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EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Grey market just means they're sourced from a cheaper country with no applicable warranty. No more, no less.

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monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013

EL BROMANCE posted:

Grey market just means they're sourced from a cheaper country with no applicable warranty. No more, no less.

Sure, keep dreaming buddy. One time I went into Best Buy to get a car stereo, and they had some with deep discounts. I asked why and the clerk said they were "last year's model." I said "uh huh, bet it fell off the truck too." Have to give her credit for the poker face though.

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH

drunk asian neighbor posted:

No I mean I kind of get what he was saying; the no-name pre-build computers are sourced from sketchy parts, but a) no-name pre-built computers kind of don't exist anymore now that you can buy an HP or Dell or whatever at Target or Walmart or Costco for under $300 and b) even expensive components like CPUs or whatnot, are almost always shipped in cheap plastic antistatic trays in mostly-unmarked cardboard boxes.

HP and Dell don't make anything anymore. I've been to the manufacturing facilities. I've seen an HP sitting next to a Dell that's next to a Compaq in same facility in Mexico. Don't get me wrong, it's really nice to be able to buy cheap desktops for the office, but it's all a grift.

For example, we used to buy laptops from a company whose parent company did huge amounts of business with Walmart. So they made a laptop just for Walmart that retailed for $300 (at the time that was about $100 under their manufacturing cost). Walmart couldn't get the thing to sell so we bought them up at $200 to sell on a TV shopping channel at $400. This was back when laptops were normally over a grand.

They were so bad we had a 100% return rate. They had a "W" SKU. Since then, I always look at SKUs to see if there's a "W" at the end. Companies actually make crappy products just for Walmart.

All electronics are a scam. These are commodity items that float around and around the industry. Sometimes you crack open a device and you find a competitors pcb inside. I've seen guys that hot glue lead sinkers into a camera body so it feels heavy and expensive.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


mostlygray posted:

HP and Dell don't make anything anymore. I've been to the manufacturing facilities. I've seen an HP sitting next to a Dell that's next to a Compaq in same facility in Mexico. Don't get me wrong, it's really nice to be able to buy cheap desktops for the office, but it's all a grift.

For example, we used to buy laptops from a company whose parent company did huge amounts of business with Walmart. So they made a laptop just for Walmart that retailed for $300 (at the time that was about $100 under their manufacturing cost). Walmart couldn't get the thing to sell so we bought them up at $200 to sell on a TV shopping channel at $400. This was back when laptops were normally over a grand.

They were so bad we had a 100% return rate. They had a "W" SKU. Since then, I always look at SKUs to see if there's a "W" at the end. Companies actually make crappy products just for Walmart.

All electronics are a scam. These are commodity items that float around and around the industry. Sometimes you crack open a device and you find a competitors pcb inside. I've seen guys that hot glue lead sinkers into a camera body so it feels heavy and expensive.

Not sure how you equate "a few companies use the same manufacturing facility because they make functionally identical products" with "these companies don't make anything anymore." Having a factory to produce your product doesn't count as making things?

I think you meant IC and not PCB. Yeah, sometimes you open a product and there's a TI chip where a Samsung chip should be, which doesn't matter because again, they are functionally identical components and are designed as such. Also you might think that 16-pin chip does something important but odds are much higher that it's a 10-cent resistor network and not an actual programmed IC so it doesn't matter which of the dozen companies producing that component are supplying it.

I'm also really unsure how you can extrapolate "all computers are a cheap scam" from your work story, because your work story makes your company seem dumb as hell. You're literally saying "Walmart, king of cheap poo poo, couldn't sell these lovely laptops at $300 so our company had the bright idea to try to sell them at $400! I'm not sure why they didn't sell..."

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS
Plus, I don't think Compaq has been a thing in nearly 15 years.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

where are all these stolen chips and parts coming from anyway. the only people buying big orders of computer components are manufacturers. it makes zero sense that "all" the orders that go to manufacturers are then stolen and sold back to the same manufacturers. it makes even less sense when you consider that many components have serial numbers

honestly i don't understand why someone would waltz into the thread full of people who enjoy learning about scams, and spin a tale that's barely above "my uncle works for Nintendo". especially on a forum chock full of computer nerds and people who work in high tech

Redrum and Coke
Feb 25, 2006

wAstIng 10 bUcks ON an aVaTar iS StUpid

Lutha Mahtin posted:

where are all these stolen chips and parts coming from anyway. the only people buying big orders of computer components are manufacturers. it makes zero sense that "all" the orders that go to manufacturers are then stolen and sold back to the same manufacturers. it makes even less sense when you consider that many components have serial numbers

honestly i don't understand why someone would waltz into the thread full of people who enjoy learning about scams, and spin a tale that's barely above "my uncle works for Nintendo". especially on a forum chock full of computer nerds and people who work in high tech

I think people develop their own pet theories, don't question them, and over time take them as factually correct, despite any evidence to prove them.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


I mean "the factory making this brand-name thing is selling the QC rejects to another company after hours" is definitely a thing that happens a lot but we're talking electronic components with micro- and nano-scale precision manufacturing, not handbags with a misaligned seam or whatever. You can't just release a batch of factory-second CPUs into the wild because they flat-out won't work

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Lutha Mahtin posted:

where are all these stolen chips and parts coming from anyway?

Frank Costello I think.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


BiggerBoat posted:

Frank Costello I think.

micro





processors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xPaUKLkqmQ

CannonFodder
Jan 26, 2001

Passion’s Wrench

BiggerBoat posted:

Frank Costello I think.
I read this as Frank Costanza at first and went "yeah, I bet he would end up in a scheme like that. Or maybe Uncle Leo."

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Same, thought about when George was selling computers out of the garage for him.

TyroneGoldstein
Mar 30, 2005

mostlygray posted:

All electronics are a scam. These are commodity items that float around and around the industry. Sometimes you crack open a device and you find a competitors pcb inside. I've seen guys that hot glue lead sinkers into a camera body so it feels heavy and expensive.

Not all, and the cross pollination with things like power board PCB's just makes good sense. There's only like 6 firms in the world that produce say...capacitors that go into everything you own. My Sony TV, which I had to replace the caps on due to plague had a Samsung sourced power board. The only thing that was definitely, without a shadow of a doubt from Sony was the tuner board, really the brain of the television that has their engine chip on it. Speaking of LCD panels...again, there's only like 5 or 6 companies on the planet that actually produce sheets of liquid crystal displays that go into every OEM's product. I wouldn't call this stuff scammy only because in the end your television and it's remote control...and your gaming console...and your phone...and your coffee maker...are comprised of very basic electronic components in complex arrangements that are functionally interchangeable. A cap is a cap is a cap is a cap...A resistor is a resistor is a resistor is a resistor... All you can hope is that the company actually making those basic components knows what the F they're doing and are willing to have quality control.

Optics for lens systems are another good one that you can guarantee are made well. Making camera glass is expensive and even putting all the parts together into a single lens still requires skilled human labor (for the most part). This is why a single lens is usually several hundred dollars depending on max speed.

Speaking of Scams...I don't know if anyone has brought it up...but basically any herbal supplement ever created and sold in this country. The thing of the moment I hear now while I'm listening to sports talk radio is the old canard that your digestive system is secretly harboring enough built up sludge and toxic waste to 'make you fat.' That last part is what got me to perk up recently. It opened with "You may not be fat, you must have built up waste inside your digestive system.." I did a double take because I still don't understand how the FCC or the FDA hasn't stepped in to regulate this garbage.

TyroneGoldstein fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jun 29, 2016

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug
They don't because freedom.

Well actually there are snippets of some of the worst cases being smacked. There isn't a ton they can do because of some odd laws or lack thereof if memory serves. Health food is full of bullshit because all you need is "an expert" to say something is healthy. This leads to stupid things like breakfast cereals claiming they'll improve your kid's grades in school.

But anyway read about pom some time. The fda smacked them in the head because it got so bad they were basically claiming that pomegranate juice cured cancer. The fda was like knock that poo poo right the gently caress off. You can get around that by being vague and making nonspecific claims apparently.

I'm not a lawyer and don't know the law all that well but it's a line drawing thing. You say "the line is here" and you get scummy companies trying to find ways to sneak over it.

Imaduck
Apr 16, 2007

the magnetorotational instability turns me on
If you keep your health claims nonspecific, you can say pretty much whatever you want. This is why so many herbal products will claim to "boost your immune system" or "improve brain functionality." These statements are so vague and medically meaningless that they can't really be evaluated, so they get past the FDA / FTC.

That being said, companies often go too far. Airborne got fined for $23M for claiming megadoses of vitamin C treat and cure the common cold, in spite of that being a long-debunked myth. Of course, Airborne is still in business, and now they just advertise they provide "immune support," and hope you'll ignore the disclaimer printed on every box of their product

Airborne posted:

* THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE OR PREVENT DISEASE.
But hey, if they make their statements vague enough and you draw the wrong conclusions, how is that their problem? Right?

Also, the production of herbal / dietary supplements in the US is largely unregulated, and most supplements you buy in stores don't actually contain the product on the label, and the dosages are pretty much never accurate.

Imaduck fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jun 29, 2016

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug
It also doesn't help that there is an obscene amount of misinformation out there are people that think whatever the fda says is wrong. They look at "the fda doesn't support our claims" as proof that it is a magical cure they don't want you to know about.

It's awful because this crap literally kills people. Then they just say "well they just used it wrong." Well no the problem is that antioxidants are not magical cure alls.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


ToxicSlurpee posted:

It also doesn't help that there is an obscene amount of misinformation out there are people that think whatever the fda says is wrong. They look at "the fda doesn't support our claims" as proof that it is a magical cure they don't want you to know about.

It's awful because this crap literally kills people. Then they just say "well they just used it wrong." Well no the problem is that antioxidants are not magical cure alls.

On the other side of the coin, FDA fuckery also means that a lot of things that may be legitimately beneficial go ignored for various reasons. The classic example is :420:, which despite being scientifically proven a billion times as having multiple significant lines of research re: medicinal properties, is still categorized as a Schedule I drug, meaning the government's official stance on it is "no medical uses at all and no allowances for medical study," which results in poo poo like Marinol and Sativex (used to treat motion sickness, seizures and many symptoms of degenerative neuronal diseases) being readily available in almost every country in the world except the US.

Another example is 5-HTP. It's a chemical precursor to serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter that the most common antidepressants indirectly act on. You can get it on Amazon or at GNC or Walgreens or wherever, and in my personal experience it's a godsend. Several years of expensive, zombifying SSRIs, and 5-HTP treats my depression significantly better, without turning me into an emotional cripple. I know several people with similar experiences, but you better believe it's got that wonderful THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE OR PREVENT DISEASE. labels on the bottle.

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH

drunk asian neighbor posted:

Not sure how you equate "a few companies use the same manufacturing facility because they make functionally identical products" with "these companies don't make anything anymore." Having a factory to produce your product doesn't count as making things?

I think you meant IC and not PCB. Yeah, sometimes you open a product and there's a TI chip where a Samsung chip should be, which doesn't matter because again, they are functionally identical components and are designed as such. Also you might think that 16-pin chip does something important but odds are much higher that it's a 10-cent resistor network and not an actual programmed IC so it doesn't matter which of the dozen companies producing that component are supplying it.

I'm also really unsure how you can extrapolate "all computers are a cheap scam" from your work story, because your work story makes your company seem dumb as hell. You're literally saying "Walmart, king of cheap poo poo, couldn't sell these lovely laptops at $300 so our company had the bright idea to try to sell them at $400! I'm not sure why they didn't sell..."

I'm very sure why the W sku'd laptops didn't sell. It was a stupid idea. Wasn't mine, I take no ownership and I fought it kicking and screaming. The point is: "Nothing is made by who you think it is, for who you think it is."

Enjoy your Quanta laptop, or Compal, or Alpha Top, or Sceptre, or ECS product. If it sounds like I don't know the industry, I apologize. No-one makes anything anymore. This is the point. ICs are made by the big names, but the end user product is shoveled together garbage. It works pretty well, I love my ASRock mainboard on my computer, but nothing is as it seems.

I once had some assholes sell me grey market Windows Product keys that were marked for a different manufacturer that was only pseudo-connected to them. I had a TV manufacturer ship empty TVs (chassis only, no guts) to our clients via drop-ship because they were having trouble importing TV tuners. Oops! This TV that normally weighs 50 lbs weighs 10lbs. No worries. I'm sure it's fine.

I had a company tell me that they couldn't ship out of Hong Kong due to a warehouse fire that burned the whole place down. I called a different company that used the same warehouse (3PL). All was well.

Every year, we always had to deal with the RAM cartel meeting in the fall where all the manufacturers would double the price of RAM for a few months and then back down. It's all a scam. Life is terrible. There's no hope for mankind. There's always an earthquake, typhoon, or warehouse fire. None of it is real.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


mostlygray posted:

I'm very sure why the W sku'd laptops didn't sell. It was a stupid idea. Wasn't mine, I take no ownership and I fought it kicking and screaming. The point is: "Nothing is made by who you think it is, for who you think it is."

Enjoy your Quanta laptop, or Compal, or Alpha Top, or Sceptre, or ECS product. If it sounds like I don't know the industry, I apologize. No-one makes anything anymore. This is the point. ICs are made by the big names, but the end user product is shoveled together garbage. It works pretty well, I love my ASRock mainboard on my computer, but nothing is as it seems.

I once had some assholes sell me grey market Windows Product keys that were marked for a different manufacturer that was only pseudo-connected to them. I had a TV manufacturer ship empty TVs (chassis only, no guts) to our clients via drop-ship because they were having trouble importing TV tuners. Oops! This TV that normally weighs 50 lbs weighs 10lbs. No worries. I'm sure it's fine.

I had a company tell me that they couldn't ship out of Hong Kong due to a warehouse fire that burned the whole place down. I called a different company that used the same warehouse (3PL). All was well.

Every year, we always had to deal with the RAM cartel meeting in the fall where all the manufacturers would double the price of RAM for a few months and then back down. It's all a scam. Life is terrible. There's no hope for mankind. There's always an earthquake, typhoon, or warehouse fire. None of it is real.

So you admit that the Walmart laptop thing was just a story about someone in your company making an idiotic decision, and not actually providing any evidence towards your argument.

Sorry you keep dealing with lovely companies but you're still wrong and "no one makes anything anymore" is inherently a stupid statement. "This company sold me bad Windows keys" or "this company hosed up and shipped empty TV boxes" has absolutely nothing to do with the argument you're trying to make. Those are bad companies making either intentional or unintentional mistakes, and has zero to do with "oh companies don't make anything anymore." "This supplier told us their warehouse burned down" isn't a sign of some weird global manufacturing conspiracy, it's a sign that either your supplier thinks you're a loving moron, or they don't care enough about your business to make an effort to keep you as a customer.

Not sure where you're going with naming off those companies. Sceptre is an American brand that is known for making low-end TVs and CRT monitors, they barely touch actual systems. ECS is one of the largest motherboard manufacturers in the world. Alphatop is owned by ECS. Quanta makes laptops for virtually all the biggest tech companies in the world, same with Compal.

Are you trying to say that because IBM uses ECS motherboards in their systems, that's some sort of scam or bad business practice? Or that since multiple companies use the same few manufacturers and designers, that this is some sort of scam? I'm really not getting your point here. Do you expect every single company in the world to discretely manufacture the entirety of their product lines? Do you have any idea how inefficient and problematic that would be?

Try to imagine applying this logic to literally any other field in the world. Supermarkets across the US all buy their frozen peas from the same 3 companies. Do you expect every supermarket in the country to individually source their own frozen peas?

It's not that nobody makes anything anymore, it's that there are usually a relatively small number of companies who are really good at 1 specific thing, and so they can reasonably supply multiple other companies who are trying to offer a wide range of product. I'm not sure why you think the fact that a Motorola phone is actually made by Lenovo, and the guts are almost identical to those of a Samsung or LG phone, is some kind of conspiracy, because that sort of thing is pretty common knowledge.

Also the last part of your post makes me think you should probably seek therapy because you went from an argument about laptop manufacturers to a rant about how the whole world is terrible and hosed :yikes:

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


I mean this is basic loving knowledge on the computer parts end. Even the average consumer who knows nothing about computers understands even the basic idea behind it, otherwise the BBB would be flooded with people like you complaining about why the fancy Dell they paid $1800 for at Microcenter has the same Intel Core i7 sticker on the front as the computer on sale at Walmart for $600. Anybody who's built their own computer understands that there are only a few companies worth a poo poo that make hard drives, or that there are only 2 companies making graphics cards anymore and all the resellers like Sapphire or EVGA are just competing on heatsinks and fancy housings.

How old are you, if you don't mind my asking? If you told me you were 60+ I'd probably have less of an issue with your line of reasoning, since all of the few other people I've ever heard make this sort of argument are people who hit adulthood years before consumer home electronics became a common thing.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013

BUT WHAT ABOUT BIDENS AGE?
If you experience a new candidate 4 months prior to ELECTION contact a doctor at once...
I'll combine scams and schadenfreude into this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3617857/Woman-half-nose-cut-herbal-remedy-used-skin-cancer-ROTTED-face.html NOT WORK/MIND SAFE

The end result of "The internet knows better than the FDA"

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Pook Good Mook posted:

I'll combine scams and schadenfreude into this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3617857/Woman-half-nose-cut-herbal-remedy-used-skin-cancer-ROTTED-face.html NOT WORK/MIND SAFE

The end result of "The internet knows better than the FDA"

I wouldn't recommend using herbal remedies for anything, let alone cancer, but you shouldn't believe anything you read in the daily mail unless you've seen it confirmed by a reputable source.

TyroneGoldstein
Mar 30, 2005

Pook Good Mook posted:

I'll combine scams and schadenfreude into this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3617857/Woman-half-nose-cut-herbal-remedy-used-skin-cancer-ROTTED-face.html NOT WORK/MIND SAFE

The end result of "The internet knows better than the FDA"

I saw something like this a while back and I cannot comprehend that someone would actually willingly smear outright caustic poo poo onto their face. Like that is just mind bending to me. The stupid electrolytic 'detoxifier' foot things that foul the water that you're feet are in...sure...that's got bubbles and a seeming chemical reaction that does not burn away skin in the process...but that black salve...I mean drat, check this:

quote:

Common ingredients of black salves include zinc chloride, chaparral (also known as creosote bush (Latin name Larrea tridentata),[10] and often bloodroot, a plant frequently used in herbal medicine.[11] The extract of bloodroot is called sanguinarine, an ammonium salt which attacks and destroys living tissue and is also classified as an escharotic.

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012

Just me and my 🌊dragon🐉 hanging out

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

I wouldn't recommend using herbal remedies for anything, let alone cancer, but you shouldn't believe anything you read in the daily mail unless you've seen it confirmed by a reputable source.

Would the Medical Journal of Australia be reputable enough for you? Quoted :nms: here :nms: ; the article itself is behind a paywall.

Here's a non-paywalled :nms: piece :nms: from Archives of Dermatology.

AlbieQuirky fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 29, 2016

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?
When diagnosed with incurable cancer I kinda get it. I mean, what do you have to lose? But who gets diagnosed with an easily cured cancer and then does this poo poo to themselves instead of getting the safe, sane treatment?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

If you're going to scam someone, why would you choose literally melting chunks of them off instead of sugar pills or coloured water or something? Seems like it would be a harder sell.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013

BUT WHAT ABOUT BIDENS AGE?
If you experience a new candidate 4 months prior to ELECTION contact a doctor at once...
The worst part is you can find he testimonial online and she loving blames herself. She says she must have not been using it correctly.

BrownieMinusEye
Apr 22, 2008

Oven Wrangler

Masonity posted:

When diagnosed with incurable cancer I kinda get it. I mean, what do you have to lose? But who gets diagnosed with an easily cured cancer and then does this poo poo to themselves instead of getting the safe, sane treatment?

Steve Jobs

seacat
Dec 9, 2006

Imaduck posted:

If you keep your health claims nonspecific, you can say pretty much whatever you want. This is why so many herbal products will claim to "boost your immune system" or "improve brain functionality." These statements are so vague and medically meaningless that they can't really be evaluated, so they get past the FDA / FTC.

That being said, companies often go too far. Airborne got fined for $23M for claiming megadoses of vitamin C treat and cure the common cold, in spite of that being a long-debunked myth. Of course, Airborne is still in business, and now they just advertise they provide "immune support," and hope you'll ignore the disclaimer printed on every box of their product

But hey, if they make their statements vague enough and you draw the wrong conclusions, how is that their problem? Right?

Also, the production of herbal / dietary supplements in the US is largely unregulated, and most supplements you buy in stores don't actually contain the product on the label, and the dosages are pretty much never accurate.

Everyone who's commented ITT is pretty much on the money but there is light at the end of the tunnel because the US FDA is starting to get more strict about "supplement" label claims/requirements. A year and a half ago I used to work quality control for a contract manufacturer who made dietary supplements, drinks and the like and at the last FDA audit they actually starting to question why we were not testing certain things enough. I can't get too specific but the amount of times we would have to make something and the label came out to be just plain wrong (i.e. claimed 50 mg of niacin per serving on the label, but the formula the compounders weighed it out by only had half that amount).

Or not as bad, the formula was right but the ingredient deteriorated (folic acid, the methyl- form of Vitamin B12 and vitamin C are really bad about this) by the time it got to me to be tested we'd already filled 10,000 bottles and omg they just shipped them anyway.

One other sneaky thing shady manufacturers do is label stuff as a food instead of a drug or supplement because food has far less stringent testing requirements. E.g. if there's a "Nutrition Facts" panel instead of a "Supplement Facts" panel they don't have to do nearly as much testing in quality (in fact, a little known fact is that for processed foods they just plug the ingredients into a formula to generate how many carbs, fat grams, etc are the final product). They are really stringent about microbiological testing on pretty much everything though (which is why Blue Bell got into serious poo poo over their listeria outbreak).

I work in pharmaceuticals now. As much as I agree with the poster below regarding overregulation for things like 5-HTP, not to mention new drug/medical device approval wait times (90 days to 6 months just to market a comparable device to something that already exists!), I'm still fairly glad for their existence because otherwise this shady poo poo would be even more prevalent... and we got bitchslapped at our last FDA audit (mainly not my division but two of my bosses lost their jobs over it).

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH

drunk asian neighbor posted:

So you admit that the Walmart laptop thing was just a story about someone in your company making an idiotic decision, and not actually providing any evidence towards your argument.

Sorry you keep dealing with lovely companies but you're still wrong and "no one makes anything anymore" is inherently a stupid statement. "This company sold me bad Windows keys" or "this company hosed up and shipped empty TV boxes" has absolutely nothing to do with the argument you're trying to make. Those are bad companies making either intentional or unintentional mistakes, and has zero to do with "oh companies don't make anything anymore." "This supplier told us their warehouse burned down" isn't a sign of some weird global manufacturing conspiracy, it's a sign that either your supplier thinks you're a loving moron, or they don't care enough about your business to make an effort to keep you as a customer.

Not sure where you're going with naming off those companies. Sceptre is an American brand that is known for making low-end TVs and CRT monitors, they barely touch actual systems. ECS is one of the largest motherboard manufacturers in the world. Alphatop is owned by ECS. Quanta makes laptops for virtually all the biggest tech companies in the world, same with Compal.

Are you trying to say that because IBM uses ECS motherboards in their systems, that's some sort of scam or bad business practice? Or that since multiple companies use the same few manufacturers and designers, that this is some sort of scam? I'm really not getting your point here. Do you expect every single company in the world to discretely manufacture the entirety of their product lines? Do you have any idea how inefficient and problematic that would be?

Try to imagine applying this logic to literally any other field in the world. Supermarkets across the US all buy their frozen peas from the same 3 companies. Do you expect every supermarket in the country to individually source their own frozen peas?

It's not that nobody makes anything anymore, it's that there are usually a relatively small number of companies who are really good at 1 specific thing, and so they can reasonably supply multiple other companies who are trying to offer a wide range of product. I'm not sure why you think the fact that a Motorola phone is actually made by Lenovo, and the guts are almost identical to those of a Samsung or LG phone, is some kind of conspiracy, because that sort of thing is pretty common knowledge.

Also the last part of your post makes me think you should probably seek therapy because you went from an argument about laptop manufacturers to a rant about how the whole world is terrible and hosed :yikes:

Point being, you agree with me. You clearly do understand, and have in-depth insight, as to how the consumer electronics world works and I commend you for it. Most other people though, don't get that nothing that you see is reality. My point is simple: Nothing is as it seems in the electronics industry. This is about scams and cons. I've got no beef with IBM using ECS parts. Frankly, they make awesome boards and I've been using them myself since the early 2000's. They just are not ever clear as to component origin.

My mother thinks that if she buys a Motorola phone, some person in the States is making it. People think that Steve Jobs makes iPhones from beyond the grave. My wife bought a laptop that, I poo poo you not, was branded Bang and Olufson. It's theoretically an HP product (though it's not labeled as such externally), but it has really lovely speakers and I bet, if I cracked the case, it would clearly be a re-branded pile of poo poo with a "W" SKU :-)

That Bang and Olufson laptop has the worst speakers of any laptop, but hey! They're a name right? Thus, the con/scam.

I shall now retire for the evening. I worked in that industry for a decade and hated it so... Once, though, I loved it. I wish I was back in the poo poo... It was magical. Now, all I have are memories of absurd inside deals and missed attempts to get free poo poo from reps.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

im pretty sure nobody that has responded to you ITT agrees with you

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK

mostlygray posted:

I shall now retire for the evening. I worked in that industry for a decade and hated it so... Once, though, I loved it. I wish I was back in the poo poo... It was magical. Now, all I have are memories of absurd inside deals and missed attempts to get free poo poo from reps.

B-but you've only just begun to school us! Don't take your bat and ball and go home yet! :allears:

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012

Just me and my 🌊dragon🐉 hanging out

The Lone Badger posted:

If you're going to scam someone, why would you choose literally melting chunks of them off instead of sugar pills or coloured water or something? Seems like it would be a harder sell.

The tingle means it's working!

I think the people who sell and promote that poo poo really believe in it, because it was a common treatment in the 19th century and earlier. Of course people treated syphilis with mercury and kept people with cholera from drinking water back then, too, but hey.

There's a really good book called Marketplace of the Marvelous that discusses why so much quackery was so popular in the 19th century (spoiler: actual medicine was pretty crap, and sometimes doing nothing or even doing basic things like giving people water to drink was better than the mainstream treatments available) and why it's still popular today (Dunning-Kruger effect, magical thinking, poor understanding of science, statistics, and risk analysis).

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


mostlygray posted:

Point being, you agree with me. You clearly do understand, and have in-depth insight, as to how the consumer electronics world works and I commend you for it. Most other people though, don't get that nothing that you see is reality. My point is simple: Nothing is as it seems in the electronics industry. This is about scams and cons. I've got no beef with IBM using ECS parts. Frankly, they make awesome boards and I've been using them myself since the early 2000's. They just are not ever clear as to component origin.

My mother thinks that if she buys a Motorola phone, some person in the States is making it. People think that Steve Jobs makes iPhones from beyond the grave. My wife bought a laptop that, I poo poo you not, was branded Bang and Olufson. It's theoretically an HP product (though it's not labeled as such externally), but it has really lovely speakers and I bet, if I cracked the case, it would clearly be a re-branded pile of poo poo with a "W" SKU :-)

That Bang and Olufson laptop has the worst speakers of any laptop, but hey! They're a name right? Thus, the con/scam.

I shall now retire for the evening. I worked in that industry for a decade and hated it so... Once, though, I loved it. I wish I was back in the poo poo... It was magical. Now, all I have are memories of absurd inside deals and missed attempts to get free poo poo from reps.

:psyduck: holy poo poo dude you are Grade A crazy/stupid

there's no loving such thing as a B&O laptop, it's an HP laptop with B&O speakers. It's 100% branded as an HP laptop, there's no "theoretically" about it. Similar to my "sorry your company made dumb decisions," sorry your wife made a dumb decision when buying a laptop (but :lol: if you thought having a fancy name associated with it = not lovely laptop speakers).

You are literally the crazy old man who thinks everything is a conspiracy or a scam. I never thought I'd meet one in real life.

I think your mother is the least crazy out of you, her and your wife because at least she's partially correct - Motorola was for a brief period assembling their phones in the USA, mostly so they could tout "ASSEMBLED IN THE USA" as a selling point. I know in your weirdo head that's a con or a scam, but it's really just marketing. It's not Motorola's fault Americans are morons that are somehow convinced a made in the USA product is superior to foreign-made.

I really wish I could just stop responding since you're pretty obviously an old man who is totally convinced they know better than everyone, but I firmly believe you're not trolling and actually believe the jumbled train wreck of thoughts you're posting. Like a real trainwreck, I can't stay away.

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005

AlbieQuirky posted:

The tingle means it's working!

I think the people who sell and promote that poo poo really believe in it, because it was a common treatment in the 19th century and earlier. Of course people treated syphilis with mercury and kept people with cholera from drinking water back then, too, but hey.

There's a really good book called Marketplace of the Marvelous that discusses why so much quackery was so popular in the 19th century (spoiler: actual medicine was pretty crap, and sometimes doing nothing or even doing basic things like giving people water to drink was better than the mainstream treatments available) and why it's still popular today (Dunning-Kruger effect, magical thinking, poor understanding of science, statistics, and risk analysis).

Last I heard mercury treatment actually worked and side effects were usually less severe than neurosyphilis, but less effective or safe than modern treatments.

Captain Bravo
Feb 16, 2011

An Emergency Shitpost
has been deployed...

...but experts warn it is
just a drop in the ocean.

drunk asian neighbor posted:

You are literally the crazy old man who thinks everything is a conspiracy or a scam. I never thought I'd meet one in real life.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

drunk asian neighbor posted:

I think your mother is the least crazy out of you, her and your wife because at least she's partially correct - Motorola was for a brief period assembling their phones in the USA, mostly so they could tout "ASSEMBLED IN THE USA" as a selling point. I know in your weirdo head that's a con or a scam, but it's really just marketing. It's not Motorola's fault Americans are morons that are somehow convinced a made in the USA product is superior to foreign-made.

See also: Shinola watches



The have/had a 10 minute long video on their site for a while showing all of the American staff they have hired. From what I remember, they are trained to just do the assembly of the watch, everything else is done in China or Europe.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Professor Shark posted:

See also: Shinola watches


Well, I know them from poo poo anyway.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

BiggerBoat posted:

Well, I know them from poo poo anyway.

gently caress you, I wanted to make that joke! :v:

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Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


I mean I've seen a couple of examples of what could be construed as mislabelling/misdirection but in both cases it was done specifically to make the product nice and legally compliant:

The Middle East is notoriously anti-Chinese products. I've seen 6-figure deals go to poo poo because of this. As a result, I've seen simple electronics (fluorescent light ballasts to be specific) where the PCBs are made in China, then shipped to Mexico, where they are "assembled," AKA they screw the PCB into a snap-in aluminum housing. This allows them to slap a big ol' ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO sticker on the ballast and sell to the Middle East market no problem. Crack open the housing and the board has CHINA stamped on it.

Same goes for stuff from Israel. Most of these countries (UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc.) have flat-out blanket bans on importing Israeli products, but seeing as how companies like Intel and Motorola have significant production and r&d facilities in Israel, you better believe there's some sort of assembly-location fuckery to get around that.

Neither case is malicious, as the average Mo Shmoe in Kuwait doesn't give a poo poo if the processor in his laptop came from Israel or not, and while the company financing a construction project might be super anti-Chinese products, the actual construction people know that they can get Chinese poo poo that is just as good or better than stuff from the USA or wherever. And it certainly isn't some sort of sneaky scam to shave money off a sale or whatever, since this sort of thing requires a lot more logistic work that ends up increasing cost significantly; you're just adding another step and a totally different location to the production process, with all the bullshit that brings.

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