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Tunicate
May 15, 2012





BiggerBoat posted:

The trick is for Amway/Cutco/Herbalife to turn the salespeople into the customers, which is why they push recruiting so much since that means more "independent business owners" doing nothing more than buying poo poo from the parent company. There's really nothing more to it. Even the people "making money at it" aren't because what they'll show you is, say, a $500 check they got without mentioning they bought $3000 worth of overpriced poo poo that cost Amway $400 to manufacture.

That check they show you (IF they show it to you) is nothing more than a rebate, plain and simple. It'd be like if I told you could make loads of money buying cars since I got a $2,000 check for buying this Toyota and $100 for getting other people to do the same except the loving car cost me 28 grand.

MLM's also tell their "business owners" that they can write all this poo poo off on their taxes as a business expense. They can't. Especially since 99% of them don't make enough money to even itemize in the first place but more to the point since it's not a "business" and you don't "own" a loving thing.

I mean... except for closets, spare rooms and garages full of unsold soap, crystals, leggings, vitamins and poo poo. You definitely own those, will never resell them and none of that poo poo is tax deductible.

Only way to really make money in an MLM is to start an MLM.

you can definitely deduct the cost of goods sold from your taxes.

Emphasis on 'sold'.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Tunicate posted:

you can definitely deduct the cost of goods sold from your taxes.

Emphasis on 'sold'.

Exactly. But Amway and their ilk make it sound like anything you spend doing it is a business expense. You can't write off that conference you went to or that car you rented.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





BiggerBoat posted:

Exactly. But Amway and their ilk make it sound like anything you spend doing it is a business expense. You can't write off that conference you went to or that car you rented.

Nah you can deduct those too

https://quickbooks.intuit.com/r/taxes/what-you-can-and-cant-write-off-with-business-travel/

"Conference fees, equipment rental, and miscellany

Any expenses you incur that are necessary for your business trip, like registration for an event, renting equipment for a presentation, or dry cleaning and laundry for your business apparel, all qualify for tax deduction."

"Transportation

Whether you fly, take a train or bus, or rent a car to get to your business meetings or conference, you can deduct the expense. Toll and parking fees qualify, as well. And don’t forget your standard mileage rate deduction. For every mile you drive for business, you can currently deduct 54.5 cents. This offsets what you spend on gas and upkeep on the car (it counts whether it’s your own car or a rental). Taxi rides count too, so make sure to get a receipt."

Parallelwoody
Apr 9, 2008



I got a hand addressed letter to me in the mail today from a guy in california promising I'll get rich if I buy five books of 20 stamps and send one to each of the five people on the list, who had their names and addresses included. "Say this ten times: STAMPS ARE AS GOOD AS CASH MONEY"

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science



Sanford posted:

A young woman I know called Josie got into some MLM selling healing crystals, soothing bath salts, etc earlier this year. I think it's homeopathic nonsense but she found and lost three jobs during Covid so whatever. She's made a small profit selling them on local facebook and similar - she says she's up about 20% on her initial investment, with about a quarter of her original stock purchase remaining.

Her mum was telling me yesterday they had a team call where she was first pressured and then straight up insulted for not buying any of a new range "until she sells what she's got". Then she got publicly shamed for being the only person in the local team not to bring anyone in on their regular calls for new recruits. Then finally they asked if anyone would like to talk about their success, which a handful of people did, including Josie. She was the only one to reference making a profit, which one of the leaders said she should reinvest. Josie said she'd like to but she's got bills to pay, and was reprimanded for "not having the right attitude."

Expecting to pay bills with profits from your MLM = the wrong attitude. Actually I can see where they're coming from...
If she can make money selling that garbage in an MLM, she must be truly gifted at sales. She could probably make a lot more money at a real sales job.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Parallelwoody posted:

I got a hand addressed letter to me in the mail today from a guy in california promising I'll get rich if I buy five books of 20 stamps and send one to each of the five people on the list, who had their names and addresses included. "Say this ten times: STAMPS ARE AS GOOD AS CASH MONEY"

The primordial Ponzi scheme rises from its feculent grave!

Sanford
Jun 30, 2007

...and rarely post!



Dik Hz posted:

If she can make money selling that garbage in an MLM, she must be truly gifted at sales. She could probably make a lot more money at a real sales job.

