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dr.acula
May 9, 2009

Billions and billions of fat clouds



Does anyone have any words about being scammed on ebay as a seller? I have some cards that are apparently worth something but i have 0 experience selling on that platform. Sorry if its been mentioned before, I just sorta Kramered on into the thread.

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Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





dr.acula posted:

Does anyone have any words about being scammed on ebay as a seller? I have some cards that are apparently worth something but i have 0 experience selling on that platform. Sorry if its been mentioned before, I just sorta Kramered on into the thread.

This is a good thread about selling on eBay: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3867568

It’s in TFR but not about selling gun stuff.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Regarding auto sales: there was a guy who worked as an auto broker (buyer hires him, he finds the car you wanted) on Jalopnik who used to spend quite a few columns bitching about the internet/actual price disconnect. He used to deal with slimeball dealers pulling the “well actually” thing with prices/fees/etc all the time. His usual response was to move on but he was hitting up multiple states worth of dealers because he was doing it over the internet and also...for a living.

Fake edit: He’s still there: https://jalopnik.com/author/tommcparland

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002


goatsestretchgoals posted:

Regarding auto sales: there was a guy who worked as an auto broker (buyer hires him, he finds the car you wanted) on Jalopnik who used to spend quite a few columns bitching about the internet/actual price disconnect. He used to deal with slimeball dealers pulling the “well actually” thing with prices/fees/etc all the time. His usual response was to move on but he was hitting up multiple states worth of dealers because he was doing it over the internet and also...for a living.

Fake edit: He’s still there: https://jalopnik.com/author/tommcparland

Auto brokers are the very best, if you know what you want and aren't good at doing the legwork and the haggling, I 100% recommend them.

dr.acula
May 9, 2009

Billions and billions of fat clouds



Midjack posted:

This is a good thread about selling on eBay: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3867568

It’s in TFR but not about selling gun stuff.

Will give it a read, thanks!

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013




Businesses that train the homeless in job skills and productivity; are those a scam? Do they usually pay a wage worth a drat to those they're "training?" Knowing what I do about Amerikkka, these human interest stories leave a bad loving taste in my mouth lately. Just this morning there's one about a coffee shop that trains homeless teens in vital job skills and the business owner could be fully legit in her desire to help people, but it's really making me :thunk:.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010



It probably varies on the program. The Reveal podcast did a really thorough investigation on rehab work camps that are linked to the prison system that was pretty damning. It's called American Rehab.

An interesting detail I got from it is that a surprisingly large amount of the US workforce is unpaid labour. There are hundreds of thousands of people in these programs.

E: the issues they found were unsafe working conditions, illegal working hours, poor living conditions and executives being paid crazy amounts of money. A lot of these programs are classified as charities and/or religious organizations so they are exempt from OSHA and other regulations, depending on the state.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Dec 22, 2020

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013




Is it like that one where some "Christian" "recovery" program had basically enslaved recovering addicts who were imprisoned in order to do meat processing and force them to do bible study and a bunch of other absolute horseshit, under threat of reincarceration should they not find the exploitation to their liking?

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010



Tubgoat posted:

Is it like that one where some "Christian" "recovery" program had basically enslaved recovering addicts to do meat processing and force them to do bible study and a bunch of other absolute horseshit, under threat of reincarceration should they not find the exploitation to their liking?

Some of the organizations are spiritual, but they subscribe to a hosed up group therapy where the group takes turns shouting for 10 minutes at an individual for their flaws and shortcomings. It was supposed to be an honest reality check at the start but of course it devolves into finding ways to narc on others in order to climb up the totem pole. I forget exactly what that group was called. Podcast was like 8 hours long and pretty grim listening.

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013




Oh wow, so it cribs some of the syllabus from those camps where rich parents send their teenagers to be kidnapped and tortured. Wunderbar!

