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Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

🛑 Don't get your pen🖊️, son, you won't be 👌 needing that 😌. My 🥡 order's 💁 simple😉, a shitload 💩 of dim sims 🌯🀄. And I want a bucket 🪣 of soya sauce☕😋.
I thought YouTube Kids was curated by hand to prevent that kind of fuckery.

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AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

The wiki article is a decent enough short summary of the whole situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another snowy day commute

Bargearse posted:

I thought YouTube Kids was curated by hand to prevent that kind of fuckery.

It is essentially impossible for Youtube to curate uploads by hand at this point. Something like multiple hundreds of hours of video gets uploaded every minute, even for just the kids stuff they'd need tens of thousands of people working around the clock 24/7/365 doing nothing but watching like a minute of footage and hitting thumbs up/thumbs down then moving on to do it and even then it would be imperfect. So instead it all gets left up to the algorithm and "AI" which are stupid and inherently biased and intentionally programed with shitloads of heuristic shortcuts to churn through and categorize content as fast as possible so if your video has bright colors and upbeat music and smiling people it passes the Youtube Kids checks even though the video has Elsa giving graphic birth to Spiderman's kid or whatever.

Youtube gets a lot of deserved flak for their pandering to bigger companies, rear end backwards copyright detection/strike system and absolute utter lack of customer support for any creator under 100,000,000 subs but frankly there just isn't a workable method at this point to truly sift through the deluge of content that gets uploaded to them in any kind of effective manner. I have to imagine they have seriously considered many times severely cutting back on how much users are allowed to upload to the platform but have resisted because they're rightly afraid it would kill the whole thing.

DiabloStarCraft
Oct 12, 2006

What is there in this world that makes living worthwhile?"

CATS. CATS ARE NICE
🐱🐱🐱💀🐱🐱🐱

Sydin posted:

It is essentially impossible for Youtube to curate uploads by hand at this point. Something like multiple hundreds of hours of video gets uploaded every minute, even for just the kids stuff they'd need tens of thousands of people working around the clock 24/7/365 doing nothing but watching like a minute of footage and hitting thumbs up/thumbs down then moving on to do it and even then it would be imperfect. So instead it all gets left up to the algorithm and "AI" which are stupid and inherently biased and intentionally programed with shitloads of heuristic shortcuts to churn through and categorize content as fast as possible so if your video has bright colors and upbeat music and smiling people it passes the Youtube Kids checks even though the video has Elsa giving graphic birth to Spiderman's kid or whatever.

Youtube gets a lot of deserved flak for their pandering to bigger companies, rear end backwards copyright detection/strike system and absolute utter lack of customer support for any creator under 100,000,000 subs but frankly there just isn't a workable method at this point to truly sift through the deluge of content that gets uploaded to them in any kind of effective manner. I have to imagine they have seriously considered many times severely cutting back on how much users are allowed to upload to the platform but have resisted because they're rightly afraid it would kill the whole thing.
I dont think op is asking to have all content hand curated but wouldn't it be simple enough to have a few people who's job is to search through videos and categorise and curate the ones they find that are suitable for kids? If I were an advertiser and knew I could advertise toys and poo poo and 100 percent know they would be shown before something kid friendly I'd probably pay a lot for that.

If I were a parent I'd also pay a small monthly fee to ensure my kid doesn't see those ads lol

Blue Moonlight
Apr 28, 2005
Bitter and Sarcastic
Iím honestly amazed that YouTube Kids doesnít take an allowlist approach, where certain creators are given carte blanche to upload so long as they stay in line. Way more manageable to maintain a list of not-awful creators than a list of not-awful videos. Let the kids creators all fight with each other for relevancy - itíll probably end with ⅔ of Disney+ on YouTube for free.

On the other hand, kids watching Elmo extract Peppa Pigís molars with rusty pliers is really good at making the lines go up, so itís not surprising which way the winds blow.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another snowy day commute

DiabloStarCraft posted:

I dont think op is asking to have all content hand curated but wouldn't it be simple enough to have a few people who's job is to search through videos and categorise and curate the ones they find that are suitable for kids? If I were an advertiser and knew I could advertise toys and poo poo and 100 percent know they would be shown before something kid friendly I'd probably pay a lot for that.

If I were a parent I'd also pay a small monthly fee to ensure my kid doesn't see those ads lol

Advertisers already pay a lot for it though, and they don't really care if the content is really for kids or not: just that it's marked as being for kids on the website and will show up in the Youtube Kids portal. Why do I care if it turns out my lego set or whatever is being advertised before some creepy Elsagate video if it gets a shitload of views regardless and the ones who get the public ire for it are Youtube, not me? If anybody does try to get mad at me I can get indignant and say hey, Youtube doesn't let me pick exactly what videos this goes in front of, I have to trust them to pick what is actually child appropriate, I'm just as mad as you parents! (I am not actually mad, the creepy video got 10M views and my ad along with it so as far as I'm concerned this was a net positive).

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

BiggerBoat posted:

Occasionally I get on the internet with my phone that doesn't have an ad blocker. I can't imagine that experience being the norm or anyone ever doing that. I wonder the % of users is that uses these extensions because if it's less than 80% I don't see how the internet even functions let alone provide a pleasurable experience. Dear god, it looks like the TV from Idiocracy without them.

They're people who honestly don't understand why ads are infuriating, and just consider it noise.

DiabloStarCraft posted:

I dont think op is asking to have all content hand curated but wouldn't it be simple enough to have a few people who's job is to search through videos and categorise and curate the ones they find that are suitable for kids? If I were an advertiser and knew I could advertise toys and poo poo and 100 percent know they would be shown before something kid friendly I'd probably pay a lot for that.

If I were a parent I'd also pay a small monthly fee to ensure my kid doesn't see those ads lol

Some kind of premium, you say? For YouTube? A YouTube Premium if you will?

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.

Blue Moonlight posted:

Iím honestly amazed that YouTube Kids doesnít take an allowlist approach, where certain creators are given carte blanche to upload so long as they stay in line. Way more manageable to maintain a list of not-awful creators than a list of not-awful videos. Let the kids creators all fight with each other for relevancy - itíll probably end with ⅔ of Disney+ on YouTube for free.

On the other hand, kids watching Elmo extract Peppa Pigís molars with rusty pliers is really good at making the lines go up, so itís not surprising which way the winds blow.

YouTube, the advertisers, and the content creators, all knowingly make money off of the viewing choices of small children whose parents don't have the good sense to block or remove the app. It's powered by unsupervised kids and it's gross.

We ended up removing the YouTube app since it doesn't provide any meaningfully restrictive parental controls, and either watching YT on a laptop with the kid, or giving them access to a more trustworthy and limited content app, like PBS Kids.

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010

BiggerBoat posted:

It's worse than advertisements.

You Tube's weird algorithms eventually lead to a bunch of really harsh, graphic and decidedly non kid friendly shows that LOOK like children's programming with Spiderman and Minecraft or whatever but are really loving dark and violent. I had to remove YT from my kid's computer and put strict controls and monitoring on the channel when he stays with me.

Some of this poo poo I saw was incredibly hosed up and gave him nightmares. I'm talking rape, animal cruelty and decapitations here.

I'm not sure what the end game for these things are supposed to be, really, but there must be a reason beyond "clicks" I would like to think.

Probably this belongs in the tech nightmares thread.

wait I thought pregnant spider-man Elsa dentistry was already patched? is this 2.0??

e : oh question sort of answered.

PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Aug 23, 2022

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



I teach college courses and when I ask, it's probably less than 10% of students run an adblocker. Most common reason why is "meh" followed by "it's too complicated/I'm too lazy to figure it out". I've also heard from a number of students that you always have to allow all the cookies and trackers or the websites won't work properly.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?


Isn't it a thing that a user uploaded content platform like YouTube can't be held responsible for the content on it as long as it's all automated and they do a best effort of reacting to complaints? I thought it was like that for copyright violations at least. I forget what the law or case was called where that was decided. Maybe having YouTube kids proactively curated/moderated by actual people opens them up to all sorts of liability. Like they couldn't just check if it was kid friendly, they'd have to actually check everything was on the up and up legally and properly cleared. Something like that. The required amount of effort would quickly get out of hand.

Idk, maybe this is just nonsense fabricated by my aching brain.

Quaint Quail Quilt
Jun 19, 2006

BiggerBoat posted:

Occasionally I get on the internet with my phone that doesn't have an ad blocker. I can't imagine that experience being the norm or anyone ever doing that. I wonder the % of users is that uses these extensions because if it's less than 80% I don't see how the internet even functions let alone provide a pleasurable experience. Dear god, it looks like the TV from Idiocracy without them.
You can change your dns to AdGuard (admittedly it's a paid service) but I got a basic family plan for life for under $79 I believe. It works as good as my pihole.

Alternatively I bought a firewalla gold box and I think I can roll my own adblock vpn I can push all my cell traffic through.
If not I think they are working it, I'm having a bit of trouble running pi hole on it through docker instead of my raspberry pi. (It's a beta feature still)

F an ad or commercial, I've seen very few in over a decade

tight aspirations
Jul 13, 2009

Isn't Adguard DNS free?

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Bargearse posted:

I thought YouTube Kids was curated by hand to prevent that kind of fuckery.
Absolutely not. Kris Straub did some horror stuff that had the word "kids" in the title so Youtube decided it belongs in Youtube Kids. EDIT: And he cant' tell them "no this isn't for kids", either, the system is not set up to handle the idea of false positives here.

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
installing an adblocker should be taught as basic internet hygiene. ublock origin requires zero janitoring on default settings and i make a point of installing it when dealing with family tech support issues if it isn't already there



Zereth posted:

Absolutely not. Kris Straub did some horror stuff that had the word "kids" in the title so Youtube decided it belongs in Youtube Kids. EDIT: And he cant' tell them "no this isn't for kids", either, the system is not set up to handle the idea of false positives here.

yeah. youtube's poo poo is almost all algorithms any more. there are no overrides or controls. "this is a found footage horror video that we even put "for 18+ audiences" in and youtube has put it in as 'for kids' and we have no way of changing it"


this is in addition to the problem where leaving youtube on autoplay will almost always end up routing you into some weird right wing conspiracy hole after long enough


Original_Z posted:

The kids videos always have super long ads too, like 30 minutes or so. I assume the algorithm noticed that the kids videos more often have full ad watches so they thrust the worst ones on it. Why the hell is there even a 30+ minute advertisement to begin with, like who the hell would watch that and why would companies even bother making and uploading them?

there was a point in time where they were literally showing certain movies as "free" by playing the movie as the ad. so your pre-roll ad for your five minute funny old tech video is a feature-length film

of course, as an ad, there was no play control / seeking. at least they let you skip it after a bit.

Quaint Quail Quilt
Jun 19, 2006

tight aspirations posted:

Isn't Adguard DNS free?
It is but apple in particular has made it hard to use unless you get the paid and install a 3rd party bypass.
I guess apple and mobile ISPs want to know your visited websites pretty bad.
I mostly paid for it for my wife's iPhone.

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010

greazeball posted:

I teach college courses and when I ask, it's probably less than 10% of students run an adblocker. Most common reason why is "meh" followed by "it's too complicated/I'm too lazy to figure it out". I've also heard from a number of students that you always have to allow all the cookies and trackers or the websites won't work properly.

unless they're using the scholar databases the college /college library, oh and the library itself has, not having a adblock and some other stuff is going to make their web searches poo poo.

also lol at people needing their internet dopamine hit.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

Zamujasa posted:



this is in addition to the problem where leaving youtube on autoplay will almost always end up routing you into some weird right wing conspiracy hole after long enough



Holy poo poo, yes. I'll go to sleep sometimes listening to a Best in Show cast panel or something like that and by the time I wake up it's got some Qanon poo poo locked and loaded.

Pekinduck
May 10, 2008
I swear google intentionally punishes people for using privacy settings. "Hmmmmm I can't seem to detect your menstrual cycle, please complete four captchas"

TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009

BiggerBoat posted:

Holy poo poo, yes. I'll go to sleep sometimes listening to a Best in Show cast panel or something like that and by the time I wake up it's got some Qanon poo poo locked and loaded.

I've had okay luck getting rid of this in a few ways. I'll preface this by saying i use/used youtube for music a lot, so my feed is absolutely cluttered with music, and it goes back to that if I listen to some stuff. So, quality of base material probably matter

a) you can prune troublesome videos from your watch history, and this is how you get rid of 'i watched 1 thing now my feed is full of it' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feed?history
b) there's a setting in youtube somewhere regarding recommendations. Last I checked, it had two parts: by videos watched, and by search. if you turn off the search part, then you cut down on a lot of noise. Its actually useful, because you can search for whatever, and it doesn't mess with your feed. (like, you can look up a cooking recipe or game review or a lets play, and not have that slid into your recommenations. Then, you can prune after watch if you want)
c) there's a few extensions/userscripts that are useful. There's a one-touch/thumbnail shortcut for 'not interested' thats real useful. If there's interest, I'll dig it up!

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

Flipperwaldt posted:

Isn't it a thing that a user uploaded content platform like YouTube can't be held responsible for the content on it as long as it's all automated and they do a best effort of reacting to complaints? I thought it was like that for copyright violations at least. I forget what the law or case was called where that was decided. Maybe having YouTube kids proactively curated/moderated by actual people opens them up to all sorts of liability. Like they couldn't just check if it was kid friendly, they'd have to actually check everything was on the up and up legally and properly cleared. Something like that. The required amount of effort would quickly get out of hand.

Idk, maybe this is just nonsense fabricated by my aching brain.

You might be thinking of the DMCA. They actually have a separate agreement with the entertainment industry where they get to just take things down (hence the "copyright strikes") and in return they don't cause a tremendous legal headache, but this agreement isn't a law.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?


Volmarias posted:

You might be thinking of the DMCA. They actually have a separate agreement with the entertainment industry where they get to just take things down (hence the "copyright strikes") and in return they don't cause a tremendous legal headache, but this agreement isn't a law.
I was thinking of Section 230, which is broader. DMCA is a law, that was easily googled.

Scanning through the Section 230 Wikipedia page doesn't really clear up for me if proactive, human moderation would make a platform liable for (illegal) content on it. The page does have a concise summary of Directive 2000/31/EC, the EU equivalent, that states that hosting providers are not responsible for the content they host as long as (1) the acts in question are neutral intermediary acts of a mere technical, automatic and passive capacity; (2) they are not informed of its illegal character, and (3) they act promptly to remove or disable access to the material when informed of it. To me that sounds like a manually whitelisted YouTube kids might be considered not passive, automatic or merely technical enough to remain covered by EU law. Otoh, is it a separate platform, or is it just a part of YouTube as a whole? Is it different from a YouTube endorsed playlist with recommendations? Etc. I don't know these things.

Anyway, mostly just happy that I was able to find the name of what I was thinking of. I just noticed this isn't really thread topic adjacent, so never mind.

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010
I lost the window I had this saved in:

Ya'll need Blockada.
It's adblock, for Android
https://blokada.org/
It creates a fake VPN and works like a pi-hole
You can either run a real VPN, or the Blockada VPN. You could also use a VPN provider that blocks ads. Your choice. You can't run Blockada and your usual mobile VPN.

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010

greazeball posted:

I teach college courses and when I ask, it's probably less than 10% of students run an adblocker. Most common reason why is "meh" followed by "it's too complicated/I'm too lazy to figure it out". I've also heard from a number of students that you always have to allow all the cookies and trackers or the websites won't work properly.

Like, wtf? Seriously? 10%?

Jesus Christ, that explains why I have to explain over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that every single Facebook and Instagram advertisement is an outright scam, or at best, a dropship company and you could buy it direct from China for like 1/10th the price.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


A few years back now but I was at my friend's house and her then three-year-old daughter was poking around watching toy slime videos on youtube (goofy voice: oh boy here's thomas the tank engine I hope no slime gets on him! etc) and then the voiceover on one of the videos started evangelizing to her about her lord and savior jesus christ. Think about how often parents put headphones on their kids for screen time.

I also was under the impression that things had been fixed since then.

Triskelli
Sep 26, 2011

I AM A SKELETON
WITH VERY HIGH
STANDARDS


Original_Z posted:

The kids videos always have super long ads too, like 30 minutes or so. I assume the algorithm noticed that the kids videos more often have full ad watches so they thrust the worst ones on it. Why the hell is there even a 30+ minute advertisement to begin with, like who the hell would watch that and why would companies even bother making and uploading them?

We should have seen this coming when Warner Brothers put up the entire Lego Movie as an ad to advertise the sequel.

Le Faye Morgaine
Feb 1, 2022
Sexuality academics are going to have a field day with future data from these latchkey youtube kids whose sexual preferences defy what we believe to be kinky. A generation of foot slime fetishists.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

I found out that Baby Einstein was a complete crock of poo poo lol

Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

🛑 Don't get your pen🖊️, son, you won't be 👌 needing that 😌. My 🥡 order's 💁 simple😉, a shitload 💩 of dim sims 🌯🀄. And I want a bucket 🪣 of soya sauce☕😋.

Zereth posted:

Absolutely not. Kris Straub did some horror stuff that had the word "kids" in the title so Youtube decided it belongs in Youtube Kids. EDIT: And he cant' tell them "no this isn't for kids", either, the system is not set up to handle the idea of false positives here.

poo poo, I very much stand corrected.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Le Faye Morgaine posted:

Sexuality academics are going to have a field day with future data from these latchkey youtube kids whose sexual preferences defy what we believe to be kinky. A generation of foot slime fetishists.

Imagine explaining our modern day sex brain worms to Freud.

ďZe patient iz fixated on ze maternal breasht, known as ďmotherís milkersĒ

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Le Faye Morgaine posted:

A generation of foot slime fetishists.

Thatíd be 90s Nickelodeon watching kids.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

:rip:

teen witch posted:

Imagine explaining our modern day sex brain worms to Freud.

ďZe patient iz fixated on ze maternal breasht, known as ďmotherís milkersĒ

"To the animus and the anima we must now add the anime, which stands for the blood..."

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

Absurd Alhazred posted:

"To the animus and the anima we must now add the anime, which stands for the blood..."

True, anime is blood.

The Pirate Captain
Jun 6, 2006

Avast ye lubbers, lest ye be scuppered!

Professor Shark posted:

I found out that Baby Einstein was a complete crock of poo poo lol

Baby Mozart too. Turns out, babies are kind of universally dumb.

bort
Mar 13, 2003

Absurd Alhazred posted:

"Postal reminder: in order to avoid your package being put on hold, please ad the delivery address in time. Clearly.not.a.usps.or.other.delivery.service.URL"

Gotta love those totally legitimate texts!
I found my carrier has a bot at 7626 (SPAM) which at least thanks me when I c/p the scam texts I get.

TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009

TheParadigm posted:


c) there's a few extensions/userscripts that are useful. There's a one-touch/thumbnail shortcut for 'not interested' thats real useful. If there's interest, I'll dig it up!

Here's the youtube scrips I've got. You'll need greasemonkey/tampermonkey, etc.
Not Interested in One Click
Clickbait buster

In minor conveniences, there's:
return youtube dislike
are you still here disabler

Layout improvements:
right side descrption/better watch page
polymer fixes



They work together, mostly, but its the first one that makes it real easy to remove crap from your feed: the go-away button is on the video thumbnail itself.

Clickbait buster's video preview gets an honorable mention because it lets you poke at the video and stuff before clicking, without leaving your video frame

TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 26, 2022

Nolgthorn
Jan 29, 2001

The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense
I'm sure after 182 pages someone has brought up the restaurant scam. They employ hot girls who pretend to be on vacation, in order to get you into their shop. This is a European thing more than anywhere. They target if you look single and travelling on your own. The idea being that you will buy them some drinks but the place nearby that they lead you to charges much much more than usual. The type of place where even a cappuccino costs the equivalent of 50 or 100 euros. If you don't ask to see the menu, it's totally legal and they pay bouncers essentially to escort you to an atm.

In this situation your only options are to pay, or get into a situation where you are roughed up and have to involve the police. Who will not be able to do anything because the prices on the menu reflect what you owe.

A lot of European countries have formed agencies who specialize in this exact scam. If you find yourself stuck in a booth with a bouncer type dood looming over you, you need to call your embassy, So keep that number on hand.

Nolgthorn fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Aug 27, 2022

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

The Pirate Captain posted:

Baby Mozart too. Turns out, babies are kind of universally dumb.

Also that lumosity brain training app thing.

I was part of the test group so they lost a lot of money since they couldn't make me less stupid.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Nolgthorn posted:

I'm sure after 182 pages someone has brought up the restaurant scam. They employ hot girls who pretend to be on vacation, in order to get you into their shop. This is a European thing more than anywhere. They target if you look single and travelling on your own. The idea being that you will buy them some drinks but the place nearby that they lead you to charges much much more than usual. The type of place where even a cappuccino costs the equivalent of 50 or 100 euros. If you don't ask to see the menu, it's totally legal and they pay bouncers essentially to escort you to an atm.

In this situation your only options are to pay, or get into a situation where you are roughed up and have to involve the police. Who will not be able to do anything because the prices on the menu reflect what you owe.

A lot of European countries have formed agencies who specialize in this exact scam. If you find yourself stuck in a booth with a bouncer type dood looming over you, you need to call your embassy, So keep that number on hand.
That's a classic Clip Joint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_joint

e: There's a strip club variant, where an interested mark is invited to spend time in a private room with one of the strippers. He goes to meet the stripper, she orders drinks (usually champagne, which is why the scam is known as the "champagne room") at some ridiculous markup ($50 or $100 a glass), leads the mark on, orders more drinks, and when the mark reaches out to touch the stripper, suddenly giant bouncers appear and escort the mark out (because the club rule is "no touching the dancers").

FMguru fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Aug 27, 2022

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PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
lol at horny dudes being dumb as gently caress and willing to pay.

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