She was clearing the equivalent of a £30k salary in commission sales on the make up counter in Debenhams before all this, so she's good at sales. I'm more inclined to say her turning a profit is a combination of 1) actually selling stuff rather than "recruiting", 2) no-one else is doing it round here (yet), and 3) people are bored and if you make an order today she'll probably stick it through your door half an hour later.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Tunicate posted:

Nah you can deduct those too

https://quickbooks.intuit.com/r/taxes/what-you-can-and-cant-write-off-with-business-travel/

"Conference fees, equipment rental, and miscellany

Any expenses you incur that are necessary for your business trip, like registration for an event, renting equipment for a presentation, or dry cleaning and laundry for your business apparel, all qualify for tax deduction."

"Transportation

Whether you fly, take a train or bus, or rent a car to get to your business meetings or conference, you can deduct the expense. Toll and parking fees qualify, as well. And don’t forget your standard mileage rate deduction. For every mile you drive for business, you can currently deduct 54.5 cents. This offsets what you spend on gas and upkeep on the car (it counts whether it’s your own car or a rental). Taxi rides count too, so make sure to get a receipt."

I'm not entirely sure about all that and I've heard a lot of feedback where IBO's receive a rather rude awakening when they try it. It's not really a business expense if you're not selling poo poo, and most IBO's aren't. They're just buying product and signing others up to do the same.

I went a-googlin' and read several different stories.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



After a few calls from a number I decided to google it to make sure it was a spam call as it's from the same state but doesn't share an area code with my phone number or current residence.

So I looked up the most unintentionally creepy auto-generated transcript for a robo-call that I've ever seen in my life.

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/210-899-6448

quote:

Transcript
Eyes go into their eyes go into their I'm sorry lady or the man of the house their place.



that's definitely not what it's saying, but I was very unnerved when I read that transcript.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002


You don't need eyes to see what we're selling

:eventhorizongooncamp:

dirby
Sep 21, 2004


Volmarias posted:

You don't need eyes to see what we're selling

:eventhorizongooncamp:
:golfclap:
At first I didn't understand the reference, but I must've just tried to block it out.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

ground floor on the new bourne movie ARG

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Princess Celestia


So this morning at 3am I got a message from my bank saying my credit card has been hacked. Someone calling themselves the Western Wyoming Urology Society tried to do a $0 test and now my card is cancelled for 2 weeks until I get posted a new one.

I had no idea someone could do a credit card transaction with just the number and expiry date. All the websites and Chips on the card needing the name and CVC number don't matter and isn't needed.

what.


The bank has no interest or time in investigating HOW they got it, where or when they got it. I haven't used the physical card for years now, just online and via apple ipay so presumably someone got hacked recently online.


In other news, every company in the world running Microsoft Exchange Server just got hacked?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Comstar posted:

I had no idea someone could do a credit card transaction with just the number and expiry date. All the websites and Chips on the card needing the name and CVC number don't matter and isn't needed.

what.

Merchants are charged more for higher fraud risk credit card transactions, so by asking for cvv, billing address, requiring a mag stripe swipe, requiring a chip, requiring a signature or PIN, etc they reduce their costs at the expense of making the customer take more time to do the transaction. Merchants willing to pay more can take higher risk and ask for less information to complete a transaction.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Either a scammer gave some woman my email to get her off his back or she made a mistake but I have been getting emails from a lady who got scammed out of like $75k for the past four months and it's kind of interesting. I never respond but she just keeps trying. My first name is Thomas, but i'm editing out her email addy and also the "to" field cause my email addy is my real full name. This is all of them in order.

(no subject)
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Dec 9, 2020, 7:22 AM

to [myname]
How are you doing? I tried to talk to Stephan but when I can't send money he doesn't seem to want to even listen or communicate. How did you meet him?

I haven't heard from Michelle for a couple of days and been hoping things have improved for her.

Am hoping to get some sleep soon.

Be careful. Covid is continues to ravage families here.


Valentines
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Mon, Feb 8, 2:26 PM

to [myname]
Hi! Am making Valentines for my hospice patients, Dina's 5 young grandkids, my former neighbor guy who's sick and for the Mission. Like last year I will plan to honor you on the ones I'm taking to the Mission. Not sure if I'll be able to make cookie & candy trays this time but am making up some really nice cards and will make up special candy packets for Dina's grandkids. They'll love it. They are as poor as church mice and very appreciative of anything - especially surprises. I won't let them know I'm coming ahead of time- but will let their mom know ahead of time.
Thought you would like to know. They may ask about you - but I won't say anything about how things have been.
Take care and be safe. Yuma County is still a dangerous place covid-wise and they only got 6,000 doses of vaccine for 300 thousand people- so it looks like most of us won't be scheduled til summer. Scary!


Payback time please
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Sat, Feb 13, 5:41 AM

to [my name]
Thomas, this is Patsy. I have been waiting to he repaid like you said you would do.
As you know I am a lady of limited income and desperately need those funds back.

Please keep your word and repay me like you promised this time.

I just lost another friend who died suddenly and unexpectedly. He didn't even have time to make amends for his wrongdoing with God.
Surely you as a strong Catholic know that you are breaking His commandments and hurting others in the process.

I'm a long way from being perfect but I can't even imagine why a man of your background and religious persuasion would be okay with seemingly trying to steal, kill and destroy the resources, Hope's and dreams of another individual such as you appear to be doing to me.

Please do the right thing and replace what you have taken from me.

Thank you.


A friend and classmate who passed just passed unexpectedly when rolling one of his fleet of collectable cars . May God rest his soul.
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

AttachmentsSat, Feb 13, 5:55 AM

to [myname]
Please think about the pain your actions impose on me and those I owe for your loans and purposes.


To think about as a child of God Thomas
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

AttachmentsSat, Feb 13, 6:15 AM

to [my name]
After sending the brief article about my former classmate and colorful friend I think I should tell you more about his life.
Abandoned as a baby he was adopted by good people and developed into a really good person with other siblings ( including a brother who was also adopted and about the same age so in school we always thought they were fraternal twins).

I wish no evil on you. You know that. Please just communicate with your higher angels and let truth, honesty & integrity speak to your heart and return what is owed to me. I will be so relieved and thankful.


What you sow you will reap
This one just had some lovely meme about sowing and reaping attached


Your scam
Patsy Lastname <pxxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Wed, Feb 17, 9:24 PM

to [my name]
I thought I would check in with you to see if you are ready to talk with me about what you and Stephan have done.

Today at a hospice meeting where we had to fill out reports my director had to borrow my phone to look up one of the portals she needed to access (since she already had her laptop on another portal).

I didn't think twice about allowing her to use it but when she accidentally lost the screen she began scrolling and your name and messages are still saved in there.
I imagine she was embarrassed and I was too.

I have another meeting in the morning for continued PPE standards and will have to face her again. Thomas, she thinks you are a very honest Godly man who would never purposely hurt me ever. In hospice work we care very much about people
We know not to judge our people as we believe that's God's job. But if she asks about you I need to be honest with her. The one thing I can't answer is why you chose me to do this to? We deal with life and death daily in hospice. It's no big deal for those of us who are Christian.

She knows you're Catholic ( like she is). Remember I told you her husband used to be a student of mine when he was in junior high?

I want in all things to be honest. I want to once again ask you to do the right thing and be concerned about your reputation and your future. Choose wisely who you befriend and trust. I thought I did when we befriended each other but some negative entity got hold of you and turned you from a kind and seemingly honest man into another cruel greedy man who turned your back on me as soon as you had all my retirement savings and run your bills up for ne to pay.

Please heed my advice and back away from the latter. Don't you want your daughter to be proud of you? Your money can't protect you from your criminal actions forever.

I sincerely wish you would promise me never to do this to anyone else but I imagine since you did it to me - you will find other Patsy's and Mary Allen's to do it to. Please don't. You will be caught. Your daughter will end up having to face a lifetime of shame for your actions. Society is a harsh judge.

I feel better just sharing my insights with you even though I am becoming a Mary Allen too. That most likely really pleases Stephan. I believe him to be a misogynist. I very much hope i am mistaken.

* I am getting help and will share this story with others as a warning. I 'm an educator and if I can educate and prevent even one person from becoming a victim of a Romeo Extortion crime I will feel that at least something good can come out of your malevolant scam scheme Thomas. You are almost $75,000 ahead and I have no retirement savings left .

Re-read the 4 Rotary Ways to Serve that I sent you and see how you come out.


Please don't perpetuate this with other innocent senior widowed victims. Please!



*Copies to be sent to others who are assumed to be interested in this type of crime.


Attention please!
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Wed, Feb 24, 2:37 AM (11 days ago)

to [my name]
Thomas,

I am a bit confused as your banker (Stephan Cooker) said in writing that you had paid me back the loans I made

When did you send the $73,600 check and what was the address you used?

I had temporarily stopped the complaint against you for extortion because Stephan had assured me the additional monies I sent ( $300 added to his $200) would get my $73,600 funds back as well as the $50,000 he said you owed him too. He said we would all be happy then .

To date nothing has changed to my knowledge. So I am going to have to move forward with my lawsuit. I have your San Diego information already but need specifics about your DC local & if you're still living in the airport there.

In my texts to you I asked you some questions. Was your interest in me and my welfare strictly based on what you could get out of me monetarily?
Why would you befriend a mourning widow who only had a relatively small retirement pension and a 9 or 10 year old car and very modest home? Especially if you needed money.

If you befriended me just to clean out my savings and take my retirement- why didn't you look for a woman who had a lot of money and possessions?

Remember when you were trying to get me to sell off things so you could pay to get back to the USA and you were living with your doctor and needed meds money and travel money and money to buy gifts for Michelle?

I don't think you ever told me what you brought home for her with the gifts funds I sent. She was here in the states really suffering without funds for school, books etc. I did what I could to help her but with 4 kids of my own and 7 grandchildren it wasn't easy.

You said you and Stephan had been working together for 4 years. Did he ever get mad at you and rant and call you nasty names like he did to me when I was sick, couldn't walk , drive or take care of myself recently?

I just don't understand why you are not taking responsibility for yourself and your actions.

Will you reconsider what you are doing so we can keep this out of the courts? I would be a fool to let you continue hurting other women who don't have men to protect them . I was a fool to believe you were honest with me and cared about me. It sure makes it hard to trust people once that trust is so severely damaged. Do you recall how I had such a difficult time after Gil Tyler got all but my house money-?
He had a similar story to yours and he also got the gold bars my late daddy left me as well as rare coins my late husband had given me.

Stephan is right ...I have been a fool but not for the reasons he insists- but for trusting the wrong people.

Why do you say you're a good and Godly person and then rob me?

I don't think I'll ever understand that.

Please explain. Thank you.


Your health?
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Fri, Feb 26, 12:22 AM (9 days ago)

to [my name]
I honestly hope your health is okay Thomas. Good health is wealth for many of us.

I had a correspondance with your daughter today and felt the need to be totally forthright and honest with her about all that has happened and my current state of affairs.

She seemed to think I had money to send her to recover my funds from your bank account. She didn't seem to realize you had taken everything and left me with a mountain of debt.

She seems to actually believe you will take care of her since she says she's helping you.

Please don't get her in trouble. She's young, beautiful and has her whole life ahead of her.

You know how I enjoy helping young people find their place in this world, continue their education, learn about the Biblical truths and follow them and prosper. Please don't involve her in any illegal or immoral activity. Protect her please!


Stephan's rage and other concerns
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Sat, Feb 27, 1:19 AM (8 days ago)

to [my name]
Thomas,

I have been having so many sleepless nights since Stephan told me he wants me dead. Just tonight I noticed that I have really tired eyes with black circles under them for lack of sleep. When I do sleep i do it when the dogs are up and active so they can alert me.

In my messages to your daughter I mentioned that I am still perplexed about why you abandoned us and never repaid my loans. She explained she had taken over and now wants $150 in American Express Cards in order to get my repayment. That in addition to the $400 I had to send Stephan appears to be indicative of just another symptom of you guys' insatiable greed.

Please explain to me why all this is okay?
I have a friend who is in great danger of dying and is fighting for our country and I'd asking for help. Normally I would have helped that person at a minute's notice...but now I just have to pray without being able to help get them out of harm's way ( situational and financial) .In addition you involved me in having to deal with a ranting, raving "loose cannon" type person. I don't recall if you're still in DC but your favored (banker) person reminds me of Trump's vigilante Proud Boys who have no conscience and feel they are right and invincible.

Thomas, at our ages and health conditions - each new day could be our last on this earth. Are you ready to meet Our Maker without shame or remorse for how you have treated a lady you once cared about and just threw away without notice?

Does Stephan have weapons?
Where I am is considered reasonably safe as we do have an active security service available but they are mainly to prevent burglaries, not necessarily to fight off perpetrators who might injure or try to kill a resident here (me).

Stephan doesn't have to like me but after his rage I don't feel safe. To your knowledge has he ever hurt you or your daughter or his little boy?

I sure hope not.

I'm just asking you to rethink over who you have become. You seemed to have morphed into a different person from the kind, easy going, Christian oriented man I used to know.


Thank you for reading my comments. I know I'm a long way from being perfect but I try very hard not to steal, kill (physically or figuratively) or destroy.

May God shine His light on our individual paths.
Sincerely, PH


Wednesday night
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Thu, Feb 25, 12:33 AM (10 days ago)

to [my name]
Hello again Thomas.

I am getting ready to end a long day of hard work and some embarrassing moments. Once again your name and picture caught the eye of a friend who was visiting and I dropped my wallet .

People seem to remember you and praying for you when you were overseas.

It's embarrassing to tell them that you really didn't want me but only what I had . So I didn't say anything because I was afraid I would end up crying. I have never cried so much in my life as I have since you did what you did to me.

Like I told you before I have many of the memories in written form now as part of the book I'm writing. I shared some of it with others already and the one question they keep asking is if I'm going to leave the unhappy ending. I let them know it's a true story and whether it has a happy ending or not is up to you.

Since it is a true account I can also use pictures.

I was hoping to also write a song about our relationship and possibly have Dana ( the lady in Nashville who demoed my song "Jesus, Man Of Peace " sing it along with their band.

As you can see I have been busy trying to use our story as a beacon to others so that they might not let their hearts rule over their heads like I did.

All of life is about learning and I still feel it's about serving Our Lord too. Saw a neat graphic on Facebook . I have an niece who's an artist. Possibly a drawing of one of the main concepts ( honesty ) could rendered.

One of the questions I'm asked is why did a wealthy man want my savings and part of my retirement check every month for all that time?
Can you please answer that for me so I can answer that? I honestly don't know why and I don't know why you died and came back to life either other than it was God's miracle. But then if it was God's miracle- why did he save you so you could hurt me again?

I think you can see why our story would be unusual and intriguing.

Once again I would like your input on the story . I ( obviously) feel like a victim but Stephan insinuates you were. How are you the victim ?

Book study groups could have some interesting discussions. I already know I was too naive and trusting. I thought you had empathy and sympathy with me because of Gil's extortion and that you really cared. I know now I was wrong . Of course i felt sorry for you to have to live in airports and beg for food and meds money.
Interesting discussion starters for college psych and sociology classes.

Am very tired and should call it a day. Am making plans to move to Vegas to be with my sisters. They have assured me I would have around the clock protection. I can live in peace.

My son-in-law is still waiting for your check to arrive at his bank to deposit back in my account. Now he knows Stephan lied about that too.

Why Thomas? Why did you chose me to make a fool of?

I really truly woukd appreciate knowing the answer.

Thank you. Be safe! Please consider using some of your funds to get a nice cozy place to stay.


[No subject line she sent this as a reply to the last]
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Mon, Mar 1, 11:54 AM (6 days ago)

to [my name]
It's now Monday, March 1st
. Am trying to send Michelle release money for my repayment check and they don't have the type she wants. Thomas, why are you continuing to expose me to covid? I just want peace in my life and don't understand why you have no qualms about hurting and endangering other people.
As a "student" and teacher of trying to understand human behavior- please explain it to me so I can better understand and help others.
Thank you.


Why Thomas?
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Fri, Mar 5, 4:39 AM (2 days ago)

to [my name]
Thomas,

Just when I begin to think things can't get any worse, I just found out a few hours ago how much you don't care about me or others I am trying to assist.

Your daughter had taken steps to potentially save my future and the life of a military hero by promising to repay the $75k that I loaned you which included Stephan's additional requests for documents, expenses for his little baby's care etc and the additional fees Michelle stated she was incurring to mail the check which cost an additional $150.

Because of your malevolent intent I am once again extremely saddened that you would do this to a fellow Christian , especially since you know I was partnering with you to help children in the orphanage in Baja as well as assisting a needy person serving our country who desperately needs help to stay alive and still trying to pay off your loan debts.

Thomas, only you and God know why you have forsaken your oath to repay me. Why are you choosing to hurt me and leave me responsible for your debts?

Please keep Stephan away from me as he wants me dead because I have not been able to send him any more money. After his rants- if I were you I would keep him far away from my family as he appears to have severe anger issues and rages like Trump.

Thomas, try living on a small retirement check and see what it's like. I thank God everyday for every dollar he provides me to try to take care of myself and dogs. Due to your needs the last 2 years I had to omit even buying birthday & Christmas gifts for the kids & grandkids, meds, clothes, gas etc . so that I could help you financially.

Please, just explain why you used and abuse my charitable intent and I will try to understand.

In the name of Our Lord I ask you to treat me with respect and dignity and refund my loan money I forwarded to you .

Sincerely, P


Please help me!
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Sat, Mar 6, 12:41 AM (1 day ago)

to [my name]
Thomas,

I am having a very difficult time and just texted your daughter to ask her to encourage you to return my money.

I have tried and tried to understand why you need to take money from me and not keep your promise to repay me. Will you please explain why that is okay. I have always been open with you so you know I was widowed years ago with no funds other than my retirement coming in after I retired. That isn't much because I had to pay all Bernard's accumulated hospital bills, emergency air ambulance flights to Phoenix and still support my youngest son through college and help his 2 sons from his prior marriage.

Thomas, from what you told me you worked hard all your life. Well I did too. I had 4 children as well as 2 stepchildren and still worked in the home that whole time and outside the home too for almost 40 years.

I loaned you my retirement savings because you were in really bad shape. I trusted you to repay me because you presented yourself as an honest hardworking Christian man . You even said you were coming here to go to church with me.
I stood in the gap for you and asked the Prayer Warriors to pray for you for months on end.

Why have you betrayed me?
Please do what you know us right. Even a partial recovery of funds would help me greatly right now.

Desert Bus fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Mar 7, 2021

Sanford
Jun 30, 2007

...and rarely post!



Thatís really sad.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Sanford posted:

Thatís really sad.

I have been wrestling with ignoring it cause not my monkeys, not my zoo, or messaging her and REALLY belatedly telling her that she has the wrong person and also that she got scammed. I kind of feel like she's in too deep and won't believe me at this point and will think that the scammer is just finding a new way to screw with her. If I had no morals I could ask her to send me some money for processing fees.

Sanford
Jun 30, 2007

...and rarely post!



Desert Bus posted:

I have been wrestling with ignoring it cause not my monkeys, not my zoo, or messaging her and REALLY belatedly telling her that she has the wrong person and also that she got scammed. I kind of feel like she's in too deep and won't believe me at this point and will think that the scammer is just finding a new way to screw with her. If I had no morals I could ask her to send me some money for processing fees.

Yeah I was trying to think of a "you should...." post but there's really nothing. At that stage just ignoring is probably best - at least she's not being sent off into the clutches of someone else that will take advantage of her.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Sanford posted:

Yeah I was trying to think of a "you should...." post but there's really nothing. At that stage just ignoring is probably best - at least she's not being sent off into the clutches of someone else that will take advantage of her.

I have a very common name and got the gmail address for it before anyone else so I get a lot of random emails for other people and I don't check it very often. If I had only seen the first or second message I would have emailed back "Sorry, wrong Thomas [Lastname]!" like I do a lot but I saw a bunch of them at once and realized what was going on. I do find it odd that she's talking to the "daughter" and "Stephan" still, but not confused by the scammers main alias not responding. She just keeps sending emails to him/me, and for some reason I haven't been deleting them like I do everything else. Theoretically I could internet stalk her and find her family and be all "Hey your mom/sister/whatever is getting scammed, here's the proof, you deal with it." but she's been scammed all the way, it's too late to do anything. I have to assume that there are some people around her who have pointed it out already though.

Best I can do is post it here so Goons get to see what it looks like when someone falls for this scam and hope none of you Google her up.

Edit: poo poo, i'm removing her last name too.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003





Prepare for a golden age of fake emails and data theft... Microsoft Exchange has been exploited which means that tens of thousands of companies have probably had their data stolen at best and many will have some kind of persistent ongoing exploits in their system to try and root out. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/tens-of-thousands-of-us-organizations-hit-in-ongoing-microsoft-exchange-hack/


I've been looking for a new apartment and I wonder why so many scammers make their fake ads so easy to spot by pricing them 20-30% below market rates. All of the search sites I use have a button for users to report fake ads and most of these get taken down in about 5 minutes. Do they really get so many hits because the place is super cheap that they wouldn't get if it was just a little bit under market rate and just stayed up for 2-3 weeks? Some of these guys obviously put a lot of work into the ads--not only do they have floorplans and photos of the propterty that match up with Street View images and full descriptions, in one case they were also using a phished email address from a Mercedes dealership to make it look like they were somehow the landlords. Then all their work gets deleted in 5 minutes. I guess the desperation is what gets people to engage? It's also super irritating because the very first ad my wife and I saw was for a place that was bigger than ours, in among a bunch of trees, right next to the river, in the middle of town, with roof terrace access--where there's a pool!--for $300/month less than we pay now and so we got all excited for about a day until we figured out the obvious truth but now honestly none of the other apartments we see look very good in comparison.

Does anyone have any articles about identity theft supply chain? I'm sure the apartment scammers and email spammers are something like harvesters, just hoovering up any kind of email or info they can so they can sell them on to what I guess are aggregators who bundle a bunch of accounts up to be used by the proper fraudsters. I'm kind of piecing together what I've read in a few cybercrime articles, but I'd be interested to know more about the actual market of it all and how much people pay for the different kinds/amounts/qualities of data.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

greazeball posted:


I've been looking for a new apartment and I wonder why so many scammers make their fake ads so easy to spot by pricing them 20-30% below market rates.

I assume it's the usual thing where they're filtering out skeptical and careful people because they don't want to deal with those people.

wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!


Those emails are extremely sad. :( Seeing her go from "maybe your intentions aren't good" back to "I sent you more money, why haven't you fixed things" without missing a beat is heartbreaking.

I'd encourage you to tell her some hard truths but I think you're right that it may not make a difference.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





wizzardstaff posted:

Those emails are extremely sad. :( Seeing her go from "maybe your intentions aren't good" back to "I sent you more money, why haven't you fixed things" without missing a beat is heartbreaking.

I'd encourage you to tell her some hard truths but I think you're right that it may not make a difference.

Unless it's friends or family, never offer assistance to someone whose data was exposed or is being scammed.

The problem with trying to help strangers getting scammed on the internet is that you often get blamed for any problems they have in the future. They get robocalls? Desert Bus must have sold her phone number. Weird credit card charges? Desert Bus must have gotten her credit card, not just her email address. Worst case is they come after Desert Bus in court for the initial scam if they're also in the US since they appear knowledgeable about the scam and are responding to emails.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Midjack posted:

Unless it's friends or family, never offer assistance to someone whose data was exposed or is being scammed.

The problem with trying to help strangers getting scammed on the internet is that you often get blamed for any problems they have in the future. They get robocalls? Desert Bus must have sold her phone number. Weird credit card charges? Desert Bus must have gotten her credit card, not just her email address. Worst case is they come after Desert Bus in court for the initial scam if they're also in the US since they appear knowledgeable about the scam and are responding to emails.

Yeah I really don't want to be connected to that poo poo. There's that impulse to try and be a good person but... My email address is one of the very very few things online that can actually be used to find me online. My full legal name? Common as poo poo. My online handle? "Desert Bus" is both a video game and I know that there are other people online who use it too. If you try to Google me using my full name at best you'll think i'm a poet who lives in a different country than I actually do or possibly a dead Catholic priest.

She's already been scammed of everything, warning her now is pretty useless and just gets me involved in a lot of drama I don't want.

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001

The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics. Oh, and that stupid children's book 'The Little Prince,' ugh.
:krad:


Yams Fan


Just let sheís sending stuff to the wrong guy and sheís getting blocked. Then do it.

I run into this poo poo a lot, although not this bad, as my first.last name at gmail isnít uncommon and my wife shares hers with a famous news presenter.

It was a very sad day when my wife stopped letting me troll people that emailed her thinking she was said news presenter.

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

Desert Bus posted:

Yeah I really don't want to be connected to that poo poo. There's that impulse to try and be a good person but... My email address is one of the very very few things online that can actually be used to find me online. My full legal name? Common as poo poo. My online handle? "Desert Bus" is both a video game and I know that there are other people online who use it too. If you try to Google me using my full name at best you'll think i'm a poet who lives in a different country than I actually do or possibly a dead Catholic priest.

She's already been scammed of everything, warning her now is pretty useless and just gets me involved in a lot of drama I don't want.

I doubt she'd believe you anyway. She seems to realize the main guy scammed her but still believes that the other people exist and that the sad stories he told about them are true. "I can't believe you'd turn your back on Belinda when she's going through her second miscarriage and stuck in a foreign country after getting cancer for the third time and leaving her abusive husband and just needs $20k to get home..."

I guess it's easier to believe that you're dealing with one scummy guy who hosed over a bunch of people, rather than the fact that all of those people you've been talking to are part of his scam. :(

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010





greazeball posted:

I've been looking for a new apartment and I wonder why so many scammers make their fake ads so easy to spot by pricing them 20-30% below market rates. All of the search sites I use have a button for users to report fake ads and most of these get taken down in about 5 minutes. Do they really get so many hits because the place is super cheap that they wouldn't get if it was just a little bit under market rate and just stayed up for 2-3 weeks?

If itís rentals then the scammers are primarily targeting immigrants, exchange students and people moving in from out of town.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

hyperhazard posted:

I doubt she'd believe you anyway. She seems to realize the main guy scammed her but still believes that the other people exist and that the sad stories he told about them are true. "I can't believe you'd turn your back on Belinda when she's going through her second miscarriage and stuck in a foreign country after getting cancer for the third time and leaving her abusive husband and just needs $20k to get home..."

I guess it's easier to believe that you're dealing with one scummy guy who hosed over a bunch of people, rather than the fact that all of those people you've been talking to are part of his scam. :(

I just assume they're all the same person playing different roles to make it more believable.

I feel like telling her it's the wrong person and that i'm blocking her will just make her double down and Google the email address which will lead to phone calls or physical mail or cops showing up at my house. It was too late for that after the second email.

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

Remulak posted:

Just let she’s sending stuff to the wrong guy and she’s getting blocked. Then do it.

I run into this poo poo a lot, although not this bad, as my first.last name at gmail isn’t uncommon and my wife shares hers with a famous news presenter.

It was a very sad day when my wife stopped letting me troll people that emailed her thinking she was said news presenter.

I probably mentioned this in the weird names thread at some point, but my husband's boss has a name one letter off from a well-known author (think Steven King vs Stephen King). He keeps getting fanmail for that guy, and the other guy gets email for him, to the point where they became internet friends. Luckily his boss is an honest guy, otherwise I could totally see him asking people to paypal him for a book or signed swag or something.

Ever since they found out, every Christmas his coworkers get him one of this guy's books, which is endlessly amusing for everyone else and probably annoying as hell for him.

duodenum
Sep 18, 2005



Reminds me of how my dad, in his late 70s, fell for a guy trying to sell him a house in Florida for the past-due property tax balance. He said the guy was a real estate lawyer, and a CHRISTIAN, so of course he trusted him!

He sent the scammer about $15k before he disappeared. My dad flew to Florida, drove to the address in question and knocked on the door. The homeowner was sympathetic, but had no idea what he was talking about.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Sunday, March 7 th
Patsy Lastname <xxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

3:05 PM (44 minutes ago)

to [my name]
Hello again. As I watched the televised Champion Church sservice today I started taking notes like i always do and then had a flashback on how I would take notes , write them up and send them to you when you were so sick. You as also planned on going to a service when you got well and you and Jude flew into Yuma.

Thomas, all the plane fare, luggage fees etc. that I sent you money for; was it just a ruse to get money out of me or did you really care?

I need to know the truth . With the support of friends and family I can handle it now.

Thank you for your attention to this request.

May God speak to your heart as well as to mine.

quidditch it and quit it
Oct 11, 2012




As a total lurker in this thread, Desert Bus, block her. This is a bad loving thing that you are watching, like some kind of Hitchcock film, and no good will come of it.

You canít help, itís already happened, stop watching.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002


greazeball posted:

I've been looking for a new apartment and I wonder why so many scammers make their fake ads so easy to spot by pricing them 20-30% below market rates.

You want people who will be too blinded by greed about getting a "really good deal" to stop and think about it.

quidditch it and quit it posted:

As a total lurker in this thread, Desert Bus, block her. This is a bad loving thing that you are watching, like some kind of Hitchcock film, and no good will come of it.

You can’t help, it’s already happened, stop watching.

Same, either help them or don't, but don't just keep watching the train wreck from the sides, and especially don't post more here.

Poldarn
Feb 18, 2011



Our IT department releases fake phishing emails on a regular basis to train people to hit the big "Report Phishing" button on Outlook. I saved my favourite one.

IT Department posted:


Dear Mr. Sir,
I am Dr. Bakare Tunde, the cousin of Nigerian Astronaut, Air Force Major Abacha Tunde. In the 14-years since
he has been on the station, he has accumulated flight pay and interest amounting to almost $ 15,000,000 USD.
If we can obtain access to this money, we can place a down payment with the Russian Space Authorities for a
Soyuz return flight to bring him back to Earth. I am told this will cost $ 3,000,000 American Dollars. In order to
access the his trust fund we need your assistance.
My colleague and I are willing to transfer you the 3,000,000 USD in order to help bring him home.
Kindly expedite action as we are behind schedule to enable us include downpayment in this financial quarter.
Please click on this link to enter your banking information.
Yours Sincerely, Dr. Bakare Tunde
Astronautics Project Manager


Some poor astronaut is trapped in space until they can get $3 Mil to bring him back

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002


Poldarn posted:

Our IT department releases fake phishing emails on a regular basis to train people to hit the big "Report Phishing" button on Outlook. I saved my favourite one.


Some poor astronaut is trapped in space until they can get $3 Mil to bring him back

He's been eating astronaut ice cream this whole time

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003





Volmarias posted:

You want people who will be too blinded by greed about getting a "really good deal" to stop and think about it.


Same, either help them or don't, but don't just keep watching the train wreck from the sides, and especially don't post more here.

There's one at the moment that's more than 50% below market and asks you to click a bitly link to make an appointment hahaha

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Poldarn posted:

Our IT department releases fake phishing emails on a regular basis to train people to hit the big "Report Phishing" button on Outlook. I saved my favourite one.


Some poor astronaut is trapped in space until they can get $3 Mil to bring him back

This owns.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Poldarn posted:

Our IT department releases fake phishing emails on a regular basis to train people to hit the big "Report Phishing" button on Outlook. I saved my favourite one.


Some poor astronaut is trapped in space until they can get $3 Mil to bring him back

Actually it sounds like he's trapped until they can give you the three million.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010




College Slice

The Moon Monster posted:

Actually it sounds like he's trapped until they can give you the three million.

Brewster's Millions sequel looking good.

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Send patsy a link to Kitboga's explanation video of scams from a throwaway email

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