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010



Tubgoat posted:

Oh wow, so it cribs some of the syllabus from those camps where rich parents send their teenagers to be kidnapped and tortured. Wunderbar!
I looked it up - the original group was called Synanon. It was a counter-cultural group from the 50's that eventually saw some success as an alternative to AA. If anything, they probably get the credit for inventing the model :haw:

I don't want to say all work programs are bad though. I remember my hometown had a tiny farm attached to one of our prisons and some of the inmates actually rioted when it was closed down. Guess they liked it well enough there.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Fruits of the sea posted:

I looked it up - the original group was called Synanon. It was a counter-cultural group from the 50's that eventually saw some success as an alternative to AA. If anything, they probably get the credit for inventing the model :haw:

You can’t mention Synanon and not talk about how they employed admitted thugs who beat people so badly they fractured their skulls, then put live rattlesnakes in the mailboxes of the attorney who brought a lawsuit on behalf of ex-members. :D

Seriously, the Wikipedia entry is completely insane.

subpar anachronism
Jan 15, 2005

...I can't!



Also would be remiss to mention Synanon without the programs that lifted off their philosophy for "troubled teens" like Elan School which was basically just a vehicle for child abuse like regularly making students be screamed at by everyone else in the room or kept in a corner for days or weeks

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

Piggybacking on that, if you want to be absolutely horrified, check out this autobiographical comic from a dude who survived Elan.

https://elan.school/

The part that made me angriest was that his parents didn't believe him after he was released, even when he showed them proof. The entire thing is so very hosed up.

subpar anachronism
Jan 15, 2005

...I can't!



hyperhazard posted:

Piggybacking on that, if you want to be absolutely horrified, check out this autobiographical comic from a dude who survived Elan.

https://elan.school/

The part that made me angriest was that his parents didn't believe him after he was released, even when he showed them proof. The entire thing is so very hosed up.

Seconding this link. The story's not over but there's enough to read to give you a look into how loving horrific it was.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Fruits of the sea posted:

I don't want to say all work programs are bad though. I remember my hometown had a tiny farm attached to one of our prisons and some of the inmates actually rioted when it was closed down. Guess they liked it well enough there.

The problem with that is that "better than sitting around in prison" is a pretty low bar to clear so prisoners liking it isn't really any indication that it wasn't horrible.

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!





hyperhazard posted:

Piggybacking on that, if you want to be absolutely horrified, check out this autobiographical comic from a dude who survived Elan.

https://elan.school/

The part that made me angriest was that his parents didn't believe him after he was released, even when he showed them proof. The entire thing is so very hosed up.

:aaa:

I don’t have much more to add than :aaa::aaa::aaaaa:

tight aspirations
Jul 13, 2009



subpar anachronism posted:

Seconding this link. The story's not over but there's enough to read to give you a look into how loving horrific it was.

I really don't understand how this isn't literal kidnapping and slavery.

nishi koichi
Feb 16, 2007

everyone feels that way and gives up.
that's how they get away with it.


tight aspirations posted:

I really don't understand how this isn't literal kidnapping and slavery.

children have no rights here and this country devours its young

TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009



Fruits of the sea posted:

Some of the organizations are spiritual, but they subscribe to a hosed up group therapy where the group takes turns shouting for 10 minutes at an individual for their flaws and shortcomings. It was supposed to be an honest reality check at the start but of course it devolves into finding ways to narc on others in order to climb up the totem pole. I forget exactly what that group was called. Podcast was like 8 hours long and pretty grim listening.

I'm pretty sure I saw this. Was it the comic about someone's time at a forced childrens rehabilitation 'school' that was more brainwashing program?

Edit: gently caress, that'll teach me to read a few more posts before hitting reply.

Thanatosian
Apr 16, 2013

Angrier, Bitterer Man


Grimey Drawer

tight aspirations posted:

I really don't understand how this isn't literal kidnapping and slavery.

You're thinking of children as people instead of chattel property.

We won't sign the UN Declaration on the Rights of the Child because it won't let us murder children.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Thanatosian posted:

You're thinking of children as people instead of chattel property.

We won't sign the UN Declaration on the Rights of the Child because it won't let us murder children.

