the order they'd deactivate his app (ie: fire him).

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Most of those apps take ridiculous charges from the restaurants too.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





I asked the head manager at a place I used to frequent often before COVID what Doordash takes from them, and he told me that it's apparently something you bargain with them. Doordash originally came at them demanding a 25% cut but they were able to negotiate it down to 18%. Note that this is a well liked and frequented business that has three locations in town and is in the process of opening a fourth up north. So my guess is that if you're a small mom and pop then gently caress you either you eat 25% or they walk, if you're reasonably successful you can hover around ~20%, and I'd imagine national chains are even lower then that.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Sydin posted:

I asked the head manager at a place I used to frequent often before COVID what Doordash takes from them, and he told me that it's apparently something you bargain with them. Doordash originally came at them demanding a 25% cut but they were able to negotiate it down to 18%. Note that this is a well liked and frequented business that has three locations in town and is in the process of opening a fourth up north. So my guess is that if you're a small mom and pop then gently caress you either you eat 25% or they walk, if you're reasonably successful you can hover around ~20%, and I'd imagine national chains are even lower then that.

Yeah that's hosed.

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001

The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics. Oh, and that stupid children's book 'The Little Prince,' ugh.
:krad:


Yams Fan

CommonShore posted:

Yeah that's hosed.
I keep thinking that there is room for a 'delivery' app that simply pays the delivery person whatever the app charges and pays the restaurant retail. Cutting the unicorn middleman out would save a fortune.
Same with 'car sharing'.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

Sydin posted:

I asked the head manager at a place I used to frequent often before COVID what Doordash takes from them, and he told me that it's apparently something you bargain with them. Doordash originally came at them demanding a 25% cut but they were able to negotiate it down to 18%. Note that this is a well liked and frequented business that has three locations in town and is in the process of opening a fourth up north. So my guess is that if you're a small mom and pop then gently caress you either you eat 25% or they walk, if you're reasonably successful you can hover around ~20%, and I'd imagine national chains are even lower then that.

Yeah, a local family-run place by me doesn't have any online ordering, so the fist time I ordered, I went through GrubHub/DoorDash/whatever. When I picked it up, the owner told me I should just call them in the future, since otherwise they're being charged a 25% fee for nothing. (Their food is pure crack, and they give me a free lassi every time I come by, so I make sure to call now.)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply