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Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Mister Kingdom posted:

I figured as much. What's odd is that no specific card is mentioned.

Rosalie_A posted:

It's like a fake psychic. They leave things out so you fill in the gaps and think it was them who came up with it.

They will have you "verify our information" by asking you for everything or a more sophisticated version will offer the information they already have such as address, email, phone number, etc., possibly with some incorrect information to reinforce the fraud story. After you're on the hook they'll ask for your credit card information and reply with "oh, different card, never mind" and the fraud begins once you hang up. It's possible to determine the leading four from the card brand and get the last four from a breach, so if they get some of the middle eight, expiration, and CVV (if they're feeling saucy) they can run the checksum algorithm to determine the whole number and they're off to the races.

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Pekinduck
May 10, 2008

Mister Kingdom posted:

I figured as much. What's odd is that no specific card is mentioned.

These scams are just random scattershots hoping for a bite, they don't know what kind of cards you have. They must get a better hit rate from being vague then guessing.

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012

Just me and my 🌊dragon🐉 hanging out

Desert Bus posted:

A "fake" psychic? Are there "real" psychics?

I think there are people who are very good untrained behavioral psychologists who think that their observations and assessments of people are flashes of ďpsychic informationĒ and are not intentionally scamming others with that.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Gut feeling is real and has nothing to do with psychic powers. (Itís your subconscious checking in to say yes, this is a scam.)

Cerebral Mayhem
Jul 18, 2000

Very useful on the planet Delphon, where they communicate with their eyebrows
I set a filter for my email to send anything that has the word "kindly" in it to my spam folder.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


drat, that's nice.

duodenum
Sep 18, 2005

The carriers HAVE to know the origin of these scam number-spoofing calls that are so loving ubiquitous. How they can just let this go for YEARS is ridiculous. We need some consumer protection/advocacy agency with teeth to gently caress these people in the rear end.

edit: I mean the carriers, gently caress the carriers in the rear end.

duodenum fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Mar 14, 2022

Poldarn
Feb 18, 2011

duodenum posted:

The carriers HAVE to know the origin of these scam number-spoofing calls that are so loving ubiquitous. How they can just let this go for YEARS is ridiculous. We need some consumer protection/advocacy agency with teeth to gently caress these people in the rear end.

I feel confident that there was a law or something that made the carrier have to pay you for every scam call, the problem would disappear immediately.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
It's weird because it's hard to imagine a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls, but it's also hard to imagine why the carriers and phone manufacturers would pretend that "oh golly gee there's just no way to stop these obvious bot calls from getting through" unless someone is paying them handsomely to look the other way. Because customers would certainly pay for that functionality, if they had to. But these are some of the wealthiest companies in the world, surely no one could afford to pay enough bribe money to persuade them to let scam calls through unless it was a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls.

There's something going on here that I have never quite been able to fully understand.

e: It may just be the Russian and/or Chinese governments, can't rule that out I guess

Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Mar 14, 2022

plester1
Jul 9, 2004





Eric the Mauve posted:

It's weird because it's hard to imagine a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls, but it's also hard to imagine why the carriers and phone manufacturers would pretend that "oh golly gee there's just no way to stop these obvious bot calls from getting through" unless someone is paying them handsomely to look the other way. Because customers would certainly pay for that functionality, if they had to. But these are some of the wealthiest companies in the world, surely no one could afford to pay enough bribe money to persuade them to let scam calls through unless it was a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls.

There's something going on here that I have never quite been able to fully understand.

e: It may just be the Russian and/or Chinese governments, can't rule that out I guess

At least one US carrier does allow you to block scam calls, you just have to turn it on: https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/scam-id-and-scam-block

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



It doesnít work great to be honest, I still have to run software on top of it.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012
Yeah it flagged legit local government calls for me as scammers.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

Eric the Mauve posted:

It's weird because it's hard to imagine a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls, but it's also hard to imagine why the carriers and phone manufacturers would pretend that "oh golly gee there's just no way to stop these obvious bot calls from getting through" unless someone is paying them handsomely to look the other way. Because customers would certainly pay for that functionality, if they had to. But these are some of the wealthiest companies in the world, surely no one could afford to pay enough bribe money to persuade them to let scam calls through unless it was a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls.

There's something going on here that I have never quite been able to fully understand.

e: It may just be the Russian and/or Chinese governments, can't rule that out I guess

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2022/01/28/months-past-us-stirshaken-deadline-other-nations-join-the-party/

Ignore the fact that it's an ad in the form of an article, I was mainly looking for recent updates. Change is definitely coming though how useful this will be is another question.

TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009

Eric the Mauve posted:

It's weird because it's hard to imagine a sinister Spam Cabal (snip)

e: It may just be the Russian and/or Chinese governments, can't rule that out I guess



The moment swift sanctions hit russia and ability to pay was cut off, a -ton- of internet communities got a ton quieter and the signal to noise ratio cleared up a LOT.


For -phones- though, a lot of what makes it through to my line is short code text abuse (the 5 letters).

What's neat about short codes is that its a very simple matter to call your customer service and ask who owns it, and then write their website saying you're on the do not spam list, gently caress off and don't sell my data.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Eric the Mauve posted:

It's weird because it's hard to imagine a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls, but it's also hard to imagine why the carriers and phone manufacturers would pretend that "oh golly gee there's just no way to stop these obvious bot calls from getting through" unless someone is paying them handsomely to look the other way. Because customers would certainly pay for that functionality, if they had to. But these are some of the wealthiest companies in the world, surely no one could afford to pay enough bribe money to persuade them to let scam calls through unless it was a sinister Spam Cabal that is the source of all scam calls.

There's something going on here that I have never quite been able to fully understand.

e: It may just be the Russian and/or Chinese governments, can't rule that out I guess

Nothing so sinister as conspiracy, the carriers are simply paid to deliver the traffic and blocking it would lower profits. :capitalism:

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

Volmarias posted:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2022/01/28/months-past-us-stirshaken-deadline-other-nations-join-the-party/

Ignore the fact that it's an ad in the form of an article, I was mainly looking for recent updates. Change is definitely coming though how useful this will be is another question.


there are more carriers than the few big phone companies everyone in the first world does business with. there are thousands of carriers out there, many of whom are not subject to american law. basically "the phone system" is a huge patchwork of legacy systems all interconnected, trying to keep spam calls off phones is like trying to keep spam emails off internet. you can cut it down a lot but you can never really eliminate it

the big american phone companies have all implemented stir/shaken identification per FCC regulations as of last summer. this will help cut down on local spoofing but basically so long as your phone can accept international calls then it can be spammed from international callers. there's also nothing stopping spammers from getting legit numbers and then spamming from them until they get taken away

basically its not a problem that regulation can solve. you can't preemptively identify when someone is going to make a phone call for a scammy purpose, you can only identify and react to it. its easy to blame conspiracy and capitalism but its a bit like saying the cops only allow people to get shot because they're being paid off by the firearm companies so they can keep their jobs pretending to solve murders, when we could simply make murders illegal

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
If my phone allowed me to set it to not accept international calls I would happily do so, but it doesn't.

Not that it actually matters because spoofing. What I want, but once again don't have, is a setting to automatically reject all calls/texts from numbers not in my contacts. Why that very simple option either doesn't exist or exists but doesn't quite seem to work right, depending on your phone, is the billion dollar question.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012
The difference is that it's trivial to obfuscate who an email is coming from, but the origin of a phone call is 100% verifiable because phone calls have to be billed.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

:rip:

Tunicate posted:

The difference is that it's trivial to obfuscate who an email is coming from, but the origin of a phone call is 100% verifiable because phone calls have to be billed.

Oh, no worries, they helpfully allow people to text from emails. :v:

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Eric the Mauve posted:

If my phone allowed me to set it to not accept international calls I would happily do so, but it doesn't.

Not that it actually matters because spoofing. What I want, but once again don't have, is a setting to automatically reject all calls/texts from numbers not in my contacts. Why that very simple option either doesn't exist or exists but doesn't quite seem to work right, depending on your phone, is the billion dollar question.

My phone has this feature (Android One, used in Japan.) Here, only landlines really get hit with sales calls. Mobile phones also have different, national area codes, so you can tell by looking at the number if it's mobile, wired, out of state, etc.

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010

Tunicate posted:

Yeah it flagged legit local government calls for me as scammers.

this makes me laugh, mad and sad.

Also reminder that your local city probably has older phone base alert systems that are updated eariler/faster than birdsite or zuckbook poo poo. try to get your news directly from the source and not a gated garden of a billionaire techbro parasite.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012
but yeah the phone system is so garbage that most people don't pick up unknown phone numbers

and house scammers faking handwritten letters now mean that nobody opens handwritten letters

Despite having valid phone numbers and addresses, I recently ended up having to contact a guy several states over by driving to his house and knocking on the front door because modern communications have degraded so far

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Thereís no spam calls here in Denmark. EU regulations work. Modernized infrastructure probably also helps, but this is by and large a result of regulations, because cell companies are the ones responsible for cell towers etc.

E: should be noted that there are very rare (like once a year) scam calls. These are targeted calls, usually hitting the elderly.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 15, 2022

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

Tunicate posted:

and house scammers faking handwritten letters now mean that nobody opens handwritten letters

You're going to have to explain this one because it's a new one to me.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

:rip:

Fruits of the sea posted:

Thereís no spam calls here in Denmark. EU regulations work. Modernized infrastructure probably also helps, but this is by and large a result of regulations, because cell companies are the ones responsible for cell towers etc.

E: should be noted that there are very rare (like once a year) scam calls. These are targeted calls, usually hitting the elderly.

They can't work in the US because AMERICA something something

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


Here in Greece the spam is real, EU regulations or not. Okay for the most part it's companies you've already buying from, like telecoms, but still. I already have internet and phone, why are you calling me once a week to offer me new, unrelated poo poo? Do you think I might also have 10 extra phones I need plans for?
And of course there's the general scam calls that charge you when you pick up (somehow? I don't know, never happened to me and it sounds iffy but there's been articles).

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

Fruits of the sea posted:

Thereís no spam calls here in Denmark. EU regulations work. Modernized infrastructure probably also helps, but this is by and large a result of regulations, because cell companies are the ones responsible for cell towers etc.

E: should be noted that there are very rare (like once a year) scam calls. These are targeted calls, usually hitting the elderly.

EU regulations have the same power overseas that american regulations do - none at all. there aren't enough danish speakers worldwide to be worth trying to internationally scam the danes. drat near everyone speaks some english though

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Volmarias posted:

You're going to have to explain this one because it's a new one to me.

Real estate market is so hot they send hand addressed envelopes to try to get people to open their lowball 'i want to buy ur house' offers.

I guess not a scam in terms of being illegal probably but still scummy

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

EU regulations have the same power overseas that american regulations do - none at all. there aren't enough danish speakers worldwide to be worth trying to internationally scam the danes. drat near everyone speaks some english though

Huh, I guess I hadn't considered folks think we don't speak english. For the record, the percentage of Danes who speak english is somewhere north of 85%. Those who don't are mostly pensioners.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet

Slippery Tilde

Tunicate posted:

Real estate market is so hot they send hand addressed envelopes to try to get people to open their lowball 'i want to buy ur house' offers.

I guess not a scam in terms of being illegal probably but still scummy

There are also machines that can do signatures, like what congress critters use to sign replies to constituent snail mail.

HerStuddMuffin
Aug 10, 2014

YOSPOS

Fruits of the sea posted:

Huh, I guess I hadn't considered folks think we don't speak english. For the record, the percentage of Danes who speak english is somewhere north of 85%. Those who don't are mostly pensioners.
Sadly for scammers their prime targets are seniors. Thatís not to say that only the elderly fall prey to scams, of course.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Yeah, they are the only ones being targeted, but thankfully phone scams are quite rare. Now, fraud via e-mail on the other hand...

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

Tunicate posted:

Real estate market is so hot they send hand addressed envelopes to try to get people to open their lowball 'i want to buy ur house' offers.

I guess not a scam in terms of being illegal probably but still scummy

Pretty sure there's "handwritten" fonts on the addressing of some of these letters. I kept getting these kinds of letters you're describing from, for no reason I can understand, a company that sells old people hearing aids. Again, making GBS threads on the elderly by making them think someone might have cared about them and all, but this isn't a scam so much as it is junk mail.

Blue Moonlight
Apr 28, 2005
Bitter and Sarcastic

Volmarias posted:

Pretty sure there's "handwritten" fonts on the addressing of some of these letters. I kept getting these kinds of letters you're describing from, for no reason I can understand, a company that sells old people hearing aids. Again, making GBS threads on the elderly by making them think someone might have cared about them and all, but this isn't a scam so much as it is junk mail.

Iíve got a few of these for various insurance policies, if I recall correctly.

Nighthand
Nov 4, 2009

what horror the gas

I've gotten a couple of "handwritten" letters recently that were a mix of fake and real, but they were Jehovah's witnesses forcing their children to do Bible school homework sending out mail since no one opens their door anymore.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Ugh, I did something similar in youth group and it was very uncomfortable.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Just got an email this morning that I've been nominated for a listing in "Who's Who in America." :smuggo:

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



MightyJoe36 posted:

Just got an email this morning that I've been nominated for a listing in "Who's Who in America." :smuggo:

I think you can self nominate into that, make sure you're not sleepwalking and also buying eBay pianos.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Midjack posted:

I think you can self nominate into that, make sure you're not sleepwalking and also buying eBay pianos.

I haven't taken Ambien in decades.

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duodenum
Sep 18, 2005

Eric the Mauve posted:

If my phone allowed me to set it to not accept international calls I would happily do so, but it doesn't.

Not that it actually matters because spoofing. What I want, but once again don't have, is a setting to automatically reject all calls/texts from numbers not in my contacts. Why that very simple option either doesn't exist or exists but doesn't quite seem to work right, depending on your phone, is the billion dollar question.

Exactly, why is spoofing allowed? Why is it POSSIBLE? If itís tolerated because itís profitable, then turn the loving screws.

AT&T probably makes sure senatorsí phones and staffersí phones never have this problem so it never comes up in D.C.

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