We actually have signed it, we just refuse to be a party to it. Which is incredibly on brand for the USA and allows us to go "hey look see we totally support this human rights treaty!" but then we get called on the awful poo poo we do like sentencing children as adults we can throw up our hands and go "well hey hold on now, we never actually agreed to be bound by the text of the treaty, we just support it!"

:911: :911: :911:

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


hyperhazard posted:

Piggybacking on that, if you want to be absolutely horrified, check out this autobiographical comic from a dude who survived Elan.

https://elan.school/

The part that made me angriest was that his parents didn't believe him after he was released, even when he showed them proof. The entire thing is so very hosed up.

Holy. poo poo. Went down this rabbithole and I'm not sure I wanted to know about this attrocity. 40 loving years.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

SEKCobra posted:

Holy. poo poo. Went down this rabbithole and I'm not sure I wanted to know about this attrocity. 40 loving years.

Same. Stumbled across a documentary called "The Last Hope Stop" that's on Amazon Prime if anyone's interested.

edit: The Last Stop

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Dec 23, 2020

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


BiggerBoat posted:

Same. Stumbled across a documentary called "The Last Hope" that's on Amazon Prime if anyone's interested.

Sure about the name? Couldn't find it, even via google.

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020


SEKCobra posted:

Holy. poo poo. Went down this rabbithole and I'm not sure I wanted to know about this attrocity. 40 loving years.

According to Wikipedia, Elan is closed (and also was given money by several public school districts!), but there are so many more of these creepy places all over the country.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


SEKCobra posted:

Sure about the name? Couldn't find it, even via google.

Try The Last Stop

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

SEKCobra posted:

Sure about the name? Couldn't find it, even via google.

Whoops. My bad

The Last Stop

https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stop-Liz-Arnold/dp/B086WNX5Y9

fixed

Original_Z
Jun 14, 2005
Z so good

Yeesh, and that school was only shut down in 2011. I'd say that I'm amazed it lasted that long, but then reading something like this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Educational_Center

Somehow a school that has been condemned for using torture on their students is not only still going on, but it wasn't until this year that they were banned from using electric shock therapy! The page lists several other methods to torture their students that apparently haven't been banned yet, how the hell is a place like this still running?

Original_Z fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Dec 24, 2020

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


Original_Z posted:

how the hell is a place like this still running?



e. vv lol, I went full :sever: with my parents over similar trick poo poo. It was building after they accused me of kicking my kid (tl;dr: kid unintentionally nut-shot me reaching for a hug, I used my shin to keep my yarbles away from tiny flailing fists in response), but the breaking point was after my mom tried to make us feel bad for starting our kid on a stimulant medication. I pointed out that if I learned to hit children from anywhere it was from them, also the meds are working and I'll never feel bad about it.

Boomers are some broke-brain circle-of-abuse-continuing motherfuckers.

Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Dec 24, 2020

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Original_Z posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Educational_Center

Somehow a school that has been condemned for using torture on their students is not only still going on, but it wasn't until this year that they were banned from using electric shock therapy! The page lists several other methods to torture their students that apparently haven't been banned yet, how the hell is a place like this still running?

"We're too soft on these loving millenial kids who wine about everything and don't realize how good they have it. People with addiction problems and mental illness are soft and just need a good kick in the rear end!"

My son was recently diagnosed as bordeline on the spectrum and for years my Mom would keep telling me all he needed was a good rear end whooping and thought I was loving up as a parent because I told her "I don't hit children". You'd think she'd know better given she was bipolar, suicidal and a child rape victim herself who HATED people telling her to "suck it up" and "get tough" but I think, at heart, a lot of people simply want others to suffer and be punished as much as they were/are.

Or, when things get hard, it's easy to get exasperated and fall back on:

- Hit the problem
- Yell at the Problem
- Punish the problem
- Prey at the problem

Also seems like a common denominator for these schools is rich people not wanting to raise their kids so add

- SPend money on the problem

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Dec 24, 2020

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK


Guest2553 posted:

[timg]tl;dr: kid unintentionally nut-shot me reaching for a hug

Did it at least make an amusing "zzzoink" sound effect?

Mister Mind
Mar 20, 2009

I'm not a real doctor,
But I am a real worm;
I am an actual worm


If I might derail this thread slightly, what’s the deal with phone/pad app ads that claim to be “hey, play and win BIG CASH!” They just smell so strongly of SCAM that I’d never go near them, but what’s the mechanism?

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?





most of them are just "show a million ads" and never actually pay out whatever it is that they're claiming to give you

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013




If you watch/listen to all their bullshit and jump through all their hoops you might be selected to take a survey or series of surveys that pay money except oops you don't qualify to participate for whatever demographic reason, but if you give us even more information, we'll string you along as we saturate every single email field from here to Siberia with your personally-identifiable information.

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?


There's also things like Snatch, where you "win prizes" by capturing boxes and holding them for a few hours. They occasionally give out decent cash prizes or consoles or the like but most prizes are slightly better than you'll find googling free trials to places. So yeah, marketing. Plus they sell you in game items to make holding your boxes easier. So with them it's a mix of in app purchases and the money they get for sending millions of users to their sponsors.

They are completely legit, and despite never spending a penny I did win £20 cash there once, but as a user you are their product, not their customer. They basically work on the Facebook / Google / influencer profit model only in a more fun way.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Sounds like it's just another variant of the "Punch the Monkey and Win 20 Bucks!" sites that have existed since the 90s. You would punch the monkey in the interactive banner ad and be taken to moneytree.com or something, which was a tree graphic with thousands of clickable squares. Every one I ever clicked was just an ad but allegedly some would pay out $20. Or more likely the square you picked had nothing to do with the payout and it worked more like a slot machine. Pretty compelling when you're a 9 year old with a ton of free time and no money.

The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 27, 2020

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


Lol that reminds me of a good one SA had way back when, "follow the target with a magnet to get a new monitor". I had that one and the virtual confessional saved on an old hard drive.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

I've been watching some MLM videos since that's sort of a hot spot for me and one thing that never gets pointed about the people supposedly making money at it is that very little of it is profit.

You basically sign up to buy products from the company and sign up other people to do the same. No one SELLS this poo poo. They just buy it. But they COUNT as sales. Amway or whoever doesn't give a poo poo if you store 2 tons of soap in the garage or dump it in a river. The goal - and the reason the DeVos family is worth so much - is to get people to slavishly buy overpriced products from Amway itself. That's why they use cult like tactics while preaching independence and freedom as a way of developing brand loyalty. When in reality, you're a slave to Amway itself.

And I loving hate it when someone points out that "I know a friend show made decent money doing it".

No..you...don't. And, no they didn't.

They might show you a check they got for, say, $2000. What they don't show you is how much they spent on product to receive it. That money is not profit but more like a rebate. You bought $3000 worth of Amway poo poo that cost them $500 to produce and they send you a "bonus" of $2000. They just made $500 dollars and you made jack poo poo but your mind makes you think that you made 2 grand. My numbers might be way off but that's the model. It's not even a commission.

Also, none of this factors in the books, seminars, meetings and all that poo poo nor the time investment NOR the fact that you will never, EVER sell their crap at a markup because it's very expensive. You mostly give it away to rope in other suckers and also find yourself stocking your entire home with nothing but Amway products, which is pretty amazing when you think about it. Imagine ONLY shopping at Target, WalMart or Costco and what those companies would do to make that happen.

I used Amway in this example but it's the same model for all these companies. If you get in on day one and stay with it I suppose you'll do quite well but after that? Nope.

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Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010



A customer at an old job was pretty into MLM's, he spent a really long time trying to sell us on some overpriced matcha tea powder. He came around often enough that I managed to have some good critical conversations about the business model with him.

Interestingly, he acknowledged that it was a tough business, but he said the real way to get ahead was to participate in as many MLMs as possible. Apparently he was participating in 8 different mlms at the time. Occasionally he'd bring in ESL/exchange students that he was trying to enroll :smith:

e: I doubt it was working, the dude always stank of desperation. I feel bad for his wife and kids.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jan 5, 2021

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